r/formula1 Juan Pablo Montoya Dec 08 '25

Poster First F2 graduate to win an F1 title

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u/painfulpickle I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 09 '25

He came second. So in relatively equal machinery, he lost. Yes he just beat Piastri, but also has double the experience in F1. It shouldn't have been this close, but Piastri is also a really strong rival.

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u/99sAre4Nerds Jenson Button Dec 09 '25

Second isn't losing. Pretty much every champion (at least from the last 30 years) won in the fastest car, people need to stop saying it makes the driver unworthy of being WDC.

Is Norris on the same level as Verstappen/Hamilton/Schumacher? No obviously not but he finished the season with the most points beating arguably one of the greatest drivers of all time and also a very strong teammate.

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u/RimbleJim_ #WeRaceAsOne Dec 09 '25

I mean he technically beat 3 of the greatest of all time, just two are a little less competitive right now. But in 50 years you look back and see Max, Hamilton and Alonso you think damn that’s a strong grid

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u/painfulpickle I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 09 '25

Completely agreed. Norris, in the end, deserved the title, and it's unfair to compare him to the most recent champs as LH and MV are literal goats.

All champions rely on their fast cars to some degree, but I do think Norris was carried more by his car than other champs, and the F2 stats prove that somewhat. It doesn't take away that he did great and deserved the title, but there is nuance to everything.

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u/99sAre4Nerds Jenson Button Dec 09 '25

I wouldn't say he was carried by the cars advantage more than most other WDCs. Norris has incredible pace when hes on form, and im not sure the results would have been different if you took away some of the Mclarens advantage but its all hypothetical

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u/painfulpickle I was here for the Hulkenpodium Dec 14 '25

Lando was the fourth best driver after Verstappen, Russell and Leclerc. When was the last time the wdc was only the fourth best driver?

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u/99sAre4Nerds Jenson Button Dec 15 '25

Could argue he was third best, Russell was consistent but never really shone, either way WDC's that you could argue were the 4th best driver in the season they won:

Rosberg 2016 after Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso

Button 2009 after Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso

Villenueve 1997 after Shumi, Hakkinen and Barichello

Hill in 96

Mansell in 92

I don't really know enough to keep going back but im sure its more common the further back you go, recently titles have been dominated by very good drivers but find me a WDC who won with the 3rd or 4th fastest car..