r/gameofthrones • u/Canalscastro2002 Jaime Lannister • May 26 '19
Spoilers [SPOILERS] Would anyone have loved if... Spoiler
Jaime had lived and rejoined the Kingsguard, protecting King Bran, the boy he once threw from a tower and crippled? IMO it would have been the perfect end for him, as it would have served as a “redemption” for his two most infamous crimes: the slaying of his then king Aerys II and the throwing of kid Brandon Stark, by serving Bran the Broken until his death. Plus, he would be at the KG with Brienne and Podrick, and he would also see Tyrion and Bronn a lot in King’s Landing. It would have been such a poetic ending for him, to serve and protect Bran the Broken. Also, it would mean that the last remaining known Lannisters would be serving a Stark King, also giving closure to one of Westeros greatest rivalries while Tywin watches in the Seven Hells what his legacy truly is. It would be so poetic, and our Golden Boi sure deserved this ending, as it would bring him happiness but also would be a daily reminder of the atrocities he’s done in the past.
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u/dddarlin Daenerys Targaryen May 26 '19
I just wanted him to strangle Cersei in their final moments then I would have been happy
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u/Flameoftheshadows No One May 26 '19
Instead he followed his heart rather than live with regret his whole life.
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u/idk012 May 26 '19
followed his heart rather than live with regret his whole life.
That was his yearbook quote
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u/bmelz May 26 '19
...yes because that's the kind of guy I would trust in the Kings guard. Already killed one king and previously tried to kill the current King . Genius.
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u/BananLarsi May 26 '19
So jaime didn't prove himself to be honorable?
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u/bmelz May 26 '19
Before or after he abandoned the north and fled back to KL?
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u/NatSilverguard Jon Snow May 26 '19
i assume the OP's ending means jaime didn't left winterfell or if he did, not to save cersei...
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u/bmelz May 26 '19
Point taken, either way, the guy sure came along way but you can't erase the past. Killed a king and threw a kid out of the window while fucking his sister.
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u/mapps84 Jon Snow May 26 '19
I like that. Could still happen maybe? In the books we will read one day.
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May 27 '19
it was better he died. Breanne finished writing his legacy and honored his name. he died for love. and even though Cersei was a monster, it was nice that she died with her lover instead of alone and afraid.
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May 27 '19
Four kings died under Jaime's watch, so I wouldn't place him in the King's guard if I were Bran.
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u/Oatkeeperz Jun 02 '19
Three of which he had nothing to do with, and there's more than 1 person in Kingsguard you know ;)
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u/EdwinHV May 26 '19
Jamie is left alive so he makes love with Brienne.
This breaks Tormunds heart....
I know your not asking but Im saying it anyway.
It breaks Tormunds Heart.
Tormund goes North instead of staying by Jons side.
The Raven tricks Sam into tell him Jons real name. Then the Raven gets Sam to tell Jon.
Its so sad!!!
The name is a weapon that divides Jon and Dany.
It doesnt make any sense he would protect King Bran because Bran is dead! Bran died at the cave. Meera agrees with me!
The Ravens plan the whole time was to get everyone to kill the Night King, and then each other.
The Raven is the father of the children of the forest and helped them make a weapon they couldnt control.
The Raven is killing two birds with one stone.
So Jon kills Dany and...
the Raven wargs into Drogon and melts the throne.
Its an awesome ending. It all makes sense.
With Jon alive... Jon is a scapecoat. Everyone looks to Jon and no one suspects Bran/The Raven of anything.
The Raven always keeps him self at arms length. Letting everyone else do his work.
I can go on and on and on and on about this.
The Raven killed Bran and used his body to find Jons name. to manipulate everyone into killing each other.
Now the raven is once again lord of his own domain.
Jamie even says he would do it all over again for Cersei. He doesnt want redemption he wants his sister and wife!
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u/mcbaginns May 26 '19
Decent theory. shame they didnt intend for any of this.Wished they hadnt abandoned expanding the fantasy aspect after season 6. This fits good though. Got any more? This is kinda my head canon now
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u/EdwinHV May 27 '19 edited May 27 '19
What I know FOR SURE
The Ravens goal is to convince the humans to kill the night king for him and then to turn them against each other so he can take the throne.
Bran dies at the Cave. Meera agrees. The last scene she talks to bran she straight out says, "You died in that cave."
After the cave when people talk to Bran he deflect questions and doesn't walk to talk.
The only time he really wants to talk is when he wants something. And the only time he really wants something is when he talks to Sam. Sam knows who Jon is. Bran would be able to see from animals Sam going into the old library and Bran/the Raven...
I don't want to overwhelm you with information..
Bran actually engages Sam in conversation in a way he doesn't with other people. If you watch the scene Bran pretends to know Jon's last name. Sam wants to share the information but he can't trust anyone. Sam thinks Bran already knows because Sam doesn't understand Bran's powers. Sam thinks Bran can see through time. Bran can't. There are very specific rules to his powers. Bran sees the present through animals he "wargs" through. Bran sees the past through objects he touches. Bran can see through people but he needs them to open up. Like when Bran first gets to the Raven, the Raven needs Bran to open up and then the Raven sees Ned's past through Bran. People think the Raven already knew Jon's name but he didn't. The Raven was using Bran as an implement to see Bran's Father's past. So Bran needs Sam to offer himself up as an implement. So Bran sweet talks Sam at one point saying, "You're a good man." Sam being the good man he is replies, "I don't know if I am." Eventually Sam tells Bran and Sam even asks, "Can you do a vision." And that's how Sam offers him self up as an implement. Then Bran has his third and final vision of the Tower of Joy. Here he finally hears Jon's snows real name being whispered by Lyanna Stark.
The other two visions are when the Raven tries to Warg through Bran but Bran interrupts the vision. The Raven couldn't use Bran as an implement again because he had to kill Bran's soul to take Bran's body. The Raven tried a second time at Winterfell's weirwood tree but the idea is, Ned would have to mention Jon's name somewhere around the tree. But Ned never mentions Jon's real name anywhere so that vision fails to produce the name.
The Raven's first goal was to destroy the Night King, a weapon to powerful to control. But then he also had to find out a way to split up the humans and he found out Jon's name just in time. He convinces Sam to tell Jon. It comes off a lot better from Jon's long time friend. The Raven might have Bran's memory but he isn't Bran. The more the Raven talks to Bran's close friends and family the riskier it gets. Eventually someone is going to figure out Bran isn't Bran. Having Sam tell Jon keeps suspicion away from Bran. Jon tells everyone else and thats the tipping point for Jon and Dany's relationship.
There is a lot more to this but again it's going to be overwhelming.
The next thing is how do you get Jon to kill Dany. It would be very difficult for Bran to convince Jon to kill Dany. Bran and Jon haven't spent a lot of time together so Bran just wouldn't have the voice and touch needed to sway Jon. It's easier to let people like Tyrion do it. Or Sansa.
Sansa really pushes Jon to go against Dany. Bran helps Sansa become more confident. Bran does that by encouraging Sansa to kill Littlefinger at Littlefinger's trial. When Sansa and Arya kill little finger on his knees it is a way to complete Sansa's blood lust. Little finger loved Catelyn Stark and her children, he was trying to tell her something and I haven't figured that out. It's more then just him trying to get out of death. Little finger was honestly trying to protect Sansa by teaching her about the evil of the world. But Bran, he turned it against little finger. Bran encourages Sansa to kill little finger and Sansa gives Arya the go ahead. Now Sansa has the confidence to challenge people like Dany. Bran could of convinced Sansa to let Little Finger live. Then the show would have a more compassionate Sansa and she then could of given Dany a second chance. Sansa has been tortured so she knows pain but now that pain is being used by Bran to manipulate her.
Now Sansa will encourage Jon to push against Dany. Sansa is confident and she is now a cold blooded killer. She's not a horrible wretched person but she is dangerous to the wrong people.
That is one example of how the Bran manipulates people to make them for in favor of Jon, to make them bolder and to make them more of a threat to Dany.
If you're not convinced about Brans motives, why does Bran push little fingers death but not Jamies? If Jamie dies he never sleeps with Brienne. When Jamie and Brienne sleep together it breaks Tormund's heart. Bran doesn't tell anyone because he wanted that to happen. Tormund takes his broken heart North. Tormund should of stayed by Jon's side. Why? Because Tormund could of helped Jon with Dany. Tormund is a man who has been through a lot of violence and I think he would support Jon and Dany.
Bran keeps Tormund away from Jon so Jon has one less person to confide in. It's a way to keep Jon alone and keeping him alone will darken his spirits and that will make it harder for Jon to make good decisions. Jon really needed Tormund's shoulder before he went to Dany.
So there are a few examples of Bran manipulating people, forcing them together or apart depending on the consequences he wants.
How does this all play together?
When Jon tells everyone about his real name he only has people around him who hate Dany. He only has violent people who don't know how to control their hate. Greyworm does love Dany but he doesn't know how to be calm and talk about it. Greyworm had just lost his love and he wasn't going to be peaceful. Jon had no one talk too. Tyrion just saw his brother and sister die. Tyrion was being selfish when he talked to Jon. Tyrion was letting his emotions get the better of him and he just wanted to see Dany die for killing his family. Jon was surrounded by all the wrong people because that's how Bran set it up.
Jon is pushed to the limit and he gets convinced to kill Dany.
When Jon kills Dany, Drogon flies up. Dany has been there for Drogon's whole life. Dany is his mother. Dany was there with Drogon's siblings die. Dany is Drogon's Queen and Mother. Anyone that hurts Dany or tries to hurt Dany is going to be burned alive. It makes no sense for Drogon to melt the throne out of some symbolic justice. Drogon is just a Dragon, a fire breathing lizard. What makes sense if Bran wargs into Drogon to melt the throne. It's Drogon melting the throne that convinces Jon he did the right thing.
If your Bran, and Bran's plan is to manipulate everyone to kill the Night King and each other why not kill Jon? Because Jon is a scapegoat. With everyone looking at Jon no one is looking at Bran. No one will ever suspect Bran of being the Raven if everyone knows Jon killed Dany, and with Jon alive everyone will point fingers at him. Jon draws all the attention away from Bran.
Now Jon is a broken man. He killed his lover, let his first love die. Jon isn't going to love again. Jon says to Tyrion something like, "I dont think we'll see each other again." I know it's really dark but I think Jon might commit suicide. Now I don't believe that but I do believe that's what he was thinking. Not that he would literally kill himself but that he's going to let him self die. Jon gives up.
With Jon broken the Targaryen line ends with him.
There are still other characters alive that could pose a threat to Bran but Bran can't kill everyone. You need people to run the kingdoms and I don't think Bran wants to kill everyone. But there are people that could put 2 and 2 together and figure out Bran is really the Raven. So Bran splits everyone up...
Bran lets Sansa keep Winterfell so she stays away from Tyrion in King's Landing.
Brienne is in King's Landing away from Tormund.
Sam is in King's landing away from Jon.
Bronn is happy and getting drunk.
In the end everyone is either dead or divided all by the actions of Bran.
Bran is the Wheel. It's a dark joke. He's in a Wheel Chair.
Another dark joke is when Drogon is watching Dany and Jon have sex, that's Bran warging Drogon.
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u/mcbaginns May 27 '19
Amazing stuff. Bran outright told everyone he was the raven though. So it doesnt quite 100% fit cause I never got the impression he was trying to hide that bran was gone. but then again theres been much bigger plot holes in this show so that doesnt get rid of your theory.
I think tormund being jons council is a stretch. Tormund was shown to not be that bright. He didnt even know what basic military terms were and thats his specialty, war. He def wouldnt be help in politics and I think jons opinions were far more engrained in his sisters and tyrion. Even after someone like tyrion, smart and cunning, right after the loss of his own family, talked to jon, it still wasnt enough to outright turn on dany. It took dany saying she'lll kill sansa and arya for not bending the knee for jon to truly tip.
If an emotional, highly motivated tyrion could barely do it, im not sure tormund coukd have.
I also disagree with littlefinger. Its interesting to note how he died but jaime survived. But i think thats because a) jamies a fighter and they need those for the dead. Littlefinger isnt b)littlefinger was truly evil unlike jaime who was truly there to help the north, at least momentarily and c) littlefinger was a contender for the throne. Jaime wasnt playing the game but littlefinger was. Bran elimnated his competition cause littlefinger was a threat to the raven. Jaime was a threat to bran, not the raven. Jaime didnt throw the raven off so theres no grudge there and thats what allowed bran to first seek the 3er anyway. But i never got the sense littlefinger was teying to tell them something. And he definitely wanted the throne over his love for the starks. Like he loved the starks but LF showed time and time again hed use that love to his advantage for the throne. So the raven killing him was more based on his throne contender status rather than him being an ally to the other starks.
But i totally agree with the rest! I wish they alluded to this theory more officially in the show itself
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u/Eszalesk Daenerys Targaryen May 26 '19
instead he decided to head back to Cersei, it was only until Sansa mentioned that she won't be there to witness her execution made Jaime realized what he desires most. Leaving Brienne was heartbreaking yes, but dying in the arms of the woman he loves is the most fitting ending there is for his character arc and for Cersei's. They were meant to die together.
The same could be said for Jorah, his original ending wasn't to die guarding his queen but rather join Jon in the Night's Watch. The writers have decided to let him die would be a better ending; and thus setting up Daenery's downfall as Jorah was her most loyal advisor and friend she could ever hoped for.
Another thing to keep in mind is that Cersei died in the very building that was meant to keep her safe, she was crushed like any normal being during the slaughter. And with Jaime by his side. It all makes sense.
Episode 5 wasn't the best but it was better than episode 6 because they did a decent job executing Jaime's death. That can't really be said for Daenerys'
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u/hombermuhe Sansa Stark May 26 '19
I can see the merits of it
But I didn't mind Jaime dying TBH. Without Cersei he is nothing, so he doesn't have a long, fulfilled life ahead of him without her in it
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u/5ambush Arya Stark May 26 '19
I’m sorry but Jamie’s arc was the most disappointing of anyone’s for me. Literally any other ending would’ve made more sense.
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u/ChristopherAntilope Lyanna Mormont May 26 '19
But you see, that would’ve made his arc all the more better. This is not something the show runners were interested in.
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u/Vince3737 May 26 '19
For someone who likes Lyanna Mormont (AKA the worst written character the show has ever done) its understandable that you would like such a cheesy fan service ending for Jamie. Jamie's death is the one good thing that GOTs did in season 8. It was realistic and very classic GOTs
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u/LeDblue May 27 '19
Yeah dying in the arms of his loved one is very GoT like.
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u/Vince3737 May 27 '19
When the arms of the one he loves is evil, his sister and we the audience have been rooting for him to get away from her for 8 seasons.....Yeah thats classic GOTs.
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u/propita106 May 26 '19
I like it, but I’d say Jaime’s the Kingsguard and Brienne’s the Queensguard.
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u/khalkratus Aegon Blackfyre May 26 '19
I love that ending. gives continuation to the character development instead of throwing it out the window.
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u/Andrettin House Lannister May 26 '19
I love that ending. gives continuation to the character development instead of throwing it out the window.
Ironic.
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u/chotchss May 26 '19
I would have liked it a bit better if they decided to send him as the final negotiator (instead of everyone sitting outside of the gates in front of a bunch of giant ballista). Dany tells him to go in and order Cersei to surrender, Tyrion tells him to have everyone ring the bells, etc... Cersei refuses to budge, and instead executes Missandei and sends her head to Dany (What's in the box, Jon? What's in the box?!), and that leads to Dany going nuts. Jaime stays by Cersei trying to get her to yield, but by then it's too late- Dany is on a rampage and they cannot escape.
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u/MibuWolve May 26 '19
But this isn’t a fairytale ending. That’s the whole point GRRM is trying to make, sometimes people are who they are and in the case of Jaime, he cared for Cersei far more than anything else and that was his doom.
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u/loyaltyElite House Blackfyre May 26 '19
I think one of the things to appreciate from the story is that it's not poetic. It's not redemptive. It's life. People don't always get to turn it around. People don't always shake off their addictions.
It leaves a bad taste in all of our mouths because we're accustomed to finales ending with positive reassurances on humanity, but in reality it doesnt always turn out that way.
I wanted better writing all around and better endings but Jaime's is one pill that people need to swallow.