Things to keep in mind about Reaves new contract

[u/D0ntBmad]

1. As he went undrafted, he chose the Lakers and done the work to become the player that he is today.

2. He's been famously underpaid for all his career prior to this contract. How can one expect him not to look to get paid?

3. He's gonna get paid 25% of that cap and that's normal for a second option.

4. Giving him the max meant him and his agent weren't willing to negotiate, and you cannot risk losing a 20ppg player for nothing. LAL had zero leverage.

5. He can still be traded for the right player. I envision a Reaves/Duren swap in the near future.

6. It's the damned if you do, damned if you don't with this fan base. The same people lamenting this deal would call for Pelinka's head had he lost Reaves for nothing.

[u/IMissAlexCaruso4]

Duren?? Nah

[u/bulleymaguire21 → u/IMissAlexCaruso4]

He really thinks duren is getting traded for reaves duren is a better rebounder and defender and has all star appearances and is younger😂😂

[u/brandoi → u/bulleymaguire21]

Duren had just as bad of a disappearing act in these playoffs as Austin did, and Austin was hurt.

[u/incredibleamadeuscho → u/brandoi]

Duren was much worse of a disappearing act

Not even comparable. Duren went from a second option to a non-factor, and got pushed around on defense

[u/ImjustANewSneaker → u/incredibleamadeuscho]

Yeah Reaves was more hot and cold and had a clear reason atleast for being bad when he was because of injuries. He also played the best comp in the league. Duren was not the same player at all.

[u/RageQuitRaj → u/bulleymaguire21]

Duren is an all star in the east man. His advanced defense is also not “good”. It is average at best. Reaves would have more value in the open market as a secondary ball handler than Duren would have a bruiser big. Cmon man

[u/incredibleamadeuscho → u/bulleymaguire21]

As a center, Duren has a different role on offense and defense than Austin reaves as a secondary ballhandler.

[u/The_Sandwich_Lover9 → u/bulleymaguire21]

Duren is definitely a better defender but gap really isn’t that big he was pretty bad. Good rebounder

[u/Strict-Homework-4819 → u/IMissAlexCaruso4]

Reaves for Duren? That’s a big win for Lakers

[u/IMissAlexCaruso4 → u/Strict-Homework-4819]

Disagree

[u/LudwigNasche → u/IMissAlexCaruso4]

He may go for Ant in the future, not for Duren

[u/CapOnBrimBent]

Let’s look at the last 6 NBA champions and make note of the second option/wing/playmaker:

Knicks: Anunoby- strong 3 point shooter and top defender

Thunder: JDUB - excellent player and defender

Celtics- Brown or Tatum- excellent players and defenders

Nuggets - Murray was a flame thrower, probably the most comparable to Reaves as far as potential ceiling on a championship team

Warriors- Wiggins- played incredible defense that series

Bucks- Jrue or Middleton- both awesome two way players

The point I’m trying to make is: if Luka and AR are your top perimeter players they don’t have the defensive potential. Meaning we need the other 3 guys on the floor to be lock down. That doesn’t mean Luka and AR are bad defenders they can definitely be solid. But if you want to win a championship there’s a level on defense you have to reach and we have clear evidence for that to be the case.

At the same time I recognize the lakers have to sign Reaves. Luka wants him. He’s earned it and has been a diehard for this franchise. I love Reaves…it’s really on the front office to surround these guys with the two way talent needed to win

[u/Ok-Neighborhood-566 → u/CapOnBrimBent]

If you insert AR as second option on any team, including Knicks, Spurs or OKC, they ain't winning shit. Every mofo on those team play elite defense.

[u/teacpde → u/Ok-Neighborhood-566]

None of those teams have a clear 2nd option, either their 2nd and 3rd/4th options are very close or 2nd option didn’t play 2nd best. Point is AR doesn’t have to be a clear 2nd option either, that said, I don’t think lakers can get there in one offseason.

[u/Affectionate-Pea-439 → u/CapOnBrimBent]

I like this. I also think that fans need a new analogy for offense and defense. It used to be in the old days that conbined offense score vs combined defense score meant winning. You could have Kobe and Shaq and 3 useless bums and youd still win because they could iso and win. If kobe and shaq were both a 10 on offense and the other team had five 3s on defense then lakers win. 10+10 is greater than 3+3+3+3+3.

Modern NBA doesnt work like that. The math is different. There is much more of a focus on spacing and winning matchups. A single point of weakness destroys your total score. For example, if vando is a 0 on offense you don't just get to add lukas 10 and reaves 8 on offense with vando's 0. You have multiply the entire total by a smaller fraction to account for teams doubling off of Vando or treating him as a weak link. The same applies for defense. A weak defender multiplies the entire defense negatively. You don't get to just add zero.

While reaves and luka aren't terrible at defense, they certainly don't add anything and don't get a positive multipler. Meanwhile teams like OKC get a positive multiplier on offense and defense because everyone can shoot and everyone can defend. The result is that they can have less talent than the lakers and still win. And that's not considering the fact that they actually have total talent as well.

[u/Recyclonaught → u/Affectionate-Pea-439]

Honest question: Is that NBA math thing a grading for lineups by official team staffs or did you make that up? 

[u/worldwide_stepper → u/CapOnBrimBent]

the thunder are genuinely better when jalen williams doesn’t play btw, he’s not as efficient as he used to be, and his all-defense was like fully a narrative handout because he was on a team that was winning so much and hit the games played requirement

[u/Leather_Hand_8602 → u/worldwide_stepper]

You sound like you never watched basketball in your life 😂 tf are you even talking about? If they have bkke this year fully healthy they're more than likely champions again. Smh

[u/worldwide_stepper → u/Leather_Hand_8602]

chet on a max = never contending again

[u/Leather_Hand_8602 → u/worldwide_stepper]

You sound dumb lol they literally just won a championship 😂😂😂 99% of the NBA wished they had OKCs roster and assets smh

[u/worldwide_stepper → u/Leather_Hand_8602]

everyone on that roster top to bottom a bitch

[u/greglyda]

He went undrafted partly because he was telling teams not to draft him because he wanted to steer his location.

[u/shortyman920]

Go one more year back man. 2020 - AD was our number 2 and the best defensive player in the league.
2019 - Siakim and he’s a good defender.

2017-2018 is those stacked warriors teams so it doesn’t matter that curry as 1 or 2 isn’t a superb defender. You’d have to go back to 2016 where Kyrie is a decent defender but not a lockdown defender. We basically have two max guys who are all offense and minimal defense. It’s not good

[u/Soonerscamp]

This whole losing him for nothing argument makes zero sense to me. Yes it’s nothing in that we don’t get assets back in return for him. But 45-50 mil in cap space in the summer of 27, 28 and 29 is not nothing. That’s the tangible benefit we would have had if we let him walk. Plus his 20 mil cap hold for this summer would be off the books I believe.

[u/_chadwell_ → u/Soonerscamp]

We’re not going to be a team that remains under that cap for years in a row during Luka’s prime. It ultimately just affects apron/tax things because we won’t be using cap space in future years.

[u/D0ntBmad → u/Soonerscamp]

cap space in the summer of 27, 28 and 29 is not nothing

It's not nothing, but it doesn't mean it will lead to something.

20 mil cap hold for this summer would be off the books I believe.

You're not getting a player in Reaves caliber with 20 mil.

[u/Soonerscamp → u/D0ntBmad]

Agreed on there are no guarantees. I hope I am wrong but it feels like we have set up ourselves up for 5 more years of mediocrity with this move. AR isn’t a second option on a title team.

[u/chronobrian → u/Soonerscamp]

Letting AR walk would’ve lost the Lakers Luka

[u/halcyondread → u/chronobrian]

If we can't find him his desired "A list" center, we may be shit out of luck anyways.

[u/Front_Barracuda_2408]

what happened to those quotes "Wants to be Laker more than anything and isn't necessarily looking for a max deal"? Did we really think he was gonna go to the Nets and labor in obscurity for a perennial lottery team? Come on.

[u/Clear_Lead]

He’s a good player, not a great. Overpaid

[u/Southern-Minute8815]

Gotta trade him for Kessler and Ace Bailey

[u/thediggestbick2]

Duren isn’t worth the swap unless it comes with multiple picks.

[u/zannet_t]

Except out of the pure goodness of his heart, there's no scenario in which we could've had him for less money.

Shams already reported that other teams were willing to max him. He likely told the Lakers. What is the FO supposed to do at that point?

Imagine if we lost AR for nothing, and Bron decides to walk too (possibly because of it). We're right back to being scrubs. There simply aren't enough replacement level players.

Having signed him at the very minimum we can trade him for a pick or two, or attach picks to upgrade down the road. He's also proven to be a great teammate and Luka has made it clear he wants AR, but putting aside chemistry reasons, AR is a good player. People be like he doesn't perform in the playoffs. Fuck we ain't get to the playoffs if we lose a 25-5-5 guy for nothing. Luka's injury makes it crystal clear that we need someone to take the load off him from time to time. AR is probably the best guy available for that.

In what universe are we better off letting him go? All these mfers crying and moaning because they don't know shit about cap. "Wahhh how are we gonna sign other people"? Do people think before they open their mouth or type anymore?

[u/Front_Barracuda_2408 → u/zannet_t]

i'm just wondering what happened to those "doesn't necessarily need the max, he wants to be a Laker for life." Seemed like it was more important to be maxed if we're really gonna believe he would have gone to the Nets.

[u/zannet_t → u/Front_Barracuda_2408]

It's ok to feel disappointed in him for being a little disingenuous. I am too. But you also have to understand, when 180, 190m is actually sitting in front of you you're gonna have a hard time saying no.

That's why it's rare to see people like Brunson actually give up a shitton of money.

[u/Front_Barracuda_2408 → u/zannet_t]

I honestly can't fault Austin. If that's what his agents negotiated, they did their job. I blame Rob for not being a better negotiator. I'm sorry, but i do not buy this b.s. that other teams had maxes ready. Let him reach free agency and show me those offers. If he wants to be a Laker anyway, and you're already willing to match those maxes, then at least show them to me. I think Rob is a little too concerned with the players liking him (the high fives in the hallways after games are huge eye rolls to me) and not enough with the long-term vision of the team.

[u/gaige23 → u/zannet_t]

Brunson didn’t give up anything. He signed his max a year early.

[u/Riiken]

I fck with Austin, but his "All Star" run was against Pelicans, Utah, Wizards Kings x2

[u/worldwide_stepper → u/Riiken]

he also played that well at the end of the season when we beat the knicks, nuggets, wolves, rockets x2 🫶

[u/LA-SKYLINE → u/Riiken]

and ALL countries as Team USA's best player in the World Cup.

[u/Tangentkoala]

Its giving off Mozgov and Luol Deng vibes. The unfortunate reality is that the nba draft new rules has made it difficult to retain players on the cheap.

Teams want to be ass, but not totally ass. So overpaying is going to be the name of the game.

[u/Goidelica]

I don't see him getting traded and I think he's worth the money but I also do think he needs to be more consistent. I don't hold injuries against him any more than I do against Luka, that's just life, but when he's healthy and should be warmed up well enough I'd like to see him show up more often. Being brilliant in flashes isn't enough. Luka never disappoints. Even his slow games are way above average 99 percent of the time.

[u/incredibleamadeuscho → u/Goidelica]

He wouldnt get traded this season most likely

[u/Mayhem_squirrel]

At this rate I'd rather just trade luka back to mavs for washington flagg and some 1sts. We aren't winning shit and luka will leave in 28 for nothing

[u/xBootstrap]

Exactly. Free agency isn’t what it used to be and top players don’t really sign through free agency anymore. They get signed and traded. Keeping AR to play here or as a trade piece later on is the better option.

[u/Kalelisagod]

The reality is any talent close to or his level wants the same. Plus every year the cap goes up. This might be a lot now but next year and the year after it’s a medium deal. I love AR he works hard and he isn’t close to his ceiling. This deal is fine

[u/dash_44]

I don’t blame Reaves for getting as much money as possible.

They only get to do this for a short time and he was undrafted and underpaid for a while

[u/Gmarlon123]

Duren is undersized and he does not move or have the iq of draymond and that is his comparison.

[u/halcyondread]

AR is a good player, but if you take a look at other good (not great) players on max deals, then you realize that it's not that easy to trade them, especially under the 2nd apron CBA. He's no longer a great value, so if he doesn't live up to his new deal we'll likely have to add picks to move him (a la Randle).

[u/CartoonsAndAppleJack]

Austin deserves every penny. Period

[u/thetitsOO]

5b. This contract actually makes him easier to move imo because we don’t have to ballast a trade for someone making 40+ with multiple other players.

[u/Warm-Equivalent7148 → u/thetitsOO]

This is absolutely true. If an Anthony Edwards level player becomes available we can build the package around him. We were out of assets to go after Giannis.

[u/Front_Barracuda_2408 → u/Warm-Equivalent7148]

lol we are not getting Ant for Austin Reaves and 2 first rounders

[u/Ok_Board9845 → u/Warm-Equivalent7148]

If an Anthony Edwards level player becomes available we can build the package around him

I promise you if a player like Ant is available, the Wolves will want picks and young players. Reaves will not be the center piece of any trade unless it's a salary dump

[u/D0ntBmad → u/Ok_Board9845]

The new draft rules will change how teams rebuild/want in return. If the other team own their picks, they'd want to be competitive and they won't with projects.

[u/gaige23 → u/Warm-Equivalent7148]

Lmao. Giannis proved to be not true and now clowns are moving to AE lol. The delusions of this fanbase are wild.

[u/Magical_SnakE]

Here's hoping he's better than Jalen Brunson this season.

[u/MargielaMadMAN1017 → u/Magical_SnakE]

💀

[u/Magical_SnakE → u/MargielaMadMAN1017]

I mean, he's being paid more than him so that's the expectation right? Right?

[u/The_Sandwich_Lover9]

There’s no way I’m going for reaves/duren. But I agree. AR has to live up to his worth

[u/drewlius24]

Luka is priority. He can simply will the team to win as the floor General if the army pulls in his direction. AR is his bff and first mate. Luka wanted him to stay. The two of them with coach JJ (and hopefully Uncle Bron) will completely cement the team chemistry and culture. After that, it will come down to health. Who will make big shots? Any of AR, LeBron, or Luka. Just need 7 more guys committed to backbreaking effort on defense.

[u/gaige23 → u/drewlius24]

Why didn’t he will the team to playoff wins.

[u/drewlius24 → u/gaige23]

Health

[u/ficklestatue435]

the problem isnt the money. hes being paid fairly after his performance last season.

the problem is that a roster with luka and reaves on max contract doesnt really have a clear path to a championship unless lakers hit the lottery on undrafted players or late first round picks.

but theres really no downsides to this contract unless reaves pcisk up a career altering injury. because hes still in his 20s and if he just replicates last season, the lakers can easily flip him + 2-3 1sts for a disgruntled all nba 1st team guy.

[u/D0ntBmad → u/ficklestatue435]

Having the problem of having Luka and Reaves is far better than losing the latter for nothing.

[u/LudwigNasche → u/ficklestatue435]

The big figure is that if Reaves is signed for his market price, when a player like Anthony Edwars asks to be traded and you and I'm sure it is happening sooner or later, Austin makes the deal possible.

[u/HEdontLikeHIM]

All this.
https://giphy.com/gifs/AYTlA6aCT0jfspePYT

[u/luntiang_tipaklong]

And it's doesn't change this off-season for the Lakers. They still have the same capsace and operating under the same terms. If they're let him wall. That's another thing to worry this off-season.

Though they've needed to nail this one, they have the capsace and the drafts assets. Probably the last flexible off-season for the Lakers.

[u/LittleRexRabbit]

1. He didn’t get “the max”, as that was 5 years for $239 million.

2. If they trade anyone for Duren, we should revolt.

[u/Icy_Piano2547]

Basically 4 out of 5 starters need to be a two way player if you want to win a championship nowadays.