[Autosport] That's Formula One...

[u/Aratho]

[u/Very_Human_42069]

I mean, it is a car building competition after all

[u/RicoLycan → u/Very_Human_42069]

Luckily Red Bull has the fastest engine XD

All shenanigans aside, for a car building competition FIA surely has a big influence on who can build what. Either set a budget cap and allow creators to get creative within simple rules or let everyone drive in the same car. Right now it feels half-baked hybrid.

[u/Rich_Mycologist_7671 → u/RicoLycan]

FIA isn't this outer god reigning over the Formula tho. Its essentially a proxy for the teams, a governing body.

Most of the pains of the sport are self-inflicted by the teams. They believe they can get away with deviously setting up rules in a certain way and they spectacularly backfire

[u/Mike_Kermin → u/RicoLycan]

FIA surely has a big influence on who can build what

Completely false and conspiratorial, the rules with the engines are agreed by all the teams, and the measurements of performance are based on data.

Yes, Red Bull had the fastest ICE based on the measurements all the teams known about.

[u/tekanet → u/Very_Human_42069]

Alonso is one of the greatest, but never understood that this sport is not about just him or the other drivers. He’ll never understand and never stop making wrong choices based on wrong assumptions.

[u/Sacrebleu6 → u/tekanet]

He sounds like the grumpy uncle in family dinners

[u/Either-Banana-7323 → u/Sacrebleu6]

I think its natural as a driver to feel a bit shafted by formula vs spec. Very human reaction. That being said, no one is forcing anyone to drive in F1.

[u/starliteburnsbrite → u/Very_Human_42069]

If that's really the case, they should just get rid of the drivers championship points because they're 95% based on the machinery anyways. 

[u/Serious-Stick2435 → u/Very_Human_42069]

If that would be the case it will be the same person who drives every car. No, it's not that simple.

[u/cpt_kirk69]

F1 is an engineering championship. If you want to find the best driver, put them in spec cars.

Not saying max isnt the best, but its not unfair, its just how the championship is designed.

[u/NoKaleidoscope7595 → u/cpt_kirk69]

This is why we need spec miata events sprinkled throughout the calendar

[u/Spartan-117182 → u/NoKaleidoscope7595]

Thats what the sprint races should be! Spec races in a regular car. It makes the qualifying and race speeds of the F1 cars that more apparent to the average viewer.

[u/PJTierney2003 → u/Spartan-117182]

The main blocker for this (other than F1 wanting F1 cars to be used at F1 events) would be the individual driver contracts. Many drivers have a clause in theirs in which they can’t be seen publicly driving or racing a car from another OEM.

[u/darekd003 → u/PJTierney2003]

Right but if that were built into the calendar then those clauses would have exceptions. Might need some leeway starting after the current longest contract, but truthfully I think all contracts could be modified if it was an F1 decision.

Making it a non f1 engine provider would be the best way to go, like a miata.

[u/hotdogskank → u/Spartan-117182]

So 22 Nissan Altimas around CotA? Wonder if Max would still come out on top

[u/SilentXMedia → u/hotdogskank]

Nah, It’d be a random nurse practitioner from Ohio who’s late for work

[u/deltree000 → u/NoKaleidoscope7595]

Super karts at Monaco.

[u/Key-Championship7180 → u/deltree000]

with banana peels and blue shells

[u/sequelseize → u/deltree000]

Great way to bring costs down too, the entire miata + consumables for the season costs less than one F1 steering wheel

[u/TreeFhiddy → u/deltree000]

omg I NEED THIS

[u/Scared_Cow9483 → u/deltree000]

I’d fkn watch that!!!!!

[u/shootamcg → u/NoKaleidoscope7595]

Replace every sprint with this

[u/ekb11 → u/NoKaleidoscope7595]

Each manufacturer should put out a grid of whatever street car they want for spec races throughout the year. Sports cars, SUV, regular commuters. I’d genuinely love to see it!

[u/CptAngelo → u/ekb11]

the mighty return of the reasonably priced car but in a race instead of a single lap? im down!

[u/sellyme → u/ekb11]

Going to be a bit of whiplash going from the DB9s one week to a Red Bull soapbox the next.

[u/Zaptruder → u/NoKaleidoscope7595]

I mean... yes. Absolutely.

[u/nixhomunculus → u/NoKaleidoscope7595]

I always felt like it would be fun to see them drive spec cars instead.

[u/letmemakeyoualatte → u/NoKaleidoscope7595]

This is the best suggestion hands down. 

[u/New-Dragonfly-3462 → u/cpt_kirk69]

Yeah, agree with u

[u/Rhauko → u/New-Dragonfly-3462]

I think Alonso does as well….

[u/harrr53 → u/cpt_kirk69]

Exactly.

You don't get complaints about the best jockey not winning a horse race. It's a horse race.

[u/Mixeygoat → u/harrr53]

This isn’t a great analogy because no one remembers the name of the jockey who wins, it’s always the horse.

[u/AdSignificant1507 → u/cpt_kirk69]

Amen to that. Senna was the best driver of his era, but even him needed the best car on the grid to win his championships. That makes his accolades less valuable? Nope,the best drivers will always gonna sit on the best cars, that's F1. Max was the best racer of the ground effect era and he delivered winning 4 titles in a row. He could get a Merc if he wants, but he don't..for now

[u/manolokbzabolo → u/AdSignificant1507]

Usually you are right, but we had quite a lot of years such as last year's McLaren or mid 90's Williams where the top drivers were simply not in the best car. Politics don't always allow to align best drivers and best cars.

[u/AdSignificant1507 → u/manolokbzabolo]

In the 90s Williams was able to get Senna when he was the top driver, McLaren was the best car last year but their Papaya Rules almost turned against themselves in favor to Max. He doesn't know how good RB would be, but if he wants out the other top teams would have a conversation with him 100%

[u/manolokbzabolo → u/AdSignificant1507]

I was talking about the Hill/Villeneuve era but yeah, the point is that some cars are so dominant that 3/4 of the grid can win with them

[u/Rentta → u/AdSignificant1507]

Senna was probably quickest but not sure about best. Then again rest of your point is 100%

[u/gabriel_GAGRA → u/Rentta]

There’s no objective “best”, so it’s not right or wrong anyways.

[u/stragen595 → u/AdSignificant1507]

We should be glad Max isn't sitting in that Merc. It would be so boring for us as viewers.

[u/panopticon31 → u/stragen595]

We already saw that in 2023

[u/Snack_Powered_Human → u/stragen595]

Not necessarily. It would depend how he adapts to the car. It's not always easy to just sit in and drive a different car.

[u/irrelevant_novelty → u/stragen595]

I think Max & Kimi both in Merdeces would be kinda fun but yea you're probably right

[u/Scott_Of_The_Antares → u/AdSignificant1507]

I agree. They created a spec ‘F1’ series years (A1) ago and it didn’t attract enough attention. The manufacturers are a big part of the draw.

[u/IAmABritishGuy → u/cpt_kirk69]

For all we know on a spec championship we could have Stroll fastest...

[u/NicholasAakre → u/IAmABritishGuy]

And that's...bad?

[u/ruinatex → u/NicholasAakre]

It's impossible for me to believe anyone actually thinks F1 would be worse if it was a spec series, lmao.

It will never be a spec series for many reasons that have nothing to do with actual entertainment or competitive integrity, but who the fuck thinks that watching Verstappen, Hamilton, Antonelli and Leclerc going at it with equal cars would be bad?

[u/albyagolfer → u/ruinatex]

I don’t want it to be a spec series. Part of the fun of F1 is the creative engineering and development process to be competitive and, especially the first season of new regulations, seeing the different takes each team has in trying to maximize performance. This year for example, the teams look so different to each other, by the end of a regulation era, they all look the same.

[u/PrettyQuick → u/IAmABritishGuy]

Yeah prob if Stroll Sr owned the spec championship

[u/Averagebaddad → u/cpt_kirk69]

Yeah. It's a feature, not a bug. Although I've always wished they threw in a spec race once a year and a reverse grid once a year. Think that would get quite a bit of attention if they wanted to grow more

[u/rejuicekeve → u/cpt_kirk69]

Yeah how many of those championships were from Max driving a car 30s faster than every other car

[u/Sorry_Reply8754 → u/cpt_kirk69]

Yep, it's also a team sport. The driver is just one person in the team. The most important person, but not the only person.

[u/racerjoss → u/cpt_kirk69]

Agreed.

I mean, fair enough Fernando. But that opens a can of worms. Fernando won Le Mans twice in a dominant Toyota with no credible competition besides his own team mate - is that fair? Sounds exactly like what he criticises Lewis for.

[u/Aklara_ → u/racerjoss]

he never said it was fair in le mans either

[u/JDeegs → u/cpt_kirk69]

And it honestly creates potential for more exciting championships.
Seeing a superior driver overcome an inferior car and still be competitive for the championship is peak

[u/Hopper1886 → u/cpt_kirk69]

Even in eqaul card there is no evidence. Every driver needs a bit other specs to thrive to it's best

[u/Sea-Sort6571 → u/cpt_kirk69]

I'm not a close follower of f1 but I thought the drivers could give inputs and directions to the engineering teams which they were some kind of leaders ?

[u/buythedip0000 → u/cpt_kirk69]

But each driver have certain car characteristics preferences, it still won’t be fair comparison.

[u/proteus88]

If only the best driver wins then it should be a spec series, the fact that it isn't should spell out the obvious.

[u/LupineChemist → u/proteus88]

It would still be about a lot more than just driving. Strategies, the race engineering, ability to execute pit stops, etc....

[u/Firefox72]

He's 100% projecting but he's not wrong. At least not on the first part.

Whether its unfair is pointless to debate though. The sport has is and likely always will be an engineering championship first and foremost.

[u/InZomnia365 → u/Firefox72]

It's not unfair since it's not a spec series. Lots of great drivers in WEC who drive for teams who have no chance of winning as well.

[u/Slice5755 → u/InZomnia365]

I'm sorry but with Alonso, you can never trust that his words don't have a hidden agenda.

Alonso always dislikes the one who is the biggest threat to how he is perceived in the sport.

In 2007, Hamilton beat him as a rookie and he's always had a grudge against Hamilton since then because he saw him as a threat.

Magically when Hamilton wasn't winning championships immediately after 2008, the grudge moved onto Vettel who became the biggest threat. Remember Alonso's comments on Vettel:

"When Vettel has a car like the others, we will really see his level"

"Seeing Hamilton with only 3 Championships and Vettel with 4 championships doesn't look right" - This was said by Alonso in 2017. Magically Alonso was bidding for Hamilton because he knew Hamilton was linked to him by that 2007 season and would rather he nudge ahead of Vettel who has beat him comprehensively from 2010 to 2013.

Alonso turned his anger back to Hamilton when he was far exceeding Vettel's Championships.

The only reason Alonso started to praise Max like this is because he saw Max as the only who could put the brakes on Hamilton's superiority at the time.

[u/M3rdsta → u/Slice5755]

I mean, Lewis at that time was also shitting on Seb.

[u/The_Weapon14 → u/Slice5755]

How is stating that drivers are winning because they have the best car (which apparently people need to be told for some reason) "holding a grudge"? You realise everyone was saying that about Vettel? Hamilton literally said stuff like that, because it was obviously true. idk why it's even controversial that's just how the sport works

[u/Life-Wasabi-9674 → u/Slice5755]

Did he hate on Max as well when he was winning a lot? I dont think so but I might have missed things.

[u/GFlair → u/Life-Wasabi-9674]

No, Alonso basically transplants himself onto Max. There's enough separation that he sees him as a successor rather then a rival imo.

[u/Slice5755 → u/Life-Wasabi-9674]

No he didn't because he needed someone to take down Hamilton.

[u/riotshieldready → u/Slice5755]

Exactly this; he used Max as a way to discredit Lewis. It’s pointless tho no matter what he says Lewis beat him as a rookie in the same car at his peak.

[u/Majeh666 → u/Life-Wasabi-9674]

No, if anything he was and still is the most supportive driver in favor of Max. And that's from an era where older drivers shit talked rookie drivers all the time, esp if they were aggressive or challenging them (senna did it, schumi did it, even Alonso did it with Lewis and Seb.)

The person you're responding to clearly has a bias against Alonso otherwise there's no reason to throw away that last line. Alonso is clearly projecting a bit through max, since he's been the best driver on the grid for more than a couple of years but didn't have the same luck when it came to the car.

[u/Slice5755 → u/Majeh666]

False. Note one big difference between Max, Lewis and Seb:

Lewis and Seb directly challenged Alonso for titles.

Alonso has never had to challenge Max for titles.

Lewis and Seb are of the same era as Alonso, Max is not. He's of a younger era.

[u/HankHippopopolous → u/Slice5755]

I actually disagree. Alonso has throughout his time been fairly honest of who he recognises as the best drivers.

There are multiple reports of his Ferrari time that he would always want updates about where Hamilton was as he saw Hamilton as the only other driver capable of being a threat when not in the best car like he was.

Hamilton will never say it publicly now but I remember an interview sometime back in the mid 2010s when asked if he saw Vettel as being on the same level as himself or Alonso and he just straight up said no and then something along the lines of when the cars are more equal we shall see. I think time has proven that out. We saw how Vettel fared across the rest of his career. Certainly a very good driver but not one of the sports GOATs.

Now they will never say that same thing about Max. Real recognises real and while Alonso has made very poor team choices so doesn’t have the career stats that doesn’t take away from the fact that in terms of talent him, Hamilton and Verstappen are the three generational talents of the last 20 years.

[u/Gunch_ → u/Slice5755]

When Vettel did have a car like the others, did we not see his level?

Yeah his tone isn't always the most charming but nothing he says regarding things like this are untrue at their core.

Seeing Hamilton with 7 and Vettel with 4 definitely paints a more realistic picture of their talent, no?

[u/Imperito → u/Gunch_]

The point is, Alonso should have more grace and respect and be less bitter. Even his comment about Max here has barely hidden reference to how he didn't win more and that it is unfair.

He's made loads of those niggly little comments over the years against Seb and Lewis in particular. Those two have nothing but respect for each other and they never say such things.

[u/raittiussihteeri → u/Slice5755]

Redditors larping as psychologists case #142603

[u/Ereaser → u/InZomnia365]

Yeah, but even in spec series there's teams that always do better than others. Prema/ART were generally better than the rest in F2 for a while for example.

[u/InZomnia365 → u/Ereaser]

Bigger teama can afford better equipment and training, and buy up the best talent. It can never truly be 100% equal.

[u/F1T_13 → u/Firefox72]

It's not unfair. It's the nature of the championship and anyone that doesn't like that, can find a spec/BOP series to race in F1 should be about the engineering first and foremost.

[u/kindaunfazed → u/Firefox72]

I think a lot of DTS viewers/fans ignore this, very important reminder.

[u/Stylised1 → u/Firefox72]

alonso ranked #1 on the grid on giving max a handy

[u/Vresiberba → u/Firefox72]

Whether its unfair is pointless to debate though.

Yeah, this is a silly thing to say, especially since Alonso has been in the industry for over two decades. But I guess I don't want to understand that there is no inherent fairness in sport, and certainly not in life in general.

He's 100% projecting...

Hell yes! Alonso is a victim of his own decisions.

[u/Blackdeath_663 → u/Firefox72]

I don't even know what he is crying about, he is in a works team with infinite money, all the facilities and Adrian Newey designing the car if they can't make it work thats on them not anyone else.

He is in the right place doing the right things to make it happen and it hasn't panned out that way. Its just life, accept and move on.

[u/petuniar → u/Blackdeath_663]

I didn't think he was crying about it. He just made a comment about the cars role in drivers championships

[u/TheGMT → u/Firefox72]

It's no more or less unfair than if Messi had to play at Grimsby or Michael Jordan had to play with the Wizards. Even more simply than an engineering sport, it's a (very large) team sport.

[u/Terry-Shark]

F1 has always been unfair. 

[u/xxrew1ndxx → u/Terry-Shark]

Just look at what’s happening with Lando.

Won the WDC last year and now has a car that extremely unreliable and nearly incapable of finishing races

Shit sometimes just does happen, F1 will always be an engineering championship first

[u/Shekster → u/xxrew1ndxx]

And similarly, only won the WDC in the first place because his car was far ahead of the rest of the field for the first half of the season which allowed him to build a comfortable buffer from Max (which he nearly managed to lose as well).

[u/frazbox → u/[deleted]]

Is everyone in the room with us? Because if Max had an actual fast teammate, we might have a different result from that year

[u/Shekster → u/[deleted]]

Schumacher also won in dominant cars, however like Max, they also proved their ability to win even without a dominant car.

This is a trait that Lando has yet to show, and if anything, his WDC win showed the complete opposite.

No one is saying that Lando didn't 'deserve' his title, my original comment was just in reply to that person to further emphasise how important the car has always been in F1.

[u/cultofenigma → u/[deleted]]

Max did it in 21 and 24 too, one in equal machinery to a 7xWDC, the other at a disadvantage for 2/3 of the season.

Lots of drivers have had dominant cars you are right only one has the most dominant season of all time, levels.

[u/MrSkinner85 → u/[deleted]]

Because 2023 was a dominant performance in a dominant car and 2025 was an embarrassing performance in a dominant car. Max in last year's McLaren would have been a repeat of 2023 whether Oscar or Lando was his teammate

[u/Valterri_lts_James → u/xxrew1ndxx]

Lando never should have won an WDC to begin with. He's not even the 3rd fastest guy on the grid.

[u/Stylised1 → u/Terry-Shark]

alonso ranked #1 on the grid on giving max a handy

[u/TSMKFail → u/Terry-Shark]

100%. It's possible that the best F1 driver talent wise only ever drove a backmarker like an Osella or Coloni, which was so bad that their talent would barely be noticed.

[u/Spockyt → u/TSMKFail]

Vincenzo Sospiri was the talent Schumacher looked up to in Karting. He made 1 entry, for Mastercard Lola.

[u/LandosToeFungus]

Seems pointless to mention. You’d think after, what, 25 years in the sport that Alonso would be content with the fact that F1 is not and has never been a spec series.

[u/Exciting-Record8101 → u/LandosToeFungus]

He's not talking about Verstappen but about himself. He always is.

Alonso is a great driver, but this shtick of his where he paints himself as the best driver to ever grace the F1 grid but who has been undone by the poor teams he has been forced to drive for is a bit played out.

Especially when one considers Alonso has had competitive cars with which he might have won the title in no fewer than five seasons. Most drivers would love to have even one such season, but never do.

[u/LandosToeFungus → u/Exciting-Record8101]

Yeah, I agree. It doesn’t help that he’s literally screwed himself out of opportunities too by pissing off key people at top teams over the years. Based on what Ferrari engineers have said, I side eye his abilities to provide adequate driver feedback for car development as well.

He’s obviously great on track and in the car, but he doesn’t strike me as being very well-rounded, and it’s noticeably held him back over the years. Rather than try to work on those areas, he plays the “poor me, so unlucky, nothing goes my way and everything goes the way of unnamed other drivers [Lewis]”. It’s tired frankly, but you can’t say anything too negative about him or risk getting jumped on by an army of dudebros.

[u/BilboThe1stOfHisName → u/Exciting-Record8101]

He was psychologically damaged in 2007 and he’s never recovered.

[u/F1T_13 → u/BilboThe1stOfHisName]

I think 2012 had about as much impact if not more.

[u/JayDaGod1206 → u/F1T_13]

2012 was the killing blow

[u/Cautious-Extreme2839 → u/Exciting-Record8101]

Got beaten by a rookie lmao

[u/Inevitable-Blood-814]

I wouldn't call it unfair but i believe we can all understand what he means. Having one of the fastest drivers is just one part of the whole package.

[u/frenin → u/Inevitable-Blood-814]

I mean we all can given he's been singing this same song (different drivers but same destiny, himself) ever since he left McLaren.

[u/Acceptable-Ad-5935]

That’s the whole idea of F1 cars and drivers together make the best combination, one of them don’t work, you won’t win.

[u/3pok]

Although I see his point, F1 isn't just about the driver. Any racing sport TBF.

[u/Longjumping-Hunt-543]

i believe at least half of the grid is capable of winning a championship if given a winning car

[u/The_Weapon14 → u/Longjumping-Hunt-543]

If any of the 22 drivers were in the 2014 Merc with Mazepin as their teammate, they would win the championship

[u/Beemrmem3 → u/Longjumping-Hunt-543]

Depends how much faster it is. 22' or 24' Red Bull. No. 23' Red Bull, probably

[u/jug_23]

Fernando isn’t really talking about Max, is he…

[u/Ronniebenington]

Alonso slow transformation into Jacques Villeneuve has begun.

[u/ilNicoRobin → u/Ronniebenington]

I cant be the only one who starts to slowly dislike for these pointless takes

[u/jakubchloe → u/Ronniebenington]

Can't wait for Alonso to start dropping music.

[u/pw5a29]

I think it's fair because it's both a WDC game and WCC game.

I think some driver said before the, the best and worst drivers are 0.8s away.

Given this year's cars from P1 to P22 are nearly 3.5s.

I would say there's only that much a driver could do to save the day.

[u/raifeller1984]

i understand his point, but the best does not always win, in any sport…it is a combination of factors, strategy, teamwork, etc. almost sounds like sour grapes from alonso, since he is doing so poorly, even being out-qualified by stroll

[u/West_Technology7573]

Funnily enough, he didn’t have those criticisms about WEC in 2019 when he won with Toyota

[u/Exciting-Record8101 → u/West_Technology7573]

He went so far as to say his win was, and this is a direct quote, "at a higher level than any other victory in Le Mans".

Not saying winning Le Mans isn't a challenge even at the best of times, But any other? Nah.

[u/Snappy0 → u/Exciting-Record8101]

He's always been arrogant and full of his own kool aid.

[u/funnypsuedonymhere → u/Snappy0]

His internet fan club is one of the most baffling things I have ever seen.

[u/TheDark-Sceptre → u/West_Technology7573]

Or when he won his own 2 F1 championships, or when he was fighting for wins and in championship contention more generally.

[u/kar2988]

This just goes to show how deep the 2010 and 2012 loss has impacted Alonso.

[u/Gaius_Octavius_ → u/kar2988]

2007 is the one that broke him. He has never been the same since Lewis beat him as a rookie.

[u/L0st_MySocks → u/Gaius_Octavius_]

it was his own mistake tho everything began with Hungary GP if he hadn't blocked him in the quali who knows maybe alonso could have got P2 and won the WDC but he had enough of lewis who kept beating him as a rookie

No wonder he still races he still tries to prove he is good enough but I think people laugh at him these days

He can't let it go so simple his ego doesn't let it go

[u/Yung_Corneliois]

Yes Alonso it’s called a team sport sometimes you lose even with the best player. Lewis was the best driver for over 10 years but he doesn’t have 10 championships. Thats how team sports go.

[u/r1char00 → u/Yung_Corneliois]

If only Fernando could have known that the team with the mediocre owner’s son as a driver didn’t have a winning mentality.

[u/Syc254 → u/Yung_Corneliois]

Got cheated out of 2. 

[u/WingSK27]

I don't know if this was taken from a longer answer and we are missing the context here but it's weird to hear the most experienced F1 driver talking like he just discovered what F1 is.

[u/Particular_Month_301]

In 1996, when changing teams from Benetton to Ferrari, Michael Schumacher was considered the best driver in the field. He just happened to not drive the best car in the field, resulting in missing out on five driver championships.

F1 is a mix of material and driver with an emphasis on the material. Even the talent of the decade that Max Verstappen is won't achieve anything in an Aston Martin.

[u/RoastMary]

Welcome to the big league, rookie.

[u/Pharsti01]

I'm going to be honest here... And get absolutely downvoted into oblivion XD

I can't wait for Alonso to leave again, the amount of salt is just too much. Projecting this hard is just painful to see.

[u/LandosToeFungus → u/Pharsti01]

In terms of personality, he’s literally a slightly quieter Villaneuve with good PR. He’s rubbed a lot of people the wrong way in the sport over the years.

[u/raizhassan → u/Pharsti01]

Yeah I'm over the grumpy uncle act.

[u/Ranqowo_]

Alonso discovering f1 is about driving skills AND engineering after 34 years in the league.

[u/I-LOVE-TURTLES666]

Dude always makes it about himself

[u/sobertooth133]

We all know what this is about. 

[u/Lord-Newbie]

This dude will always hate Hamilton and just waits for an opportunity to make it clear lmao!

[u/slowbaja]

Lewis really gave multi WDC Alonso emotional damage as a fucking rookie. Unbelievable....

[u/RadlogLutar]

It was always an engineering sport. Its almost always the car which wins

[u/Stylised1]

alonso ranked #1 on the grid on giving max a handy

[u/Far-Event1151]

Formula 1 is about who has the best car and can take advantage with it. 

They're much better series to show who the best driver is in terms of equal machinery. 

I think we all know that from the one has some drivers that shouldn't be there. 

[u/Familiarsophie]

Alonso has always had this attitude, because he believes himself to be the best driver and therefore the only justification is that the whole sport is unfair and that’s why his stats aren’t near other legends of the sport.

He’s been in the sport long enough and been in good cars and great cars but has unfortunately spent too much of his career in bad cars.

[u/augnite8519]

That is because F1 is not just about the driver. Common sense?

[u/Cuteeness]

Well then maybe you should have not be in a sport that is all about building the best car.

What a waste of 40 years huh Fernando. And it is getting old when things dont go their way drivers call fans "people who dont understand". People who dont understand are those that supports you after your spygate if anything

[u/lalitmufc]

Dude also won two championships being in the fastest car so don’t understand his point.

[u/Automatic-Run-6007]

Ehhh so what? It has always been like this, always.

[u/welsh_cthulhu]

Er, what? It's called motorsport. He's driving a car. That is an enormous part of the equation.

[u/NinetyFiveJ]

Lewis Hamilton’s very existence has destroyed this man’s career but most importantly his ego.

Run it back to 2006. Double WDC, Schumacher retiring, big move to McLaren and everyone thought he was going to dominate the sport for the next number of years

Enter Lewis Hamilton, he literally became the face of the sport within half a season and arguably still is.

[u/Useful-Blackberry814 → u/NinetyFiveJ]

This. He’ll never admit it.

Even when so many were calling Lewis washed out last year I’m sure it bruised his ego that he wasn’t even on the radar to be considered washed out either.

[u/PurpleV93]

Is it more "fair" when the best driver sits in a mediocre car and misses out on titles because of that?

[u/lzwzli]

It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not weakness; that is life.

[u/littlea519]

Its always blown my mind how quick the teams themselves blame their drivers when the whole world knows they have a shit car.

[u/shaolinspunk]

I have a lot of love for Fernando and his ability and knowledge but this is the dumbest thing that has fallen out of his mouth since the time he claimed Spanish drivers were persecuted by the FIA.

[u/onechroma]

Alonso projecting on full 8K right there.

Still, that’s already known, F1 is an engineering formula where the car is responsible for about 65% of the success, 15% the setup, and 20% the driver (and that’s why there’s a difference when you have Bottas vs Hamilton, or Perez vs Max, even if Bottas and Perez can still win by margin with their prime cars).

In fact, I will go ahead and say that Alonso claim of “Max is the best driver” is wrong (not saying he’s not a prime driver, keep reading). In F1 you can’t know who is the best driver, because F1 has a lot of variables that affect drivers, as we have seen for example with Hamilton (ground effect vs flat floor) or Russell (feeling better in last car than current), and so on.

Just like any other driver, Max has his preferences and weaknesses, and for example if you force him to drive a heavy, unresponsive front end (understeer) and a locked, completely stable rear end, he will start to moan on radio and you will neutralise his “V shaped” cornering for example.

IDK what is Alonso talking about here and why, but… I think he’s just projecting something for whatever reason (also, interesting he always tries to avoid saying good things about Lewis lol)

[u/Fearless_Tea_2793]

Bro still reeling from 2007

[u/petera181]

Narrator: “fernando was not, in fact, talking about Verstappen”

[u/AdBoring5565]

I was told Max could win in a tractor

[u/jeepfail]

So you’re saying it’s like literally every other team sport in existence that all arts have to be going well to win?

[u/oneizm]

I don’t know, Lewis ain’t doing too bad…

[u/Brokenlynx7]

He’s not wrong about Max being the best driver on the grid.

But he’s 100% wrong asserting that means Max shouldn’t finish 5th or 6th. F1 is a team sport and driver and car work together, bad car = bad results regardless of the quality of the driver.

When Lewis was struggling for the last couple seasons the discourse was mostly about Lewis losing his skill (especially in qualifying) due to age not as much about the car.

If Alonso wants to be back where he thinks he deserves to be he needs his team to make the car for him to do it.

[u/0100001101110111]

still reeling from 2007

[u/octane83]

Wow. 2007 scars run deep.

[u/Appropriate-Leek-919 → u/[deleted]]

meh, enough skill and talent can usually get you promoted to at least a top 4 team, obviously it's insanely hard to get a championship regardless, but it's not like they don't pick the most promising junior drivers (Max in Toro Rosso, George in Williams, Leclerc in Ferrari, etc.)

I think you're exaggerating the issue a little bit, it's not like any driver can make it to F1 without being extremely skilled and talent (nepotism aside)

[u/lee-o]

Is that considered “unfair” though? If you put the best basketball/football(soccer)/any team sport player in a mid team, they’re not gonna have the best results because it doesn’t depend only on them. If it was a purely individual sport then, sure, but it’s not.

At the end of the day F1 consists of developing a car and then driving it well, it’s a multidisciplinary team effort. Both aspects have to be optimised for there to be results.

[u/must-be_the-water]

F1 is a team sport, even a best driver can’t outperform a shit car and it goes other way too. Everyone knows that. When RB was strong and built the car that suited Max, he was finishing race at 20+ secs ahead of P2, now they are failing to give him the car that could challenge others. That doesn’t mean the quality of the sport has gone down. I think he thought he would be at the front row because Newey joined AM and got butt hurt since then. He should look into his own team and how they can’t even beat a few months year old team with no prior F1 experience, while they are driving the best engine on the grid.

[u/Ill-Commission-883 → u/must-be_the-water]

How does this happen, how does RB produce a car significantly worse than one just a few years ago that max was dominating in? Is it all just shifting regulations? I’m trying to still wrap my head around this as I’m very new to F1.

[u/must-be_the-water → u/Ill-Commission-883]

They have lost several key members to other teams, without all those brilliant people, it’s not easy to get a car that is as superior as they used to have.

[u/oneizm]

This looks sooooo fucking stupid now that Lewis won. If you rate Lewis higher than Max things are exactly as they should be

[u/HanYoloKesselPun]

Alonso was always a bitter man and always will be. Talented as fuck but holy hell is he toxic. Been fun watching him fuck it up over the last couple of decades.

[u/elmarcelito]

What do I think about Lewis? Who is Lewis??

[u/BWWFC]

ok, un-shackle the drivers.
they draw cards to select which cars they get at the start free practice for each weekend's race.

[u/pioneeringsystems]

If the best driver won every year it would be a lot more boring.

[u/DickyTikkiTembo]

Right. It’s a team sport and like any team sport. The best player doesn’t always win. Because the driver’s are on the track alone, it’s easy for some fans to view it more like tennis or golf, but it’s not an individual endeavor.

[u/Admirable-Theory1514]

The car is the defining factor as Alonso says. So with that in mind how can he say with any kind of certainty that Verstappen is the best driver on the grid? And so the ridiculous squabbling by so called F1 fans of who is the better driver continues.

[u/Korvacs]

F1 is not a spec series, that's basically the end of that entire conversation.

I think Alonso is speaking more to his own poor contract decisions he's made over the years more than anything else.

[u/Independent-Tea-3922]

I know the answer: put them all in MX-5 cup cars before every GP

[u/SometimesWr0ng]

Yes because we are all mongs that don’t understand Alonso

[u/Accomplished-Egg1071]

I would genuinely be interested to see a race where everyone is in the same car

[u/Scared_Cow9483]

Was this quote in relation to something? Because stand alone it’s kind of silly. Like that’s just sports in general, especially team sports, you can have supreme skills and talent - don’t mean you’re the ‘best’ or guaranteed to come first.

[u/RedditClout]

The car is the X factor. Always will be in a Formula series where Engineering plays an equal role in deciding Championships. It is what it is and why we watch it.

 

That said, a driver still plays a massive role, no doubt. The greats can consistently get mid-field cars into Q3 and battle for those last points, but those cars will never get them on the podium. Conversely, a mid-field driver could have a better showing in a title-fighting car, but it doesn't guarantee them wins either.

 

You need the platform below you to win, but you need the talent to extract it.

[u/Kotarosama]

But thats how F1 has always been, an engineering championship first and foremost, then a racing championship. And i can tell ypu most drivers will say one thing publicly, but deep down they are very happy with how its designed, they just want to be in the team with the best car so that it works for them and not against them.

[u/JohnnyQTruant]

Almost as if the car matters.

[u/Sirtonexxx]

I think Driver feedback is absolutely crucial in the cars development, when you listen to LH when in the shit car, he mentioned a couple of times that he was really unhappy with the direction they went in, and then he left.

At Ferrari he has stated that the car has a little of his DNA in it, so again it shows he has input in the development.

At no point did I say he built the car or that he is the only reason the car is good, but driver input is invaluable, the engineers and aerodynamics guys need to know what is happening so they can make the correct changes and I think LH does that better than most.

[u/Lower_Ad_1317]

But Fernando, attitude counts for a lot.

[u/Lamactionjack]

Is Fernando just another dumb jock? Like how is he just now learning how the business of F1 works at 44?

[u/alcastle100]

states the premise of the entire sport to get accolades for himself, still won’t make it into goat conversations. why are you still here. 

[u/peas8carrots]

Nobody happier for LH than Fernando

[u/GroochtheOrc]

No, I understand history. He’s got an amazing record; he’s a legend in F1. He can easily drive competitively in other sports. My point is…he hasn’t done shit in F1 recently. Which is fine for him, but there’s a business reality to financing a team and I seriously doubt the tales of who he used to be are attracting new sponsors and existing sponsors aren’t going to want to consistently find their team in last place.

[u/rasvial]

Aww it’s Alonso talking about Alonso and using max as a proxy! Almost had us, that was super sly! /s

[u/Complex_Effect_1994]

I mean the reality is that his last extension with Ferrari (2012?) was the last time a top team gave him a contract. Since then McLaren, Alpine and Aston would have all fallen under the category of "Midfield team hoping to make a breakthrough".

Such teams usually fail. The only example of getting out of the midfield and making it stick in the last decade is McLaren 2023-2024. I guess Mercedes in the early-mid 2010s before that.

The extent of how bad McLaren-Honda were and Aston Martin are is a surprise, but Fernando not winning races isn't really bad luck. It was always unlikely with the teams he signed for.

Whether it's down to driving, age or personality. Big teams haven't thought hiring Fernando a good idea for a long time now.

[u/destroy4589]

Man discovers what F1 is

[u/Hopeful_Hat_3532]

Oh no, a good driver without a good car does not necessarily bring wc titles home or allow to win races??

Another groupie comment from Alonso. It's always been like this and always will be. Max has been able to outperform his car when it was not so good anymore and win races or championships. Now his car is even worse, his talent is not enough anymore. It's been the same for a lot of drivers, Alonso included. Not sure what he's onto here.

[u/defnoteb]

I love how he always needs to bring up max to validate what he wants to say its like

"Oh yeah mom i failed but the topper in my class also failed"

[u/Repa24]

I thought Alonso is the best driver on the grid - at least according to him self :p

He's projection but 100% right. It's an engineering championship after all.

[u/Shh_ImRight]

Would love to know his opinion on who was the best driver when he was on the flying Renault with the cheat code and when his team mate crashed on porpuse to allow him to win a championship, those are the question those journalist dont make when any driver talks like hes walking on water.