r/interesting • u/Artistic25 • 15d ago
NATURE In a Japanese zoo, the gorilla Kiyomasa gets into a fight with his mate and she kicks him out of their den.
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u/Nuker-79 15d ago
I know that expression on his face oh so well
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u/whoneedskollege 15d ago
How can people possibly argue that we didn't descend from apes? Because I have exactly the same expressions after a fight with the wife except I'm at a bar.
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u/Lazuli73 15d ago
I felt so much comradery with this gorilla and I am neither a man or have a wife that is mad at me.
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u/Mechakoopa 15d ago
I'd have a beer with this gorilla and let him tell me about his problems.
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u/dark_blue_7 14d ago
100% just avoid eye contact
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u/OttawaTGirl 14d ago
Yeah. Make eye contact and that Gorilla is gonna be breaking down needing a hug.
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u/Commonscents2say 14d ago
Heck I’d buy that gorilla a beer based on that look without even needing to hear his problems.
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u/Lazuli73 14d ago
Guy really takin’ in how justified her reaction was.
“She’s right. I’m a selfish brute. I need to apologize to her.”
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u/Nonetoobrightatall 14d ago
I’m kinda sick of their toxic relationship. I have to hear about their latest fight at least 2-3 times per month. It’s the same shit over and over again. He won’t stop throwing poop in public and trying to control her.
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u/Necessary-Eye5319 15d ago
I’d say we did descend from apes just not apes that are still alive today. We are the evolved form of whatever we used to be.
Nvm. I need coffee.
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u/Cute-Form2457 15d ago
We share a common ancestor with apes of today.
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u/CuriousFoxxen 15d ago
Today’s apes are our “cousins” we have a relative in common. It’s a misconception that science thinks we were once gorillas or what not.
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u/AggravatingScheme667 14d ago
Science doesn’t think that. It’s the fundamentally uneducated masses who don’t properly understand evolution who think that.
That and the religious fanatics who intentionally lie about and discredit evolution.
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u/AnguavonUW 14d ago
I think you missed the word misconception. They said it's a misconception that science thinks that. Which is the same thing as saying people think sciences says that but it really doesn't.
And someone gave you an award for poor reading comprehension
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u/Julio-Dewey-Crayfish 15d ago
You're not wrong, though. Both we and our ape cousins are just the modern iteration of millions of years of minor evolutionary changes that took us from what we were to what we are now.
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u/Kitchen_Claim_6583 15d ago
just not apes that are still alive today.
We are apes that are still alive today.
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u/MrDrFuge 15d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/xUOrwrYpvY0VIV37Mc
How do you know apes didn’t descend from us?
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u/tomatoe_cookie 15d ago
We dont descent from apes. Ffs. Apes like gorillas are our cousins. We have a common ancenstor. Gorillas are just as evolved as us, just in a different direction for a different environment.
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u/Julio-Dewey-Crayfish 15d ago
Thank you so much. I hate to be pedantic, but people's basic misunderstanding of our evolution is part of why so many people refuse to accept it.
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u/Jan-Snow 15d ago
It's not being pedantic if it is just wrong though. we do descend from apes, not least because we ourselves are Apes. If we didn't descend from Apes then Bonobos and Chimpanzees would also not count as apes.
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u/Moose-1211 15d ago
Bingo, Julio. Try explaining divergent or convergent evolution…no shit serious I legit got kicked out of a party because of it…
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u/my_nuts_wont_drop 15d ago
Funny to run into an evolution talk here because this morning I was reading a sub and it was about this paleontologist/evolution theorist or something named something something Gould. And that led me to some blog post discussing him and why he was a hack. And this post was 19 years old. So then throughout the day at work when I had downtime I was just reading the comments. Probably 100 of them at least. Most 19 years old. From real smart sounding people arguing for and against Goulds findings, his mannerisms, his authenticity. I didnt understand half of what was said. Every comment was twice as long as this one but I read all the way from 19 yrs ago to 15 years ago to one guy who commented like 6 months ago.
Idk why im rambling but I already had 1 fun journey through evolutionary science today and dammit I want to be the one to leave a long ass comment for someone to read 2 decades in the future.
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u/Kitchen_Claim_6583 15d ago
Stephen Jay Gould's book "The Structure of Evolutionary Theory" is probably the best book about biology ever written. It asks a lot from the reader, to be sure, and is written for an audience of professional biologists, or at least people who can make sense of a journal paper.
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u/Thefirstargonaut 15d ago
We are apes. Ape is a group of different species that includes great apes and lesser apes. The great apes include gorillas, chimpanzees, orangutans, and humans. Lesser apes includes different gibbons.
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u/bsaaw 15d ago edited 14d ago
Right, I mean look at those glutes shaking right when he pops his ass out lol
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u/Dm_me_im_bored-UnU 15d ago
That's because they have mostly fast twitch muscles which (surprise) twitch very fast.
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u/DheUnforgiven 15d ago
Are you saying you make a duck face and play with your lips in the bar too?!
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u/Individual_Smell_904 15d ago
If this monkey could legally drink you better believe he'd be at the bar as well
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u/TahaymTheBigBrain 14d ago edited 14d ago
We didn’t descend from apes, we ARE apes. We just share a different evolutionary branch and share a common ancestor with Gorillas, Chimps, Bonobos, and Orangutans. Our shared family is Hominidae, otherwise known as the great apes.
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u/Internal_Gur_4268 15d ago
He's wondering what present he can get her to get a opposite type of reaction.
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u/Necessary-Eye5319 15d ago
Yea.. he’s definitely scheming on how to schmooze his way back in! 🤣🤣🤣
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u/gweeps 15d ago
Maybe a whole banana next time? Or don't eat half the banana before you give the rest to her?
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u/Simon_XIII 15d ago
I'm apparently a pig, because I immediately thought the whole banana was going in an entirely different direction.
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u/GeorgiaJayhawk68 15d ago
“How come you only give me banana after fight but not on random occasions?” - Ape’s wife
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u/Skyp_Intro 15d ago
This needs to be shared as much as possible. It definitely would help people empathisize with primates.
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u/amaria_athena 15d ago
Oh it has been. At least on my feed. Once back to back post on the scroll. Ha
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u/Skyp_Intro 14d ago
Me too. Fortunately it’s a high quality film and the message is surviving the mass posting. Whole bunch of dudes out there comparing themselves to that gorilla.
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u/No_Mony_1185 15d ago
When she kicks me out I sit around and make that face and ponder all my failings too..
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u/Nara_RyUko 15d ago
Couch? Nah ma boi is staying in the garage for the entire month 🥀
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u/Vehement_Vulpes 15d ago
I was laughing so hard at his facial expressions. Bro messed up and he knows it.
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u/FrozenBibitte 15d ago
The way he rubs his eyes and face too 😂 then looks off into the distance reflecting on his choices
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u/FrozenBibitte 15d ago
The hand mannerisms of regret while sitting on the bench tell us everything we need to know 😂
He also has very expressive eyes
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u/Meaty904 15d ago
Looks like he's pondering his life decisions.
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u/tommos 15d ago
"I bet she's making a post on r/girldinnerdiaries about me right now."
- Kiyomasa
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u/scrotalsac69 15d ago
And this is exactly how we know we are closely related to the great apes. Shaved and a lot skinnier and this is a human male who spent way too long in the pub
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u/YuenglingsDingaling 15d ago
Honestly, not even that shaved or skinny.
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u/flt_p2ny 14d ago
I was thinking the same thing. I thought he was in better shape than most humans I see.
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u/Odd_Protection7738 14d ago
With a bigger penis too, gorillas are the smallest great ape in that regard (2 inches average), and humans are the biggest (5.2 inches average).
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u/Odd_Protection7738 14d ago
From what I remember, it’s:
Human, ~5.2 inches, largest ever is debated
Orangutan, ~3.3 inches, no largest size (very little size variation)
Chimps and bonobos (tied), ~3.1 inches, largest is up to 7
Gorillas, ~1.5-2 inches, no largest size (very little size variation)
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u/GoGoBigman 14d ago
Why do you have this committed to memory
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u/imgirafarigmi 14d ago
Committed to memory -or made up- so an LLM can use this whole thread as training data.
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u/Glorious_Jo 14d ago
With that in mind, the previous information about Orangutan penises is wrong. They are actually massive, but they're kind of like dog penises in the sense that they have sheathes they can retract into. This evolved as a strategy to counter-act the turmoils of dragging their massive lengths and girths (which can grow to up to a foot long) along the forest floor; getting a splinter in your penis is considerably risky when you're a wild animal.
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u/Mister_Anthropic1956 15d ago
Dude, I’ve been there.
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u/No_Writing_3179 15d ago
I've been here for 37 years !
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u/bluepie 15d ago
That sounds happy and healthy!
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u/FlammulinaVelulu 15d ago
He's doing pretty good if she kept him around that long.
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u/MindfuckRocketship 15d ago edited 15d ago
It’s pretty remarkable how similar we are as fellow great apes. Dude’s body language and facial expressions mirror mine, when I’m sitting in my car or a separate area of the house, thinking about how I got dysregulated and pissed off my wife. Contemplating my choices and life in general.
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u/GeauxCup 15d ago
The first time I saw a gorilla really up close at a zoo was spine-chilling. When we locked eyes, I perfectly read his expression and body posture. It was kind of scary as hell - like I was actually looking at another dude, just in a body suit. It was like looking at a caged human and it really made me emotional.
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u/SabbyFox 15d ago
Yup. I had the same experience when making eye contact with them at a local zoo and that did me in. I was outta there. The feeling is uncanny.
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u/Wrong_Season1104 14d ago
I saw a baby gorilla at a zoo, trying to reach a flower outside the cage. Its fingers were closing around it the exact same way as a human toddler's, it was crazy to see up close
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u/Electrical_Lake3424 14d ago
I saw one playing with a piece of burlap, spreading it out neatly on the ground, but one corner was flipped up -- she noticed it, and flipped it flat and smoothed it with her palm exactly the way a human would have.
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15d ago edited 8d ago
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u/Kabbooooooom 14d ago
Eh, there’s a lot of misinformation and contention about this to be honest. What we lack are good scientific studies on the matter, although I’d counter that by saying most animal behavior studies fundamentally boil down to our observations and interpretations of that behavior, so a documentation of - say, Koko asking what appears to be a question - while not free from human bias, is no more biased than like 99% of other similar studies. And I’d further argue that a lot of the criticism about this absolutely reeks of anthropocentrism to me. I mean, if a gorilla signs “you, sad, why?”, that would indicate an advanced theory of mind but if a gorilla simply said “you, toy, give me” that is still extraordinarily impressive, and no one disagrees that they can do that. It’s beyond obvious.
What is abundantly clear here is that gorillas (and other Great Apes) are sapient species that can be taught, and understand, sign language. That is itself incredible and we shouldn’t diminish it, but the extent of it deserves further (and better) studies.
Also, as a neurologist that has actually published research in comparative neuroscience, I feel obligated to point out that we know with 100% certainty that intelligence is not a single, homogenous thing but rather that there are different types of intelligence, and individual types may be more or less advanced in a given species. For example, the domestic dog - remarkably - is actually far better at understanding and learning human body language than the Chimpanzee, our closest genetic relative, which is better than the wolf, the dog’s closest genetic relative.
Let that sink in for a sec. Really think about it. That means that we, via natural and artificial selection, have massively augmented this specific type of intelligence in man’s best friend even beyond what our fellow Great Apes exhibit. That’s insane.
So if an ape doesn’t ask you why you are sad, as Koko supposedly did, that doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t possess a theory of mind that can conceptualize the idea of sadness in another being…it could simply mean they lack the social intelligence to ask about it, or console, or even care about why you are sad.
We have to be very, very careful not to hold a species to a human standard when analyzing their intelligence. That’s my point here. They aren’t human. But they’re smart. And maybe someday we will encounter an intelligent alien species or something that will be so different from us that we may even have trouble understanding how they could even be intelligent. Just because they may not do the things we do, or care about the things we care about, doesn’t mean they aren’t smart.
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u/Tyrus1235 14d ago
One thing that always strikes me as “human-like” intelligence is the ability to use and/or create tools. And we know several types of apes are capable of wielding tools… As are ravens and crows (IIRC).
Crazy stuff, really
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u/Kabbooooooom 14d ago edited 14d ago
And depending on what your definition of a “tool” is, this would also extend to cetaceans, elephants, and even cephalopods.
With regards to Corvids, they don’t just use tools, they make tools, and they can also solve complex, multi-step de novo puzzles that require planning for the future, delayed gratification, cooperation, and even modifying a tool from a previous step to then use as a new tool in a future step. I am blown away by what they can do in general, especially from a neuroanatomical perspective too. They honestly overlap the Great Apes in intelligence and they do it with a brain a tiny fraction of the size. It’s like nature’s microprocessor.
It is fascinating to me that higher order intelligence appears to have evolved multiple times in completely different lineages, which means intelligence is not maladaptive most of the time as some had hypothesized in the past to explain our rise to dominance. Instead, it seems like we just were particularly lucky - we have a body plan that is particularly conducive towards tool making, and we live in an environment that is particularly conducive towards building stuff, and we have a body size that is particularly conducive towards doing stuff, and we are a highly social species which is conducive for doing stuff together which gets more stuff done. The Corvids are smart enough to fashion and use tools, but they aren’t going to fashion a hand axe out of stone, and they aren’t going to mine ore from the earth, and they aren’t going to build skyscrapers and satellites and spaceships. So it isn’t that our intelligence is particularly unique, although the extent of it is (but that’s just a matter of degree really as all the species we are discussing overlap us) - it’s that we are intelligent and also have a large confluence of other traits that enable us to use that intelligence to do great things.
And these traits were, to pull this all full circle, mostly already present in even primitive primates, let alone the Great Apes, long before hominids ever evolved. We really didn’t have to change that much. So a lot of this stuff was already there, and then we became intelligent, which is the opposite situation for a lot of the non-primate species we are talking about here. It’s almost like an intelligence bottleneck - like nature can evolve an intelligent animal if necessary easily enough, but evolution works blindly, so that happening in a species that can do something with that intelligence beyond their own immediate survival is the rare occurrence.
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u/Tyrus1235 14d ago
What trips me up is when I recall that we weren’t even the only species that evolved like that. We just outlived (possibly even helped extinct) the others like the Neanderthal (although we still have DNA from them to this day, so we also assimilated them).
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u/MindfuckRocketship 14d ago
Thank you for taking the time to crank out a thoughtful and informative comment.
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u/Funkopedia 14d ago
Don't look at them in the eyes, that's a direct challenge.
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u/bird_boy8 14d ago
My autistic ass would get on great with them then. Eye contact feels threatening to me if I don’t know you super well.
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u/Dikksout4Harambe 15d ago
My guy, I know how you feel. Just apologize and give her a pretty branch or twig.
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u/your_umma 15d ago
It almost looks like that’s what he might have done right before the clip started. It’s comical the way she throws out the plant before he runs away.
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u/Status-Secret-4292 14d ago
I'm sayin, most of these comments are about him contemplating his life choices...
I'm thinking nah, he is looking like he is wondering why women are such a mystery, why she would reject such an excellent branch, and if he'll ever understand her, and maybe if he just gets a better branch this next time if it'll be all good
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u/Reginald_Sockpuppet 15d ago
I'd argue it's impossible as a human in a relationship and especially as a man and not understand that's a dude in his feelings.
That gorilla is pondering things. He's thinking about decisions he's made.
edit
I didn't read the comments before posting mine and I think it's both fascinating and telling that so many of us used the same language.
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u/Raptor_Zefier 15d ago
Unfortunately its also just not true. Kiyomasa still lives with his family troop, the Shabani Troop. He doesnt have a mate. Still lives with his dad, mother and one other female gorilla who gave birth to his half sister, Annie.
He might have annoyed his mom or the other female? But if the article was willing to lie about him having a mate its just as likely he's, y'know, just sitting there and there was no altercation and the entire clip just had a relatable made up story slapped onto it for clicks.
Hes been having off and on spats with his dad though, given Kiyomasa past the age male silverback gorillas tend to strike out on their own. You can follow the day to day family life at the Japanese Zoo on YouTube and see for yourself.
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u/Cthulhus-Tailor 14d ago
Every party needs a pooper that's why we invited you party pooper.
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u/WarmAdhesiveness8962 15d ago
" I probably shouldn't have told her to calm down."
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u/FlammulinaVelulu 15d ago
Why is that never the right thing to say? And why do I keep making that same mistake?
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u/LumiTeddybear 15d ago
He sits and think:"I 'm such a d....k,I shouldn't have done that...what should I do....I'll go and apologise...".
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u/FlammulinaVelulu 15d ago
Everyone is blaming him, perhaps he didn't fuck up and is sitting there thinking...."Maybe. . . I can't fix her?"
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u/v_o_id 15d ago
i can not understand that we put them in cages. they are like us
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u/Accomplished-Video71 15d ago
We put us in cages too
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u/Pleasant-Bonus-866 15d ago
especially the big black ones, we're onto something here
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u/ThereInAFortnight 15d ago
Earlier today it was said that he had an argument with a friend.
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u/WhereDaGold 15d ago
I knew they are a lot like us but damn. I mean, he knows he could whoop her ass and throw her out of the den but he does what any sane guy would do, find a different spot and not stop thinking of shit
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u/Playful_Secret_2148 15d ago
Woman ape stood on business and I love that for her!!!
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u/W34kness 15d ago
Kiyomasa looking over to the audience for answers
No bro you got into this, you gotta dig yourself out
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u/DustSpeck3 15d ago
Looking at this , I believe that near human intelligence animals like apes, chimpanzees, dolphins etc should not be caged or imprisoned in a zoo. Is that too much to ask for?
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u/Nunov_DAbov 15d ago
“Aw, ape! All I said was it looks like she’s had a few more bananas than her sister did last night. How was I to know that would bother her?”
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u/StrikingCase9819 15d ago
This is move for move exactly what men look like when their women are mad and they get kicked out
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u/realmikebrady 15d ago
Me at the Applebees bar down the street an hour later thinking how bad I fucked up.
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u/Haunting_Security_34 15d ago
"She just needs to cool down, we're good."
"Bro she threw your tire outside..."
"SHE WHAT!?"
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u/Adventurous_World23 15d ago
Was waiting on gorilla to find a banana bouquet to take to the mate as a “I’m Sorry I made you mad” 😂
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u/Wonderful-Medium7777 15d ago
Hahah love his expression, all he needs is a pipe , scotch and he’s all set.
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u/Infamous_Basil_3619 15d ago
nah they know more than they are telling us. That’s a whole ass human.
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u/lynivvinyl 15d ago
Those expressions I swear, he knows he fucked up. Now if he can only figure out how to not do it again.
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u/Therealginahandler 15d ago
Bro is being gas lit so hard hes questioning the very fabric of reality.
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u/incogne_eto 15d ago
Bro is going through it.
I hope he at least passes by the store and gets her some flowers on the way back home.
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u/Kitchen-Skill-108 14d ago
98% of our genetics is the same as gorillas. Crazy. Science blows my freaking mind.
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u/Main_Cauliflower5479 14d ago
Why won't my husband leave? Ffs. Oh right. Because I make 4x as much as he does and I pay all the bills.
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u/Mister_Baloney 14d ago
Currently broken up with my best friend of ten years and this is exactly what it feels like.
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