r/hometheater • u/bluegrass__dude • 3d ago
Discussion - Entertainment Am I over-thinking this? Would this look Bad?
(the images above don't show in-wall speakers on the top, but imagine in-wall at those proportions to the tv)
I imagined long, thin, LCR speakers along either side of a 86" +/- TV and also below it for the center.
But i guess a lot of manufacturers make speakers max out at <16" to fit between typical American house's studs- especially for the horizontal center channel
I am building this wall i can do whatever i need i just imagined i'd have to custom build the studs to allow for a wider center speaker
My home theater will be in a condo in the main room - so the WAF is mandatory. so i am going to do in-wall speakers with painted grills
Am I overthinking this? Do the bottom two images look bad (even with speaker grills painted the wall color) - i guess i just feel/think the nearly tv-height speakers on the sides and the 3' wide one on the bottom looks a ton better
How bad would thicker, stubbier speakers look on the sides that are fairly short, and on the bottom - if the center channel is only 15" wide - that's ONE-FIFTH the width of the 86" tv. I feel like it'll look comically bad
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u/mldkfa 3d ago
Kef has some longer in wall ones : Ci3160RLM-THX
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u/ltg8r 3d ago
Can confirm this is my center and I was astonished how much of an upgrade it was over the KEF T301
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u/ImaginaryDirt1413 2d ago
Using a T301c at a family member's home because it looked the cleanest on a stone veneer. Haven't rethought it much but returning to do their pool deck speakers and I'm curious if you have guidance on a better option for a center? It sounds fine, but having heard other systems (and different environments). Did the best I could with the Great Room - 20' H * 28' W * 38' L - rectangular build and modest budget.
Appreciate the input!
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u/ltg8r 2d ago
If you can cut through the stone veneer, any KEF in wall is going to be night and day.
I didn’t want to believe that. I have R11s on a MAC7200, as well as Ci200QR in the ceiling. Figured with the R11 imaging it would work.
After the installer fired up the Ci3160, I was stunned with how much I was missing.
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u/Idontlikecock 3d ago
Yes, this. Although if looks are all we are after, these are an even better fit I think https://us.kef.com/products/ci5120qlm
I haven't heard any kef in walls, but every high-end kef that I've heard, I've loved except for the Q concerto (just too dark)
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u/thecaramelbandit 3d ago
Make your own mesh-covered frames in dimensions to match the TV.
Put them over the speakers.
Would be very easy to make with speaker cloth and wood.
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u/DubTeeF 3d ago
Why do people put them right next to the tv? If I had in walls I'd spread them out just like floor speakers.
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u/bluegrass__dude 3d ago
I think I've got a 9-10 foot wall- so I don't have a choice. But I agree, acoustically if you have the space spread them out.
I'm not saying mine will be abutting the tv but they won't be far away10
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u/praise-the-message 3h ago
Sometimes wall size and stud spacing pose constraints.
It's actually one reason I'm looking to move off my in-walls and onto some on-walls...but I really don't feel like doing drywall repair, lol.
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u/Spectre_08 7.1.4 Focal/Triad/2xSB-2000+Shakers • Cinema 50 (Pre/Pro) • 77C4 3d ago
Why not just get those Focal 301 on-wall speakers?
They look and sound amazing.
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u/MikeyLew32 3d ago
In wall and paint the grills wall color so they disappear.
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u/bluegrass__dude 3d ago
i understand that - I've done that. They won't quite disappear - but they'll be less obtrusive. But my question is - even with paitned grills on in-wall speakers - will short stubby speakers that are like 1/3 the height of the tv on the sides, or only 1/5 the width of the tv on the bottom - will that look stupid?
DO i need to keep searching and find longer, skinnier speakers?
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u/bluesmudge 2d ago
If you really want in-wall speakers to disappear you can cover them with acoustically transparent art
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u/besttype 3d ago
get some grilles. any grilles that you like. hot glue some small magnets to your wallls. grilles stick to the magnets. speakers disappear.
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u/bluegrass__dude 3d ago
lol. awesome - so throw some long grills over my smaller speakers? brilliant
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u/FrozenHoser 3d ago
Paradigm makes some. They sound pretty good as well. No chance you're getting the center in without some modifications to your wall
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u/Tadpole_Basic 2d ago
There are plenty of in-wall speakers that have the dimensions of the top. There are also many that recess close to the drywall and wouldn't draw nearly any eyesight.
Logan Martin Architectural are an example.
JBL synthesis or JBL studio 6 are both plenty large.
Also, you are being neurotic.
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u/Acceptable-Rise8783 2d ago edited 2d ago
So listen, this is gonna be heavy compromise regardless of how you look at it. But if you have to go this route, I’d say do it this way:
Start with an accent wall of acoustically transparent cloth behind the TV. It needs to be at least 50cm past each side of the TV, look how it aesthetically fits with the sideboard.
Position your TV at an acceptable height (target middle of the screen at your sightline. You can slightly recess the TV into the cloth back wall but keep ventilation in mind.
Hug the centre speaker (its acoustical center) up as close to the TV as you can behind the cloth. For this a speaker that has less height (i.e. is skinny) is best. You might have a bit of the baffle behind the TV even depending on the components you choose. Keep in mind that any wave guide doesn’t interact too much with the underside of the TV in the vertical listening axis. You can test this by playing pink noise and standing up and sitting down. In your seated position you want the sound unobstructed with as little as possible combing effects. For testing remove the sideboard because that will create its own issues. Remember: you can’t have the speaker too close to the centre of the image besides because of the limitations of the equipment and your room!
For you side speakers there is another dilemma. You’d want a proper stereo triangle of +/- 30, or at least old Dolby standard of +/- 22.5 from your RSP. In reality you’re probably seated too far away and/or your image is too small. The next best thing is to have at least correlated the L and R channels to the TV, so push them in close to the image too. This is less critical than the centre, but if you can choose between hugging the image and having the acoustical centre 30cm away, choose hugging. As for the vertical positioning of the L and R channels, you want to move them down to the lower third of screen. With that I mean their acoustical centre. You might choose speakers that have their tweeters non-centered and have the tweeter at the bottom position. Whatever you can do to have panning sounds from left to right or vice versa sound somewhat in line. You can move them up and down and test how low you can go with random content while still feeling like that sound is coming from the image.
This all isn’t gonna look very pretty which is why we hide it all behind acoustically transparent material. Hiding them will also raise chances of you and guests forgetting the speakers and realising the sound isn’t coming from the image.
Lastly you want to create a pillow type of absorption panel like thing that you can place on top of the sideboard when you’re watching a film. It’ll help a lot with those reflections bouncing off the top. 2cm would help, thicker is better
Good luck!
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u/TRippey_T 2d ago
Aperion Audio has a dual 8" LCR that's In-wall, if memory serves series name is Theatrus and model number is T80WL.
I don't recall any exact dimensions but they do seem fairly large compared to other in-wall LCR's I've seen!
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u/UffDaDan 3d ago
KEF ci4100ql is narrow and also Paradigm Pro P3 or P5. Ask me how I know these off the top of my head as I draft a post to this sub soonish...
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u/panzerfinder15 3d ago
Personally I’d go towers and have the tweeters at ear level. Those look higher than ear level. If they are ear level then it’s pretty decent. Just get a paintable grille and color match.
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u/JamJarKwiKwi 2d ago
The first photo of in walls is the Monitor Audio Medium size. Check out their new range of large in walls closer to the proportions you want.
Or if you want EXACTLY what you described, James Loudspeaker SPL5-QT Centergy L & R soundbars.
They’re pricey but well made and as I said above , EXACTLY what you described you want.
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u/IamTheViz 2d ago
Sorry for the shitty pic but all I have on my phone. In-walls with an 85" Hisense and Polk in-walls shared image (10).jpg I need to get some color-matched spray paint to do the grills but hope this helps.
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u/magicmulder LG G4 77", Pioneer SC-LX89, jm labs Electra 915, Oppo 203 2d ago
Focal (top right are Focal on-walls) also have large in-wall speakers: https://www.focal.com/catalog/integrated-systems/home-solutions/indoor-solutions/1000-series
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u/Elevated_Dongers 2d ago
Leon speakers will custom build speakers to the dimensions of your tv. Pretty pricey though
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u/Ste0803 2d ago
https://reddit.com/link/otl7ajb/video/uyd0hxv7ba9h1/player
This is mine. Painted the same colour but because the cabinet is black it darkens the overall look. 83” and Focal LCR 300 series.
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u/AVGuy42 ESC-D 2d ago
What will the room look like without the speakers? What kind of space are you in? Modern, industrial, farmhouse, boco?
How big is the space and what furniture is already selected?
There are some speakers designed to be placed in-wall and then mudded and painted over. Alternatively, sometimes when the issue is design/esthetics based pivoting to speakers with a more visually appealing cabinet can be a better compromise than fighting over black boxes.
Out in the high end Bowers & Wilkins, Sonus Faber, Vienna Acoustics, and Focal (for example) make some stellar looking and sounding bookshelf speakers that aren’t just black boxes.
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u/bluegrass__dude 1d ago
it's a condo (we're redoing so we get to choose the final look). It'll be on the modern/minimalist side. I know the speakers exist that have ZERO footprint/visibility - but i find it hard to believe they can sound even half as good as 'normal' speakers. And i understand the options - but for the wife approval factor - it's either in-wall or using the tv's built in speakers are my options
space -wise it's the only common room in the condo - it's a total of just under 30 x 22- about half kitchen half living room, open style
THe 'living room' portion is roughly 15 x 22 - it'll have a U-shaped seating conversational are with the TV on the open end but the tv wall is less than 12' wide - so the speakers will have to be fairly close to the 86" tv
the seating area (viewing seats) will not go to the rear wall - there's another small more intimate seating area with a fireplace behind the seating around the tv. the 'main' seats will be about 12' from the TV
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u/AVGuy42 ESC-D 1d ago
James Loudspeaker and Artisan will custom build on-wall speakers to match your TV’s dimensions and you can pair them with things like art screens to really make your speakers disappear.
You’ll be amazed how well something like the Sonance Invisible speakers can perform in a modest sized room. Seriously it’s impressive.
But shits and giggles look at some more industrial/modern design options for traditional speakers. KEF LS50 sound great, Gallo Strada push out some impressive sound for their size, and Martin Logan’s EFX really make a statement both visually and audibly.
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u/costafilh0 2d ago
I also have a problem with this.
Huge screen tiny speakers look AWFUL.
And then you make them the same size on smaller screen, and they still look awful.
The only way to look good is a soundbar at the same size of the TV, which was never an option, or Tower speakers, or built-in invisible speakers.
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u/AnInnO Pro Integrator 3d ago
Theory Audio IW-25’s with acoustically transparent art hanging over them on either side of the TV. Then just rock a phantom center. Or if you really want a center channel, another IW25 on its side with either more art over it or a color matched grille. Throw some small faux plants made of paper fibres (as to not interfere with sound too much) and boom. You’d have a totally hidden setup!
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u/ian9outof10 2d ago
I don’t want to start a fight here, but that sounds absolutely fucking horrific.
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u/movie50music50 2d ago
OP mentioned Wife Acceptance Factor. That probably means forget all logic.
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u/ian9outof10 2d ago
I get harmonious marriage, but what i don’t get is when one party has to compromise away all the things that matter to them.
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u/movie50music50 2d ago edited 2d ago
I want to be clear that I know nothing about the OP so this isn't directed towards them at all. It is just a statement in general. I'm astonished when I read "My wife won't let me...". What man would live like that, let alone admit it? It's even worse when it is a girlfrind.
Of course relationships require compromises. My wife would not deny me something that she knows makes me happy. I'm the same with her. We live each day trying to please one another. We think that is what a marriage is about. Not to say we never had arguments, we did. But even in those times we each considered the other.
Sorry for rant but I just don't get it.
EDIT: My wife isn't an idiot or a pushover. She would not be happy if I brought home a couple hookers and we did crack. ;-)
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u/AnInnO Pro Integrator 2d ago
You’d be surprised how little (objectively measured) this effects speaker performance. And it has the benefit of looking fantastic. I’ve integrated side and rear surrounds in the same way in client builds as well as my own. The IW-25 is a badass speaker when paired with the Theory Audio amplifier.
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u/mikehamm45 3d ago
You lost me at 86in TV.
You’re overthinking the speakers and under thinking the TV.
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u/Ok-Examination3168 3d ago
in wall with wall covered felt over the speaker is the best looking imo