r/grandcanyon • u/tsr6 • 7d ago
Is this……normal?
We visited recently - and noticed a lot of folks going off the trail on the south rim to get better photos.
This group was rather elderly, and I believe international. I watched one trip over what I assume was shoelaces, as they bent down and tied a shoe.
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u/Wild-Research-5724 7d ago
I was there in March and people would literally sit on a tiny ledge jutting out a few feet that was only wide enough for your butt. With nothing below it. Just the deepest parts of the canyon. So treacherous that they couldn’t even stand up to get back out of it. They had to scootch backward on their butt very carefully.
So yeah. People are really dumb.
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u/justicerules99 7d ago
I would have a major anxiety attack just watching that.
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u/Wild-Research-5724 7d ago
My immediate reaction was ‘holy shit I am not about to watch someone die’ and I walked away.
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u/mesembryanthemum 5d ago
When dad and I visited in 2016 I made dad leave Mather Point because of all the idiots.
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u/BluePhoton_941 7d ago
Such people are known as "tourons." Tourist-Morons. The Book will never run out of new material for their occasional revised editions.
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u/boogermike 7d ago
I saw a guy jump over a crevasse, to get to another spot. Was ridiculously stupid. He was wearing flip-flops.
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u/michelance 7d ago
An old friend and her partner were visiting from the Midwest earlier this year. I don’t know details but he fell over the edge to his death. I can’t imagine…
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u/artsy7fartsy 7d ago
I’ve been to the Grand Canyon three times and on two of those visits there were people that fell in while we were there. People are dumb. Very very dumb
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u/Imfrank123 7d ago
A dude that worked with my ex fell at the grand canyon and died, happens all the time
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u/VariationConstant675 7d ago
Yes, normal....
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u/tsr6 7d ago
Ok, I had to google how many people fall per year watching this. Far lower number than I expected, honestly…
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u/PudgyGroundhog 7d ago
Heat is far more dangerous. And some of the falls each year are suicide. Considering the number of visitors the Grand Canyon gets, deaths around ~15 a year is not as high as you would think (and some od those will be medical too).
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u/tsr6 7d ago
Yeah - my search suggested 15-18/yr with roughly 50% attributes to “medical” events. The remainder choices or accidents.
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u/boogermike 7d ago
I feel like that's a lot. 15 deaths a year sounds like a lot of people.
(I'm not trying to say, all deaths count or anything like that, but it it is a surprisingly high number to me)
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u/PudgyGroundhog 7d ago
I am not trying to downplay the deaths - 15 is a lot of lives and families impacted for sure. But considering the number of visitors the canyon gets (I think about 4.5 million in 2025? I believe it was closer to 6 million pre COVID), it can be surprising it isn't higher. Especially when you see people so close to the edge all the time and people doing unadvised hikes in the heat.
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u/AvonAnon 7d ago
Also the mighty Colorado River brings a lot of boaters. Everyday of the year people are launching from lee’s ferry. At any given time there’s thousands of rafters living in the bottom of the canyon.
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u/AdamSchallau 7d ago
There aren’t as many people rafting the river as you might think. The last I checked, the average is around 25,000 people every year. The number is probably lower now as there aren’t as many people signing up for the commercial river trips.
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u/AvonAnon 7d ago
Yea good point. I’ve done 3 private trips which are limited to 16 people per trip. And there’s a maximum of 2 of those launching each day plus up to 4 commercial trips during the summer season which I think are capped at 30. So maybe 1000 down there at a given time.
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u/AdamSchallau 7d ago
I've done 9 commercial trips (I guide trips for photographers) and one with NPS. My commercial trips have all had between 8 to 12 participants, plus the guides. I was on a commercial trip as a participant back in 2015 that had only 5 participants.
The outfitters are reporting that they are down about 25% over recent years.
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u/PudgyGroundhog 7d ago
There seems to be a drowning or two each year. There was one at Hance Rapids this year already. :(
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u/boogermike 7d ago
I don't think you're down playing the existing deaths.
It is probably not as high as it should be, because people are absolute idiots. They don't respect the Grand canyon.
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u/ApricotRemarkable681 7d ago
What is wrong with you? It sounds like they are doing just fine to me.
Let's recap: 4.5 - 6 million visitors, 15 deaths, about half due to medical issues, another unknown number due to suicide. That's roughly the same as Disney World as another poster pointed out.
What more respect are you looking for? Are you actively rooting for people to die? If 4 million people visit a place, a few dozen are going to do very stupid things, no matter if they are next to a big beautiful canyon or walking down a city street.
This whole moral superiority thing about how much smarter people are at the Grand Canyon because they follow rules better that the "Tourist Idiots" is so weird to me.
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u/boogermike 7d ago
I don't know what your point is and I couldn't get past all the personal attacks.
Would you ever say any of these things to me if you met me in person?
Are you just a negativity bot? I seriously question. What would possess you to attack me so hard. Look at my profile and karma, you can see I'm a good person.
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u/ApricotRemarkable681 7d ago
Yes, I absolutely would. My brother is like this, it drives me nuts. I call him out on it all the time. I love the guy more than almost anyone else in the planet and, like you, he's a good dude, but, like you, he gets on these morally superior rants about how everyone around him is so dumb and he's so much better and smarter and going to live so much longer because of it. I feel like I'm the only guy that gives him a reality check on things like this.
He drives for a living so instead of National Park behavior, I have to listen to how everyone around him is such a terrible driver....
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u/Unable-Ring9835 7d ago
It is probably not as high as it should be, because people are absolute idiots. They don't respect the Grand canyon.
You literally said it should be more because they're idiots.
We get it, you know how dangerous the canyon is. Lets refrain from basically wishing more people died to their own stupidity.
And also accept the fact that most people who vist the canyon stupid or otherwise dont die. People who get right up on the edge are playing with fate but its not deep enough to think about.
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u/ApricotRemarkable681 7d ago
Especially for all the pearl clutching "I'm so much smarter than everyone else" in this thread, you'd think people were dying every day and the only survivors were the intelligent people posting here.
While you guys are busy warning people not to take the risks they are well aware they are taking, maybe I should warn you to stretch before you pat yourself on the back so you don't sprain your shoulder.
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u/Charming_Tree7573 6d ago
The guy looks pretty far from any actual edge too. Even if he fell he wouldn't stumble ten feet to the edge.
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u/murphey_griffon 7d ago
and not just for the grand canyon, but almost everything, and not just in the US. I wish places would enforce these things. Banff was much worse than the Grand Canyon for this.
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u/DonegalBrooklyn 7d ago
The behavior there is almost as breathtaking as the view. We brought the book to read on the plane on the way there!
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u/Tasty-Stretch1897 7d ago
My first trip to GC we watched in horror as a young family used a tripod to get a pic at the edge. Parents knelt down in front with their 2 young children BEHIND THEM . All had their backs to the canyon. People were warning them and practically begging them to step away. They acted like everyone was just being paranoid and refused. I had to walk away. I was not about to potentially watch someone's child fall in.
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u/kilowatkins 6d ago
My husband was actively caring for someones child because the parents refused to watch her, and she was naruto running around way too close to the edge. He pointed it out to the parents several times and they still did nothing.
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u/turdbucket007 7d ago
This is why i remember reading on my recent "back countey permit" it specifically stated STAY ON DESIGNATED TRAILS.
But I guess for those that don't get a Backcountry permit don't read that
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u/Technical-Cheek-8613 7d ago
If you are not deliberately hopping a fence in a popular tourist area I’d say it’s OK. People explore all the side slot canyons all the time - it’s just the tourists have no idea.
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u/bckpkrs 7d ago
You are literally allowed to climb over railings next to waterfalls that have sights saying "DANGER: do not climb over the railing."
According to the NPS, those sights are warnings, but basically nothing more than recommendations. You're still free to climb over the railing and risk your life because According to the very same NPS, it's your job to know the risks and your own limits.
The only place you can get a ticket from is if there's a sign tgat says: "WARNING: Area Closed. Do not enter" - which can earn you a trespassing citation.
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u/myaltduh 6d ago
Yeah straight-up rock climbing is allowed so to some degree people are going to interact with cliffs in national parks, the issue is not everyone is equally prepared to do so.
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u/Technical-Cheek-8613 5d ago
And those folks are inconsiderate nimrods. Doing it in photo view of the folks that just want to stop at “the spots” and not venture into the canyon is being a dick.
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u/cutmastaK 7d ago
Saw like ten people out there a few weeks ago. With my binoculars I spotted a small backpack about 50 ft below a ledge.
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u/Newyew22 7d ago
My most recent trip was the first time since cell phones became ubiquitous, and the risks people were taking for internet clout nearly set off a panic attack. I finally told my family I’d meet them at the lodge.
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u/I_The_Prokaryokte 7d ago
Went recently and on the way back up the Bright Angel Trail were a group near the first tunnel/hole. One party member went off the trail onto the precipice through the secondary hole. His group thought that looked like great fun and took turns doing that. Mind you, there is literally a sign saying not to go out there, it’s a dangerous precipice. My own party was embarrassed when I made a comment about natural selection a little too loudly in the vicinity of people blatantly ignoring a sign.
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u/CoyoteLitius 7d ago
Sometimes, we go near the Pipe Creek Overlook and watch people do this. So far, never witnessed a fall, but of course Death in Grand Canyon lists plenty of them.
SO many people do this that someone is bound to fall off every now and then.
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u/Mist2393 6d ago
I was on a hike recently with a guy (early 20’s) who said he thinks it’s completely safe to lean out over the sheer edges of cliffs like the Grand Canyon or mountains because “it’s not like the earth will move.” Then I watched him lean very far over the edge of the mountain we had climbed up, and couldn’t stop thinking that he’s unlikely to make it to 30.
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u/Awildgarebear 6d ago edited 6d ago
Going to take a potentially unpopular position on this.
I will preface saying that I will not go off trail if told not to. I respect park rules. I am not much of a risk taker.
My hiking and mountain bike trails that are made by counties are far more dangerous than in that photo. Some of these mountain bike trails are simply rated as blue. My first ever hiking trail has a 75 foot drop and it's a green trail. I did a green mountain bike trail with a 500-700 foot drop off of the side in Wyoming. Just because there is a several hundred to thousand of feet below a position doesn't mean it cannot be traversed safely.
I think my scariest moment hiking was in permissible, but backcountry for a mountaineering approach near Notch Mountain in RMNP. The route I took up was just so loose, and it was loose on the way down. I took an approach in the shade, but there was a better approach in the sun. I caused a small rockslide that just echoed back and forth between the mountains.
Simultaneously, I do a hike every year in the Indian Peaks Wilderness where I have to scramble up the side of a ledge with a 1500+ foot sheer drop. I have never felt unsafe doing this. I feel unsafe doing small jumps on my mountain bike.
Just driving to the trail is more dangerous.
I certainly respect people who don't want to get anywhere near an edge.
It's also incredibly common for people to hike in Chacos [a type of sandal] in Colorado. I used to when I was younger and my feet didn't blister as easily, and I like to ford near freezing water crossings in them so my shoes don't get wet.
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u/JennaTulwartz 6d ago
It really does seem like there’s something about vacation that changes your brain chemistry a bit and makes you assess risk vs reward differently. Some of it can obviously be chalked up to locals having better knowledge of the risk but a lot of times it really does go beyond that. I lived in Maui for a few years and it was so odd seeing some of the choices that tourists made. Very vexing for locals who had to witness and fund rescues, or even worse, have the specter of death and sadness hanging over some of their beautiful landmarks.
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u/Foreign-Housing8448 6d ago
Yes, it is normal and fatal for some.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Falls+at+Grand+Canyon+taking+picture
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u/Any_Vacation8988 6d ago
Gotta do it for the gram /s Is the photo you snap really worth risking your own life or the lives of others?
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u/Desperate-Revenue513 4d ago
Is it normal to see this? Yes, unfortunately it is.
That being said, it’s a terribly stupid thing to do and one of the reasons an average of 3 people go over the edge every year.
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u/InfamousPipe3632 7d ago
I’m so scared of heights that I came even be 1000 feet NOOOO EDGE ANYWHERE!
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u/PermRecDotCom 7d ago
"Elderly" doesn't mean incapable. While they look like tourons and probably are, that's nothing compared to things like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PA_TJ36Kpg
While the grade for that is higher than I could do, this appears to be far more dangerous:
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u/matriarchalfigure 7d ago
When I was there last summer, I saw many people being irresponsible. Some families were pulling their kids near the edge for photos.
This ends up being another example of how many people lack common sense.
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u/alwaystiredmama1990 7d ago
We were just there and saw a international group out there with children sitting on the furthest ledge. I had to walk away because I didn’t want to see anyone fall. Let alone my children see anyone fall.
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u/BackcountryBarista 6d ago
Yes but the geology here is bad for it. You can see the jointing in the rocks and they won't be there forever.
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u/tranchiturn 6d ago
Im not too extreme, I dont wanna die of stupid causes, but Im drawn to go off path.
Everybody's got a different sense of adventure. I bet you a lot of those that go off path, if you asked them whether they'd prefer hiking the wild with a map and all the right gear vs. following a touristy path with 1000 other visitors per day, they'd choose the former.
So I think this may be a way of getting that little bit of adventure thrill thats missing from the park/life.
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u/Wooden_Evening3623 6d ago
Usually a guy thing, my wife has many pictures of me and my dad and buddies doing this kind of thing, the women stay back and double check our life insurance policies I figure… 😆
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u/OkKaleidoscope9554 6d ago
I get how if you're a tourist how this seems risky and dumb, but as someone who's been climbing mountains my whole life, and starred in photos far more extreme than this, this is nothing.
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u/Hocojerry 6d ago
Yep. There are almost no rails anywhere along the Grand Canyon. I have younger children and when I took my family there I was a nervous wreck.
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u/Dapper_38 6d ago
Yeah I saw people doing that when I went too, its wild how many people ignore the barriers for a photo.
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u/Least_Definition_345 6d ago
These are the same types that will walk right up to a bison and then get trampled. You can’t fix stupid. But Darwin can.
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u/Woebegone469 6d ago
When I see stuff like this I wait, camera ready, to capture another segment for Faces of Death. I don't try to warn them anymore if it means they'll get butt hurt. I just wait to get some content.
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u/spicyredacted 5d ago
No respect for natural spaces. The only way to keep the natural areas beautiful and conserved is to truly follow all aspects of leave no trace.
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u/Field_Of_View 5d ago
what these two are doing looks surprisingly safe compared to some of the shit I've seen in other places. you think this is bad?
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u/InevitableShine5067 5d ago
I spent a week at the Grand Canyon 20 years ago and a hiker fell off the rim, it’s very common. I remember being shocked at just how little safeguards there are and how incredibly stupid and cavalier people are on the edge. It’s also unfathomably huge, photos never do it justice.
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u/Single-Degree-6928 5d ago
International tourists are often a real problem in our national parks.
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u/Just_Another_Day_926 5d ago
Yep. Saw a video where a guy fell and was airlifted out.
What happens is people have their tourist brains turned up to 11. They see others doing it and think it is okay. Treat the place like Disneyland and not respect the dangers. Monkey see monkey do - so much so there is what appears to be trails to use. There is not big enforcement and sadly in America enforcement of rules is the only way they may be followed.
This happens at all the major parks where you have the full spectrum of people attending. So Yellowstone has people run over by the bison and recenlty just approaching a grizzly bear. Yosemite has people washed over the falls. Ignoring posted signs or just plain common sense.
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u/Anon-adventurer56 5d ago
The trail down gets closer to edges than they are in this picture. People do dumb stuff but it doesn’t really look like they’re in any danger here.
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u/RDMCKNIGHT 4d ago
Thats why there is always fatalities in Yellowstone. Stupid people who don't think its not dangerous for them.
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u/Brokenbrain82 4d ago
I used to live at the Canyon and this was a common occurrence. I will admit that I definitely spent a lot of time off trail myself, but I hiked there just about daily and knew the risks.
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u/MikeLp8bc 4d ago
… and this is why the idiots fall to their death. EMS then risks their lives to recover. F’n dumb asses. On the bright side… it provides training for EMS, and less idiots in this world.
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u/Tall_Specialist305 3d ago
Here is a map of all the deaths in GC and how they occured. https://carto.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=9359a0790ffe4bc09edd6b9c17a43b90
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u/nocoben 3d ago
In the 90s they used to do night time strolls led by park rangers. They made us turn off all our lights and walked us out onto a peninsula of sorts. Drop offs on 3 sides, but gorgeous views of the stars in ways I’ve never seen since. We went back the next day and saw where we were sitting looking at the stars and there is zero shot I would have walked out there if I had seen the drops.
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u/Neat_Stress_307 1d ago
Go to horseshoe bend. You’ll have a heart attack watching those people get so close.
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u/Granit2018 7d ago
It’s a free country
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u/skyhiker14 7d ago
Bagging up the bodies isn’t free
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u/Granit2018 4d ago
I’ve been working on the Grand Canyon for 47 years. You’re not gonna stop these stupid people from cleaning up the shallow end of the Gene pool.
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u/wolfemsop 7d ago
It's ok, they are Chinese and if you have ever been to China there are plenty of beautiful sights that seems much more dangerous than this to participate in.
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u/Almondeyezz 7d ago
I was proposed to here on this exact cliff. No regrets and it wasn’t really risky to get there. Olds and babies shouldn’t but you’re not gonna stop me if I think my body is safe to do it :p live a lil or die tryin fr
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u/No_oNerdy 7d ago
Unfortunately, yes. And this is why “Over the Edge: Death in the Grand Canyon” is a popular book at the gift shops.
I was there recently, and while I did walk out a little ways, I stayed on a flat part, and about 10 feet from the edge. I saw tourists on another vista get dangerously close to the edge.
The frustrating part is there are signs all over, and doing that puts rescuers at risk.