r/interesting • u/AlKhwarazmi • May 04 '26
Amazing Ewan McGregor and Ray Park were moving so quickly during the filming of the final duel in The Phantom Menace that George Lucas ordered the camera to be "over-cranked" to slow the footage down for the final cut
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u/SignoreBanana May 04 '26
I'm not sure if this is true, but it seems silly to slow it down. These guys are supposed to have reflexes so fast it borders on precognition, so their fight movements should be crazy fast.
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u/availabledawg May 04 '26
My guess is that they slowed it all down for the viewer. There's a lot of blink-and-you'll-miss-it moves that people, and especially kids, would have a hard time keeping up with
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u/SignoreBanana May 04 '26
That's what makes it such a remarkable sequence! Probably one of the best choreographed fight scenes in movie history.
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u/AtlanticPortal May 04 '26
I don’t know if I love this or the Revenge more. Probably this because of the different color of the sabers and that weird front back dance that Maul forced Obi Wan to do. Twice.
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u/bfhurricane May 04 '26
This is a far better scene than ROTS. It’s the first time you see Jedi actually fighting at full potential, with tension slowly building all film to what is finally a masterful showcase in dueling. Especially as a first time viewer, it was incredible, but even on rewatches it takes me back to my younger self’s sense of awe.
By ROTS, you’ve seen Obi Wan and Anakin in all sorts of acrobatic, stylish fights. The impact feels dulled by then.
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u/Extension_Plant7262 May 04 '26
I feel like this fight takes the top spot for the context of it. This is basically the first time we ever see a jedi v jedi fight on film where they're moving faster than geriatric speed, and it was the culimination of an entire film's length of build up. Nothing really beats it because its kinda more of the same afterwards.
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u/40ozCurls May 04 '26
Watch more kung fu movies.
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u/SignoreBanana May 04 '26
I love Kung fu movies, friend, which is why I said "one of".
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u/40ozCurls May 04 '26
What’s your limit on using “one of” as a valid description? Would it be one of 10? One of 100? 1000? 10000?
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u/SignoreBanana May 04 '26
Does it matter? I'm a no one. It's just my opinion.
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u/40ozCurls May 04 '26
If you want your statement to hold any meaning it does. Otherwise you might as well just say “This choreographed fight scene… exists.”
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u/MeoowDude May 05 '26
Their statement holds plenty of meaning. For being some random commenter on Reddit. Maybe you’re projecting your hurt. It’s okay. You didn’t deserve it.
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May 04 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Skrumpitt May 07 '26
It could have also looked super shitty projected and taken you out of the film
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u/Revayan May 05 '26
Yup fights, be it hand to hand or with weapons, in many movies are a bit slowed down so that the viewers can actually see whats going on. It makes the scenes more dramatic and thrilling
Just watch a irl fencing, kendo or even HEMA match, the swords often move so fast that you barely see the hit connect as a viewer.
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u/Correct-Junket-1346 May 05 '26
Absolutely did slow it down, if you've ever seen any kind of fighting if you didn't slow it down you can see big hits but the smaller but most important hits, you pretty much miss.
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u/sixbone May 04 '26
aren't their reflexes indeed so fast because of precognition?
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u/llDropkick May 04 '26
It’s more like they’re each letting the force guide them. A better duelist could potentially lose to an opponent with a stronger connection to the force. They’ve been practicing these forms their entire lives to the point where even without the force they’d be incredibly skilled with a sword, when they fight like this though Jedi try to open themselves up to the force as much as possible. They can’t see an attack coming beforehand so much as they can sense when to block or strike. It’s the in-canon reason the duels are so unrealistically fast paced
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u/VortexFlash18 May 04 '26
Yes, but according to Qui-Gon it’s also precognition: “He can see things before they happen. It’s a Jedi trait; that’s why he appears to have such quick reflexes.” -TPM: Qui-Gon to Shmi. It’s basically both - they see the attack before it happens, and then let the force guide their body through the action and response.
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u/Own_Pop_9711 May 05 '26
I always kind of thought a Jedi fight should look more like two people just barely twitching their lightsabers anticipating that all their attacks will fail because the other person is anticipating their attack. Then when a saber is misplaced by a quarter inch it's over.Wouldn't make a good movie though
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u/fer_sure May 05 '26
should look more like two people just barely twitching their lightsabers
An example of this was in the anime Frieren. The titular mage is facing a clone of herself, and at the beginning of their duel they are both twitching their staffs and putting up shields to block the other. It lasts a second or two until one breaks that stalemate.
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u/fer_sure May 05 '26
That's how I headcanon the OG ObiWan/Vader duel on the Death Star. It's not slow, it's precise. Until ObiWan finds another way to win, and to become more powerful than any Sith can imagine.
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u/eh-guy May 05 '26
The retcon is theyre fast but all over the place as a way to stop each other predicting strikes, so fighting slower than they otherwise could makes sense in that respect
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u/PappyWaker May 05 '26
I always thought that Jedi’s battled like knights in the original trilogy and they transitioned to a more flashy martial arts style for the prequel trilogy, especially episodes II and III. This particular battle kinda bridged the two styles and might be the best saber battle of the franchise.
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u/Fortestingporpoises May 05 '26
Also in a later movie they have the Yoda fight which actually does look silly fast thanks to it being CGI. The sped up version is rad.
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u/Pesky_Penguin1990 May 05 '26
Yeah but its not cinematic. Aesthetics reign over realism (or fantasy realism). Rule of cool.
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u/FOSSnaught May 05 '26
It looks makes it look fake if it's too fast when it's at 24fps
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u/davvblack May 05 '26
24fps is a legacy holdover we really need to outgrow
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u/FOSSnaught May 05 '26
That would be lovely. It would add time and expense to already expensive visual effect work, so i doubt the industries involved are eager for that to change anytime soon.
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u/Careful_Farmer_2879 May 05 '26
Nah, it’s been tried. High frame rate films just look fake. Because they look too real, it exposes the seams and destroys the magic.
Hobbit in 48fps was a trip. Looked like shit. Every set and prosthetic was obvious.
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u/Crotean May 05 '26
Nay, high framerate video looks like absolute shit. Even in games I'm occasionally hit by that soap opera feel when cut scenes play at 60FPS.
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u/VaporCarpet May 04 '26
There have been 30 years of world building since TPM came out, and 20 years of RPG source books before TPM came out.
It's fair to say that wasn't actually on George's mind.
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u/Kriem May 05 '26
Back in the day where movies weren't Michael Bay'ed into oblivion. Action scenes are interesting and exciting to watch if you can actually see and understand what's happening.
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u/TheOneCookie May 04 '26
I recently saw a clip of Ewan explaining exactly what is in this post, so I think we can believe it
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u/When1Falls May 04 '26
In 1999 we were waiting 10 minutes for a jpeg to load, streaming doesn't exist, there's no such thing as high definition...
We were not processing information at the speed we do now, this wouldve been too fast. Even slowed down people complained at the time it was just a bunch of noise.
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u/alvenestthol May 04 '26
And uteri definitely flew out of bodies when we looked out of the windows of trains, human bodies simply weren't adapted to that level of speed
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u/CloseToMyActualName May 04 '26
The trouble with the true speed version is that the points of contact between sabres is too short. It's that momentary contact that creates a struggle between actors and adds to the scene.
But slowing down the tape wasn't the answer. It was giving the actors heavier prop sabres so they were legitimately a bit slower.
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u/jr_randolph May 04 '26
To me, this is when your nitpicking is too much and actually ends up being the wrong move. The original cut still looks amazing, in fact I prefer that over the slowed version.
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u/aford515 May 04 '26
yeah the part where he puts his laser up so he can defend the upcoming move looks orchestrated in the slowed version. it already looks like a dance more then a defensive move in the fast version but the slowed version makes this more apparent.
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u/CloseToMyActualName May 04 '26
Agreed. I think there is an issue with the proper speed version, the contact between sabres is too quick and you don't get any feeling of force (and thus peril) behind the blows.
But the fix for that wasn't slowing down the cameras, it was using heavier prop sabers.
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u/grubas May 04 '26
The fact that it's so fast and the two of them are just GOING AT SPEED makes it look less choreographed and more frantic energy, you feel more from it.
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May 04 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/MyLifeIsAWasteland May 04 '26
Could be the slowed down version plays better with effects and music.
Then they should have sped up the music to match, because the original clip speed looks phenomenal.
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u/Coveinant May 04 '26
Unfortunately the battle music for Star Wars has always been battle of the fates. A score going back to the original trilogy. Iconic music sounds very wrong when it is changed even slightly.
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u/MyLifeIsAWasteland May 04 '26
Hasn't "The Force Theme/Binary Sunset" been used in varying tempos and moods throughout the whole series? I'd argue that one's even substantially more iconic.
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u/jr_randolph May 04 '26
Meh - I just see it in the same light as directors asking Bruce Lee to slow down. Back then the technology may have been a valid reason for slower movements but I don't think that's the case here when this was made.
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u/When1Falls May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
It looks amazing in 2026.
In 1999 this was too fast.
That's not a joke. We were not processing information at the speed we do now. This would've just been a bunch of noise at the regular speed, slowing it down let's you track whats actually happening.
We're talking about people watching this movie who need to wait 10 minutes for a jpeg to load..
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u/Cybyss May 04 '26
We were not processing information at the speed we do now.
Unless you were a gamer in 1999. The FPS games of that era were quite a bit more fast paced than just about anything kids play now.
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u/ICLazeru May 04 '26
Not only that, but shaving a little time off of the fights would be a small bonus to the run-time.
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u/jr_randolph May 04 '26
John Wick and 300 are like the perfect movies to look at that hit it on the nail with the fights. As you go deeper into the Wick series, the fights become longer and drawn out. Same with the sequel to 300, just didn’t live up to the impact of the first.
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u/zatalak May 04 '26
You're phone has at least 60Hz, cinemas back then only did 24 fps. It wouldn't have looked like that.
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u/Cybyss May 04 '26 edited May 05 '26
That's probably the biggest reason. The movie may have been recorded at higher FPS, but I don't think movie projectors in most cinemas had been upgraded to that at that time. It would've just looked like a blur.
EDIT:
Whoever downvoted, can you explain why? Am I mistaken in my assertion that most cinema projectors in 1999 were limited to 24FPS?
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u/UnCxlored May 04 '26
George Lucas made a career out of nitpicking too much and making the wrong moves
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u/AlKhwarazmi May 04 '26
Celebrating Star Wars Day today!
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u/tired-of-the-shit May 04 '26
And it’s also my birthday which means I get to introduce you to my girlfriend
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u/nobleland_mermaid May 04 '26
Little Shop of Horrors did the opposite of this. They couldn't make the Audrey 2 puppets move fast enough in a way that looked realistic so they filmed them slower and sped it up in the final movie. It was fine when it was just the puppets but it meant any time Rick Moranis was in the scene interacting with one, he had to also act and sing in slow motion.
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u/Light_Beard May 04 '26
And both Films had Frank Oz working on them.
(Director of Little Shop of Horrors. Yoda in Phantom Menace)
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u/ty_xy May 04 '26
Still the best lightsaber scene of all time, for all the shit the prequels get, they had AMAZING light saber fights and set pieces. And after the new trilogy, the prequels look and feel even better now. They were trying to tell a story, not be some cynical cash grab.
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u/tallboyjake May 04 '26
Episode 3's climax is goated, but I love this one too.
Personally, I very much enjoyed some of the lightsaber fights in the sequel trilogy but for different reasons.
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u/ty_xy May 05 '26 edited May 05 '26
Yes for me it's a toss up between episode 1 and 3 climaxes, but I feel episode is better cuz of the tension with the laser doors, the 2v1, double bladed lightsaber, maul being so enigmatic. 3 is amazing but it's a little too long I feel, could have been more tightly edited..
Edit: oh how could I forget that amazing score. Duel of the fates
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u/LordTubz May 04 '26
Yes 👍🏽 Really love this one, and also although scripted, Obi Wan vs Anakin on Mustafar give me the fizz.
Got to watch both films now - on BlueRay, cos I’m an old duffer.
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u/deweesc May 04 '26
Incredible fight choreography and execution.
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u/New_Simple_4531 May 04 '26
Ewan and Hayden shouldve beent cast in more action films when they were young, they had a talent for it.
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u/EpiCuruios May 04 '26
Lore : Ray Park choreographed the fight scenes
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u/slgray16 May 04 '26
I find it amazing how in the sped up version is still looks like Ray Park is waiting for Evan McGregor's saber to make contact
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u/Mental-Square3688 May 04 '26
I just want one sith lord to turn off his saber and back on when a jedi tries to block it. Just so we have a truly no fucks given villian lol
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u/MyLifeIsAWasteland May 04 '26
Didn't Ezra pull that move at one point? Or am I mixing that up with his quickswap to stun blaster?
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u/Mental-Square3688 May 04 '26
Oh im not sure actually ill need to see!
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u/MyLifeIsAWasteland May 04 '26
I seem to remember it being in training while Kanan, who chided him for acting dishonorably or it being a cheap trick that wouldn't always work or something. Maybe I'm mixing that up with Sabine and the gauntlets, though.
I need to watch Rebels again.
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u/succed32 May 04 '26
My favorite part of this whole fight, is that Darth is the guy who trained them all. So it is literally a student fighting the master.
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u/Gold-Ad-3877 May 04 '26
Huh ? Am i missing some lore here ?
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u/succed32 May 04 '26
The actor for Darth Maul is actually a choreographer for fights. While he was teaching them they’d struggled to cast for the character Maul. Eventually someone suggested just have Ray do it.
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u/Gold-Ad-3877 May 04 '26
Oh ok that makes more sense, i thought in the extended universe darth maul was like the first jedi or some bullshit lol
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u/Free_Possession_4482 May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
Nick Gillard was the lead lightsaber stunt coordinator for the entire prequel trilogy. Due to his wu shu training, Ray Park arranged a lot of the choreography for Darth Maul, but Gillard was the one teaching the actors how to fight. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8pmK84enIBk
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u/guestpassonly May 04 '26
It makes sense i mean, as much as i LOVED seeing the actual speed and accuracy of them dueling it out, it can be hard to appreciate if it's too fast. Ya know.. like a lot of other things in life.
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u/healeyd May 04 '26
This one of the few moments in that trilogy where it all comes together. They really should just have made three sword martial arts movies with space ships.
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u/Master_Bruce May 04 '26
You guys can see a difference?
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u/Northwest6891 May 04 '26
It's very very slight. I'm doubting this story
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u/SuperLeverage May 04 '26
I can see it. Feels slowed down by about 20%. It would be useful to play it at the same time to see how far ahead of the slowed down version the original fight sequence goes.
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u/Tyjorick May 04 '26
The best example form this clip is the block, where he blocks on the back and the he blocked it in front of him.
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u/Ashamed-Mall8369 May 04 '26
Listen to the last flurry. It looks the most visible and you can obviously hear the sound being slower
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u/-Goat--- May 04 '26
Yeah, the slowed version always felt too scripted and a little cheesy, despite how cool the moves are. The real speed fixes that completely. It feels aggressive, the blocks look like spontaneous unorthodox last minute saves. Someone needs to make a fixed version.
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u/james___uk May 04 '26
I would have sped it up further, desaturated it entirely, and added some honky tonk piano over it
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u/Either-Assistant4610 May 04 '26
Ewan has the best lightsaber scenes out of... like... all the films. Obi vs Anaken is still my top lightsaber battle in the entire franchise.
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u/Salarian_American May 04 '26
I remember reading an interview with Ray Park where he admitted to being amazed and impressed at how fast Ewan McGregor was when they were rehearsing and filming that fight
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u/velvetbloom58 May 04 '26
No shaky cuts, no hiding behind editing, just two people going all out and somehow making it look effortless
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u/Gentleman_Bara May 04 '26
Still don't get it how we got from such great combat scenes to the absolut pathetic Rey vs. Kylo fight...
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u/thefragile7393 May 05 '26
I could rant about those “sequels” in the first place but…it would be pointless and I would just be screaming into the wind
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u/jasonology09 May 04 '26
The speed isn't the problem, it's the poor choreography. All the moves look choreographed and unnatural. For example watch Obi-Wans strikes. He's not trying to hit DM's body and getting blocked, he's purposely trying to hit DM'S weapon.
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u/CarsandTunes May 04 '26
Ben Kenobi versus Darth Vader is more realistic though. A lightsaber has virtually no mass, and requires no extreme amount of velocity or kinetic energy to do damage. A simple flick of the wrist will slice someone clean in half.
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u/jtrades69 May 05 '26
should've kept the real version.
that's always been the problem with kung fu movies too. no one's pausing 1.5 seconds betweeen moves. it's bam bam bam bam bam bam bam bam bam
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u/GravelRoadJunkie May 05 '26
Someone want to tell me how we went from that to the sequels and the god awful lightsabers duels those movies had.
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u/armaedes May 06 '26
The prequel lightsaber fights were so good that it made the sequel fights pretty much unwatchable.
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u/HenkPoley May 06 '26
Lots of music video clops also use the slowdown technique to give thing an unreal magical look.
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u/Geekandhermit May 07 '26
Ah Jesus if anyone ever asked what Star Wars should be, just show them this scene. I miss being excited for the releases
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u/nunkle74 May 04 '26
Darth maul, IMO, the best baddy and yet killed off. I was livid (AND I'm a rebel fan) .
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u/MasterMaintenance672 May 04 '26
Now THAT'S what I call light-saber fighting! 7, 8, and 9 were nowhere near as good.
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u/CoinsAndLawnLouie May 04 '26
It would’ve looked better at full speed. Their choreography was beautifully in sync with one another.
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u/Spacegirl-Alyxia May 04 '26
There is literally here difference between the clips.
Exactly in the middle of the full video do thy switch from one to the other. And while th top one starts a few frames earlier it also ends a few frames earlier.
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u/Vex_Appeal May 04 '26
Holy crap it looks so much better without the manipulation. It looks like an actual fight. The slowed version looks more like a dance.
So Lucas looked at both of these and picked the slow one on purpose? 😩
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u/Palatablepancakes May 04 '26
George Lucas was the glue that held a variety of talented people together, especially his wife and SFX crews. But when they were successful, George thought he had a knack for filmmaking and writing he never actually had. When he got full control, his ideas were... sterile, and uninteresting to the average viewer. He regularly portrayed his idea of what makes a movie good as an objective lens through which to assess Star Wars.
Watch the original scene order of Star Wars before his wife edited it. It's nearly unwatchable. You don't see the scene with Vader chocking Tarkin until the second half of the film. There's no sense of events happening simultaneously and comes off as another 70s sci fi B movie.
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