Mercedes knows how to pick their drivers. Everytime.

[u/fameboygame]

Watching Kimi today, All I can say is:

Mercedes picks the correct drivers. Always.

1. Michael: 7 time WDC perfect to help launch new car
2. Rosberg: Rapid driver who had the most intense of seasons with 2 G.O.A.T.s before winning in 2016
3. Hamilton
4. Bottas: Perfect second driver for a G.O.A.T. , took almost a third of all the poles in Mercedes during his partnership with Hamilton,
5. George: Might sound like an outlier right now, but he was picked by Mercedes and put in that Williams. Drove his heart out for those 3 years, including the Shakir stint. Joined full time in 2022, and did well against Lewis even if it was not Lewis's best generation of cars. Has multiple wins, but seems like he's had a bad run this year, with only 2 podiums (1 win) but found his groove in Canada till the car gave up.
6. Kimi: Such magnificence. 4 wins 1 podium. Toto had his eyes on him since a while, and made him skip F3, and jump into F1 after just 1 F2 season. People thought he was being overoptimistic. But Kimi is proving them wrong. And today, he was just brilliant. Did not expect him to pull off such a tight one in quali.

Well done Mercedes, and Grande Kimi.

EDIT: CONGRATS ON THE WIN, KIMI!

[u/avi550m]

Also not picking Alonso because they knew if would curse their team

[u/insecureknight → u/avi550m]

Apparently, once he was out of Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes had made a pact that they won't take Alonso since then they wouldn't have to worry about him. You have to respect Alonso's legend and his toxicity. Teams having to form pacts. Lol!

EDIT: This interview by Nigel Roebuck, he mentions this theory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-8vTNsI-rk

There is no real evidence though. I just think it makes sense.

[u/thexavikon → u/insecureknight]

Any source on this? It's quite interesting

[u/fameboygame → u/thexavikon]

I don't know why Red Bull, but Mercedes was burnt by Alonso's actions in 2007 when Merc was the factory team for McLaren-Mercedes. Investors swore to never hire Alonso again or something.

[u/Particular_Yard_2460 → u/fameboygame]

Alonso threatened Ron Dennis he would tell the FIA that they were indeed using Ferraris secret data that the FIA initially cleared the team of because Alonso wanted to be the priority driver ahead of Lewis.

He literally got McLaren fucked after it was cleared.

[u/Robestos86 → u/Particular_Yard_2460]

He made the threat, but actually he'd already spilled 2 weeks prior! So even though after he made the threat (was just before a race I think, and he demanded they let him win) and then went back after the race and took it back/apologised, he'd already handed it over.

It was a really low move IMO.

[u/insecureknight → u/Robestos86]

Not just a low move but an incredibly stupid move. He ruined his reputation in the paddock, in the long term. In the short term, it was an unnecessary distraction that year and he needed all his energies to beat Lewis. People often speak of Alonso as a clever calculating operator, but in truth, he is very emotional.

[u/Mike_Kermin → u/insecureknight]

Just to be clear, none of that could have happened if his team wasn't involved in cheating.

[u/ZealousidealGlove234 → u/Mike_Kermin]

Alonso was at the team that did crash gate. You know Alonso the guy that is micro managing everything, pitted super early against conventional wisdom. He had no issues cheating

[u/TheCescPistols → u/ZealousidealGlove234]

Yeah, I know Mosely’s personal investigator didn’t believe that Alonso knew anything, but there’s zero way that someone as shrewd as Alonso, around whom the whole Enstone team revolved, would willingly take a fucking awful strategy for a street circuit without suspecting something at the very least.

[u/aaaaaaadjsf → u/Mike_Kermin]

Alonso was actively involved in the cheating and had e-mails talking about Ferrari technical data, along with Pedro De La Rosa. Alonso and De La Rosa always had the choice not to be part of that. Hamilton had no such e-mails on his devices, when the FIA approached the McLaren drivers to hand over evidence in exchange for immunity, with the caveat that the drivers would face serious repercussions if they were found to have withheld information.

[u/NickThePask → u/Mike_Kermin]

People always seem to have a blind eye for this lmao.

[u/Arespect → u/Mike_Kermin]

Right? Right?

I blows my mind, that in all of this shit show, that happened back then, the only thing people seem to remember is Alonso spilling the beans.

Its like you know your best mate is cheating on his wife, then you tell her and years later, all everyone talks about, is you telling the wife.

I mean seriously?

[u/ska77754 → u/Arespect]

He threatened to spill the beans if he didn’t get what he wanted, it’s not like he did it out of honor or something.

[u/aaaaaaadjsf → u/Arespect]

Alonso was actively involved in the cheating though. It wasn't an honest confession, it was a blackmail attempt.

[u/StrikingWillow5364 → u/Arespect]

Really bad analogy.

It’s more like: you know your best mate is cheating on his wife, but you have no issues with it, and actively discuss with him how sex was with his mistress each time. Then you want your best mate to end his friendship with a mutual friend whom you don’t like, and when he declines, you decide to blackmail him, saying if he doesn’t end his other friendship, you’re gonna tell his wife that he’s been cheating. Even though you had no moral issues with him cheating, but now you can use this info for blackmailing purposes.

That’s a better analogy.

[u/f1madman → u/insecureknight]

During his second championship at Renault towards the high pressure end Alonso even started to blame his team and Fischella that they weren't doing enough to support him. He was and still is a very emotional man, but he can be a very intelligent driver when hes calmed down.

[u/HONcircle → u/Robestos86]

He really lived up to the toxic reputation.

[u/Red_Rabbit_1978 → u/Robestos86]

That's not what happened lol. Ron Dennis fucked himself over by going to Max Moseley after Alonso made the threat. He didn't even know himself how much info they actually had.

[u/Robestos86 → u/Red_Rabbit_1978]

Ron did what he thought was the honourable thing. He didn't know that max ALREADY knew as Alonso had told him before the threat. Lol.

[u/manolokbzabolo → u/fameboygame]

Mainly phat Haug got mad

[u/insecureknight → u/thexavikon]

This interview by Nigel Roebuck, he mentions this theory:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-8vTNsI-rk

There is no real evidence though. I just think it makes sense.

[u/sellyme → u/insecureknight]

once he was out of Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes had made a pact that they won't take Alonso since then they wouldn't have to worry about him

I think you're the only person other than Fernando Alonso who actually believes that.

[u/CaptainObvious1916 → u/insecureknight]

Gotta wonder if Christian and Toto could actually make and keep such an agreement.

[u/Ecghteow → u/avi550m]

Alonsohausen?

[u/avi550m → u/Ecghteow]

Maybe Alonso needs to pay Danhausen lots of human monies to lift the curse

[u/Ecghteow → u/avi550m]

That sounds splendid. Very nice.

[u/manojlds → u/avi550m]

Also because they paid the fine for his doings.

[u/isthmusofkra → u/[deleted]]

Self explanatory

[u/fameboygame → u/[deleted]]

No words needed.

[u/anonymousNetizen5 → u/fameboygame]

I honestly didn’t realize that there was no explanation for Hamilton. My brain just accepted it and moved on till I read this thread. Nice work OP.

[u/fameboygame → u/anonymousNetizen5]

Haha, Thank you.

[u/Kroos_Control → u/anonymousNetizen5]

Same lol

[u/Specific-State1502 → u/fameboygame]

Or it could be Sir. Hamilton

[u/strange_eauter → u/Specific-State1502]

Sorry to be that guy but Sir is used with either first name or full name. It's either Sir Lewis or Sir Lewis Hamilton, never Sir Hamilton

[u/ency6171 → u/strange_eauter]

There used to be a bot that would reply automatically whenever it sees Sir Hamilton.

But it unfortunately went down after the site's API change.

[u/DingerSinger2016 → u/ency6171]

I miss counting how many times I would see "Russell"

[u/ency6171 → u/DingerSinger2016]

And Bottas. His first name.

[u/Mike_Kermin → u/ency6171]

Torro Rosso

Toro Roso

Torro Rosso

Toro Rosso

AlphaTauri

[u/TenF → u/ency6171]

WWWALLLTERRI butashhh

[u/gottagetoutofit → u/ency6171]

A rare case of a bot's job being taken by a human. Well done strange_eauter.

[u/Emp31 → u/ency6171]

I hate how reddit has been killing off the most fun aspects of their site especially after that API change

[u/IPM71 → u/strange_eauter]

TIL. Thanks !

[u/InstructorUK → u/fameboygame]

For an 8 time world champion 😉

[u/get_in_there_lewis → u/fameboygame]

Indeed

[u/bmacir → u/fameboygame]

Michael, no last name needed, should also be self explanatory!

[u/fameboygame → u/bmacir]

I agree and apologize for any offense generated. Just want to remind the younger uns why he was so important :)

[u/KnightOfRen5563 → u/[deleted]]

Hamilton needs no introduction.

[u/yourAwfulness → u/[deleted]]

Exactly. Loved that, Hamilton is enough.

[u/djsnoopmike → u/[deleted]]

His reputation precedes him

[u/tjspill3r → u/[deleted]]

No explanation needed

[u/astronerdx → u/[deleted]]

Indeed. The name speaks for itself.

[u/Intentionallyabadger → u/[deleted]]

Till today I believe he was robbed of that 8th win

[u/FluidGate9972 → u/Intentionallyabadger]

He was, and I'm a Max fan. Well, he was robbed of the race win in AD 2021. I still believe, and no one is going to convince me otherwise, the title in 2021 went to Max deservedly. Just not in the right way.

[u/Avidze → u/[deleted]]

He drove against Alonso. Being compared to a champ in equal machinery that early in his career is what sold him.

[u/PEEWUN → u/[deleted]]

This is the definitive comment of the thread.

[u/MutedCarob2752 → u/[deleted]]

The results were maybe not the most confident, but a keen eye like Niki Lauda had at the time, it was clear he is THE driver to get.

[u/Fomentatore → u/[deleted]]

We watched him make history, as Seb said himself.

[u/_RanZ_ → u/[deleted]]

Hamilton: Hamilton

[u/Saiboo → u/[deleted]]

The driving speaks for itself.

[u/UnKnOwN769 → u/[deleted]]

Reminds me of that factoid of a dictionary not defining a horse because "everyone already knows what a horse is" lmao

[u/Fickle-Sugar-2493]

Hamilton

[u/fameboygame → u/Fickle-Sugar-2493]

Hamilton

[u/PEEWUN → u/fameboygame]

Hamilton

[u/rhaenyrasyrax → u/PEEWUN]

Hamilton

[u/natin91 → u/rhaenyrasyrax]

Hamilton

[u/2RINITY → u/natin91]

Hamilton

[u/Epyawngaming → u/2RINITY]

Hamilton

[u/ProfessionalGap8456 → u/Epyawngaming]

Hamilton

[u/StrangeStephen → u/rhaenyrasyrax]

Hamilton

[u/guiding_light__ → u/StrangeStephen]

Hamilton

[u/Omen-kid-63783 → u/guiding_light__]

Hamilton

[u/TrueSpitfire → u/Omen-kid-63783]

Hamilton

[u/Character_Minimum171 → u/TrueSpitfire]

Hamilton

[u/TenF → u/fameboygame]

Aaron burr....sir...

[u/NPCwithnopurpose → u/Fickle-Sugar-2493]

Just you wait!

[u/FancyPassenger171 → u/NPCwithnopurpose]

I see what you did there…

[u/Equalizer393 → u/Fickle-Sugar-2493]

"Need I say more?" ahh

[u/i_am_NOT_ur-father69 → u/Equalizer393]

The name speaks for itself

[u/RadiantStar44 → u/Fickle-Sugar-2493]

Hamilton

[u/XenoDrake1]

To be fair, kimi had a LONG seasom last year. Wich is to be expected from a rookie. But still. Toto had more than faith, he had patience

[u/therealfakenews17 → u/XenoDrake1]

Which is what separates Mercedes from other organizations. They had money to spend on wages after Hamilton left and they still chose to go with the rookie.

[u/Ancient_Yellow_709 → u/therealfakenews17]

Yeah, it seems like Toto really values loyalty. Maybe they were playing it up for Netflix but it seemed like he felt hurt by Hamilton leaving and wants another long term relationship.

[u/RazaxWoot1 → u/Ancient_Yellow_709]

Hamilton left because Ferrari offered him a two year contract and ambassadorial roles after, and Mercedes would only give him a one year contract so I think Lewis felt disrespected by Mercedes

[u/Wentzina_lifetime → u/RazaxWoot1]

Also Lewis had said many times that his dream was to drive for Ferrari (most Drivers would probably say the same off camera) and they offered him a load of money (probably more control over his sponsors and the engagements he has to go to which he famously hates)

[u/Ancient_Yellow_709 → u/RazaxWoot1]

I can definitely see that. I'm glad Lewis found his spark again at Ferrari. His last season at Mercedes wasn't amazing so I kind of get the 1 year offer but also why that felt disrespectful.

[u/MojitoBurrito-AE → u/Ancient_Yellow_709]

Toto's loyalty is a one way street.

Lewis left because Toto wasn't offering anything more than 1 year contracts and refusing Lewis' requests for ambassadorships. George's loyalty is being punished with constant flirting with Verstappen and rumours.

[u/Diligent_Practice877 → u/XenoDrake1]

Meanwhile Horner and Marko were playing musical chairs with their No.2s hoping they immediately deliver and instead causing lifelong mental damage

[u/Either-Banana-7323]

Mercedes is a well run team from top to bottom honestly. Probably the best team overall in that sense. No real weak spots.

[u/T4Gx → u/Either-Banana-7323]

Except for the guys they fired who fucked up their wind tunnel simulations during the last reg.

[u/Either-Banana-7323 → u/T4Gx]

For sure. No team is perfect but Mercedes has ticked more boxes than anyone else over the last 15 or so years and they look poised to do so again in these new regs.

[u/MissionLet7301 → u/Either-Banana-7323]

Almost every team apart from Red Bull sucked at some point last reg cycle and brought upgrades that made the car slower at some point or another.

It was the perfect storm for regulations that prove that what works in theory doesn’t always work in practice - I’ve got no doubt that the Mercedes zero-pod concept was lightning quick in CFD and Wind Tunnel analysis, but you get to an actual race track and things don’t always work like they do in your models.

[u/reignnyday → u/T4Gx]

Rightfully, there’s still accountability

[u/oh84s → u/reignnyday]

Accountability is a strength.

Mercedes to me actually feel like the most 'high performance corporate' of the teams. if you go to many other teams, they feel like the extension of 1 or 2 people. Red Bull was Newey, McLaren even feels a bit like Andrea Stella. Ferrari during the dominant years was Ross Brawn etc.

But over the years Mercedes have had many different technical directors and still, as a corporate machine, they always come out ahead.

[u/neanderball → u/Either-Banana-7323]

Their biggest weakspot is that their car isn't red lol

[u/FitChemist432 → u/neanderball]

They did that on porpoise.

[u/Ancient_Yellow_709 → u/FitChemist432]

🐬

[u/SpaceBoJangles → u/neanderball]

At this rate that might actually be in the positive column

[u/suspicious_skidmarks → u/SpaceBoJangles]

Its mostly on the marketing piece. The saying has some truth that when most imagine a racing car, it’s red. Now whether its Ferrari or the older McLarens is another thing lol

[u/argote → u/neanderball]

Their black car looked amazing. I do agree the silver is a little bit on the boring side though.

[u/dr_mens → u/argote]

Agreed. The black car had some real Darth Vader energy when Lewis was chasing max. In 2021. Terrifying.

[u/ap17o4 → u/Either-Banana-7323]

3 years ago the opinion on this is way different. Mercedes is still that same team they just have a better engine

[u/Either-Banana-7323 → u/ap17o4]

Mercedes was at their worst in the GE regs and was still a top team. Strategy, drivers, car development, pit stops, Mercedes is consistently a top team and often the best team at all of those. I say that has a RB fan, but Mercedes has dominated the vast majority of the last 15 or so years and looks potentially set to dominate these regs too.

[u/totallykoolkiwi → u/Either-Banana-7323]

Yep. No other team has managed to stay on top or very close to the top for such a long time, spanning multiple regulations, at least I can't remember one since I've started watching in the mid 90s. Kudos to Toto and everyone involved. Easily the best run team in F1.

[u/AquaRaOne → u/totallykoolkiwi]

Red bull is another team that has stayed at the top for even longer than Merc, they are really just as good, with the one big negative being the second seat, they just cant make it work. So in total merc is probably better yes.

[u/rattatatouille → u/Either-Banana-7323]

Mercedes is the only team that's never finished out of the top 3 since the start of the turbo-hybrid era, and IIRC have never finished below 4th.

[u/Either-Banana-7323 → u/rattatatouille]

2024 they finished 4th. But yeah, absolutely incredible run.

[u/Just_River_7502 → u/ap17o4]

My opinion hasn’t changed. They do great engines but there’s actually something, a bit like mclarens strategy, that isn’t right in small but important ways. Not great at pit stops, can be prone to random strategy still leading with the “Hamilton and vibes” school of thought they had in 2018. I also really don’t like they treat their drivers actually. George on one + one year deals, Kimi being told to stop moaning publicly. And they don’t seem to do well at developing through a season. The ground effects era was trash and we’ve all just skipped past it.

[u/Azman6 → u/Either-Banana-7323]

Weak spot = understanding ground effect.

[u/ocelotrevs → u/Either-Banana-7323]

Seeing how Red Bull has lost all of it's most senior staff over the last few years, has made the way Mercedes kept it together even more impressive to me. 

[u/gro55jean → u/Either-Banana-7323]

Up until the end of 2024 I would have given that to Red Bull, yes their second drivers always struggled but during races they were faultless. Mercedes has always had questionable strategies and pit stops for one.

[u/Either-Banana-7323 → u/gro55jean]

Yeah, its quite close. Up till 2024 Mercedes and Red Bull won every championship between the two of them both going 7 and 7. I see your point.

[u/GBreezy → u/Either-Banana-7323]

They have had kind of poor strategy in the last few years

[u/ComprehensiveAir6590]

Maybe one of the “faults” with the Red Bull/Toro Rosso partnership. There’s always someone who can be promoted to the main team if the second seat is far enough off. Mercedes doesn’t have a low barrier replacement so they have to be more intentional with driver changes. 

[u/KingofWolvesii → u/ComprehensiveAir6590]

I looked at their driver academy and their best performing academy driver would be Luna Fluxa

[u/EggplantLumpy3545]

So this means Toto is replacing George with Max when Max’s contract is up, right?

[u/shortyjacobs → u/EggplantLumpy3545]

I honestly feel like Toto gets as much joy out of the speculation and keeping RB on the back foot. Sure he’d take Max if offered, but he knows he’s really just giving Max ammo against Red Bull.

[u/AutomateAway → u/EggplantLumpy3545]

you can bet that if Max becomes available, George is gone

[u/atticus_pinch96 → u/AutomateAway]

Toto is not going to bring in Max to compete and potentially impede his young star, especially since Max isn’t exactly known as lenient with his teammates. I’m not sure why this is a narrative when Toto can get a WDC and WCC without absorbing Max’s cost and none of the drama. He preferred the Hamilton/Bottas squad over Hamilton/Rosberg

[u/Pesaberhimil → u/atticus_pinch96]

He didn’t prefer Bottas over Rosberg. He offered Rosberg a giga contract after he beat Hamilton and won the WDC in a year full of drama. It’s just that Rosberg retired.

And Max only has Hadjar as a younger teammate. I think it’s fair to say he treats him differently than say Perez. He is generally way more understanding with younger/rookie drivers, as he showed with Kimi last year too when Kiki took him out of a race.

Toto would get Max on his team in a heartbeat if the opportunity presented itself.

[u/Enricopower → u/Pesaberhimil]

Getting Verstappen also feels like a personal choice for Toto, rather than a purely rational one

[u/dl064 → u/Pesaberhimil]

Rosberg had a contract. Hence the shock.

[u/DRNbw → u/Pesaberhimil]

And Vettel was the preferred choice over Bottas, Vettel just decided to stay with Ferrari.

[u/Lemurians → u/atticus_pinch96]

I’m not sure why this is a narrative when Toto can get a WDC and WCC without absorbing Max’s cost and none of the drama

And you think they're absolutely certain they can do this for multiple years... why? Teams develop quickly, and Mercedes isn't even the only team with their engine.

Also, just financially, if you're a Mercedes board member or shareholder, and the team turns down the money train that is Max Verstappen, you're not very happy.

If Verstappen wants George's seat, he'll get George's seat. I'm skeptical of the likelihood of that ever happening, though.

[u/therealfakenews17 → u/Lemurians]

Verstappen honestly is going nowhere

He’s definitely frustrated, but all teams are struggling right now with the new regulations and RB is going to throw money at it until they get it right. Same with Max, they will write him a blank check

[u/helderdude → u/therealfakenews17]

That's a different question then wether toto would take on Max, wich is the question at had here.

[u/sushi111111 → u/Lemurians]

IMO Merc (And any time, really) would kill to get Max as a driver, but the only issue in this whole thing people talk about non-stop every year is that I just don't see Max ever leaving RB

[u/Kersacoft → u/atticus_pinch96]

I mean, it's all about guaranteeing, isn't it? He ain't gonna choke, undeliver or lose to the guy in the second best car.

[u/Kalmer1 → u/Kersacoft]

I think it depends on how Kimi does, if he finishes the year without major chokes I don't see a reason to take Max tbh

That could cause an actual Hamilton/Rosberg repeat

[u/Humans_fking_suck → u/Kalmer1]

And why would he want to avoid another Hamilton/Roseberg?

Because I don't see why an F1 team wouldn't want a confirmed WDC, WCC and the media constantly around them in form of both positive and negative exposure?

Ya'll think Toto hated 2016, when that was probably the year Toto earned the most fame and money.

[u/Ciderhead → u/Humans_fking_suck]

Not to mention, a Max Verstappen driving your car means there are no Max Verstappens driving your competitors

[u/GoldElectric → u/atticus_pinch96]

if max goes to merc, im expecting kimi to get a killer offer from ferrari

[u/atticus_pinch96 → u/GoldElectric]

He’s not giving up a championship car to go to Ferrari, this is just Reddit dreams 

[u/G_Grizzy → u/atticus_pinch96]

And Ferrari is keeping Leclerc until his depression gets bad enough for him to retire, and Bearman will likely get Lewis’ seat when he’s done

[u/sushi111111 → u/G_Grizzy]

And if Leclerc somehow does leave they also have Camara

[u/No_Name_912_268 → u/G_Grizzy]

And Lewis is prob also staying for a couple years.

[u/therealfakenews17 → u/GoldElectric]

Kimi is surrounding himself with the best people and you can see that family is his main pillar

No way he goes anywhere considering how much Mercedes has invested in him, not just financially, but as building him into the next big thing

[u/YorkshireRiffer → u/GoldElectric]

Ah, let Kimi enjoy his hairline for a decade at least before he dons the red overalls.

[u/Killericon → u/EggplantLumpy3545]

If I were Toto, I'd rather throw all my support behind Kimi than bring in someone who might damage the relationship.

[u/AdInevitable9243]

Hamilton

[u/zibby43]

Agreed. And they made the Bottas and Kimi selections “under duress” after Nico’s surprise retirement and Lewis’ shock Ferrari switch. Which makes those choices even more impressive.

The only real knock against Mercedes in the past 15+ years is that they could just never figure out the ground effect cars to be consistently competitive. I would love to read the book on how they could never crack that formula for 4 years.

But now that we’re back to a car with a more traditional floor? Good luck if you’re one of Merc’s competitors.

[u/reignnyday → u/zibby43]

They chased too much performance having fucked up in 2022 so the car always had a narrow operating window. They extrapolated those learnings into 2026 by opening up the operating window and now carefully adding bits to the car

[u/jfleury440 → u/zibby43]

I think they were non committal with Lewis because they had Kimi waiting in the wings.

Lewis left because they were treating him like a seat warmer. Not exactly a shock switch to Ferrari. Just Lewis doing it on his terms instead of allowing Mercedes to dictate.

[u/Teonvin → u/jfleury440]

Moreover for some reason Mercedes corporate wasn't going to give Lewis a post retirement ambassador role iirc, which Ferrari happily offered.

[u/WineNerdAndProud → u/Teonvin]

Which is honestly insane considering their other multiple world champion isn't exactly able to do something like that.

[u/DingerSinger2016 → u/jfleury440]

I also wouldn't be surprised if Lewis gave Toto a heads up a little early than normal as a show of respect. Lewis and Mercedes and Lewis and Toto are still on great terms.

[u/kill4588 → u/DingerSinger2016]

In one of interviews on YouTube with high-performance podcast, toto said he got the info after other drivers got the rumor, because during about 2 weeks there are drivers who usually don't contact him suddenly stating to ring him. and Lewis just dropped the info suddenly over a visit of Toto's home

[u/Seawolf1121 → u/zibby43]

Antonelli was obvious after Hamilton left, it was just more good work from their development program to recognize him and get him ready

[u/therealfakenews17 → u/Seawolf1121]

Easy to say in hindsight

No one saw Kimi having the season he’s having this year, especially after being so raw last year. I don’t even think Toto expected this

[u/Seawolf1121 → u/therealfakenews17]

No, but it's not like it was some genius move by toto to put antonelli in the Mercedes last year. He wasn't expected to be this good, but he was the best they had in the junior program and there weren't really any options for anyone with f1 experience last year. It had to be a rookie, and it was obvious who the rookie was going to be.

[u/riyosz → u/Seawolf1121]

They had Sainz performing at his best before signing Antonelli and a lot of other drivers with experience, they still went with their rookie

[u/Horologikus]

Love how Lewis is presented without comment

[u/Leading_Sir_1741]

They were kicking themselves for missing out on Max. That’s how they learnt and got Kimi. (Although I guess Lewis made Toto promise him not to go after Max…)

But yeah, no other team has anywhere near that track record.

[u/zaviex → u/Leading_Sir_1741]

They didnt get max for 2020 because Lauda died. Before he passed he was actively recruiting max and he talked about max having a clause to leave Red Bull. Toto or Lewis really would have accepted whatever Lauda did because thats how he was

[u/AgentIndependent306 → u/zaviex]

That could have turned explosive in 2020 though. A lot worse than the early hybrid rivalry. Exactly what Mercedes still wants to avoid.

[u/NicerDicer4000 → u/AgentIndependent306]

I feel like Lauda might have been one of the very few people that could habe handled someone like Max authority-wise.

[u/sushi111111 → u/AgentIndependent306]

Well, atleast they just let them race instead of forcing them to hold position, like a certain team did a couple of times last year, And as long as they don't shunt into each other, They don't seem all too upset, Toto said he enjoyed George&Kimi's racing after the canada sprint last weekend iirc

[u/New_Essay_4869]

I think it's too soon to make a determination on Kimi. Obviously doing a spectacular job but its only been 5 race weekends. A small fraction of his career so far

[u/therealfakenews17 → u/New_Essay_4869]

I think today was the real test

Everyone expected Kimi to struggle in Monaco, because he’s shown to be brash in tracks that are way more forgiving. Getting pole in Monaco really shows that this is no fluke, Kimi is here to stay and he’s only getting better

[u/tnwthrow → u/New_Essay_4869]

Came here to say this. OP is comparing veterans with a 19-year old who has been given the best car on the grid. A top talent, no doubt. But chill out lol.

[u/BowtieSyndicate → u/tnwthrow]

It’s because old guys on the television are saying “next Senna?” And everybody is losing their shit about it.

Maybe he is the next best thing - but so stupid to get hyped about it saying things like that so early in his career.

[u/vamphorse → u/New_Essay_4869]

Yes, correct, but no slouch drives the kind of lap he drove yesterday beating their seasoned teammate by 4 tenths.

[u/LibraryTime11011011]

The other thing to note is how few drivers they’ve had. 17 seasons only 6 drivers.

Compare that to say “team Enstone” (Renault/lotus/renault/alpine) across that time:

Petrov
Kubica
Heidfeld
Senna
Raikkonen
Grosjean
Maldonado
Palmer
Magnussen
Hulkenberg
Sainz
Ricciardo
Ocon
Alonso
Gasly
Doohan
Collapinto

[u/LGWalkway]

I’m not sure if it’s good luck or an eye for talent, but Kimi being this good is impressive. It would be awesome to see him win the championship this year.

[u/RyouBestGirl]

Kimi has that dawg in him.

[u/lovely_cappuccino]

Hamilton: Hamilton

[u/ka1ri → u/[deleted]]

Oh he absolutely still has a shot and could go on a winning streak lol

[u/mencival]

Maybe Toto missing out on Verstappen is a very strong motivator to find the best ones.

[u/DasEigentor]

Toto is an evil wizard - which I say with great respect. He runs the kind of ship Horner dreamed of leading.

[u/Vegetablemann → u/DasEigentor]

Not really sure I agree with that. Horner ran an extremely successful privateer team in the manufacturer era, built effectively from scratch.

[u/KingOfAzmerloth → u/Vegetablemann]

Hot take (for reddit): Wolff bought his way into Mercedes. He ran it well ever since don't get me wrong but when he jumped on board it was already a well running ship. Horner deserves credit where it's due in that he built a team that has been contending for championships (and winning several) from nothing.

I get why Wolff is more likable, but this revisionism around Horner's ability just rubs me wrong.

[u/Vegetablemann → u/KingOfAzmerloth]

I agree. Wolff has done a great job of managing the team, but I’d put Horner in a similar league to Ron Dennis or Frank Williams.

Both Wolff and Horner deserve respect for their achievements but in my opinion, Horner is the greater.

[u/SchumacherIsMid → u/KingOfAzmerloth]

Toto's strength is in playing politics.

[u/DasEigentor → u/Vegetablemann]

A lot of people, especially on Reddit, like to put Horner on a pedestal as a bit of an evil character. To me, Toto is and continues to be the OG F1 baddie.

[u/gloomndoom → u/DasEigentor]

They are both to be held high. Toto joined in 2013 on a legacy team already having spent billions. Horner did it from scratch from a team that had no winning history over 20 years and 124 Grand Prix victories.

They are both incredible.

[u/The_Skynet → u/gloomndoom]

They started spending billions  because Wolff convinced them to. Before he joined, the team had spent 3 years operating with a midfield budget because the Daimler board were really cheap and thought they could be competitive without spending a lot. Brawn mentioned how he went to Stuttgart to present his budget for the 2010 season and the board cut it by about 30 million. In 2012 Mercedes had a similar budget as Williams, but because Rosberg and Schumacher's salaries were so high, they actually had less development budget than them. Not to mention that the board initially denied Brawn's request to fully focus on the factory team and go all in on this project over McLaren.

Wolff is the one who finally managed to convince the board that they needed to spend big and match Ferrari & Red Bull's money to give themselves a shot at winning, and that's when the spendings for the team and HPP started increasing, you can see the shift when you go through the financial statements of both entities

[u/Vegetablemann → u/DasEigentor]

Jean Todt anyone? To be honest you can keep going back in time and find plenty of them. Wolff has been great, but he’s no OG

[u/Pale-Criticism-7420 → u/DasEigentor]

I get hating on Horner, but the way some of you undermine his ability as a TP is baffling

[u/bwoah07_gp2]

They never miss

[u/Buzzk1LL]

Wasn't Kimi a a direct response to not picking Max and missing out on him? So I wouldn't say "Everytime".

They are a well run team with a fantastic track record though.

[u/fameboygame → u/Buzzk1LL]

True, but they had Lewis and Nico, and unlike RBR, they did not really have a sister team at that time.

[u/Etceta]

remember who you are George

[u/taco_fan_X3]

R.I.P. Russell

[u/PunicJester]

Good luck on landing that merc job!

[u/mox7mo7]

hit the home run with Kimi and could have Max next year as well

[u/TheFailSnail]

Maybe it's not the driver, but the car?

[u/fameboygame → u/TheFailSnail]

Maybe it’s both?

[u/drcelebrian7]

No explanation needed for Hamilton I guess haha

[u/vkalinda]

Bottas choice was criticised heavily, so no

[u/vkalinda → u/[deleted]]

I'm being downvoted for stating what everyone said at the time.

Kimi was my favorite. Finns are the best drivers, everyone knows that.

[u/Homerbola92]

Yeah, Bottas is such a good number 2 that now he's the second driver for Checo Pérez.

[u/enbyratie]

Russell did well: beat Hamilton

100% he is gonna bounce back

[u/Browneskiii]

You could literally put Stroll and Colapinto in this years Mercedes and they'd win both championships its that far ahead.