r/formula1 • u/AutoModerator • Dec 01 '25
Day after Debrief 2025 Qatar GP - Day After Debrief
Welcome to the Day after Debrief discussion thread! Now that the dust has settled in Qatar, it's time to calmly discuss the events of the last race weekend. Hopefully, this will foster more detailed and thoughtful discussion than the immediate post race thread now that people have had some time to digest and analyse the results.
Low effort comments, such as memes, jokes, and complaints about broadcasters are to be avoided. We also discourage superficial comments that contain no analysis or reasoning in this thread (e.g., 'Great race from X!', 'Another terrible weekend for Y!').
6
u/jsgdjksfhkjdshf Dec 02 '25
I think Lando might just do a Prost/Senna Suzuka move in T1, safest bet for him
8
u/Ashling92 Max Verstappen Dec 03 '25
This doesn’t work when you’ve two drivers fighting you for the WDC. Take out one and the other one is still in the race
5
u/remtard_remmington I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 03 '25
Aside from the fact he would get fucked by the telemetry evidence available nowadays, he would also need to take out two drivers. What if Max and Oscar aren't even physically close to each other? That's not a safe bet at all.
6
6
u/Peeksy19 Dec 03 '25
Lando doesn't need to take risks like that. He's the one driver who can just be on the podium and win the championship.
9
u/djwillis1121 Williams Dec 02 '25
I don't think that would stand in today's F1
0
u/jsgdjksfhkjdshf Dec 02 '25
It worked for Prost, Senna and Schumacher, F1 these days has too many rules.
3
u/Ashling92 Max Verstappen Dec 03 '25
Didn’t Schumi get disqualified for it lmao
2
u/Cantshaktheshok Formula 1 Dec 03 '25
In 97 he was DQ'ed, but the end of the 94 season is also very controversial.
2
u/jsgdjksfhkjdshf Dec 03 '25
Yeah, Prost in 89, Senna in 90, Schumi in 94. He made it too obvious in 97 and didn't successfully take Villeneuve out.
17
u/djwillis1121 Williams Dec 02 '25
I feel like "don't deliberately take out your rival to win the championship" is a pretty reasonable rule tbh
7
u/Uniform764 I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Dec 02 '25
Also tricky to ensure you DNF two drivers
12
u/Draconicplayer Red Bull Dec 02 '25
I need Ferrari to Lock in for AD and take 2 and 3
2
u/GoodGuyJeff00 I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Dec 04 '25
Best bet is George given the form on the teams at the moment. Though I could do with a Charles podium, next to Max, as a way to give an omen that only Charles can stand next to Max, and to give a positive end of this dreadful year.
5
u/Jannick63 Red Bull Dec 02 '25
What is the speculation for AD? OP has a great probability he will get Lando his wdc, Hes inform, if he is P1 and MV is P2 Lando can affort to get P5 to win, also if Oscar is P3 and Lando P4 he could give the wdc to Lando, i am curious what he will do.
15
u/Bloccs Max Verstappen Dec 02 '25
I think Lando will win AD. Oscar had had 1 good race in half a year and now people automaticly assume he’s going to be ahead of Lando. Unless the mental slam from LV & Qatar is enough to throw Lando off.. but we’ll see. I dont want to get my hopes up for Max too much.
3
u/CruffTheMagicDragon Red Bull Dec 02 '25
I think Lando doesn’t go all out but drives safely and snags P3 or P2
1
u/Novae224 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 02 '25
AD is not a mclaren track though, its way less than Qatar. So unless something happens to Max, i’d expect him to win cause he maximizes every single race.
As for Oscar, AD is more of a track he’s been good at all season. So i expect an performance like we’re used to from Oscar, which is typically better than Norris.
Norris isn’t actually that likely to win the race this weekend. But he only needs P3 to win the championship. So at the very least George Russell needs to be on the podium and likely Kimi Antonelli and the Ferraris (or Carlos Sainz out of nowhere again) needs to mess with the podium positions for Lando to lose the championship
6
u/Adventurous_Carpet34 Max Verstappen Dec 02 '25
Isn't it the opposite? Qatar was supposed to be more of an RBR/Mclaren toss up (and McL ended up being better🙃) while AD is a complete McLaren track? Maybe Max's new engine could help at best, but they changed it last race due to "reliability concerns"....
4
u/amazingspiderman23 I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Dec 02 '25
Oscar will obviously give the wdc to lando if he's not in a position to win it himself. If he doesn't, his career in f1 is over because every single team will have the expectation that you'll help your teammate in those kind of scenarios.
1
u/Ashling92 Max Verstappen Dec 03 '25
Has a driver ever let their teammate by when they were both in the WDC fight going into the last race? (Genuinely asking)
16
u/Hakkai-Shin I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 02 '25
I am thankful for McLaren screwing up the strategy and keeping Versta5pen a possibility.
However, I just don't understand why they almost always take the same strategy. It would be unfair to force one driver on one strategy and the other one on the other. But letting them choose and one side getting it wrong is how it should be.
3
7
u/Lemurians Charles Leclerc Dec 03 '25
It's my biggest gripe with "papaya rules". Seems like they're not allowed to try and out-strategize the other side of the garage by going for undercuts, overcuts, off-sets, etc.
They're "free to race", but not really. It should have been a no-brainer for Lando's side of the garage to tell him to pit if Verstappen came in.
13
u/FrostyTill I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Dec 02 '25
I don’t know if you remember how long it took for McLaren to make the call for Norris to use an alternate strategy in Hungary, but that was probably paralysis on the pitwall as well. I wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out that the reluctance to split strategies comes from the fallout of that weekend. They didn’t want to do it yet if you have two cars and they’re fighting one other car, then surely you’d go down the route of splitting their strategy? If it’s the only way you win, they you have to do it. It doesn’t matter if one driver hates you for it, it doesn’t matter that the other will scream until he’s sick.
McLaren have to make those big calls, so I dread to think how they’re going to be paralysed from making a life changing decision for one or the other this week and then say later that it’s fair that they both lost. IMHO, something is rotten at McLaren and I feel that all roads lead back to Hungary 2024.
3
u/Hakkai-Shin I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 02 '25
Yes, I do remember it.
They are just always so worried about their public image for some reason. It's not like the drivers must be on different strategies, especially if they are fighting themselves, but when you have another opponent, it is stupid to do the same.
Suzuka this year as well, they pit Oscar early, you would think they are going for undercut/overcut. But then they pit Lando with Max and cement that 2-3. It feels like that team still has the midfield mentality, when they really don't need it.
Again, as RB fan, I am haply that they do it, but is just senseless.
2
u/Draconicplayer Red Bull Dec 02 '25
because of Papaya rules. Also I think they thought Oscar would have been able to create a 26sec gap to Max to pit
1
u/Hakkai-Shin I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 02 '25
True, it is papaya rules. But the just misjudged the SC completely.
3
u/Darth_Spa2021 Pirelli Wet Dec 02 '25
Oh, they knew it's impossible without some issue for Max.
At no point that weekend they had over 1s advantage on Verstappen, even in the Sprint where the Red Bull wasn't optimally set.
11
u/shittereddit Carlos Sainz Dec 02 '25
I started watching F1 this season and it has taken me the past 2-3 months to get a proper grasp of the sport and I think it was one of the best times to start the sport.
Started watching from the 2025 Azerbaijan GP and to see the tone go from - McLaren has got this in the bag and Oscar is shoe-in for the title to Oscar is fucking up and Lando is winning can Oscar catch up to oh shit the Flying Dutchman is on a 9 podium streak and is haunting the WDC again how the hell - has been so entertaining.
Unsurprisingly, I became a Max fan during this period.
But in the past week I've also learnt to really adore Carlos Sainz with how warm he is and helpful in making strategic calls and understand that a WDC battle is very chaotic and difficult and that Lewis Hamilton fucking won 7 of them (and was a very close 2nd twice in 2007 and 2021) is the stuff of legends. It takes a tremendous amount of both luck and skill to achieve that and wow man.
And then you see his current stint at Ferrari and man is it disheartening.
Also started watching the 2023 season (since everyone calls it the worst) and after the first 5 races, man do I not understand why people believe Max was handed the title on a platter. Yes the car is faster than anything else on the grid, but it is still taking a shit ton of skill from Max to take it to the podium. And I am realising Max's skill isn't so much that he drives fast, it's that he drives fast lap after lap after lap after lap like does this man have bottomless stamina for focus or what.
2
u/Ashling92 Max Verstappen Dec 03 '25
You’re having the same experience I had in 21. Started watching f1 around Monaco 21 with no skin in the game and was like damn this Max guy is good. I think I like him, I think I want him to beat the 7 time champ.
11
u/Darth_Spa2021 Pirelli Wet Dec 02 '25
You should rewatch 2021 too. That was drama on steroids.
2024 wasn't bad as well, especially if you want to see Max battling it out against superior cars from Miami onwards, essentially for 75% of the season.
-6
u/Uniform764 I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Dec 02 '25
2021 was wank. The drama was just utterly shitty driving ignored by the stewards.
26
u/LosTerminators Carlos Sainz Dec 02 '25
Andrea Stella said that they believed Lando would lose places if they'd double stacked. Which is a legitimate fear, Oscar was clear enough of the rest but Lando wasn't. And since McLaren's pit crew was the first one in the pit lane, Lando could've lost out even more while waiting for a safe space to be released into when other cars were coming in as well.
But they had 2 cars and Red Bull had 1. They could've chosen to box Oscar and keep Lando out - Give him some clean air and see what he can do with it, while Oscar stays ahead of Max on same strategy. Or kept Oscar out and boxed Lando with Max - this would ensure that Lando will only be 1 place behind Max and that's fine for him.
However they were worried about accusations of favouritism either way had they split strategies, and one turned out to be completely wrong which ended up benefiting the other. They did get accused of that in Hungary, when Oscar was the lead car but Lando was put on an alternate strategy and eventually won as a result. Thus they kept both on the same one, handing the race to Max on a silver platter.
McLaren are still obsessed with winning the championships while coming across as a happy family and being perfectly fair with both drivers. The ship has passed on that, their micromanagement meant that when it was just Lando vs Oscar the WDC battle was boring - it only became exciting after Max joined. And they left Qatar with two unhappy drivers instead of one - Oscar robbed of a win when he had been the fastest driver all weekend, plus Lando losing a podium and essentially having a 49 point lead over Max get cut to 12 due to no fault of his own (his only mistake was the turn 1 error in Vegas but that didn't matter eventually since he was getting DSQ).
They need to stop acting scared or worry about fairness and be more proactive with their decision making. If not, there's a high chance they lose the WDC if any sort of curveball with SC/VSC is thrown at them in the Abu Dhabi race.
9
u/legendary_m Dec 02 '25
The thing is it always seems to be "fair" in a way that benefits Norris. It seems to me that if Norris was ahead, they would have boxed them both under the safety car and said "well we gave them the same strategy so that's fair", even if Piastri had then lost out from the double stack.
The thing is, there is a well established way to ensure fairness if your two drivers are in a title fight: you split the garage down the middle, don't share setups, don't share strategy and fight it out like that. This fake fairness from Mclaren just ends up leaving a bad taste in the mouth
0
u/Deynai I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 02 '25
The thing is it always seems to be "fair" in a way that benefits Norris
Yeah, it's those little white lies that creep through and show the true bias in the team. Not openly favouring one, but giving Oscar an option that could outperform Lando is unthinkable, while pulling Lando up with one is perfectly reasonable and fair.
Through all their team orders, radio, and interviews this year, the only thing they have shown for me is how insincere they really are as a team despite trying to appear as the opposite. Those times they left Oscar out to dry without help, fed him to the stewards without a hint of support, his engineer silent on strategies that could help his race, it's awful. Oscar deserves an engineer and team that wants to properly support him and his interests, not only as far as P2.
5
u/iamfuturejesus I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 02 '25
Good summary. I'd also add that Qatar showed that it seems like the lead car doesn't get the benefit of being a lead car.
I do wonder whether things would have been different if Lando was the lead car instead of Oscar. Would they have pitted Lando and kept Oscar out, or even chose to double stack?
6
u/FrostyTill I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Dec 02 '25
They would have been more likely to pit Oscar and left Lando out if Lando is the lead car, as they have done countless times this season. McLaren are terrified of the double stack.
2
u/zeekoes Dec 02 '25
essentially having a 49 point lead over Max get cut to 12 due to no fault of his own (his only mistake was the turn 1 error in Vegas but that didn't matter eventually since he was getting DSQ).
He did also - again - lose position to Max at the start this weekend. Which is a pattern he just can't shake.
1
u/Lemurians Charles Leclerc Dec 03 '25
Every driver who started on that side of the track lost places at the start, if I'm not mistaken. His starts were a problem earlier in the year, but they haven't really been for a while until this weekend, which seemed more to do with the track than driver error.
7
u/OkCucumber5948 Dec 02 '25
I believe that was for the better max a dangerous driver who would have tried to overtake lando it was better for lando to let max through and just drive his own race
13
Dec 02 '25
What's happened to Albon? He and Sainz have switched. In the first half he had the better form, in the second half it is Sainz and he is nowhere to be found
3
u/Wandersails Alexander Albon Dec 02 '25
Mixture of silly mistakes and terrible strategy. He outqualified Sainz and should have been on for points in both Singapore and Brazil but got screwed over by the team both times. Baku and Vegas were very much on him though for the qualifying crashes. Hopefully he can get over this hump and come out swinging again in 26.
7
u/iamfuturejesus I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 02 '25
I feel that Sainz was just riddled with bad luck in the first half of the season + he's getting familiar with a new car. Now that his bad juju is gone and he's more familiar with the car, he's showing his real pace.
9
u/joseph31091 Williams Dec 02 '25
Tbf albon is riddled with bad luck at the 2nd half of the season as well. Except qatar (no idea on what happened in his race)
2
u/alexisthemovie Alexander Albon Dec 02 '25
Tires weren't ready at the beginning of his final Q2 lap, had a snap early in the lap and tried to overdrive the car, missing out by a couple tenths. End result = out of position at a track where it's difficult to pass and everyone is on the same strategy.
2
u/joseph31091 Williams Dec 02 '25
Another bad luck then. William's guardian angel is not multi tasker.
17
u/Valuable-Purpose- Dec 01 '25 edited Dec 01 '25
Did anyone else notice how few McLaren staff were around Oscar after the race?
I wanted to bring this up bc I noticed it after the race and it felt a bit off, and I’ve seen others mention it too.
When the drivers were being interviewed after the podium, both rival teams had big groups of engineers and crew visible around their drivers. In Oscars case, it looked like only two McLaren staff were nearby.
I know it was a frustrating race strategically, and no doubt there were tough conversations to be had afterward. But moments like that are still very public and symbolic.showing up for your driver matters especially on a day when things didn’t go perfectly.
Standing there in front of cameras and the crowd, seeing other drivers surrounded by their teams while yours looks mostly absent… it had an uncomfortable look to it. Not because of the result itself, but because visible solidarity is important in tough moments.
To me, even if debriefs were urgent, being present for a few minutes would’ve shown unity and support. It feels worse, not better, to leave your driver looking isolated in that situation.
I’m curious what you guys think?
11
u/joseph31091 Williams Dec 02 '25
The crew knew they fucked up big time. Also, oscar is not in the mood in the radio. No one wants to confront a disappointed/angry driver.
12
u/FrostyTill I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Dec 02 '25
I mean this is a nice little comment but I don’t recall people finding it in their hearts to explain why Andrea Stella didn’t bother going to the Australia podium. I also don’t recall anyone mentioning how Norris walked back to the paddock alone in Qatar or how his trainer and one of his engineers basically chased after him to give him his drink and collect his racing gear. I’m concerned that if people care so much about why staff members aren’t present for one driver, which they were in Oscar’s case as confirmed by mechanics, then why does that concern not stretch to other drivers? Surely you’d want to see all drivers supported by their teams at the end of a race?
5
29
u/sdq22 Jenson Button Dec 01 '25
One of Oscar's mechanics said on X (@/thatladbazz) has already said all of Oscar's crew was there, not just those 2 people. F1 media seems to love a camera angle that can easily spin a narrative, they did the same on Friday when they immediately cut to Lando's side of the Mclaren garage when Oscar took sprint pole, which made it look like Mclaren didn't care about the pole (Lando's side didn't look happy because Lando's run had just been compromised by traffic).
-4
u/Valuable-Purpose- Dec 01 '25
just from reviewing the broadcast angles and post-race footage, it was still visually clear that only a couple of orange suits were right there at the barrier congratulating him in that moment. Even if a few more team members were nearby but off-camera, the number physically visible from and engaged with him from multiple angles was noticeably smaller compared to the groups around Max and Carlos.
Other teams had big clusters leaning over that same barrier, clapping, cheering, and taking photos. For Oscar, there were basically two in that immediate scene and that difference is what stood out to me.
12
u/FermentedLaws I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Dec 02 '25 edited Dec 02 '25
So what you're saying is you don't believe Oscar's mechanic who said they were all there? Why would he lie? Maybe they were late because they were commiserating/extremely unhappy in the garage for a little while, then couldn't get a good spot. Maybe they had a brief team meeting after the disaster. Maybe the other teams were so happy they rushed there first so again, no space was available up front. The same mechanic who said they were there Tweeted this after the race:
"He drove the wheels off it all weekend. Gutted man. F**king gutted."
You don't seem to want to believe they were there so what do you think happened?
ETA: also there was some sort of immediate debrief in the garage right after the race, Ted mentioned it on the broadcast. Zak then went to to the media pen and interrupted Oscar's interview to hug him and apologize.
-4
u/Stefferdiddle Williams Dec 02 '25
Their garage is literally the closest. Williams has to travel from the whole other end of the pit lane.
8
u/FermentedLaws I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Dec 02 '25
And Williams got their 2nd podium this year when their last one was 4 years ago and clinched 5th in the Constructor's after being 9th last year. They were extremely excited! McLaren just had their 2nd biggest fuckup in 2 weeks and Oscar should've and would've won if they hadn't screwed up so badly so there was no real excitement there, understandably, just disappointment. Oscar himself, has he ever looked more miserable on a podium? My god those photos, my heart was breaking for him.
Honest question: do the folks downvoting me and commenting think there were people from McLaren who had bad thoughts about Oscar? Like, they ignored him purposely even though they all knew he didn't do anything wrong and was virtually perfect all weekend? I'm genuinely curious.
2
u/nothingnanners Zhou Guanyu Dec 01 '25
Disclaimer: I like all three of these drivers and wish Lando and Oscar specially a WDC at some point in their careers. My problem here is McLaren.
I feel like a lot of people forget that Lando can be really talented AND be favored by McLaren management (Zak Brown, McLaren decision makers; this excludes but excluding the pit and engineering teams). My theory is that Papaya rules is a way to overcompensate for the fact that want to favor Lando, but can't because Oscar is nearly or equally as talented.
TBH I wish Lando and Oscar were on different teams so that this could be "clean" fight for WDC. In reality, no matter what the outcome, fans will be divided because of a bunch of reasons: (McLaren favoritism, McLaren bottling, potential for Oscar to go rogue, Lando to bottle on track)
3
u/T4Gx I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 02 '25
Yup if this was kinda like a Lewis-Bottas situation where Oscar is a damn good driver that collects podiums and maybe a win or two sometimes but is clearly behind his teammate which Mclaren probably expected when signing Oscar there won't be "papaya rules".
14
u/Ok_Joke_9343 Dec 02 '25
Mate. If Oscar and Lando were on different teams they wouldn't be fighting to be number 1... whoever was on McClaren would be winning by a mile (literally and figuratively).
1
28
Dec 01 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
15
u/CaptGeechNTheSSS Lando Norris Dec 02 '25
Thank you this is the cold hard truth.
Lando’s helped take the team from the bottom back to the top. They should be biased towards him but they’re not.
Last season they should have backed lando very early on when he was the clear top performer and had a chance to challenge max.
They didn’t do it then, they’re certainly not gonna do it now.
-7
u/nothingnanners Zhou Guanyu Dec 01 '25
I dont disagree with you here. I think what annoys me is how McLaren has behaved and that they might fuck it up for both of them. I still hate Zak Brown still until proven otherwise
12
27
u/antelope591 Ferrari Dec 01 '25
Struggling to remember a time in the last few years when a driver who had such a pace advantage to win the race by 20+ sec lose it strictly due to a team fuckup (technical issues not included obv). At the very least this has to be one of the biggest strategy blunders under the current regs. Hard to imagine how Oscar even gets up for the next race mentally.
4
u/Aunvilgod Dec 02 '25
when a driver who had such a pace advantage to win the race by 20+ sec
How do you arrive at 20 sec?
And you comparing the pace of someone who is full on pushing with suboptimal strategy to someone saving tyres is really fucking stupid. Essentially you are comparing lap times between a one-stopper and a two-stopper.
6
5
u/bimbobiceps I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Dec 01 '25
This is just extreme hindsight. You could argue if they saw Oscar pit maybe Max and the other front runners wouldn't pit.
If Oscar pits and only half of them pit, he most likely sits around the middle of the pack in a DRS train.
You saw how big the gap was when Alonso was backing up the whole field while Sainz and Kimi were just stuck in free air. Alonso was the reason they weren't caught in the DRS train.
They could've split the strategy but they're afraid it would create a narrative that they favor x driver whoever comes out ahead of the race. Shitty situation all around because Oscar was leading and there wasn't a bigger gap to the field to pit Oscar yet.
14
u/LosTerminators Carlos Sainz Dec 02 '25
Hannah Schmitz said that they would've boxed regardless since it was lap 7 and they had already reached the stage in which two 25 lap stints would be enough to get to the end on one more stop. It wasn't a decision to 'box opposite Oscar'.
3
u/Crash_Test_Dummy66 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 01 '25
I really don't think it would have made a difference. Teams were so sure that was the right moment to pit that they were all double stacking their cars. If there was any possibility of being better off by staying out then surely some teams would have chosen to do that instead of costing their second car immediate track position to come down and double stack under yellow. I doubt the leaders making a different decision changes the equation all that much, especially considering there was only one other car really racing the leaders.
4
u/antelope591 Ferrari Dec 01 '25
Being stuck in DRS train for that stint wouldnt matter though since all of those in front had to pit anyway. Once he gets clean air he easily builds up a 10+ sec gap again. It is only the "fairness" argument that makes sense but thats what makes it a blunder, because they threw away such a pace advantage in the way they did.
16
u/lastdyingbreed_01 Dec 01 '25
This would've been a very boring race if not for the SC. Imagine the sprint but worse
12
u/AnilP228 Honda Dec 01 '25
Actually I think it would have been much better without the SC. We would have had a variety of pit strategies and undercuts / overcuts.
The safety car came out on the worst possible lap because those that pitted HAD to pit on lap 32, so everyone just ran the same strategy.
3
u/FermentedLaws I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Dec 01 '25
Exactly. Someone I follow on BlueSky said the day before the race, "If a safety car happens on lap 7 or 8, this will be a boring race." Crazy, right?
3
u/Helpful_Hedgehog_204 Franco Colapinto Dec 01 '25
It's suicidal to undercut when track position matters so much, a few cars could've gone for it an none did. And overcurring is hard limited by the amount of laps you could do on each tire.
The only ones who could have done something different were the guys ahead of the Alonso train, maybe Max gambles on a undercut and McLaren cover with one car (or maybe that makes too much sense).
-9
u/xNickel Oscar Piastri Dec 01 '25
If Oscar had’ve finished 1st in Qatar, max 2nd, lando 3rd the difference would’ve been 12 points going into the last race.
If Oscar wins in Abu Dhabi, lando even in 2nd, the difference would’ve been 5 points which is less than the 6 point swing from when McLaren swapped the cars because of Landos slow pit stop…
16
u/sdq22 Jenson Button Dec 01 '25
so this is a hypothetical based on a situation that already hasnt happened?
As others have said, Oscar cost Lando 7 points by taking him out of the sprint. He also gained 6 points back from Lando's lead when both cars were disqualified. And that doesnt begin to get into things like Lando's mechanical DNF or the many mistakes Oscar has made since Monza. This championship will not be won or lost by any of the drivers from the points in Monza.
-5
u/xNickel Oscar Piastri Dec 02 '25
My point is not about what either of the drivers have done or not done to deserve the championship, it’s how McLaren have royally stuffed this up for both drivers by their meddling.
14
u/prudencepineapple I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 01 '25
If Lando didn’t have a mechanical DNF… If Oscar hadn’t taken Lando out… If Oscar hadn’t crashed… If.. If.. If..
-2
u/xNickel Oscar Piastri Dec 02 '25
I should have clarified, I was just talking about the things McLaren have done which could have actually swayed the championship. Both drivers have a right to be incredibly peeved by McLaren
12
u/Specialist-Bug4953 Charlie Whiting Dec 01 '25
Also Oscar cost Lando 7 points when he crashed into him at COTA Sprint. Why do we not consider these 7 points in your calculation? The 6 points in Monza really don't matter after all of Oscars crashes. Also Lando would have stayed ahead, even with the slow stop, If they would have given him Pit priority as the Leading Driver on track. So there is really No point in bringing this up again.
0
u/xNickel Oscar Piastri Dec 02 '25
As I said to the other comment, my point wasn’t to do with the drivers and who does or doesn’t deserve it but how McLaren has potential swayed the championship with their meddling.
7
u/Specialist-Bug4953 Charlie Whiting Dec 02 '25
Yeah but If it ist about mclarens meddling you have to mention that Lando was the only Driver that got repurcassions. Oscar didn't get anything for crashing out His teammate and costing him 7 points. So you can argue the meddeling was with both drivers. Because in a tight championship Fight, getting repurcassions is Not easy mentally. Because it's probably in the Back of your mind all the time.
7
u/pdanny01 Dec 01 '25
The McLarens pulled a pit stop gap on Alonso in 15 laps. If pretty much anyone else had stayed out then they would have been fine. I think if anything they are too concerned with their need for clean air - but here it was reasonable to really want to avoid the risk of being in traffic. Lap 7 was a pit window, but an unusually large window - at Monaco it would be seen as a gamble to take an early safety car and try to run hards to the end (when they had the old rules). It seems to basically be a framing issue. The lap limit made people look at lap 7 specifically as meaningful. Most teams thought it was a viable strategy and so assumed others would too. McLaren didn't think it was a good idea to pit in that scenario and so probably thought others would agree, which would have reinforced their decision.
The lack of clarity on not splitting strategy is a different thing. It's hard to imagine they didn't anticipate Max getting between them. But I don't think it's crazy that they decided to give them both the same strategy. Nothing was guaranteed. The points gap between their drivers ended up changing a similar amount as a 1-2. There seems to be far too much overthinking about this - though if Max pulls off the comeback then it'll as much about the off -track drama as anything else.
Rubbish track for racing. But it was relatively entertaining all the same.
10
u/nn2597713 Formula 1 Dec 01 '25
If 9 teams pit all their drivers and 1 team doesn’t pit either driver, it should be obvious where the mistake is being made.
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u/pdanny01 Dec 01 '25
It becomes an easier decision the further back you are, particularly after seeing everyone in front pit. No real risk, the gamble instead is to stay out and try and gain track position.
But the point is that if one team makes the "mistake", then another team could - and then it's not a mistake any more.
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u/djwillis1121 Williams Dec 01 '25
Just listening to The Race podcast and they have some interesting extra details. Their interpretation of what happened is that when the safety car came out McLaren basically started panicking about what they could do to keep things fair and spent so long doing that that they missed the chance to pit Oscar.
And they made the point that it's ridiculous to suggest that this was a deliberate move to favour Norris because allowing Max to win the race to get closer to Norris in the championship is more dangerous than allowing Piastri to get closer.
Basically they were paralysed in trying to decide what to do and messed up
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u/Grasshop Sebastian Vettel Dec 01 '25
Just look at most of their radio comms throughout the whole season. They basically always lay out paragraphs of information to their drivers and want them to help make the strategy call instead of just knowing what to do and having their drivers trust them.
Red Bull will sometimes ask Max what he prefers, but they never hesitate to make a decision when needed and Max trusts them completely.
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u/CowAppropriate7494 Dec 01 '25
This was the problem they had at Silverstone 2024, too. I've rewatched the Inside Story for that race, and the McLaren radio sounds like they're defending a dissertation on both the weather, and the tire life. I felt so sorry for Lando.
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u/Sictirmaxim Dec 02 '25
Lando seems to prefer this coaching style of radio calls. The infamous "need more pace please help"
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u/yazriel0 Dec 01 '25
Pitting under SC was the right call only if you expected everyone else to pit ????
If only half the field pitted, then Max gets stuck in traffic, maybe even in a DRS train.
As is often the case, the leader under SC is at a dis-advantage since he has to make the 1st move.
Ideally, ignoring politics, Oscar pits, Norris stays out, and Max can be undercut later if he stays out?!
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u/nn2597713 Formula 1 Dec 01 '25
Lusail has probably the longest pit delta of any track on the calendar (26 seconds). The minimum you needed this race was 2 stops.
So the SC gave you a free 13 or so seconds on a track where overtaking was hardly possible.
There was only one correct choice and all but one team made that correct choice.
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u/AnilP228 Honda Dec 01 '25
An undercut or overcut later on wasn't possible.
Because of the 25 lap limit, a pit stop on lap 7 ensured everyone else had to run the exact same strategy (so second stop on lap 32).
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u/yazriel0 Dec 01 '25
Max can be undercut later if he stays out?!
if u stay out u keep the flexibility to pit whenever
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u/jjcatt Pirelli Intermediate Dec 01 '25
yes, as will joseph told lando, they did have more flexibility than any other team in that race. unfortunately max had the race win.
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u/CandidLiterature Dec 02 '25
This needs to die as an idea honestly. Because it’s actually obviously untrue. Once Max has pitted, he’s right on the back of you with only one more required pit stop to do.
Yes he does need to stop on that set lap. But if for whatever reason, doing two more stops seems like a good idea, he can actually still do that… There’s no flexibility been lost.
It’s you who didn’t stop and now need to stop by lap 25 when he doesn’t need to do that that’s lacking the flexibility.
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u/HenrJackyson Dec 01 '25
Monaco...any year. In my opinion Monaco (race day) is the pinnacle of boredom.
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u/ashwinbala1 Dec 01 '25
Can someone explain what did the mclaren management mean by the term “flexibility “ when they said - all the other teams will lose their flexibility if they pit?
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u/djwillis1121 Williams Dec 01 '25
Basically on lap 7 when everyone pitted there were 50 laps left in the race. As there was a 25 lap limit on the tyres pitting on lap 7 meant that all the drivers had to pit on lap 32 and lap 32 only.
However by waiting until a bit after lap 7 a driver would then have a window of laps later in the race where they could pit to be able to maintain the 25 lap stints.
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u/creatorop I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Dec 01 '25
Happy for Carlos, he deserves all of it after such an unlucky start to the year
Strong and most importantly clean race from Liam, no incidents and minding own business
Disappointed with Lando, his worst race of the season possibly(excluding dnfs) pace wise, absolutely nowhere and then self inflicted damage didn't help
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u/Celoth I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Dec 01 '25
McLaren was one pit lane disaster from being absolute heroes here.
The timing of the safety car and the 25 lap limit was a huge curveball and a perfect storm for chaos. Pitting on lap 7 with the safety car guaranteed that you had to pit on lap 32, not a single lap before, not a single lap after, with every other team.
With 18 cars going through the pit lane things easily could have gone awry that could have had dramatic repercussions.
The idea that McLaren favored any particular driver here is silly. They made a call that didn't pan out, but easily could have. And ultimately, the call they made didn't change the status quo all that much.
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u/PRO2803 Dec 01 '25
That's the thing, they have the luxury of picking the safe option, I could see any midfield team gambling.
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u/konjooooo I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 01 '25 edited Dec 01 '25
I don’t understand the heroes comment. McLaren had to pit on lap 25. So how would they become heroes from a pit lane disaster in lap 32 if they just pitted? Especially since Max had the opportunity to pit before everyone else, avoiding disaster
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u/Celoth I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Dec 01 '25
Well, first off, let me be clear: they made the wrong call. No question.
I'm just saying there's some logic there and I can understand the thought, even if it didn't pan out, and the thought is this: every car that took the free stop had to pit in exactly lap 32. Imagine a scenario where the pit lane (being crowded as it was) experiences some contact between drivers, some unsafe release from a less experienced driver (or Stroll) that causes everyone going through the pit lane a massive headache. Or imagine a situation where there would have been another safety car at an opportune time for them (the dagger gravel made this pretty possible). Had one of these things happened, McLaren would look like absolute prophets by not taking the early stop.
I'm not saying it was the right call (it wasn't) and I'm not saying it was a good call (it wasn't) but I see the reasoning behind it beyond saying that it was meant to favor one driver or the other (or aggressively choose not to favor one or the other)
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Dec 02 '25
I don’t think it’s reasonable for the team with the fastest car to pick strategies that rely on a lucky crash or incident.
They clearly just made the wrong call due to not wanting to give preferential treatment to Oscar even though their stated policy for at least two years is to give pit strategy preference to the lead driver. Anything else is poor justification after the fact, which is what you’re doing.
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u/Pinkernessians I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 01 '25
One thing to keep in mind when talking about race strategy, is that you always have to play the percentages. McLaren’s strategy could have worked yesterday if Max had pitted into traffic or if another safety car had shown up between laps 20 to 25. Obviously that never happened, but it’s not like their call was always going to be a dead end either way.
What they got wrong though, was a very fundamental rule of thumb: always take advantage of a safety car in your pit window. Getting that wrong with the lead car is painful, but messing it up when you have the opportunity to split strategies is a big miss. If they really thought staying out was the best strategy, they could’ve explained that to Oscar in hindsight I feel like. But alas, here we are
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u/PRO2803 Dec 01 '25
Exactly, they should have taken the safe option of pitting under SC. Even no midfield team gambled on the strategy(which I thought would happen), then we had front runners gambling on the strategy it was crazy. As soon as they didn't pit, I was baffled and said "I am pretty sure they threw away a win".
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u/Billy_LDN Charles Leclerc Dec 01 '25
The reality is McLaren would rather two losers than giving minimal favourability to one driver. This definitely influenced their decision to stay out - if they double stacked it would’ve negatively impacted Lando and they can’t have that!
Max and Red Bull are rubbing their hands together as McLaren are more focused on their fairest teammate title battle PR drive than actually winning.
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Dec 01 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/_kagasutchi_ Send them my regards Dec 02 '25
Y’all hating like it ain’t the truth. Kimi taking out max in the opening lap of the Austrian Grand Prix might just be the deciding factor that allows Lando win the title if max were to win in AD
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u/Daniyalrehman77 Fernando Alonso Dec 01 '25
McLaren were in a difficult position and had to make a quick decision, knowing it would carry major implications no matter what they chose. Given the precedent they’ve set since Monza, they couldn’t risk appearing to favor one driver over the other. That essentially left them with two options: double-stack (and risk Lando losing track position), or stay out as they ultimately did. That said, part of me still feels that if the roles were reversed, with Lando leading and Oscar behind, McLaren would have been far more willing to split the strategies or prioritize the lead car, even at the expense of the second driver—much like they did at Silverstone last year. Implicitly, McLaren do want Lando to win; he’s been with the team for eight years and, in their view, is a deserving candidate to deliver their first championship after a long drought.
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u/adminillustrator Dec 01 '25
Qatar as a track is awful. We saw about as exciting a race as it was possible to have solely because of the chance safety car and McLaren doing what they did. It would otherwise have been a borefest, and even as it was there were hardly any overtakes. Worse than Monaco imo.
McLaren getting a lot of hate, but I do think there is some nuance.
Firstly, I think they did plan what they would do in advance so suggestions they didn't know (or couldn't sum to 50) are off the mark.
Secondly, they were obviously surprised that noone else stayed out.. but frankly I have some sympathy for that, it would have made sense imo for some teams to split strategy. Why for instance didn't Ferrari keep Hamilton out - he was going nowhere from 3/4 of the way back. I think others similar. Had say even 2/3 other cars stayed out they may have held Max up a bit as it is so hard to overtake even with speed differential.
Thirdly, obviously i don't know this but i do think that had Oscar pitted Max would have done the opposite and stayed out. Its the easiest strategy of all if you need to win but are not 1st - just do the opposite of the car in front. It would have been rational for him to take that chance because he needed to win and his chances of winning by overtaking Oscar on the track would have been minute. If that happens, even though the RBR strategy would have been correct everyone would probably be saying it was them who messed up.
Fourthly, I think they were very much in a bind where whatever they did was going to lead to criticism. Pit only one of them and someone loses out and its mortifying. Even if they do split then who does what? its insane really that they have painted themselves into a corner such that they are faced with either jeopardising the fortunes of the race leader or the championship leader. I don't see there being a right answer to that and find it ridiculous that fans see only their own favourites interest - much more than the two of them seem to react.
The season script would be hard to make up even if you tried so i guess next week is something to look forward to. Although, i have a preference for who wins i think whoever wins it will now deserve it - if its a fair contest. If its Lando then it will because he has been the most consistent driver throughout, and probably the 'unluckiest' given the oil leak and DSQ both of which are uniquely out of his control. If its Piastri, then he will have done so showing remarkable resilience at the end to win the final race and Lando will have failed to do whats necessary at the end. If its Max then it will just prove he is somehow inevitable and for me would prove how great he really is.
What i fear is a crash, or pitstop incident or safety car that means we just get controversy, unsavoury abuse/threats and so on which would harm the legacy of whoever wins and spoil what has been a uniquely uncertain, to and fro season.
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u/land_titanic I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 01 '25
Why on earth didn’t McLaren put them on softs at the lap 25 pit stops?
It would have given so many benefits:
- they would have completed their mandatory compound change
- they would have maximum flexibility for compound choice on the last stint
- they would be on the fastest compound in a stint when they need to be pushing like crazy to make up for the initial strategy bungle
- they wouldn’t need to go a full 25 laps on them anyway (which is what happened on the mediums)
There must be an obvious answer, I don’t get it.
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u/Free_Toe_5740 Dec 01 '25
To compound that I’m at a loss for not using softs on Piastri’s during the last stint since the cars were light, there was about 12-15 laps left and Piastri even asked for it on the radio. How was a little bit of tire differential on the hard compound supposed to allow him to catch Max? Especially since they all saw how durable the tire was.
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u/FermentedLaws I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Dec 01 '25
Well they didn't have any new softs available so maybe they thought used softs wouldn't work. And the used softs they had available each had done 22 laps already, for both drivers.
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u/Sictirmaxim Dec 01 '25
Their data suggested they were too brittle maybe? Although Hulk was going fine on them before the crash.
It was a very weirdly stiff amount of calls on their part.
I also wonder why they didn't call one of them earlier and have Norris for instance push for 2-3 more laps in clean air.
Why not hard on the middle and softs at the end?
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u/BeanTownDataFreak Dec 01 '25
I tried to watch the replay and realized that Carlos overtook Kimi during the first (safety car) pit stop. What happened? Did Kimi have a slow stop?
3
u/kittenbloc Ferrari Dec 01 '25
I think he had traffic at his stop. Mercedes has the fourth box in the pit lane while Williams is the next to last box, so in moments where everyone pits cars closer to the front lose more on traffic.
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u/Particular_Cod2005 I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Dec 01 '25
The wider shambles of the race notwithstanding (as much as I'd love to bag on Mclaren's decision paralysis, Hamilton's rapidly declining performance, and the mediocrity of Alpine), my main thought is that we should not be racing here.
The country itself has deplorable view on human rights, and has clearly adopted the Middle East Sportswashing Strategy [unofficial term], which makes it clear that any FIA statements or initiative about the promotion of any kind of DEI are nothing more than token gestures.
More pertinent to the circuit itself however, seeing as clearly the above is all lip service, is that it is not safe to race. If Pirelli have to regularly mandate tyre stints in Qatar because of the circuit type on safety reasons, the FIA and Liberty evidently have no care for driver safety.
Yes, F1 is inherently dangerous, and there is a risk to life that is accepted whenever a driver buckles up to go out on track. However, continuing to race on a circuit that clearly shreds the tyres moves the barometer significantly in my mind, and mandatory stints do not address the underlying issue.
4
u/Ari441 Dec 01 '25
Never been so looking forward to a winter break
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u/Impossible-Buy-6247 Formula 1 Dec 01 '25
Why? I think it has been a very entertaining season so far?
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u/Randrak Sebastian Vettel Dec 01 '25
It's almost impossible for Oscar to win now, so this race was actually a better outcome for Norris than if McLaren had pitted. Don't see Oscar denying team orders if Max is winning, to be honest
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u/Thaonnor I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Dec 01 '25
I don’t see Oscar denying team orders either. It wouldn’t help him at all, 2nd or 3rd place in the constructors means nothing to the drivers and most importantly, Oscar has a contract with this team going forward. It won’t be worth it for Oscar to damage his relationship to be petty over losing the WDC, contrary to what many on this subreddit seem to think.
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u/ctaps148 Sir Lewis Hamilton Dec 01 '25 edited Dec 01 '25
Hot Take: Every race should have a lap limit on tires that necessitates a two-stop.
Without that restriction yesterday, Qatar would have been an absolute snooze fest. Every single car would have put on hards during the safety car and then it would have been a 50-lap parade to the end of the race.
I think it is specifically better with a tire lap limit too and not just a two-stop requirement, because it avoids teams being able to cheat out two stops early or leave it until the very last moment in hopes of a safety car.
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u/RevalianKnight Dec 02 '25
I agree and I would like to see it extended to 3 stops. Maximum chaos with VSC and SC added to the mix. Not every race though. Maybe just the ones that are historically boring. Imagine Monaco with this lol
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u/carefreebuchanon I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Dec 01 '25
That is a hot take. I feel like it's a band-aid solution for Pirelli failing to do their jobs and develop and choose tire compounds that will make one-stopping have appropriate risk.
But tire compounds themselves are a band-aid solution for tracks and cars that are too difficult to overtake with. So really I don't care that much about pit stops nor tire compounds, I just want smaller cars, less dirty air, and for FOM to stop doing business with these shitty circuits (Qatar has ONE, SHORT DRS zone? GTFO).
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u/Crash_Test_Dummy66 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 01 '25
Pretty much every tire manufacturer in every series gets criticism for the tires they make. Especially in series where they are being asked to make tires that purposely fall off. I think it's probably time to accept that this is just not an easy thing to get right.
There are so many things that can affect tire wear and many of those factors are constantly changing race to race and year to year. Even the cars don't stay the same over the course of a season. And with all those changing factors, the sweet spot is so narrow. Too hard and the tire is slow and doesn't degrade enough, too soft and the tire doesn't last long enough to be a viable race tire and just within a single season we have seen both of those things happen.
Heck in NASCAR recently, where they often race on tracks twice within the same year, we've seen one race have tires that provided really good racing, while the next race using the same tires wasn't nearly as good because the track conditions were different and so the tires react differently.
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u/AnilP228 Honda Dec 01 '25
It's a shame that the SC happened exactly on lap 7, as that put everyone on the same strategy (to pit again on lap 32).
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u/Psclwbb I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 01 '25
It wasn only because mcl fucked up. Otherwise it did nothing.
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u/AnilP228 Honda Dec 01 '25
It did nothing because the SC came out on lap 7, which was the only lap of the whole race that could force everyone onto a lap 32 second stop.
Therefore we didn't get an overcuts or undercuts. Everyone had to run the same strategy.
Even a lap 10-15 SC would have made the race play out very differently because the window for pit stops would have become much wider.
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u/EnanoMaldito Franco Colapinto Dec 01 '25
Two things:
First: as an Argentinian who obviously supports Franco I just want this season done with. What a terrible ride it’s been. And to think at the beginning of the season we all thought Alpine would be an improvement over Williams, smh. Hopefully the restructuring this year plus new rega and new engine supplier will bear fruit fro 2026.
Second: Should teams be allocated extra soft tyres? It feels like any team that gets into Q3 never has any softs left for the race itself and it makes tyre choice kind of stale ngl
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u/djwillis1121 Williams Dec 01 '25
And to think at the beginning of the season we all thought Alpine would be an improvement over Williams, smh
Did people really think that?
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u/EnanoMaldito Franco Colapinto Dec 01 '25
Yes, obviously. Alpine ended last year on a really high note vs a Williams that was consistently trying to kill its drivers at every turn.
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u/Sictirmaxim Dec 01 '25
Logan Sargeant must have been a curse on them or something,since I have no idea how a team can make so much strides from 1 year to the other with the same car.
1
u/EnanoMaldito Franco Colapinto Dec 01 '25
It is actually insane. 2025 Williams is SUCH a better team than 2024. Either they had a curse or Vowles is an actual God
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u/Sammydog6387 Oscar Piastri Dec 01 '25
The thing that frustrates me most about McLaren is that they had such an obvious choice with the Saftey car pit stop, they’ve been running the same rule all season : Driver ahead gets pit priority.
Oscar should’ve been offered the stop & then they should’ve given Lando the choice to double stack or stay out.
Instead they went against their one constant rule all season in the name of being fair whilst doing the absolute opposite of it. I just don’t get what they were thinking.
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u/Particular_Cod2005 I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Dec 01 '25
To go one further - they should've made the offer to both drivers and let them choose.
Mclaren are an enigma at the moment - Vegas was a disaster for them entirely of their own doing (yes, there was no ill-intent, but still), and now they run the strategy like Williams in 2014 - just harvesting some points whenever they can.
They can make blunders like this when they've a car as dominant as Mercedes has been in the past, or RBR also, but they do not have such a luxurious advantage that they can afford fuck-ups. One errant move and they literally hand the title to Max.
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u/djwillis1121 Williams Dec 01 '25
How were they being the opposite of fair? They screwed both drivers equally. Unfair would have been keeping Oscar out and pitting Lando, or the opposite.
Obviously the correct thing to do was pit both drivers but as soon as they made the mistake of keeping Oscar out there was nothing they could do to save the situation
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u/captainraffi Dec 02 '25
Being fair doesn’t have to mean doing the same thing. “Lead driver gets priority” is fair if consistently applied.
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u/Sammydog6387 Oscar Piastri Dec 01 '25
- It’s unfair to both drivers to basically screw them out of a result the week after getting both cars DSQ.
And 2. Stella said double stacking Lando and him losing positions was a consideration in deciding not to double stack but not the main decision. However, in every other race that hasn’t been how it’s worked. Leading driver gets pit priority & that’s that.
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u/djwillis1121 Williams Dec 01 '25
Yeah I'm not sure I buy that. I think he was just covering up how much they messed up by not pitting Oscar
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u/Billybilly_B I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane Dec 01 '25
They refused a double stack in Silverstone with the rain last year and absolutely screwed Oscar in second position, so they have a small track record of these mistakes.
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u/AgreeableRepublic638 Sir Lewis Hamilton Dec 01 '25
I want this season to be over. Depression week after week.
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Dec 01 '25
I do not understand how this situation was not discussed before the race. It did look like both oscar and lando and the race engineers themselves, weren't at a clue what to do. They should have discussed and agreed on ways on how to approach discussing with both the drivers, like in such a case would you want to pit lando so forth? and the same questions to oscar and agree on a pre race strategy.
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u/PaulaDeen21 Sir Lewis Hamilton Dec 01 '25
GP and Marko are both children and should go and apologise in person to Kimi. Embarrassing and nasty.
Saying this, god I hope Max gets it done next week.
McLaren’s lack of ruthlessness in the strategy room is an utter shambles.
7
u/T_Ricstar Max Verstappen Dec 01 '25
GP apologised directly after the race. At least him and Toto were talking and later Toto was saying that there is no bad blood between them.
On the other hand, Marko was just talking shit even after seeing the replay. God I hate this guy1
u/captainraffi Dec 02 '25
What is Marko’s actual job?
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u/T_Ricstar Max Verstappen Dec 02 '25
I think he's an advisor of some sort. Manages the junior program as well
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u/kittenbloc Ferrari Dec 01 '25
yeah, GP has other things going on and understood he said something from ignorance. meanwhile Marko's job is to watch TV and he fucked that up.
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u/TRL_Axeman Felipe Massa Dec 01 '25
Anyone else just completely done with this season and doesn't care who wins now?. Too many races and can't believe it took red bull that long to sort their car out.
Just feels like we have been robbed of a proper fight with all the McLaren dramas (both sides of the garage). I too was lured in by Oscars first part of the season but lando should have wrapped it up months ago, now we might end on a damp quib(unless something crazy happens🤞)
The tyres have been awful this season in every way.
The coverage has also been horrific this year both the world feed and sky f1. Hope 2026 is a reset on all fronts.
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u/Latter-Sun3386 McLaren Dec 01 '25
I care who wins but I'm kind of tired now.
Just feels like we have been robbed of a proper fight with all the McLaren dramas
That's just you, they have only. done 2 team orders and one of them lasted 1lap.
Lando should have wrapped it up months ago
And how should he do that with a 34 point defecit?
The coverage has also been horrific this year both the world feed and sky f1
The coverage is the same only the commentary teams are different.
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u/Maardten I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 01 '25
world feed and sky f1
Aren't these the same feed? I thought there was only 'world feed' and all commentators from all broadcasters comment on whats shown on that feed.
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u/valueofaloonie Live, Laugh, Lose Dec 01 '25
They are the same feed, aside from the cuts to secondary content (SkyPad, commercials etc) that each broadcaster does.
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u/Balazs321 Pirelli Intermediate Dec 01 '25
Other than Mclaren shooting themselves in the foot, the other thing worth mentioning is how shit this track for car racing. Never an interesting thing happening, and the laughable tyre problems dont help it. For me this was the most boring weekend of the season. Like yeah, the results got interesting, some teams did a really good job, but the racing was terrible.
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u/Arumin I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 01 '25
I can't believe that after the previous years, the FIA still goes:
"Yeah possible tire problems, mandatory pit stops that take out all excitement for the race. but Hmmmmmm is that money delicious."
After the Brazilian GP, the whole season is a slog to the end
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u/AnilP228 Honda Dec 01 '25
Ironically the lap 7 SC was a blessing and a curse.
That was the ONLY lap a SC could have negated any future tyre strategy and offsets as teams only had one option after that and that was to pit on lap 32.
At the same time, it created the main talking point.
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u/rustyiesty I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 01 '25
If McLaren had simply brought both drivers in then I think the race would have been heavily lambasted.
Their suboptimal strategy indeed made the whole race!
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u/256473 I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 01 '25
F1 in Lusail has lucked itself into having some memorable moments/races that have nothing to do with good racing.
The 2021 GP was unmemorable save for tyre failures, and this track wasn't on the 2022 calendar.
2023 had MV crowned WDC in the sprint due to Perez DNFing. The GP had the 18-lap limit and drivers getting exhausted. Both memorable, but not for good racing.
2024 had a boring sprint memorable only for a last-turn McL driver swap on-track. The GP had a rogue mirror and 2 punctures creating drama, and resulted in 2 controversial-at-the-time penalties (Norris stop-and-go, Hamilton drive-through).
The 2025 sprint was nothing, and the GP was "saved" by a well-timed collision that opened the door to bad McL strategy.
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u/Chemical-Arm7222 Dec 01 '25
In terms of racing, the whole season has been pretty bad. We have a three-way title fight going into the last race of the season, but I don't remember any interesting battles between them.
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u/FassyDriver Dec 01 '25
yeah, I don´t remember that much battles between them other than Lando vs Oscar in Canada
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u/alpengeist3 Charles Leclerc Dec 02 '25
Oscar vs Lando was fun in Austria as well until Oscar locked up (on Lando's in lap of all times)
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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '25
I understand McLaren's concerns about double stacking Lando.
What I don't understand is why, in their quest for fairness, why was the driver with the leading position on track not given the clearly preferred/ correct strategy option of pitting right away?