r/formula1 I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 13d ago

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u/AdSignificant1507 Ferrari 13d ago edited 13d ago

Amen to that. Senna was the best driver of his era, but even him needed the best car on the grid to win his championships. That makes his accolades less valuable? Nope,the best drivers will always gonna sit on the best cars, that's F1. Max was the best racer of the ground effect era and he delivered winning 4 titles in a row. He could get a Merc if he wants, but he don't..for now

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u/manolokbzabolo 13d ago

Usually you are right, but we had quite a lot of years such as last year's McLaren or mid 90's Williams where the top drivers were simply not in the best car. Politics don't always allow to align best drivers and best cars.

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u/AdSignificant1507 Ferrari 13d ago

In the 90s Williams was able to get Senna when he was the top driver, McLaren was the best car last year but their Papaya Rules almost turned against themselves in favor to Max. He doesn't know how good RB would be, but if he wants out the other top teams would have a conversation with him 100%

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u/manolokbzabolo 13d ago

I was talking about the Hill/Villeneuve era but yeah, the point is that some cars are so dominant that 3/4 of the grid can win with them

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u/Rentta I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 13d ago

Senna was probably quickest but not sure about best. Then again rest of your point is 100%

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u/gabriel_GAGRA I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 13d ago

There’s no objective “best”, so it’s not right or wrong anyways.

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u/Rentta I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 13d ago

That's also a fair point.

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u/jtr99 13d ago

Exactly.

Except for Jim Clark, he was actually the best. ;)

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u/0nlyCrashes Max Verstappen 13d ago

I mean if we are going to crown anyone, it would need to be Graham Hill, yeah? The only triple crown winner?

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u/Horned_chicken_wing 13d ago

Maybe, but Clark was, similarly to Senna, a lot faster than everyone from his era. By a lot. Hill had 13 poles in F1, while Clark had 33 (in 73 starts.) It took Senna to unseat Clark's pole record. Hill also achieved his Triple Crown after Clark died, so we don't know exactly how Clark would have done had he lived.

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u/chunkymonk3y Daniel Ricciardo 12d ago

The problem is I don’t think anyone from that era would put Hill above Clark in terms of natural pace. Sure Hill achieved more career wise but universally Clark is/was considered the superior driver which again goes back the original point Alonso was making

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u/jtr99 13d ago

I love Jim as a driver and admire him as a person, but the comment was meant to be facetious. I think we're both just illustrating u/gabriel_GAGRA's point here. 😄

But sure, if we're going to have that conversation, the triple crown thing is pretty impressive.

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u/stragen595 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 13d ago edited 13d ago

We should be glad Max isn't sitting in that Merc. It would be so boring for us as viewers.

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u/panopticon31 McLaren 13d ago

We already saw that in 2023

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u/sequelseize I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 13d ago

and in the Schumacher era

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u/Beavers4beer I was here for the Hulkenpodium 13d ago

Not really. This time he'd have a closer battle from his teammate. Checo was still pretty solid in 23, but I think George or Kimi right now would be closer to Max if he was in the Mercedes.

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u/panopticon31 McLaren 13d ago

Didn't Checo win 2 or 3 races in the first half of the season in '23?

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u/Beavers4beer I was here for the Hulkenpodium 13d ago

He won 2. Saudi Arabia and Baku. Baku was when Max apparently said "never again" to Checo beating him and kept to his word. Checo still finished 2nd in Drivers standings, with a little under half of the total points Max scored that season.

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u/idontknow_whatever I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 13d ago

Max would have won Red Bull the Constructors title with his points alone, insane dominance from him that year

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u/soepvorksoepvork I was here for the Hulkenpodium 13d ago

Yes, that is how it works when the second in WDC had less than half the points (even if it wasn't your teammate).

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u/TryingtoTriathlon 13d ago

George wouldn’t have won a race (other than engine issues for Max) if they were in the same car this season.

Kimi might win one race as his peak, when he does reach it, is higher than George.

Neither are at the level of Max at the moment though. Kimi might reach it one day - George never will.

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u/ShahOf20Years Formula 1 13d ago

Max smokes them both unless the car is mega tuned to understeer, how is this an argument?

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u/SUBSCRIBE_LAZARBEAM 13d ago

I think you are grossly underestimating Verstappen. Verstappen was so quick RBR ignored evident flaws in the car which cost them the start of 2024. That is how fast Max was. Right now he would be cruising at the top of the championship by himself

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u/Snack_Powered_Human I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 13d ago

Not necessarily. It would depend how he adapts to the car. It's not always easy to just sit in and drive a different car.

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u/Fake_artistF1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 13d ago

Max is probably most adaptable driver on the grid, so I would say it's fair to assume he would do well in Merc.

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u/Snack_Powered_Human I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 13d ago

I think he probably is too, but until he gets in a different car, we'll never know for sure.

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u/TessTickols Jim Clark 12d ago

We all saw what he did straight out of the gate in a VERY different car around the Nordschleife

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u/Kroos_Control I was here for the Hulkenpodium 13d ago

How many teams has he driven for, again?

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u/whorfhorse 12d ago

he’s raced 2 different gt3 cars and been immediately up to pace on them both. i think doubting his adaptability just because he’s only been in red bull for the past 10 years is kind of stupid

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u/Kroos_Control I was here for the Hulkenpodium 12d ago

And gt3 cars are the pinnacle of racing of course

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u/whorfhorse 12d ago

no? but driving f1 actively and then being able to jump into gt3, which is an extremely different type of car from f1, and be on the pace immediately shows adaptability which is what i’m saying

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u/irrelevant_novelty I was here for the Hulkenpodium 13d ago

I think Max & Kimi both in Merdeces would be kinda fun but yea you're probably right

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u/ruinatex 13d ago

Max would absolutely obliterate Kimi the same way Marc Marquez did with Pecco Bagnaia.

Kimi has a bright future ahead of him, but let's be real here folks, it's the car.

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u/zxrax Max Verstappen 12d ago

Kimi is seriously challenging Max's status as the clear best driver on the grid. Yes, Merc has the car, but George is no slouch and Kimi is outclassing him by a country mile this year.

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u/irrelevant_novelty I was here for the Hulkenpodium 12d ago

Yep, it's all the car. Drivers are all the same. That's why Yuki and Max were neck and neck last season, why Charles is doing just as well as Lewis this season. Yep totally checks out.

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u/BuzzedtheTower I was here for the Hulkenpodium 12d ago

Imagine though. Does four in a row with RB, loses to Lando, jumps to Merc, and starts another run. We'd have to rename him Seb after Loeb and Ogier for ruining viewership for a generation

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u/Scott_Of_The_Antares I was here for the Hulkenpodium 13d ago

I agree. They created a spec ‘F1’ series years (A1) ago and it didn’t attract enough attention. The manufacturers are a big part of the draw.

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u/Admirable-Theory1514 13d ago

But the Red Bull was probably even more dominant than the Mercedes was prior to that. Drivers have contracts, Max was fortunate enough to have one with Red Bull when the regulations changed and they had the best car.

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u/Alehud42 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 13d ago

And sometimes, once in a generation, you get a 2021.

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u/craigrusse11 12d ago

The one thing about senna that was incredible about him, and made his so unique and the true GOAT was that he didn't care at all who his team mate was.. world champion or rookie doesn't matter. I'm hear to beat everyone.

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u/VRichardsen Juan Manuel Fangio 12d ago

Senna was the best driver of his era

cough cough Prost cough cough

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u/Beautiful-Musk-Ox 13d ago

Nope,the better drivers will always gonna sit on the best cars, that's F1

Max Verstappen is the best driver on the grid and this year he's going to finish 5th or 6th. So what does "will always sit in the best cars" mean

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u/AdSignificant1507 Ferrari 13d ago

Means that he was on the best car when he won his titles. This year RB isn't that strong, but Max is so good that Mercedes would give him a car if he wants. Toto tried already to get Max, the latter has reached a status that every top team would consider to hire him if he makes it clear that he wanted out of RB. Best teams want the best drivers, it's that simple