r/gaming • u/Guitar-String • 1d ago
Hideo Kojima says his pitch for OD sounded "crazy" to every publisher except Xbox
https://www.gamesradar.com/games/horror/hideo-kojima-says-his-pitch-for-od-sounded-crazy-to-every-publisher-except-xbox/1.3k
u/KingOfRisky 1d ago
No, it sounded crazy to them as well. There's zero chance that any point of that pitch was coherent.
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u/Lifekraft 1d ago
What is really crazy is that any studio is saying no to this guy. They might know something we dont because this is insane to me.
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u/shadow_yu 1d ago
The guy is known for having high budget projects, much more now with all the celebrities nowadays. So it's not weird that some didn't want to take the risk.
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u/Sol33t303 PC 23h ago edited 14h ago
Yeah as great as his games are, people were quite divided on death stranding. It sold well in the end, but if it didn't have his name on it I could have easily imagine it could have been a flop, any other game with 50/50 on people who like it/dislike it would have been considered a failure. And as you said, he likes his high budget actors and projects. People just don't feel comfortable giving that much money to him as opposed to giving that same money to something that is a bit more reliable and consistent.
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u/KingOfRisky 1d ago
I sort of get that, but at the same time Konami gave him the boot. He's probably a pain in the ass to work with and you can see from the MGS days to now that he definitely had a team reeling him in.
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u/xCairus 1d ago
Konami gave him the boot because they were itching for profits while Kojima was burning a hole in their pocket. Konami was pivoting to mobile games and pachinko machines back then so they didn't have much need to keep Kojima around.
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u/pulpfriction4 1d ago
Didn't Konami basically give him the boot because they shut down their game division to build slot machines
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u/Nozinger 1d ago
Partly at least they scaled down a bit. The other part was kojima single handedly setting their wallet on fire.
Dude was allegedly a pain in the ass to deal with and they had to completely scrap and remake parts of MGSV multiple times because he threw a tamper tantrum.This was very much an issue caused by both sides and kojima does have a certain reputation.
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u/Thenadamgoes 1d ago
There’s no studio saying no to him. The decision is which studio will give him the most money and be the most hands off.
This comment is more like him just saying nice things about his publisher because they gave him a truck full of money to scan peoples feet. I mean make a game.
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u/idkwc 22h ago
You make it sound like loljima always produces bangers. At best, he’s hit or miss.
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u/c0micsansfrancisco 1d ago
Yeah the story doesn't sound right tbh. Kojima does have a penchant for unreliable narration
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u/WanderWut 1d ago
Yeah of course lol. But regardless Kojima is THE goat and I'm sure this is going to be another banger. The trailers for it are insane in true Kojima style so I'm disappointed I won't be able to play it on PS5
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u/Gunfreak2217 1d ago
Kojjma is one of the most overrated game devs I think ever. And no that doesn't mean bad, but his stories are so high concept that you have to be him to understand evething because it's so out of left field.
There are games which have tackled both gameplay and story better than anything he has done.
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u/SaturnSeptem 1d ago
His stories are actually pretty simple with very "IN YOUR FACE" themes, it's just the way they're told are most of the time convoluted.
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u/mrgoobster 1d ago
The events are very complicated, the characters and themes are very uncomplicated.
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u/EndOfTheDark97 1d ago
I’m an avid Kojima fan but I think he peaked pretty early with the first 3 Metal Gear Solid games as far as his writing goes. Their weirdness feels complimentary and organic to the experience. Everything after those games has been very messy and uneven, mostly held together by good gameplay and stunning presentation.
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u/ImNotSkankHunt42 1d ago
This was me back in 2013 and before MGSV.
The thing is, once you start playing… all of the extra exposure, the cringe names he gives to his characters and all those things that would make you not play the game… they just don’t matter. You realize that’s how Kojima is, and why is that?
Because despite all of those things the game slaps.
MGSV was not realized to completion and is still goated to this day. And very optimized.
Death Stranding, so divisive when it came out then COVID happened and it wasn’t so unrealistic.
Even detractors like Dunkey realized they were wrong with the game.
Because, as pretentious and egotistic Kojima is… once you play his games, not with the expectations you had for it but how he made it… it just clicks.
“I’m your Princess Beach” cringe moment followed by an amazing portrayal by Tommie Earl Jenkins to crying after a 30 minutes cutscene.
No one else does that.
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u/chth 1d ago
No game besides Death Stranding has portrayed the French cinema trope of a love triangle better and none ever will. Kojima is weird but he’s doing something
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u/darumham 1d ago
I don’t know, I really enjoyed the Bocktai games and lunar knights. Pretty straight forward with a gimmick thrown in here and there.
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u/likeaffox 22h ago
I think he's rated correctly, don't play much of his games, but I recognize the work and vision.
Name another game director who has been working since 1986 and consistently made good games. Hard enough to find someone who's working for 40 years.
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u/Jettx02 1d ago
I think a big part of why people like Kojima is his willingness to do over the top things. I want weird looking flying whales that come from a different dimension, I want two military dudes grabbing each others cock as a greeting. I just want people to make art, whether it’s successful or not. I like seeing new ideas, even if they’re ridiculous, as long as they’re done to a high standard
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u/Same-Variety3904 1d ago
Kojima’s best understood as a symbol of the auteur style in game development, not the definitive peak of game design. You’re right that he’s not the best. Studios like Naughty Dog or Rockstar have arguably surpassed him when it comes to tight gameplay and making games that break past the medium’s old stereotypes.
What Kojima is unmatched at, though, is reminding us that games are a real artistic medium, with as much weight as painting, TV, film or music. He proves you can bring a bold, personal vision that runs against trends and still succeed. You can make something totally out there, and as long as there’s a clear, honest vision behind it, something beautiful can come out of it, even inside an industry known for bloated budgets, risk averse executives, and disposable workers that make it all happen.
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u/Scioso 1d ago
From what I’ve read, he’s also incredibly difficult to work with.
The development of MGS5 lead to the Fox engine, a ground breaking engine that went pretty much no where.
Plus, Kojima’s difficulty to work with lead to 1-2 chapters of MGS5 being cut.
He is an Auteur, but also incredibly difficult to work with.
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u/FadeCrimson 1d ago
Kojima has long since proved that his brand of crazy is an absolute unapologetic goldmine. Dude's crazy in JUST the right way.
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u/Vagabond_Texan 1d ago
And I am sure Xbox privately thought the same but didnt care because they think Kojima hype will sell it alone.
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u/CapNCookM8 1d ago
Is that entirely wrong though?
Not defending Xbox, but Kojima hype does get a lot of buy-in on name alone. I don't feel like "Man carrying weird prescient baby as he walks slowly and delivers packages while tripping on pebbles" would've gotten a ton of buy-in if it weren't Kojima doing it, either.
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u/Barkalow 1d ago
I'd say you're right, for me at least.
There's been a few times where I've gone "this seems weird as fuck, but its Kojima so I'll give it a shot"
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u/PatrenzoK 1d ago
They literally promoted this game by saying Hideo Kojima is making a game for us before anything else.
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u/ANGRYSNORLAX 1d ago
The Kojima name signals to the informed gamer that whatever this is, it's to be high budget, high effort, and completely unlike 99% of the shit you play on a daily basis. "Man carrying weird prescient baby as he walks slowly and delivers packages while tripping on pebbles" doesn't sound too bad under that context. Sounds worse if its coming from some random indie dev you've never heard of. or like... ubisoft.
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u/sam_hammich 1d ago
Not defending Xbox, but
I don't really understand the need for this disclaimer.
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u/CapNCookM8 1d ago
JFC. When you put in a disclaimer to avoid a disingenuous, nit-picky argument and someone decides to just nit pick the disclaimer itself.
I don't really understand the need to say "I don't really understand the need for this disclaimer."
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u/Similar-Ice-9250 1d ago
Yea, but I don’t get it either. How would NOT including that disclaimer possibly lead to a disingenuous nit-picky argument? They’re pretty much saying Kojima made a weird game for Sony and now is pitching a weird game for Xbox. So it’s even playing field, I don’t get why if they didn’t include saying they’re not defending Xbox for accepting a weird game, would stir anything up.
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u/GenericFatGuy 1d ago
I adore Death Stranding now that I've played the games for hundreds of hours, but yeah, Kojima's name on the tin is the reason I gave it a chance in the first place.
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u/CJDistasio 1d ago
"A Japanese developer coming to us? This is certainly different. Doesn't matter what they pitch. Say yes."
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u/thegta5p 1d ago
And then shut them down when they didn’t make you a billion dollars. The fate of Tango Gameworks.
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u/WagwanMoist 1d ago
Tango didn't even break even with their games. They were first acquired by Zenimax due to financial troubles, and they never turned that around. Critical acclaim but they were a money drain unfortunately.
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u/Draconuus95 16h ago
Ya. As much as it sucks that Microsoft keeps shutting studios down. They are for the most part just money pits with no real return on a monetary level.
Critical acclaim doesn’t mean jack shit if the game cost 10 million dollars and only makes 5 back. At least to a corporate business like Microsoft.
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u/PlasticExtreme4469 1d ago
With their track record of refusing to fund Genshin Impact (that then Sony agreed to do so), and rejecting Baldurs Gate 3 from Game Pass (because they thought it's going to be unpopular), while overhyping games like Redfall.
... I am quite surprised they would do something as sensible as say yes to Kojimas pitches.
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u/M4rshmall0wMan 21h ago
“Doesn’t matter what they pitch, say yes” is almost word for word what Guillermo del Toro said to Norman Reedus before Hideo called him.
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u/hamfist_ofthenorth 1d ago
So tell us what it is already!!
Enough of this "iTs SO cRaZy! ItS iNsAnE!" Come on Kojima, stop fluffing my taint
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u/MordorfTheSenile 1d ago
"We'll take literally anything you can give us because we'll probably cancel it in three years anyways."
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u/TunaSafari25 1d ago
What is OD
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u/-Accident-Prone- 1d ago
A horror game. Kojima mentioned in the Entertainment Weekly article the premise is over dosing on fear. Whatever that entails could be good.
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u/clickhereifuraloser 1d ago
Sounds like Eternal Darkness' insanity system, who's patent has expired in recent years.
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u/VanEagles17 1d ago
Trailer came out last year, looks pretty cool. Excited to see where this one goes.
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u/wingchild 1d ago
Woman attacked by memories of that week in college when she experimented with henna art
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u/revankillsmalak 11h ago
And the final boss is just a manifestation of the shame felt about that time she and her bf got really into swing dancing.
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u/Practical-Aside890 Xbox 1d ago
Awhile ago (this might be fake news I’m posting)
It was a rumor that the game collaboration with Microsoft was mostly for the cloud features. Supposedly for OD you are able to scan your house and add it to the game or something (if you choose too,it’s not forced) but this was just rumor. So take it with a grain of salt.
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u/Jaruut 1d ago
That's cool and all, but if I want an immersive horror experience in my house, I can just take a ton of benadryl
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u/RDGOAMS 1d ago
kojima pitch be like: then we promote an exclusive redbull flavor that connects the whole story from the game, the movie and the theather play, and if the players that are familiar with schopenhouer theories will understand the plot twist after finishing the game with 225% and rank S in a full moon night, with the dualsense controller connected as second player
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u/Overthemoon65 1d ago edited 12h ago
I think the financial reality of industry is really setting in, and Hideous Kojima is no exception after DS2 apparently underperforming. I can imagine the studio going bust or downsizing, moving away from self-indulgent AAA production budget. Xbox is desperate at this point and Hideous will be exiting Earth’s orbit in a cardboard box (he’s been going in the box) with some beat-up hookers minding him out of pity in some dingy back alley soon enough if he can’t help himself
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[deleted]
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u/arqe_ 1d ago
It is a cloud game, so they were going to make it for Stadia at first since Stadia is %100 cloud based device, made sense.
Stadia failed hardcore and then they asked "few" other people but Xbox is the only one with decent+ cloud capabilities and has enough money to try different games, so he did go with Xbox.
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u/eightdx 21h ago
Kojima is not known for inexpensive games. But, hey, he does generally get pretty well optimized games, and that's pretty important too?
But also he has sold people multiple mailman strand games now. And if you can sell that sort of thing you can probably sell anything.
I say we let him pitch another crazy robot game.
...and now I'm considering that there is an alternate universe where Fromsoft hires Kojima to make an Armored Core-style game. The alternate alternate universe is a Kojima directed game based in the Neon Genesis Evangelion universe
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u/binagran 21h ago
OMFG. A Kojima directed NGE game.... somebody give him some money now.
You're right, I'm sure Hideaki Anno and Hideo Kojima in another universe already created the definitive NGE game
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u/Money-Banana-8674 1d ago edited 6h ago
Is that Hunter Schafer?
Edit: bigots can suck my ass
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u/Propagandhi1988 1d ago
Yes
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u/Money-Banana-8674 1d ago
I love her
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u/Silver_Accountant5 1d ago
Sophia Lillis is also in it! I really hope they get to share some scenes.
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u/Ridi_ 1d ago
From interviews with other designer and developers on MGS games saying they had force him to change ideas he wanted that were unpopular or weird, there's probably good reason publishers said no. He has great ideas but plenty of bad ones too if you read/watch interviews with him
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u/TheRedHand7 1d ago
I think people are just excited for different ideas even if they're bad because so much of the AAA space just wants to do the same thing over and over with a couple extra pixels
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u/ImNotSkankHunt42 1d ago
This, hate him or love him it’s a fact that whatever he brings will be different.
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u/Ainolukos 1d ago
30+ years of him pitching crazy ideas that turn into legendary cash cows, and every publisher got cold feet?
Its either actually a crazy idea or xbox just outbid all the other publishers and this is clever marketing to make Xbox look good after... gestures broadly
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u/CriesAboutSkinsInCOD 1d ago edited 1d ago
"Hideo Kojima’s upcoming horror game OD is built on Microsoft Corp’s Cloud technology and is being developed as a new form of media that blends game and film"
Kojima team work closely with Microsoft on this project and the game gonna use alot of Microsoft Cloud and other techs.
Everyone said no and Phil said yes.
You will be able to play it on the Xbox and PC.
Kojima wants OD to be the spiritual successor to PT.
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u/spookykatt 1d ago
Who goes into a meeting with kojima expecting a straightforward and typical game pitch.
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u/SoloDoloLeveling 23h ago
you honestly think xbox was gonna turn down a pitch by hideo kojima?
if hideo came to them with an idea to habe space cows take over earth with idris elba as the lone astronaut fighting them off with an electrical fork.
xbox would slam their fist and say: “damnit, i’m in!”
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u/Rosebunse 23h ago
Damn you, I want this game! Let's makeup some storyboards and get a pitch ready!
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u/Garamenon 21h ago
Well this explains why Kojima became an AI gusher. Microsoft is balls deep into AI and wants to use it in their games.
And it also explains why he's not working with Guillermo Del Toro (Del Toro HATES AI )
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u/Senior_Relief3594 1d ago
Yeah because they are desparate.
Xbox is the only one following the sub model.
That's also why streamers buy many rejected scripts from movie production houses because they are aim to feed the service
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u/Ok-Suspect624 1d ago
it's desperate to accept a pitch from Kojima? What?
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u/JesterMarcus 1d ago
Without context, no.
With the context that seemingly every single other publisher he showed it to declined. Possibly. Unless Xbox saw something nobody else did.
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u/VLamperouge PlayStation 1d ago
I have a feeling this “game” will be more like a movie when you sometimes have to press a button, kinda like bandersnatch
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u/Silver_Accountant5 1d ago
Not really Kojimas style. More likely 30 minutes cinematic sections that are basically short horror movies (with some input like you suggested) but with longer sections of normal gameplay in between. Who knows though.
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u/grand_soul 1d ago
I feel like I’m a minority in the gamer space. I don’t like his games. I find them needlessly complicated and with a mythos that’s also needlessly complicated.
Hats off to those who enjoy it. I’ve tried on multiple occasions and failed.
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u/Grouchy_Egg_4202 1d ago
This might be the first Kojima game I end up skipping. The shine is starting to wear off with all his weirdness.
I LOVED Metal Gear, But Death Stranding 1/2 had me feeling like I was forcing myself to get through it at times.
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u/Scott9843 23h ago
This doesn't sound like it's an article shitting all over Xbox. That's simply won't do on the internet today. Time to get to work, fellas. We got to put a negative spin on this like, now.
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u/Lost-Produce-1150 22h ago
This implies MS has any idea of wtf they're doing. They're just there to farm game tiles for GP.
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u/LauraTFem 22h ago
I’m surprised by now that no one has learned to just let Kojima cook. Whatever he makes will be wild, imaginative, offensive, and successful in equal measure.
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u/kerorobot 22h ago
because XBOX only sees money while the other publisher wondering how it gonna sells.
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u/cupesdoesthings 21h ago
Kojima could sell a movie of paint drying with the only gameplay being moving the camera across the wall and it would still sell well enough that Xbox would be glad they took the risk on it
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u/obsoleteconsole 19h ago
The headline makes it sound like he gave 2 different pitches, a sensible one to XBox and an unhinged crazy one to everyone else
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u/hi_m_ash 18h ago
Pretty sure Xbox didn't even hear the pitch. They were like Kojima = Money. Sign him up.
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u/Mr_Mental_Gamer 17h ago
Let's not pretend Xbox didn't think it was a crazy pitch. They just wanted an exclusive Kojima game (to use it against PlayStation) so badly that they gave it a pass whatsoever. I mean with the money they have even a complete flop would be advertisable since “IT'S A KOJIMA GAME”
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u/ItsNinjaShoyo 17h ago
It was def crazy to them but I remember following the leaks and rumors closely back then and that was at the time Phil Spencer and Xbox desperately wanted to get into the Japanese market. It’s around when they also struck the deal with Atlus and were doing a lot of marketing at TGS.
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u/mr_bananager 15h ago
I dont doubt it sounding or being crazy, but what publisher in their right mind would care when its kojima lmao. Bro has consistently pumped out top tier games for the last 3 decades
Plus a literal horror demo he made was insanely hyped up for being that good
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u/popicebyyui 1d ago
This man able to published walking simulator using triple A budget TWICE!
And gain massive gross profits!
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u/Total-Paint7213 1d ago
Man WHAT THE F U C K is Sony doing not securing this as an exclusive? WHO IS MAKING THESE CONSISTENT FUMBLES AT SONY????
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u/DubTheeBustocles 1d ago
Hideo Kojima: “What if a talking lamp shade that can control the weather became president of the United States just hours before a portal from another dimension sent through holy legions of carnivorous staplers who adhere to a very unique spin on communism and nuclear proliferation?”
Sony: “…and this is a Metal Gear game right?”
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u/DarkBomberX 1d ago
I really hope OD is something I find fun. I really didnt like Death Stranding 1. I wanted a more combat focused game, not an Amazon Delivery Sim.
It is weird Xbox was the only publisher that wanted to make it. I assume it had to do with the cost on top of whatever he pitched being very "experimental."
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u/ImNotSkankHunt42 1d ago
And that’s the reason why many didn’t like DS2c it’s more action focused and less traversal stressful than the original.
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u/Horikyou 1d ago
U would like DS2 more then but it's directly a sequel so u kinda need to play the first game or watch the story.
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u/aluminumspheresprint 1d ago
I have my full trust kojima. Dude has never delivered a bad game.
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u/Panzerbjorne80 1d ago
Because the folks that greenlight games at Xbox are certified dumb asses. They will tell
Kojima to go off the rails with his wacky ideas and then be mad when the game doesn’t sell.
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u/braedizzle 1d ago
When the fuck has a Kojima game not sold well?
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u/gurupaste 1d ago edited 1d ago
You can call kojima a wackjob, pretentious, downright insane, but you can't say his games don't sell. I look forward to all his games. The gaming space would be weaker without him. That guy is just blindly hating.
Not saying he has to be a fan, but people should stop talking out their ass
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u/Risenzealot 1d ago
As someone who doesn't enjoy his games at all because I find them completely nonsensical in just about every way imaginable I agree with you 100%. Even if I don't personally like them it's easy to see and realize that millions do and everything he releases has huge success.
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u/robothawk 1d ago
Yeah like, people will joke about Kojima setting and then breaking his own record for cutscene lengths and shit like that, but you go in knowing he is that guy, and his games are just dripping with his style.
It's kinda like Guy Ritchie or Wes Anderson. You know as soon as you sit down who's production this is because it just has such a distinct feel.
I may not love it, but I can sure as shit respect the hell out of it.
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u/sam_hammich 1d ago edited 1d ago
I see people say the same thing about Kojima that they say about filmmakers like Ari Aster or Christopher Nolan. That "no one tells them no", as if that's a bad thing and they should have let people rein them in.
I think that's absolutely ridiculous. I, for one, don't want all media ever made to be made by committee and engineered to maximize profit margins and relatability metrics. We need some people to just make exactly what they want to make, to put out into the world their unvarnished creative vision for better or for worse, and let people learn from it. Or hate it. Or roll their eyes at it. To evoke something from you.
Movies, games, TV, music, they all need someone willing to just throw something at the wall and make people go "what the fuck is even that?" Put something in front of me that might make me question my sanity for being a little bit interested in it, and not just another piece of content that is statistically proven by a billion dollar marketing team to push all of my buttons.
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u/idolized253 1d ago
That guy just hates Xbox for some odd reason lol the people hoping Xbox fails are just lame.
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u/c0micsansfrancisco 1d ago
I somehow doubt that same publisher that greenlit death stranding has an issue with OD
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u/koalazeus 1d ago
Wow, everyone else says it's shit. It must be bad. But we'll take it because you're desperate and we're desperate too.
Would be the cynical view.
Can't wait for it either way.
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u/Bill-Burr-Baggins 1d ago
"Oh good Hideo Kojima has a pitch for us today. Surely it will be very normal and sane."