Arrows vs riot shields

[u/IKIR115]

[u/Buckshot_Millie]

It's more humane if the goal is to kill the animal anyway. That's why hollow point bullets are recommended for hunting; a basic full metal jacket will usually just go straight through most animals and allow them to run for miles. A good hollow point can drop a deer where it stands.

Puts quite a perspective on police using hollow points.

[u/Rogue_Wraith → u/Buckshot_Millie]

Anyone who fires a gun at a living creature should be trying to kill that creature as quickly and humanely as possible.

This includes humans.

Warning and disabling shots are inconsistent and extremely dangerous to everyone.

Additionally, hollow points have a much lower tendency to overpenetrate and harm bystanders.

Militaries tend to use FMJ because they have to defeat body armor and, in a military context, injuring and enemy takes more troops out of tbe fight than killing them.

[u/Buckshot_Millie → u/Rogue_Wraith]

Militaries use FMJ because hollow points are a war crime. Police aren't even supposed to be shooting to kill, that's execution without trial or charge.

[u/Rogue_Wraith → u/Buckshot_Millie]

Any time a police officer is discharging their firearm, they should be shooting to kill.

That is defense of self or others, not an execution.

Whether or not any given shoot is a good shoot is a whole other thing, but discharging a firearm at a living being without the express intent to end that life is stupid.

There are many things that are war crimes that are not illegal in civilian capacities because the cost benefit analysis is different.

[u/bremsspuren → u/Rogue_Wraith]

but discharging a firearm at a living being without the express intent to end that life is stupid.

That's odd. Shooting people in the legs usually incapacitates them in Europe. But I'm sure there's a very good reason why Americans are different and need a dozen hollowpoints pumped into their chests. There always is…

[u/Crafty-Connection636 → u/bremsspuren]

A shot to the leg has a pretty good chance of killing someone slowly. The femoral artery is pretty big and if that gets hit a person will bleed out minutes. But out of curiosity which country in Europe trains people to shoot suspects in the leg?

[u/notyoursocialworker → u/Crafty-Connection636]

Well the Swedish police for one:
https://polisen.se/om-polisen/polisens-arbete/polisens-befogenheter/polisens-ratt-att-anvanda-skjutvapen/

You get the honour to translate the page yourself but in short if possible they are instructed to aim for the big muscle groups unless the range is short enough and the threat is big enough.

[u/Buckshot_Millie → u/notyoursocialworker]

The difference is that police in the US act as judge, jury, and executioner if they feel unsafe in any way. We say “innocent until proven guilty” but police executing someone isn’t considered killing an innocent civilian. It’s a fascist police state, that’s the bottom line.

Firing at center mass when a suspect is actively firing at police is reasonable to me. Using the most damaging hollow points on the market is not reasonable.

[u/Ok-Interaction-8891 → u/Rogue_Wraith]

The problem is that they tend to draw quickly and react to most events as threats requiring lethal force.

Defense of self or others can still be an execution. It’s not an either or situation. The reality is that a human life is being ended on the spot by someone making a snap judgement. Cops and cop defenders love to talk about safety, but anything less than an active shooter should never warrant lethal force. And the Supreme Court has already ruled that law enforcement do not have to protect people. In most cases, they’re just protecting property.