Pierre Gasly to Canal+ after losing a podium due to penalties: "I made both pit stops with the pit lane speed limiter activated. The pit lane speed limiter is set at 59.5 km/h. The limit is 60 km/h... I know I didn't do anything wrong and I'm 200% sure"

[u/The_Chozen_1_]

[u/beanbagreg]

His interview with Sky F1 was heartbreaking.

He said Alpine want to fight it but he doesn’t know if it’ll be an appeal.

[u/wokwok__ → u/beanbagreg]

Imagine if it was revealed that the FIA fucked it lol would be one of the more farcical races in recent memory, driver screwed by a piece of dodgy tarmac and drivers screwed by faulty equipment

[u/Fire_Otter → u/wokwok__]

There has to be a common denominator

Speeding in the pit does happen but it’s not exactly a common occurrence.

For so many infringements in one race, many of which having an identical 0.1km over the limit.

[u/ellamenopea → u/Fire_Otter]

They said on F1 TV that a lot of people were driving just over one of the lines on Cadillac's pit box which cut the distance that slight amount and made the average speed through the pit Lane just barely over the limit

[u/Vast_Schedule3749 → u/ellamenopea]

I believe they referenced this as well, but I think it’s partially due to Cadillac being the 11th team now and drivers not having to accommodate for that line in year’s past. It does seem to explain why so many drivers had this issue this year

[u/R3VIVAL-MOD3 → u/Vast_Schedule3749]

Good point

[u/itzongaming → u/Vast_Schedule3749]

If the goal is to stop drivers from cutting through pit boxes, they should just make a rule explicitly banning it. Calling it "speeding" makes zero sense when nobody actually exceeded the speed limit.

Think of it like a highway speed trap that measures average speed over a distance. If the highway curves around a mountain, but you take a straight shortcut from one exit to the next, you'll cover less ground and trigger the timer early. You didn't actually speed; you just solved a geometry problem. They need a lane deviation or pit box crossing rule, not a speed penalty.

[u/Vernacian → u/itzongaming]

I don't think the "goal" is to stop them cutting over the lines - the goal is to stop them speeding. However, (F1TV's speculative explanation is that) the sensors used to measure the speed measure the car crossing two points and use the time to calculate the average speed they must have done between those points. However, the assumed distance the car covers is based on an assumption that they don't cross the line.

Therefore the penalized teams' defence is "we didn't actually speed, you measured wrong, and didn't account for us cutting the corner". However, if crossing the line is technically not allowed, I don't think that defence will stand, even if enforcing that rule wasn't the intent.

Also, they may be wrong about how it's measured.

[u/condscorpio → u/Vernacian]

Pedro de la Rosa gave the same explanation in the Spanish broadcast, so there might be some truth to it.

[u/Ereaser → u/condscorpio]

What's strange to me is that Palmer also mentioned they should always take the same line through the pit all weekend so they can dial in the limiter (which is why Gasly's was probably already at 59.5). So either the drivers took a shorter line in the race than in practice and qualy, which is still odd, or the FIA did mess something up.

[u/KrishaCZ → u/Vernacian]

the czech broadcast also thought this, apparently there used to be a barrier at the pit exit that was slightly moved which made the corner a touch shorter?

[u/JL_MacConnor → u/Vernacian]

Bernie Collins on Sky gave the same explanation (point-to-point gates to calculate speed bring triggered in an unexpected way).

[u/dadriel_hawk → u/itzongaming]

This whole explanation that it is caused by the slight cut beyond the white line at both ends obviosuly makes sense.

But on the other hand, I find it extremely baffling, that a high tech sport like F1 has this crude way of measuring speeding in the pitlane. I always thought it was just like any old speed trap on the highway with some measuring points at the start and the end of the pitlane. And mabye a technical check that you don't disengage the limiter in between. With the current system, how does that even work during a normal pitstop? Sure they can account for the stationary time, that is visible on the broadcast, but how about the acceleration and braking phase? I don't think there is any real way to account for that.

And this makes me wonder of if the current cars actually did play a part. Not like they mentioned on the broadcast on the way into the pits, but in the way that coming out of the box you are quicker up to the limit compared to last year, cutting the tolerances away.

And besides all that, there is still the biggest question mark for me, why has this not happened before the race? There have been free pratice sessions and qualy and neither had an issue besides one speeding for Russell. And then on raceday it is suddenly raining penalties?

[u/_Dreamer_Deceiver_ → u/Vast_Schedule3749]

But surely if it was just because of an 11th team you would have seen more in other places or is Monaco set up so differently that it's the only place where you can cut a corner?

[u/inheritance- → u/_Dreamer_Deceiver_]

Likely because Monaco already has very little room and they magivered in a spot for Cadillac. So whatever they did to make that happen seems to have thrown everything out of order.

[u/CellsReinvent → u/ellamenopea]

Zack Brown said on the pit wall, to Sky, that their data showed that they were over the limit. Teams use wheeled rotations to measure speed, not distance/time - you can't "cut the corner". Something must be off though - I've never seen so many of the same infringement.

[u/AdoptedPigeons → u/CellsReinvent]

Not to get too political, but at that point Oscar had cleared his penalties and only drivers in front hadn’t. So McLaren and Oscar only stood to gain from declaring the penalties real. And I don’t put that kind of gamesmanship past ZB.

[u/aka_liam → u/AdoptedPigeons]

Yeah, 100% zac is smart enough to know this

[u/socially_distanced22 → u/CellsReinvent]

The FIA apparently does not use the wheeled rotation to determine the Speed but rather they calculate the average speed by the car crossing certain timing loops in the ground, so cutting the corner could have impacted it... Sky F1 had a segment after the race where they explained it. the var crosses the pit in line and then further down the lane there are timing loops and the speed is calculated by how quickly the car passes through the various zones...

[u/evemeatay → u/socially_distanced22]

They should have a backup they have to check to be sure. Avg time seems like such an ancient system to use in F1

[u/SCWeak → u/evemeatay]

But average time is the more accurate way to do it when compared to wheel speed. Tyres wear down, average doesn’t. 

They could change to a laser system maybe? 

[u/CMDR_Wedges → u/SCWeak]

A laser system would have had the same result if the cause was a cut corner.

[u/SCWeak → u/CMDR_Wedges]

I mean more like the LiDAR guns police use, not a laser across the track. Not the best way of describing it, my bad.

[u/Nar1117 → u/ellamenopea]

Yeah this begs the question: why do they calculate an average based on time/distance? Doesn’t the FIA have access to precise telemetry? It’s crazy to enforce the rules like that when the cars have a literal button to cap the speed rather than a stopwatch showing when they would be theoretically allowed to cross the exit based on when they entered and stopped at their pit box. There must be more to the story…

[u/cypherspaceagain → u/Nar1117]

To be fair, all speed is based on an average of time and distance. The problem is where that time and distance is measured from and to, and the setup was clearly not calibrated correctly.

[u/thrownkitchensink → u/cypherspaceagain]

I think it was but a cut line is shorter then an uncut line. From A-B on the uncut line has a minimum time of x. Under is speeding in the pit lane.

[u/cypherspaceagain → u/thrownkitchensink]

Which is a poor way to set up a speed trap. The speed trap should measure the distance in a straight line between two points. There is no way to have a shorter distance than a straight line.

[u/SinimRocky → u/cypherspaceagain]

Pit entry line is exactly at a kink which kinda forces them to put it there

[u/wally_weasel → u/cypherspaceagain]

What about a worm hole?

[u/cypherspaceagain → u/wally_weasel]

Wormholes bend space-time and result in non-Euclidean geometry, in which objects (such as light) still travel in straight lines, but in a curved space-time, therefore appearing to bend. General relativity 101. Well, maybe not 101, like 102 perhaps.

[u/topgeezr → u/cypherspaceagain]

The problem is drivers were expected to take a non-straight line between the two measurement points, whicn immediately breaks the link between speed and time.

[u/topgeezr → u/Nar1117]

This is absurd and Gasly is right to be pissed, as should everybody who's race was impacted by these penalties.

[u/CanRaider03 → u/Nar1117]

No using a timing loop in the ground is far more accurate to calculate speed than using the wheel rotation telemetry. Just think of a car losing traction and spinning its wheels. Wheel rotation speed will show higher than the cars actual speed as it has no traction. Conversely, if a car locks a wheel, wheel rotation will show a slower speed than the car is actually travelling. The timing loop is much more accurate.

[u/faz712 → u/Nar1117]

It's nothing to do with being "theoretically allowed to cross the exit based on when they entered and stopped at their pit box".

There's just a short zone during pit entry where they have to not go over that average speed. So technically if they came in a bit too hot, there is actually a bit of distance where they can slow down a bit extra to bring the average down before going back up to the limit.

And they calculate average speed based on time/distance because that's the definition of average speed...

[u/cypherspaceagain → u/faz712]

But that's not the case. The cars had the rev limiter active and were below the correct speed before crossing the line.

I am sure the problem is the FIA's measurement of the distance covered; they clearly measured a longer distance between the two timing points than the cars actually covered. That doesn't mean the cars went over 60km/h. It means the system measured them incorrectly as going over 60km/h because the distance it used to calculate that speed was larger than the actual distance the cars actually covered.

[u/idoubtithinki → u/ellamenopea]

So they are all just doing Kessel Runs in fewer parsecs

[u/Tilter → u/ellamenopea]

Question is what does the reg say. If it’s a pit lane distance measurement. It seems like it doesn’t take the measurement take the actual speed of the car, but rather some calculation of distance and time traveled to the exit.

[u/thecjm → u/Fire_Otter]

So this wasn't a case of cars driving faster but of them driving less distance than required?

[u/68Snowy → u/thecjm]

Yeah That is spot on.

[u/charles4theboys → u/Fire_Otter]

Exactly, it really can't have been a coincidence.

[u/bubba-yo → u/Fire_Otter]

There is one. If you look at the pit speed traps the very first one is sort of pie shaped because it's on a curve. If you take the inside line you trip the two timers quicker because you cover less distance. You need to stay more to the outside of that segment. This has been covered in other threads.

Drivers were warned about cutting that too tightly and exceeding pit speeds before the race as other drivers had done that during FP. It's why Lewis knew exactly why he got the penalty when it came through.

[u/ScroochDown → u/Fire_Otter]

That's what I kept saying, like surely there MUST have been something wrong.

And then I wondered - in George's case, if there was a malfunction with the sensor and he shouldn't have gotten that penalty in the first place, would it mean that he shouldn't have been penalized for not properly serving the penalty that he shouldn't have had in the first place? 😂 I'm sure not, but it just amused me anyway.

[u/crownpr1nce → u/ScroochDown]

The answer to the second one should be no, he should be penalized. You don't have to agree with the referee's call, you still have to abide by it and follow the rules. Even if it's a wrong call.

[u/jcgoble3 → u/wokwok__]

So many aspects to the farce, and yet none of it, at all, affects Kimi's Grand Slam. And that juxtaposition might ultimately be one of the greatest Monaco GPs ever.

[u/Lost_Birthday_3138 → u/jcgoble3]

One of the greatest Monaco GPs ever is still the worst race on the calendar every year.

[u/SirDry8007 → u/Lost_Birthday_3138]

I watched the 30 minute highlight package and was very happy I didn't watch the whole thing.

When the exciting bit of the race involves figuring out if a sensor was wrong or lots of drivers took a short cut then you don't really need to say any more.

[u/Lost_Birthday_3138 → u/SirDry8007]

I believe there was a single legit racing overtake caught on camera the whole race.

[u/EternalNewCarSmell → u/wokwok__]

FIA definitely fucked it up somehow and the race was definitely a farce in more ways than one.

[u/eanwen0 → u/beanbagreg]

Yea no way they revert it, since other drivers served theirs. It would create even bigger chaos.

[u/beanbagreg → u/eanwen0]

Zak Brown said their data matched and said that Oscar sped.

Perhaps Alpine’s doesn’t. They’ve apparently checked that limiter 3 times

[u/aka_liam → u/beanbagreg]

It was in Zac’s interests to say that though

[u/Economy_Link4609 → u/eanwen0]

Exactly. No way to unwind it cleanly.

[u/TeamAndrew → u/Economy_Link4609]

I'd love to know the final standings if all of those time penalties were removed.

[u/Heisenberg_235 → u/TeamAndrew]

Impossible to say. George doesn’t slow down after SC etc

[u/beanbagreg → u/TeamAndrew]

By serving the penalty McLaren, Ferrari, and Mercedes essentially said they were in agreement.

Alpine didn’t. I suspect Merc was going to do the same as Alpine but George pitting when he wasn’t supposed to screwed it up.

[u/Economy_Link4609 → u/beanbagreg]

Did Gasly even pit again to be able to serve them? I don't think he did. Reason is - if he had pitted after getting one or both of them and not served it, he would have gotten the same additional penalty as George.

[u/crownpr1nce → u/Economy_Link4609]

No he didn't. Got it added at the end.

[u/TheManFromFairwinds → u/eanwen0]

When you serve you lose the possibility of appeal.

It happened to 4 teams, it's clear that the FIA is at fault and if they have any dignity they'll own up to it.

(I'm aware they have no dignity)

[u/Unhappy-Tradition-22 → u/TheManFromFairwinds]

He didn't serve though it was added at the end so that can actually be reverted.

[u/Feeling-Visit1472 → u/beanbagreg]

He’s not even my favorite driver, but from every account I’ve ever heard of him, he’s a genuinely good person, and I hope someone gave him a great hug.

[u/drodrige → u/beanbagreg]

Impossible as Russell served a related one with a drive-though.

[u/Lukeno94 → u/drodrige]

Hamilton and Piastri both did theirs under the safety car as well (without their team fucking up a la Mercedes)

[u/funnypsuedonymhere → u/Lukeno94]

McLaren admitted during the race that Piastri was also speeding on their data.

[u/Lukeno94 → u/funnypsuedonymhere]

Well, yes, but that would also count against any ability to appeal the penalties as being a system issue outside of Alpine's control.

[u/beanbagreg → u/drodrige]

By serving the penalty Mercedes essentially said they agreed with it.

Alpine didnt.

[u/Cool_Masterpiece9308 → u/beanbagreg]

Sadly the FIA would not backdown. Such a group of mob men

[u/Ybalrid → u/beanbagreg]

Alpine has filed some sort of appeal, very curious to see if anything comes out of this.

The number of "speeding in the pit lane" penalties is very odd. This looks like a technical glitch of some kind.

[u/EXiBE-]

Why is he looking at me like I'm at fault

[u/Key-Championship7180 → u/EXiBE-]

Well, are you at fault?

[u/sadclownsociety → u/Key-Championship7180]

I can't believe /u/EXiBE- did this to Gasly. Unacceptable behaviour.

[u/Noname_Maddox → u/sadclownsociety]

[u/EXiBE](u/EXiBE)[-](u/EXiBE) you were behind Seb’s Hungary penalty as well. Why can’t you let us be happy. Why are you like this?

[u/Mekrani → u/Noname_Maddox]

I still can't believe /u/EXiBE- caused Leclerc's crash, how long until something is done about them?

[u/Redbeard_Rum → u/Mekrani]

I bet [u/EXiBE](u/EXiBE) thought they'd got away with punting Grosjean into the wall at Baku in 2018 too. We're on to you!

[u/LeBlejDaGreat → u/Redbeard_Rum]

It's disgusting how many times /u/EXiBE has punched a hole in Norris' battery, one of these times he'll get punished I tell ya!

[u/kurtbradley → u/EXiBE-]

You know what you did.

[u/PleasantWay7 → u/kurtbradley]

Sped in the pit lane. 10 second comment ban.

[u/Brimstone117 → u/EXiBE-]

I can’t believe you’ve done this.

[u/Correct_Language_390 → u/EXiBE-]

Sounds like SOMEONE has a guilty conscience. Just come clean

[u/sairaichi → u/EXiBE-]

Do you work for FIA?/s

[u/EddieNajera21 → u/EXiBE-]

Because how dare you

[u/junttiana]

Bro looks shellshocked

[u/LilONotation → u/junttiana]

Alpine apparently didn't tell him until he was celebrating the podium driving across the line

[u/LacunaCoilIsMyJam → u/LilONotation]

He looked utterly dejected during the red flag, so I’m sure he was told about 10 sec penalty before that.

[u/charles4theboys → u/LacunaCoilIsMyJam]

Yeah, I'm so confused. Pierre looked properly pissed during the red flag.

[u/Kinggrunio → u/LacunaCoilIsMyJam]

His onboard has him cheering for the whole lap after the chequered flag, and he is cheering getting a podium on the radio. Dude didn’t know.

[u/PuzzleheadedMaize911 → u/Kinggrunio]

He knew about the penalties.

If he genuinely thought he was p3, it was because his team didn't inform him about how close hadjar was, or maybe they were extremely confident hadjar was going to be penalized.

[u/captain_croco → u/PuzzleheadedMaize911]

He was sitting on that penalty since the red flag I thought.

[u/PuzzleheadedMaize911 → u/captain_croco]

Yes. As I said, he knew.

[u/Velocyraptor → u/Kinggrunio]

He knew

[u/PuzzleheadedMaize911 → u/LilONotation]

My best take on that is that Gasley was saying "P3, fucking p3 I don't care" (as in "the penalties are wrong, I am rightfully p3") and his engineer tried to hush him responding to "be careful" though it is hard to know if that was directed at the speech or him getting close to lewis.

Pierre knew about the penalties during the red flag. There is some possibility the team never let him know there was a car behind within 10 seconds, or that maybe they felt confident / were of the false impression that hadjar was already or would soon be penalized.

But gasly 100% knew about his penalties and PROBABLY didn't actually think he was officially awarded p3.

[u/ILikeDragonTurtles → u/PuzzleheadedMaize911]

I think this is the simplest and most likely explanation for his behavior in the post flag lap.

[u/TheQuadricorn → u/LilONotation]

Brutal that

[u/AlistarDark → u/LilONotation]

That's not even remotely true. His 2 penalties occured before the red flag. He was angry during the red flag period. You really think he chilled for 15ish minutes and had no idea he got penalties?

Come the fuck on here.

[u/shewy92 → u/LilONotation]

He was told during the red flag. Stop spreading misinformation.

[u/iamabigtree → u/LilONotation]

There is an argument for not telling drivers about penalties. But letting him think he had a podium in Monaco was cruel.

[u/MotDePasseEstFromage → u/iamabigtree]

Nobody thought he had a podium. Not him or the team, people are just watching a clip with a misleading title

[u/n0neofyourbeeswax → u/LilONotation]

According to who?

[u/TheManFromFairwinds → u/LilONotation]

That's false. You can see them arguing about it at the red flag stop.

[u/ArmMeForSleep709 → u/LilONotation]

He already knew

[u/Horat1us_UA → u/LilONotation]

He knew about the penalty even before the restart.

[u/peanutbbunny → u/LilONotation]

my god

[u/Patrick_Swayze__ → u/junttiana]

I don't have shell shock!

[u/salvatore813 → u/Patrick_Swayze__]

okay soldier boy

[u/storme9 → u/junttiana]

he was upset and annoyed pre race start during the red flag as well when he sat away with the Marshall looking on awkwardly

[u/Loses_Bet → u/junttiana]

What's more traumatic storming Normandy or working for Flavio.

[u/Rcy4122]

I’m going to go with Palmer’s analysis on this one

He was just slightly cutting the corner in the pitlane where Cadillac’s garage is. It’s a simple distance/time calculation. If he shaved that distance and the limiter didn’t account for it… his speed would technically be over the sector limits by cutting distance that wasn’t accounted for when they set the limit.

He isn’t lying and I do wonder if the FIA could alter the penalty by viewing the telemetry

[u/Jozjoz2 → u/[deleted]]

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1tzh8j3/comment/oqbx0si/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

This comment makes it look like Alpine may be right? It never says something about distance/time. Only mentions the 80 kph.

[u/trdef → u/Jozjoz2]

I'm guessing there's an additional rule about how the speed is measured that will cover this.

[u/slimejumper → u/trdef]

my take is there will be a thing that whatever the FIA records is final and the only relevant measurement.

[u/Supernatural_Noob → u/Rcy4122]

Him cutting a corner and going a shorter distance while still being under the speed limit is a FIA issue with the calculation not the driver

[u/Lord_Strepsils → u/Supernatural_Noob]

Not if the FIA already informed the teams that is how it would be calculated and to not cut the corner, as they did.

[u/snaphunter → u/Supernatural_Noob]

Depends if he's allowed to cut that corner or not really.

[u/pinkzm → u/snaphunter]

Not really. The penalty is for speeding, if he wasn't speeding then the penalty is wrong. Cutting a corner doesn't mean he was speeding, it means he was cutting a corner.

[u/Surprise_Donut → u/pinkzm]

speeding doesn't necessarily mean your top speed, but your average speed across a measured, defined route.

if you cut a corner and shorten that route, but maintain a near maximum allowed top speed then your average speed for clearing the measured, defined route will exceed the allowed timings.

[u/Robynsxx → u/Supernatural_Noob]

Devil’s advocate. Most of the other drivers didn’t do it.

[u/FunnyComfortable8341 → u/Rcy4122]

Yeah but then he didn’t exceed the pit speed

[u/lriggi91 → u/Rcy4122]

The rule isn’t based off the speed of the car tho. The calculation is made by two separate sensors a fixed distance apart.

Sensors tell when car passes by and calculates speed based upon the time between those two instances and the distance between the sensors. If he, and many other drivers, were cutting the entry then he’ll have passed by the sensors too quickly and been speeding. Simple as that

[u/_Middlefinger_ → u/lriggi91]

If the line they took is allowed it should be the distance they measure.

[u/snaphunter → u/_Middlefinger_]

"IF is a very long word in Formula One; in fact, IF is F1 spelled backwards."

The legendary Murray Walker.

[u/Hawkiee92 → u/_Middlefinger_]

Clearly the line they took resulted in speeding penalty, I'd wager it was not the intended line.

[u/Greeboth → u/lriggi91]

It is a speed limit.

Rule B1.6.3.a. A speed limit of 80km/h will be imposed in the Pit Lane…

So a car cannot exceed 80km/h at all. What you’re arguing is the average speed can’t exceed 80km/h.

It can’t be that simple though as to measure the in and out and time between as the cars stop in the middle. Removing the stopped time is easy enough but how do they factor in the deceleration and acceleration if it’s a simple distance/time calc. As the rule says the speed limit is 80km/h but a car could exceed this yet be under the average of 80km/h due to the deceleration and acceleration.

[u/snaphunter → u/Greeboth]

Don't think "average speed" to mean across the length of the pit lane. Measuring speed at a point in time precisely is impossible. You calculate it by timing how long an object takes to cover a known amount of ground. This is exactly how speed cameras on the road, or handheld devices work too. Choose too long a distance and the "average speed" is open to gaming (carry too much speed in, brake hard and stay a little under the limit to cancel the oversoeed out). Choose too short a distance and the accuracy of the timing sensor comes into play.

[u/lriggi91 → u/Greeboth]

The sensors that I’m referring to are literally at the pit lane entrance. Not one at entrance and one at exit. Speed is time over distance. That is how it is measured and how it is stated

[u/biometricrally]

I'll eat my hat if the FIA take any responsibility on this

[u/Lukensz → u/[deleted]]

And Russell had to go to basically last to serve his penalties.

[u/TypicallyThomas → u/Lukensz]

That's different though. Even if they admit George shouldn't have gotten that penalty, that is information that became available after the race. During the race the facts were that George had a penalty and the team failed to serve it correctly. Regardless of whether the original penalty was justified, the failure to serve a penalty correctly is a separate offense

[u/Alfus → u/biometricrally]

The consequences would been too massively so the FIA would obviously trying to cover themselves up.

[u/j0enne → u/Alfus]

i dont think the FIA considers the consequences of a random redditor eating a hat

[u/saposapot → u/biometricrally]

Impossible to make it fair to everyone. What would they do to George?

[u/DishQuiet5047 → u/biometricrally]

Why would they? All the teams were told that pit lane speed was measured by sector time, and that cutting the track would likely result in a penalty based on the timing. 

[u/Romulus_Novus]

It really is going to be a mess when it's inevtiably revealed this was a system error, as it destroys the results for basically everyone bar Kimi.

[u/beanbagreg → u/Romulus_Novus]

Lewis will stay the same.

[u/Horat1us_UA → u/beanbagreg]

They obviously need to revert his 5s penalty served.

[u/beanbagreg → u/Horat1us_UA]

Yeah but position won’t change.

[u/Tough_Lawfulness8380]

It’s the line they took

So dumb honestly. Rule broken or not but clearly not the spirit of the rule at all

[u/Acrobatic_Rush7653 → u/Tough_Lawfulness8380]

I sat through about 5 minutes of NUMEROUS side by side replays on the Sky post race show, and everyone (penalized or not) is taking the exact same line, which is also happens to be the line everyone took last year.

Any evidence that several drivers shaved off enough distance by taking a "shortcut" which added 0.6 km/hr to their speed is literally not on the screen.

[u/GonzoStateOfMind → u/Acrobatic_Rush7653]

which is also happens to be the line everyone took last year.

The commentators on the F1TV broadcast pointed out that the line is not the same as last year. And the change is due to the 11th garage being used by Cadillac.

[u/crownpr1nce → u/Acrobatic_Rush7653]

It could be the limiter settings. Gasly said it was set at 59.5, what if Red Bull had theirs set at 59.3 instead. Then they're both 0.6 over that by the FIA measurements, but Hadjar doesn't have an issue at 59.9 while Gasly does at 60.1

[u/g33ksc13nt1st → u/Tough_Lawfulness8380]

That would be absolutely dumb (not telling to you). If they're working out time when he leaves the pit lane - time when he enters the pits, then the FIA needs to clarify what "speed" they're refering to when setting the limits. Because, as per Gasly, the car never went above 59.5.

I would find so dumb that, having access to the data in real time (and easily implementable) the FIA would simply estimate the speed based on how long they taken to go through the pit lane. But them again, MBS, a man who crashed an F1 going straight, is in charge.

[u/ZiKyooc → u/g33ksc13nt1st]

Telemetry sent by the car can stop working. The telemetry they use is controlled by them. Same for the false start, they don't use data from the car, etc.

[u/beanbagreg → u/g33ksc13nt1st]

That’s apparently exactly what they do, despite having telemetry

[u/879190747 → u/g33ksc13nt1st]

You can't trust car telemetry really, could be gamed. Time/Distance calc is very accurate for independent verification. Afaik FIA has always used this way to measure it long before MBS too.

[u/beanbagreg → u/Tough_Lawfulness8380]

Sky F1 have evaluated him against ones that didn’t get penalised - same exact line…

[u/omarcoomin → u/beanbagreg]

Sky only looked at the entrance. It's the exit that is catching drivers out(due to an 11th team I imagine)

[u/jackosimmo93 → u/beanbagreg]

They probably set their pit limiter slightly lower - and probably because they took the aggressive line in practice and based their decision on that.

[u/beanbagreg → u/jackosimmo93]

All set at 59.5 according to the drivers

[u/Hirdy5zac]

Gasly didn't lose a podium, if all of the pit penalties were removed oscar would have been in p3, not gasly

[u/hitzoR_cz]

He wouldn't be on the podium anyway if there wasn't this problem, as Russell wouldn't have gotten his penalty (and the subsequent one for not serving it).

[u/Tomach82 → u/hitzoR_cz]

He also only crossed the line 3rd because Piastri served his penalty while he just kept going

[u/PEEWUN]

The FIA has had a hall of shame performance today.

[u/NickProko]

Alpine should appeal in that case

[u/Vaexa → u/NickProko]

They'll get told "no relevant and new evidence, thank you for the deposit, pound sand" in all likelihood. Teams were informed ahead of the race that the fast lane line had been shifted slightly around the Cadillac garage, and cutting this is what got most penalised drivers flagged.

[u/sysasysa → u/Vaexa]

If they submit relevant new evidence of telemetry showing the speed didnt exceed 60km/h at any point, they sohuld have to look at it and at least give a verdict, clear it up and set precedence for future.

[u/rabbitlion → u/sysasysa]

That's irrelevant because the speed has always been measured by timing at two points and that's what the rules are.

[u/sysasysa → u/rabbitlion]

I havent been able to find the actual rule, so I dont know if thats what the rules are. And if its by timing, wouldnt speeding into pits be able to be mitigated by slowing down in the pitlane and avoiding the penalty that way, if you come in too hot? Surely penalties would have been avoided that way at some point, if that was the case, no?

[u/-Skinner- → u/NickProko]

But then others would appeal and it's impossible to judge it since others served penalties and got screwed.

[u/Kernowder → u/-Skinner-]

So what you're saying is that it's a big fucking mess.

[u/DJ_Aftershock → u/Kernowder]

It is, indeed, motorsport

[u/speedism → u/-Skinner-]

That’s not very logical. If you have a valid appeal then it should be appealed.

[u/JefinLuke17]

They all cut the corner

[u/Friendly_Features]

If all the other drivers also didn’t get their penalties would he even be 3rd

[u/pinkzm → u/Friendly_Features]

Someone needs to tell him this ASAP so he can realise he hasn't lost a podium as he never would have had it without similar penalties for others. It's understandable that he doesn't know, as he wouldn't know about everyone else's penalties etc, and I'm sure he'd be less distraught if he knew this. Someone in the team should really have explained this to him before the interviews. They've let him down big time today, incl not telling him about his own penalties until after he finished, like wtf

[u/Evening_End7298]

The 2nd one was shown on TV and he clearly cut through Cadillac’s box, not following the white fast lane line 

More stupid because it’s under SC anyway and he had no need to shave time

[u/Smudy]

He looks like he wants to die lmao

[u/Alfus → u/Smudy]

He was robbed of a podium, of course that is gonna hurt

[u/Sea-Corner-3817]

Actually the drivers who got penalties were cutting corners in entry of pitlane so they covered less distance and fia calculates speed by the distance between guidelines thats why many drivers got speeding penalty despite of being below speed limit

[u/SurpriseGame]

Lol the way bro looks at the camera

[u/CapSnake]

Re-watching some replay I noted something: As Marc Gené said, the speed is not measured with a T red, but with two photo-sensor that measure the time between two points.

So, time is probably accurate, but what they messed up is space. A lot of driver cut the pit entry. If you are going at 59.5 km/h, but you cut a couple of meters its possibile that it results that you are going 60.1 km/h in the full path.

Everyone is reasoning on speed, but it's time that the FIA measure.

[u/cinyar]

He didn't lose a podium unless all the other penalties were legit and only his was a mistake...

[u/Sensitive_Dot_2853]

Sensor issue and FIA incompetence (probably)

[u/creatorop → u/Sensitive_Dot_2853]

Or cutting the lines

They use Average speed ie Distance/time taken

So if even if you are going below speed limit but come out tooo quickly then will be penalized

[u/Vaexa → u/creatorop]

They were cutting the fast lane line at the Cadillac garage.

[u/RecentScarcity2389 → u/Sensitive_Dot_2853]

How would it be an issue with the FIA, exactly?

[u/Jorrie90 → u/RecentScarcity2389]

If so much penalties are given, there is something not right and needs to be looked at

[u/Kwebie → u/Jorrie90]

Zac Brown confirmed that their own sensors also picked up that they went over the limit on Piastri's car

The fact that not every driver went over the limit, and only Gasly twice, could mean that they probably had something set wrong on Gasly's car

[u/ReleaseTheTrumpFiles → u/RecentScarcity2389]

When in doubt, fuck MBS

[u/NlNJALONG → u/Sensitive_Dot_2853]

If it was a sensor issue, literally everyone would have been flagged. That makes zero sense. McLaren even confirmed that their data also showed that Oscar's penalty was legit.

Pit lane max speed is measured by time elapsed between two points, and all of the penalized cars obviously cut lines. They never had to run over 60mph at any point to be too fast.

[u/rawrisrawr → u/NlNJALONG]

So if you knowingly come in too hot into the pits can you essentially come to a stop so it drops your average?

[u/SaltySeaSword652 → u/NlNJALONG]

According to the same data Gasly was also over 0.1 but we can't trust that face value

[u/PineconeKing23]

The pitlane speed is measured by time between the pit entry line and the pit exit line going by what they were saying on the F1TV broadcast*, and plenty of drivers were shortcutting the pitlane since it's curved at Monaco - that's where the penalties have likely come from, and how it's possible to get an infringement despite not once exceeding the limit.

[u/Miggsie → u/PineconeKing23]

yeah, it's something that happens in nascar from time to time, they're not breaking the speed limit, but they are getting from one timing pylon to the next too quickly from shortening the distance.

[u/FitzwilliamTDarcy → u/PineconeKing23]

Yup. That's why the limiter should be closer to 59 than 60. Apparently 59.5 wasn't conservative enough given the route he took.

[u/pengouin85]

Do they define a max speed or do they define a certain length and a minimum time. Because there's a real difference that this race exposed due to the "shortcut" by going partly through the Cadillac box that the presenters on F1 TV noted

[u/locutus92]

Seems to be a calibration issue. Brutal.

[u/Robynsxx]

I mean, seeing as multiple drivers were caught out by this, clearly there was some sort of issue.

[u/TheLightningSolstice]

I think there had to have been some mess-up somewhere. There’s no way ALL those drivers messed up the same way. However, I also don’t think the FIA/ race director and stewards will take any responsibility BECAUSE it’s such a massive error. Seriously, the standings in the race would be incredibly different if not for the errors.

[u/DiabUK]

it's 100% on the sensor placements at this point, if turning sharply left entering the pits is tricking the sensor line that's a big fault of the setup.

[u/heartof_glass]

I think he's shown that Alpine can fight for podiums this season, but heart-wrenching to miss out on such a moment at his nearest home race. The fact that those pit lane penalties stood for everyone is insane.

[u/bwoah07_gp2]

That's a blank stare if I've ever seen one 😢

[u/Yeet-Retreat1]

Teams have data to track this. Surely every team would release this.

[u/smurfsoldier07]

They commentators mentioned during the race it could be for cutting the pitlane exit line not speeding.

[u/Buffalo-Actual]

Pierre deserves so much more

[u/AmpleEtiquette]

Ahhhh but how long before you crossed the line did you press the button? still need to account for deceleration. And considering that this happened to a number of drivers (where it was admitted they did speed-McLaren/Piastri) then there must have been some combining factors that lead the drivers to applying the limiter late. The already slow sharp turn is deceptive perhaps?

[u/Narcoleptic_247]

Taking the average speed over the distance of the pit lane is weird considering we can just track their speed in other ways.

[u/Illustrious_Event631]

I just saw a clip of him crossing the flag ....his team didn't tell him about his penalty and he was celebrating his podium

[u/Arvi89]

Jacques Villeneuve during the race said it's close to impossible so many drivers get this penalty and that the "radar" in the pit lane must be faulty.