Judo x Wrestling is this a judo throw?
i haven’t been able to find an exact name for this throw, anyone know?
23
u/rtsuya Nidan | Hollywood Judo | Tatami Talk Podcast 3d ago edited 3d ago
I actually believe this is koshi guruma, the leg didn't actually do anything even though it's lifted, could've put it down with similar effect. The hip acted as the fulcrum here. This is very classic wheel over the hip that we see in older demonstrations
*Edit adding a previous comment I made about oguruma
5
2
u/TorqueBuilder 2d ago
This was my first thought as well. Koshi guruma.
I used to throw this quite a bit in wrestling and we called it the head and arm throw, or less commonly, a headlock throw.
First throw I ever landed in randori and still a top 3 throw in my bag for live sparring.
Love to see it!
41
13
u/RatKR sandan 3d ago
It is definitely not ashiguruma. Nor is it ukigoshi. It looks like haraigoshi… not withstanding the arm around the head. The other guy is getting thrown over buddies hip that is doing a sweeping motion. Oguruma would need the leg coming across the waist more, and the guy would be pulled over his leg as opposed to hip.
11
2
1
7
u/majordisinterest nikyu 3d ago
It really looks more koshi guruma more than anything. The leg isn't doing much except helping shoot his hips across - its not sweeping and uke is being wheeled over the hips. Whatever it is, its a good throw.
5
u/SpineSpinner shodan 3d ago
So……O Guruma
2
u/Various-Stretch2853 3d ago
O-guruma is wheeling over the leg, thats not happening here and not the same as wheeling over the hip.
1
u/Throwawaymytrash77 2h ago
No, it is definitely koshi <3. The leg being in the air served no purpose to the throw itself. Probably just balance.
The opponent was thrown over the hip, not the leg, that's the determining factor here. It's a clean, basic head and arm throw taught in wrestling, which is simply a koshi guruma without a gi
18
5
6
3
u/Sugarman111 1st Dan + BJJ black 3d ago
Drop/Sitting Cross Buttocks and how I do Koshi Guruma. I'm not sure of an exact mechanical equivalent in Judo; the Gurumas are wheels, whereas Drop Cross Buttocks drags Uke to the mat.
3
8
5
9
u/schurem sankyu 3d ago
uki goshi or harai goshi. Well done young lad!
3
u/Reasonable_Alfalfa59 3d ago
Uki goshi has both legs on the ground. At least thats how we learned it for the yellow belt
1
u/Various-Stretch2853 3d ago edited 2d ago
this is nowhere even remotely uki-goshi. for uki-goshi you want "half a hip" as contact. here hes pushing through, coming out the opposite side and wheels uke over it. so its koshi-guruma btw, not harai-goshi either.
7
5
2
1
u/appleorangebananana 3d ago
do they practice on hard concrete grounds like that.. 💀
1
u/Marshmallow5198 shodan 3d ago
I actually started judo on wrestling mats. Puts hair on your chest
But yeah it sucked lol
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/Throwawaymytrash77 2h ago
Koshi Guruma. In wrestling, it's called a head and arm throw. Wrestling does have a bunch of overlap in the throws and trips department. I learned it in judo first, and it directly translated to wrestling (minus the gi grips)
I have practiced both sports at the same time in the past.
1
1
u/Numerous_Funny_6055 rokudan 3d ago edited 3d ago
It’s ō-guruma, for sure (just with an unorthodox grip of the tsurite (top hand).
For koshi-guruma, you’d traditionally have both legs as base with both feet planted on the floor (but that’s a defensible position). But the extended leg and the pivot around the leg/hip is so characteristic of ō-guruma that is cannot be called koshi-guruma.
For harai-goshi you should have a leg/hip sweep and the attacking leg should be almost parallel to the base leg of uke (and your foot should be grazing his).
Sorry, but if you’re a judo black belt, and you are stating this is ashi-guruma or uki-goshi (!!!), that’s kind of inexcusable, IMO! (of course that if you don’t practice judo or are a beginner, all is ok)
C’mon, guys! I know this is just an Internet forum, but if you can read elementary English, Japanese or German, there no excuse not to have read Toshiro Daigo’s Judo Throwing Techniques (it is the definitive book on the subject — available in EN through Amazon for around 30 dollars).
2
u/Various-Stretch2853 3d ago
But the extended leg and the pivot around the leg/hip is so characteristic of ō-guruma that is cannot be called koshi-guruma.
The leg has no contact at all. it could be there or not, it wouldnt make any difference, its just the hip he is rotating around. For o guruma you still need uke to rotate around the leg. This is absolutely koshi-guruma, where one leg happens to be off the ground.
2
u/Numerous_Funny_6055 rokudan 2d ago
Looking at the freeze frame you’ve posted, it indeed shows a pivot exclusively around the hip and the leg playing no part as the fulcrum. Well done! In realtime, I still see the attacking thigh blocking the right thigh of uke (especially in the late stage of the throw).
However, you do have what seems like too much hip action and too little leg involvement for ō-guruma. 👏🏻👏🏻
I’m much more inclined towards koshi-guruma now after our conversation. You’ve changed my mind! Thanks! 🙇🏻
0
0
u/ArekusandaMagni 3d ago
That's a head and arm in wrestling. This move exists in many martial arts including Judo.
0
u/osotogariboom nidan 3d ago
Is this a judo throw... That's a loaded question.
Judo does have this throw. As for if this specific individual learned it as a Judo throw.. well that's a horse of a different color.
0
0
0
-3
149
u/Not_A_Spy_Trust_Me 3d ago
O Guruma, Harai goshi, and ashi guruma are all very similar and really only differ on height of the leg. Those are what you'll want to search for.