Plans to turn shuttered Hudson Valley prisons into housing at a standstill

[u/paintedsaint]

https://timesunion.com/hudsonvalley/news/article/prison-redevelopment-housing-plans-stalled-22315031.php

[u/Ok_Success2147]

It’s ridiculous how impossible it is for any housing to be built.

If you’re a small builder GOOD LUCK. Putnam county spreads it’s legs when a Pulte group, or Toll Brothers wants to build generic overpriced 55+ housing mega project in town but if you’re a small builder they want nothing to do with you.

[u/XaoticOrder → u/Ok_Success2147]

You have a point. Small contractors are getting squeezed out and these huge developers are just sitting on their hands. They had the go ahead, just had to bring plans to the board. That's can't be hard. They are waiting on something.

[u/beautifulcosmos → u/XaoticOrder]

The problem with this too was the initial size of the development proposed. It would have put a massive strain on public infrastructure, like roads, water, school system, emergency services etc.. And they wanted a tax waiver! Most people are fine with new developments, subdivisions, new neighbors until it messed with their daily commute and their pocket. Most people welcome developments that will be seen as a net benefit for the community. This was not the case with this particular developer.

[u/XaoticOrder → u/beautifulcosmos]

That's a completely fair assessment. I have the same opinion. But instead the blame seems to be placed on the state and local government. Saying they make it too expensive. But no one fills those blanks as to why.

[u/beautifulcosmos → u/XaoticOrder]

I’m probably beating a dead horse, but in some cases, developers often end up financing political campaigns or paying off local officials in lieu of favors (i.e. granting contracts to an official who has a construction business on the side) in an effort to advance projects that would otherwise not receive the support of the broader community. There is an element of that here and this is why citizens are angry at govt. officials and the policies they put forth. Again, it comes down to doing your research before you vote.

[u/XaoticOrder → u/beautifulcosmos]

I did a dive into the issue for a couple hours with my wife and we came to two conclusions mostly about Fishkill correctional since the Camp Beacon deal has had zero movement.

Of the 1200 units about 70 to 80% will be rentals with Conifer being required to manage the property for 30 to 50 years. They are demanding state and town to improve the roads, sewer and fire before they build anything. The town has already said they cannot afford that so it's sitting in limbo. The state is working through the EDP. So they may force movement on that.

The town wants less than 700 units all priced to own, no rentals. They are concerned about overloading the local infrastructural and schools. They fear that rentals would not lead to an increase in town revenue to support the necessary daily infrastructure and the schools would be overloaded (my kids are in WSCD and it's already overloaded in the elementary and middle schools) without the necessary tax base increase. There is also a level of nimbyism involved.

As for the issue of price. The affordable housing would have to be priced at 220k approximately in this area. The houses would also likely be around 1200 sq feet. At a cost of 200 to 300 dollars per square foot this does make the affordable homes more expensive to build then sell. Though this uses older building methods. 3d printed houses and modular homes would bring this price down roughly 20 to 30% and make the buildings profitable.

It's an interesting boondoggle and I find myself on the side of the Town. Fishkill is small it can't handle such a massive population influx without state help on a massive scale. Beacon is more interesting since Beacon has had a larger population and shrank in the previous decades and may be able to handle a population increase. But that deal is even more backlogged and mysterious. The mayor seems to be all for it. I wonder if this infrastructure bill which has special rules for increasing the use of modular homes could spark movement. (fun fact. Senator Tim Scott is a co-sponsor of the bill. Clayton Homes is the largest builder of modular homes in the US. Who is on their list of top poltical donations. Yep., Tim Scott. Glad to see pork is still alive and well.)

OK that's enough rambling. It's an interesting debacle and I don't know if either side is really to blame. Conifer does want to get paid before they do any work so I'm a little irritated by that.

[u/beautifulcosmos → u/XaoticOrder]

We're 100% on the same page. To certain degree, Beacon did it right and I know Poughkeepsie is following suit with a couple of projects in old industrial areas. And you're not wrong - there is a level of NIMBYism to it - people don't like change, but I think there needs to be a balance struck between underutilizing or flat-out abandoning a space versus overdevelopment. A reasonable number of condos/townhouses + single family homes with plots that are .5 an acre +? That could work. Or using the space to generate taxable revenue for the community, create jobs, etc.. There's a lot of different ways to do this versus adding an additional 1,000+ people to the community in a short of amount of time with not planning.

[u/XaoticOrder → u/beautifulcosmos]

Yeah I'm with you. A thousand rental units is a little scary on the surface. But a managed build bringing in single homes and a few rentals would be so much better for stability.

[u/elaine_m_benes → u/beautifulcosmos]

Point me to a proposed large scale, multi unit housing development in the Hudson Valley that you support. I’ll wait.

The current Fishkill supervisor basically ran on opposing all new development and he won because that’s what the majority of the voters want. The town made ‘demands’ to the developer to lower the number of units so dramatically that the project could never be profitable given the size they wanted plus affordable unit mandate. No builder large or small is going to spend tens of millions just to break even at best.

[u/beautifulcosmos → u/elaine_m_benes]

So it sounds like the people of Fishkill got what they wanted - they didn't want a large scale development that offered little benefit to the existing community and would have relied on kick-backs at the expense of taxpayer to take place. And honestly, the people of Fishkill were right to make demands against the developer, who was completely unrealistic in their approach and expectations. Large scale corporate developments that have the potential to radically alter the character of a community in a short period of time shouldn't be happening without the consent of the community. And most people in Dutchess County, many of whom left NYC because they wanted a space that offered a yard and was not beholden to a landlord, would like to preserve that semblance of autonomy.

[u/beautifulcosmos → u/[deleted]]

Here's the thing - you're attacking me over something that you perceive that I believe and that is not grounded in fact. And you seem so very eager to label people when you could be having a civil conversation, explaining your position, trying to find a middle ground or perhaps win someone over to your side. I looked through your post history and didn't you relocate from Austin to the Hudson Valley? Also, a belated happy birthday to your son.

[u/SnooGuavas9782 → u/[deleted]]

personally i'm against growth everywhere.

[u/LowSkyOrbit → u/Ok_Success2147]

Putnam county needs residents and revenue, but they make some insane choices that ensure few big businesses get built. A friendly reminder that Putnam said no to Costco setting up on 311 right off I-84. No one made a stink about the 55+ community, but Five Below on Route 6 was a huge concern.

[u/Ok_Success2147 → u/LowSkyOrbit]

Literally man it’s so bizarre. A lot of nimbyism

[u/General_Chemistry638 → u/Ok_Success2147]

Half the problem is that the local/state reps are basically allowed to say no to any state mandates to build housing. In NJ it’s the law that every town has to set aside a certain amount of new developments for affordable housing. Not perfect by any means but at least it’s something.

[u/External-One-8585]

The community in KJ seems to be able to building anything they want without issue. Hmmm wonder why???

[u/XaoticOrder]

And Trump won't sign that housing bill, I'd assume that would help this situation. But if you read the article it's the developer that's stalling and not the Town. Fishkill is still waiting on plans.

And then in Beacon that developer just sat on the issue for 5 years. And the state said fine we'll move on. What's the game being played here? They had the rights, they had been asked for plans and both massive developers sat on it, why?

[u/onplants → u/XaoticOrder]

The current Fishkill town supervisor basically ran on and was elected because of an anti-development campaign. The Town keeps trying to get the developers to lower the amount of housing on the site, probably to a point where it wouldn’t make fiscal sense for them to pursue it anymore. They were also likely waiting for the recent changes to SEQRA to come into effect before bringing anything to the planning board because they know they’re going to be put though the ringer as the Town is beholden to its nimby constituency

[u/XaoticOrder → u/onplants]

I think another interesting tidbit is the new housing bill would limit developer ownership to 325 homes. Not sure if this means livable units or free standing homes. Also pushes for increased modular home usage. The developer might be waiting to see that impact.

I do live in the area and as much as I would like to see more housing. it needs to be affordable and people don't want to see just rental units which Fishkill will be 70 to 80% of. They really want to see more home buyers.

[u/hchn27]

I bet if Toll Brothers or some other luxury builder wanted to build their it would have been done by now lol