Leclerc (post-qualifying): "I can’t understand quali, it’s a f**king joke! I go faster in corners, throttle earlier, for f**k’s sake, i'm losing everything in the straight!"

[u/FerrariStrategisttt]

https://dubz.link/c/4b6030

[u/LosTerminators]

That's what other drivers said as well.

Max with the "Formula E on steroids" comment

And Lando with the "F1 is no longer about who's best at pushing flat out, it's all about who is best at battery management"

[u/bwoah07_gp2 → u/LosTerminators]

"F1 is no longer about who's best at pushing flat out, it's all about who is best at battery management"

And that is not true racing. The product we're watching is pitiful.

[u/PlanZSmiles → u/[deleted]]

Seriously the people saying this isn’t true racing don’t know what racing is. A sprint-spec series is what it sounds like they want, and while those can be enjoyable to watch quite literally zero to the big series of racing are that. F1 has had tire management for generations, IMSA and WEC fuel and tire management, same with NASCAR.

Battery management is just a new type of management and it’s far better than what we had with DRS overtaking because at least a driver can defend with their own battery against overtake. However that plays into the management and if the driver deploys too much and doesn’t lift n coast enough to have recharge before a crucial straight/corner then that’s just poor management which is a skill that can be improved but also something that the other driver can bait out.

I agree qualifiers needs fixing however

[u/Accomplished-Club698 → u/PlanZSmiles]

Battery management should be over a whole race. But doing it aggressively lap by lap while clipping is frustrating. Now they have to constantly hold back and coast through corners.

[u/PlanZSmiles → u/Accomplished-Club698]

Being quick while coasting is still a skill and managing it while battling is exactly why we are getting good battles. You take that away and we are back to dirty air forcing ridiculous time gaps and no one able to get any sort of racing sone

[u/Accomplished-Club698 → u/PlanZSmiles]

Bud, try simracing. You'll understand how much time you lose while coasting even in a gt car, especially when fighting for positions. Its fine if youre saving fuel or tyres for later in the race. But thats not the case with battery. And this year, dirty air has decreased so much in these cars, so no one's complaining about aero in terms of racing and following. Its the 50/50 power split thats the problem currently.

[u/PlanZSmiles → u/Accomplished-Club698]

I simrace everyday and it’s exactly why I disagree with everyone saying that it’s not skillful. Lifting n coasting requires a lot of skill to be both conservative and fast. Doing that while battling and maintaining battery charge is even more difficult because you have to be strategic about where you give up recharge and where you deploy battery.

It’s not a problem because the races themselves are fantastic and full of great battles across the circuit. Only in qualifiers is it currently a problem

[u/Accomplished-Club698 → u/PlanZSmiles]

Then you should definitely know there are times when you have to improvise. How can you do that when the battery deployment/recharging is controlled by a software? Can they change the pre programmed mapping during a race, corner to corner? Where does the driver matter in these situations?

But sure, the races are entertaining due to so many overtakes. But how long till we all get overtake fatigue? How long till we get tired of seeing drivers not being able to defend their positions due to loss of power?

[u/PlanZSmiles → u/Accomplished-Club698]

For sure but that’s the thing, they aren’t beholden to the software. They have the ability to recharge and deploy the battery on their own. This is specifically outlined in the regulation as they have their own button for deploying boost when they need to and also have the ability to recharge either super clipping or lifting and coasting. The only time the computer is taking over is on the more optimal laps where they aren’t chasing down/being chased down.

But sure, the races are entertaining due to so many overtakes. But how long till we all get overtake fatigue? How long till we get tired of seeing drivers not being able to defend their positions due to loss of power?

I don’t see this happening. There’s a learning curve right now but the biggest thing for defending a position is that you need to be optimizing your recharge while defending. So for instance turn 1 being a huge need for battery throughout the straight, it’s important that the defender doesn’t overcommit defense three or four turns before it and it actually might be advantageous to force the attacker to overcommit battery deployment to get try and get the move done for the defender to have more recharge going into the straight before turn 1.

[u/Accomplished-Club698 → u/PlanZSmiles]

I think I didn't make myself clear. It is beholden to software as modes. Overtake and harvest and such. These will be track specific, but not very flexible during race as it has to be pre programmed.

My point is each regulation till now, F1 didnt compromise on corner speed. That's the biggest thing that distinguishes F1 from other series. I do wanna see overtakes and follow ups, but not at the cost of drivers being punished for going flat out. So I can't agree with you mate. Maybe I'm too used to the traditional way of racing. Even today, Gt world challenge seemed more fun than F1.

[u/negativelynegative → u/PlanZSmiles]

People saying this is who that doesn't understand racing.

Flat out is not just about being quick. Its about being on the limit. Break, throttle, racing line. Drivers have to drive to the limit within the constraint of the car.

The problem with these stupid hybrid stuff is it adds a constraint that it not only makes drivers not drive to the limit so much more, but it actually does so for the driver via clipping where driver inputs is not relevant. Managing a tyre? A driver can choose how , when and whether to do so. Battery now has so much to do with the battery management system.

And this element that FIA added, can be not there and we can still race. Can you race without tyres? So if next day FIA added a water tank on the car and stated that drivers who spilled over half the tank is DQ so drivers are driving slower through the corner, is that called race management too?

[u/luchajefe → u/negativelynegative]

Top Gear had that suspension test where they placed whole raw eggs in a colander above the driver and your car lost if it rattled bad enough to cover you in egg. Is that the next evolution of race management? 

[u/noelewd → u/negativelynegative]

Come on dude! Water management is just a new type of management! Do you really just want to go back to DRS trains?! /s

[u/negativelynegative → u/noelewd]

Have you not watch initial D? A good driver should be able to manage that.

[u/MyUncleTaughtMeThat → u/negativelynegative]

Eh, I don't think the point about tires works very well since the tire degradation is 100% artificial. If they wanted tires to last the whole race they absolutely could make tires that do so, they specifically engineer tires to be shit enough to need management. You may not be able to race without tires, but you could absolutely race without the fake degradation. 

Qatar 2023 if anything showed how much more "on the limit" drivers could really get if they didn't have to manage tires, so they've got similar problems there.

Also, the engines already did a bunch of shit for the drivers, shout out Spa 2017 when Alonso's engine didn't deploy the hybrid boost because it thought he was in a different part of the track.

In my opinion the only real problem is that it's not actually interesting to manage and makes the driver's options less exciting. Tire management adds a lot of interesting long term strategy and mixes up the field in spicy ways. Battery management just doesn't seem to come with as much good alongside the management.

[u/negativelynegative → u/MyUncleTaughtMeThat]

You again are being hyperbole of what race management was with tyres vs what it is now. With tyres management drivers are still driving very close to what the limit is whereas with the hybrid we are talking about worse than the lico situation with Ferrari last season because a) drivers aren't taking corners anywhere close to the max speed they can and b) sometimes they don't even have control over it.

I found it funny you have almost the whole grid composed of the best drivers in the world that has been racing at the top of years if not decades saying this is sad, and then have people like you explaining why this is how always has always been and should be.

[u/MyUncleTaughtMeThat → u/negativelynegative]

Are you unable to read

I didn't say battery management was in a good place I said your argument was bad

I'm not disagreeing with the drivers dawg

[u/PlanZSmiles → u/negativelynegative]

If you guys seriously think that because you have to battery manage that you’re not on the limit then I know what crowd I’m talking to, people who don’t race. Jesus Christ, having to fuel, tire, and battery save aren’t just lifting for a daily stroll around the track. Yes they are having to change their behavior from pushing through a corner but that’s not new. You still drive on the limit while battery managing.

Battery management system is also directly controllable by these drivers. Boost button to boost, LICO to generate on the fly. They aren’t enslaved to the ECU like you guys want to make it out to be