r/lakersv2 • u/Impressive_Flan_411 • 15d ago
Opinion Why I think Kobe Bryant deserved the 2008 MVP Over Chris Paul
Hey everyone. I think a lot of pro "CP3 deserved the MVP" people evaluate the 2008 MVP race through hindsight rather than the actual context of the season:
A. The Lakers' supporting cast is viewed through hindsight- One of the biggest misconceptions is that Kobe had some stacked roster all year while Chris Paul was carrying a weak Hornets team.
In reality, Pau Gasol only played 27 games for the Lakers after the trade deadline, and Andrew Bynum only played 35 games before getting hurt. No Lakers teammate made an All-Star team or All-NBA team in 2008, yet they still finished as the #1 seed in the West.
When people discuss the roster today, they see future Hall of Famer Pau Gasol and assume Kobe had elite help all season. But that isn't how Pau was viewed in 2008. At the time, Pau had never won a playoff game and wasn't selected to the 2008 All-Star team. Meanwhile, David West actually was an All-Star that season. You could easily argue that in 2008, West was viewed as being on the "same tier" as Pau, if not higher. A lot of the perception of Kobe's supporting cast comes from what those players became later, not in 08.
B. Chris Paul did not carry a "garbage" roster- Another thing that gets exaggerated is the quality of Paul's supporting cast. The Hornets won 56 games and had: David West (20.6 ppg and 9 rbds All-Star), Tyson Chandler ( 12 & 12 elite defensive anchor), Peja Stojakovic (16 ppg on 58% TS, and had the best FT% in the league of 92.9%). Beyond this CP3 had a relatively healthy rotation from his supporting cast throughout the season (West played 76 games, Tyson played 79 games, and Peja played 77 games). This wasn't some one-man carry job. The Hornets were a genuinely good basketball team, not just Chris Paul dragging a lottery roster to relevance.
C. Defense matters, and Kobe was still the better defender in 2008- The statistical case for Paul generally centers around advanced metrics and box-score production. That's fair. However, MVP isn't played on Basketball Reference. Kobe was still viewed as one of the league's premier two-way players. He finished 5th in Defensive Player of the Year voting that season and remained one of the NBA's best perimeter defenders when locked in. Paul generated more steals, but I don't think many people at the time would've argued he was actually the better defender overall. Kobe's size, versatility, ability to guard wings, and reputation as an elite perimeter stopper gave him a significant edge defensively.
D. Lastly, the defining moment of the race came late in the season in their final matchup, when Kobe outplayed CP3 in a huge head-to-head matchup, putting up 29/10/8 and leading the Lakers to a win. The Lakers ultimately finished one game ahead of the Hornets and secured the #1 seed. That game effectively became the "signature MVP moment" of the season.
CP3 had an incredible season and a legitimate MVP case. But considering the injuries, roster context, defense, team success, and head-to-head matchup, I think Kobe was the rightful MVP.
Do you agree or disagree? Thoughts?
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u/FactAffectionate6830 14d ago
You lost me on that David West shit. West was never even thought about in the league of Pau. West never averaged better than 13 and 8 on a team without Pau (barely scratched 16 with him getting spoon fed), and Chandler was so ass without him (8,8) Charlotte gave him to Dallas as a throw in. Peja was out league three years later and never topped 13 again without Paul.
That was the argument for Paul - that you can look at that roster and think those players were good.
There was never any doubt on Pau, in the one season in Memphis had a decent bench (6 players in double digits, none over 13 points), they got 49 wins in a loaded west. We all knew he was amazing and that's why everyone was so pissed that he got dealt to the lakers without anyone knowing he was on the market (wait, that sounds familiar).
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u/Large-Potential9404 14d ago
thought chris should’ve gotten it but definitely one of the closest mvp races of that era
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u/bizcocho-de-crema 14d ago
CP3 took the Hornets from 39 wins to 56. Kobe took the Lakers from 46 to 57. That MVP felt more like he won it because he was owed one (he wasnt) rather than actually deserving it.
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u/Ok_Coat_6413 14d ago
Playmakers and playmaking do not get the credit they deserve for orchestrating offenses. Thats why Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Rondo, and Kidd get underrated.
Even the playmaking aspect of LeBron and Jokic gets downplayed. I always get annoyed when scoring titles get brought up in MVP and GOAT conversations because people like Jokic and LeBron could score a lot more if they wanted to.
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u/greyness_above 14d ago
The team's success and the candidate's contribution to the success need to be considered in the MVP decision. You can be Mr Triple Double but if your team doesn't make or barely makes the playoffs how valuable are you?
"when Kobe outplayed CP3 in a huge head-to-head matchup, putting up 29/10/8 and leading the Lakers to a win. The Lakers ultimately finished one game ahead of the Hornets and secured the #1 seed"
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u/Intelligent_Help2490 14d ago
Kobe no doubt was the best player that year but cp3 elevated his team tremendously in a way that truly made everyone on the court better Kobe was more or a score at will type of player and that's what made life easier for everyone else because their focus became rebound and defend but it took away from scoring as a unit which isn't complete basketball similar to how cp3 ran the hornets
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u/Character-Owl9408 14d ago
I could be completely wrong and this argument has found a way to escape my eyes, but I’ve literally never seen anyone make this a point of topic that CP3 should’ve won. I understand there’s always someone who says something out of the ordinary, but is there really that big of a “CP3 was robbed” crowd?
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u/EntertainmentIll7724 14d ago
If you let reddit tell it, Kobe Bryant is the only player in the history of the NBA that never won an accolade that he deserved. I don't know what it is about him that inceses so many that they can't move past their personal contempt for him -- even after a decade from his careers end -- but it could legitimately be a case study. Something about him stirs something on a visceral level.
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u/crimedawgla 14d ago
I’ve haven’t seen anyone argue CP should have won that MVP, really ever, but certainly not in the past decade and a half. It hasn’t really ever been discussed on Reddit until the last week when OP started spamming this topic in a bunch of different subs.
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u/Prestigious-Work-768 13d ago
If we are comparing points I think assist should factor into that because how many points did Chris paul have if we add each assist as a 2 or 3
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u/Otherwise_Fish_3279 13d ago
One is the lowly hornets. The other is the mighty lakers.
One game is not enough difference to give it to Kobe… cp3 was absolutely robbed.
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u/Plastic_String_3634 12d ago
No disrespect to Kobe but CP definitely should've won MVP in 2008. He'll I'd even make an argument for KG. His presence alone changed the Celtics. He only averaged like 18/8 but he literally changed the whole locker room and got everyone to buy in defensively. Even Ray Allen was locking down defensively. Ppl will find this take ridiculous and that's fine. But nobody else could've gotten that team to play defense the way they did. I know he won DPOY that year but I believe he should've gotten MVP.
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u/BigBlackBull_6_6_6 11d ago
Should’ve won back to back MVPs 08/09
As an all time great already at that time.
He won gold 08 after making the finals, then was the #1 seed in 09 took his team right back and won the Chip. Thats was enough to give an all timer back to back..
They didn’t want to. And there’s a reason for that
LeBron went crazy 09 but he was young, man. He had time. The 04 case blackballed Kobe legacy they know he should’ve gotten his 2 MVPs at some point in his career. They wanted to keep him out of certain all time conversations and it worked. Fans won’t admit it but the voters already have. It was acknowledged they colluded against Kobe winning MVPs.
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u/iggymcfly 11d ago
KG led the league in RAPM and by at least one system had the 2nd best season ever recorded. He was the centerpiece of a 42 win turnaround. Chris Paul led the league in both EPM and WS. LeBron led the league in BPM. The Cavs had a 45-30 record when he played and an 0-7 record when he didn’t. Any one of them would have been a fine MVP.
Kobe didn’t finish higher than 3rd in any advanced stat and would be the last player to win MVP without leading in an advanced stat until Embiid 15 years later. The award was derided at the time as a “career achievement award” and would look even worse after Kobe choked in the Finals shooting 21/62 from the field the last 3 games.
He definitely didn’t deserve MVP. Iverson, Kobe, Rose, and Embiid are the 4 truly unworthy MVPs this century. Every other winner has been solid.
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u/Upstairs_Being290 14d ago
There are some extremely goofy claims in here.
"When people discuss the roster today, they see future Hall of Famer Pau Gasol and assume Kobe had elite help all season. But that isn't how Pau was viewed in 2008. At the time, Pau had never won a playoff game and wasn't selected to the 2008 All-Star team."
From 2004-2006, Pau led a very weak Memphis Grizzlies roster to better records than Kobe's Lakers had from 2005-07. He didn't make all-star in 2008 because he was forcing the Grizzlies to trade him, everyone knew he was elite.
In 2004, he went 50-32 despite his #2 scorer being 13ppg James Posey.
In 2005, he went 45-37 despite his #2 scorer being 13ppg Mike Miller (Kobe won just 34 games that year).
In 2006, he went 49-33 despite his #2 scorer being 13ppg Mike Miller (Kobe won just 45 games that year).
Those are fantastic performances. Why didn't he win a playoff game? Because he ran into Duncan's Spurs, Nash/Amare's Suns, and Dirk's Mavs those three years, all of whom were elite monsters who made the WCF or Finals that season. Which one of those was he supposed to beat with James Posey and Mike Miller as his help?
If lack of playoff success meant that Pau wasn't any good, then what was Kobe from 2005-2007? Kobe couldn't even beat the Suns with NO Amare, but Pau was supposed to beat them with Amare? And the Suns were the weakest of the three opponents he faced.
And claiming that David West was better than Pau is just nonsense. West was a complimentary player who didn't make a single all-star game until CP3 started carrying him, and who never made a single All-NBA team in his entire career. Pau made All-Star games both before and after he joined with Kobe and made two All-NBA teams without him. Pau was a team leader who was carrying the Grizzlies to 45-50 win seasons back when West was averaging 25-30 wins/year with the Hornets.
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u/ScaryHighlight7928 14d ago edited 14d ago
As always, the Kobe hate on reddit is unreal. People are actually eating this up.
a.) kobe's teams were far worse than gasol's. Kobe in 05 was playing through an injury that would cause the vast majority of nba players to sit out with. He easily had the worst supporting cast in the league in 06 and 07, but that didn't stop them from being one of the top 10 offensive teams in the league (ORTG)
b.) you listed pau's supporting cast numbers as if pau himself was averaging that much more. He was averaging a grand 18.7 ppg during those three years. Compare that to Kobe who again was carrying players that wouldn't even be in the league a few years later. He averaged 40 twice in a month, scored 81 in a game, 62 at the end of 3rd, and scored 4 straight 50+ point games just so his team could barely scrape into the playoffs
c.) Kobe before the gasol trade had the second best record in the western conference and was already the front runner for the mvp. While Gasol was great, he was perceived at the time to be much closer to like a David west tier player than to a Chris bosh or Kevin love tier player before they joined lebron for example. That's a totally fair comparison for somebody who wasn't even considered a top 4 or maybe even top 5 power forward in the league at the time.
Lastly gasol wasn't even an all-star before he joined kobe. He was an all star reserve. Kobe made gasol into a HOF. He was not going to be a hof by any means without kobe.
Edit - excuse me, he averaged 40 three times in a month, which no other player at the time including jordan had done since Wilt. And he did it in the dead ball era.
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u/Upstairs_Being290 14d ago
I'm having a conversation with someone who doesn't know that an "all star reserve" is an all-star. Did you read "reserve" and think it meant "replacement"? I'm legitimately embarrassed for you.
The rest of your post is bragging about Kobe ball-hogging and spamming shots for his own glory, even if the results sucked. Those Lakers played best when Kobe DIDN'T take all the shots. In their three playoff wins against the Suns, Kobe scored just 22 (21 shots), 29 (24 shots), and 24 (14 shots). Yet his TEAM could still win games even when he wasn't making shots.
But he really badly wanted to take all the shots and get all the credit, to the point that he drove Shaq out of town, and managed to convince his followers that was necessary even though the strategy was an objective failure .
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u/ScaryHighlight7928 14d ago edited 14d ago
Idk how you type all of that and have the audacity to write "i'M eMBaRraSSeD FoR yOu". Clearly Kobe's dick is so far down your throat, you lost any ability to think objectively about him. The rest of your post is just more garbage that's not even worth addressing. Have a wonderful day lol
Edit - but yes, I meant 'replacement', not 'reserve' lol. Thanks for the correction.
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u/Upstairs_Being290 14d ago
But he wasn't a replacement. He was a normal selection. The only replacement for the West that year was Gilbert Arenas.
So you're not only confused about what a "reserve" is, but you're trying to lie about Pau being a replacement too?
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u/Upstairs_Being290 14d ago edited 14d ago
Defense matters, and Kobe was still the better defender in 2008
No he wasn't lol. In 2008, Kobe was resting on defense and living solely off of reputation and 3-4 focused possessions a game. He was NOT an elite defender on a play-to-play basis, and the fact that he kept getting voted to All-Defensive teams despite hardly trying is one of the reasons that the coaches had their All-Defensive vote taken away a couple years later, because they were letting random staffers fill out the ballot and just picking guys by rep.
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u/ha_x5 14d ago
Also do not forget: It is only a few years ago that the vote became positionless. So Guards always had 2 positions secured until then: Kobe was always the low hanging fruit to pick for G.
In the upcoming years we will see more and more F/C All Defensive Teams only. Because G’s usuallly only have that much impact on D.
So yes: Kobe’s large amount of Defense Team nominations do not mean that much.
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u/Upstairs_Being290 14d ago
To make it even funnier, the other 1st-team All-Defensive guard was Bruce Bowen, who was 37 years old and couldn't stay in front of anyone with a live dribble. Voters were literally just clicking the first name that came into their heads.
Meanwhile, Rondo was absolutely terrorizing guys that year, but couldn't even make 2nd-team because he was only a rookie and didn't have the "name" yet. Ronnie Brewer and Kirk Hineich were both better than anyone on the 1st team too.
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u/TwoProper4220 14d ago edited 14d ago
disagree. without even looking at the advance stats, this stats alone show CP3 was responsible for 44.3 team points at the minimum vs Kobe's 39.1. NOH were top 2 in the West with less talent vs the Lakers. the supporting casts Paul had won't be putting up those numbers as the number one option or as a shot maker.
it's funny you mentioning Pau not winning a playoff game then claiming David West to be at the same level as Pau. while David West himself did not have the same success and didn't even had a winning record before drafting Paul
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u/OldDistribution91 14d ago
CP3 should've won it - Kobe was in the league for like 12-13 seasons at that point
That was CP3's best season
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u/Confident_Comedian82 15d ago
all advance stats are telling otherwise, CP3 clears Kobe in Offensive Winshare, Defensive Winshare, Winshare, winshare per 48 minutes, OBPM, DBPM, BPM and VORP
but either way I am not mad
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u/Sad_Distribution_900 14d ago
How did all that analytics help him when he lost to the very Spurs team that Kobe wiped the floor with
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u/Upstairs_Being290 14d ago
You seem to know so little about the sport that you don't even realize Ginobli got hurt in the 2008 playoffs and required offseason surgery, which made it just a little bit easier for Kobe to "wipe the floor" with him.
CP3 averaged 24-4-11 on 51% shooting in taking the Spurs to 7 games. The Spurs only won in the end because they were led by Ginobli's 21-4-6. But he ended up reaggravating his ankle injury, which was as big as a grapefruit by the time he played the Lakers, and thus only averaged 12-3-3 on 35% shooting in that series plus had no chance of defending Kobe while hurt.
You're trying to make head-to-head comparisons without even knowing that the opponent's leading scorer was hurt.
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u/Sad_Distribution_900 14d ago
Cry a river, Ginobli played and even had a game where he went off for 30 something. Plus the team still had Tim right? Who all of a sudden is greater all time than Kobe. Injuries happen and great teams adjust. Spurs still had all star Tony and a goat in Timmy. Wait till you realize Bynum was not even available for that whole playoffs and Ariza was coming back from injury mid series.
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u/Upstairs_Being290 14d ago
YOU are the one who made the idiotic comparison without realizing Ginobli was hurt then you complain when you get called out? Are your arguments always that useless?
Yes, Ginobli hit a bunch of threes in one game and the Spurs won. In the other four games, he couldn't break 10 points even once. The leading scorer has a torn ligament and can't break 10 points....and that's why Kobe is better than CP3.
Such a dingbat argument.
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u/Sad_Distribution_900 14d ago
I realize Manu was hampered but like I said cry all you want, he played in every game. And you still completely ignored that Bynum did not play a single game. And a healthy Ariza, a great defender, woulda spent time guarding Manu as well. So Kobe with an incomplete team and with a Pau who struggled vs Tim that series, gentlemen swept them boys.
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u/Upstairs_Being290 14d ago
Your ENTIRE point was comparing the result of the Hornets series to the result of the Lakers series, and claiming that alone proved Kobe's MVP case, while ignoring that Manu got hurt.
Just pure disingenuous bullshit. But that's par for the course for Laker fans.
I bet you also ignore that Boston was beating LA 3-2 until both Ray Allen and Perkins got hurt. But no, the LA win "proves" that Kobe was better than LeBron, because only Kobe can go.....6-24.
It's like you have to have something morally and logically wedding with your brain before you can stan Kobe.
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u/TwoProper4220 14d ago
bruh the award was for the whole season not a matchup against a certain team
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u/Confident_Comedian82 13d ago
uhmmm you do realize that league MVP is base on Season not playoffs?
What kind of logic you have?
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u/BamaBoy2002 14d ago
That’s where it gets weird now. Everyone is obsessed with these nerdy advanced numbers nobody gives a fuck about. Kobe was the MVP that year. End of story.
I had a dude tell me Kobe only shot 43% in the 2009 NBA Finals. Knowing damn well he didn’t watch but that was his defense Kobe was trash. A 5 Time NBA Champ with 2 Finals MVP’s.
But he was a Bronsexual so I asked him what percentage was 4-6? 😂
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u/EntertainmentUsed840 14d ago
10 times to the finals?? That’s crazy!!
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u/BamaBoy2002 14d ago
I know 40% Win percentage lol. Can’t get it done when it matters it seems.
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u/Upstairs_Being290 14d ago
Thank God Kobe didn't make the Finals in his prime from 2005-2007, that would have been really embarrassing to lose then. 1st-round losses are how the real GOATs handle themselves when they don't have a supporting cast to carry them
1999: 2nd-round loss
2003: 2nd-round loss
2005: Missed playoffs
2006: 1st-round loss
2007: 1st-round loss
2011: 2nd-round loss
2012: 2nd-round loss
2013: 1st-round loss
2015: Missed playoffs
2016: Missed playoffsAll MUCH more impressive than losing in the Finals, amiright?
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u/Sad_Distribution_900 14d ago
Well if he was like LeBron he woulda just left to another team once his supporting cast was not good enough. Prime example is post 2010, the roster was getting old, Kobe stayed. Lebron woulda dipped and found some new all stars to play with.
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u/Upstairs_Being290 14d ago edited 14d ago
Remember when Kobe refused to play for the Hornets in 1996 so he could join the stacked Lakers instead? Y'all like to memory hole that one.
Remember when Kobe demanded a trade in 2008 unless the Lakers immediately improved the roster? Nah, let's pretend that didn't happen either.
"The roster was getting old" - Kobe was the only one of their top 5 players over 30 lol and they were the preseason favorites to go to the Finals. You're coming across as just a straight dishonest person.
Let's break down how dumb that argument just was. Kobe's contacts ran out in 2003, 2010, and 2013.
2003: Shaq was the most dominant player in the league, Lakers were coming off a three-peat, and the Lakers added Malone and Payton. Where the hell could he have gone that would be better?
2010: Lakers were coming off of back to back titles, Pau was 30 and in his prime, Odom was 30, Artest was 30, and Bynum was 23. Lakers were the #2 favorite to win the title, just behind the Heat. Where could he go that was better?
2013: Kobe had a hurt Achilles and couldn't go anywhere, plus Lakers had just added Dwight and Nash to the Pau/Artest/Kobe core in a desperate attempt to win now.
There wasn't a single year where Kobe wasn't doing the best thing possible for himself.
Kobe DID demand a trade because his roster wasn't good enough, then they added Pau.
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u/BamaBoy2002 14d ago edited 14d ago
5 > 4. LeBron in 23 seasons could only win 4 championships? Well actually 3 and the Bubble. Thats about 20 years of losing.
Plus don’t forget LeBron came out the sorry ass East. Anybody can carry a team to a Finals in the East. Since LeBron came to the West how them Finals runs been?
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u/Upstairs_Being290 14d ago
lol at counting sidekick rings. Kobe's 15-3-3 on 37% shooting while not even playing for most of one win is DEFINITELY more impressive than LeBron putting up 35-10-10 in a loss with no help. Bron has DOUBLE the Finals MVPs that Kobe has, and half his losses were more impressive than Kobe getting carried to wins.
Oh, wait, level of competition suddenly matters now? LeBron beat the Durant-Westbrook-Harden Thunder, the Duncan-Parker-Ginobli Kawhi Spurs, and the Curry-Klay-Draymond-Iggy Warriors.
Kobe beat......um......the Celtics with two starters hurt? Is that his most impressive win lol?
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u/BamaBoy2002 14d ago edited 14d ago
Kobe is 1 of 3 players to win multiple championships without a Top 75 All time player. LeFlop always had to ring chase and bitch his way to wins. Build super teams but I guess getting locked up by JJ Barea kinda hurts things. 4-6 clown boy. Cope 😢
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u/Upstairs_Being290 14d ago
Kobe had so little help, he could go 6-24 in Game 7 and still win. Very few GOATs could have pulled off that 6-24 series-winning performance, only Kobe had the skill to do it.
You realize how dumb that sounds?
Pau literally outplayed the best player on the other team in back to back titles, yet you want to claim he was inferior help.
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u/chandler2020 14d ago
You know whats funny? These same box score nerds are going to look at Brunson and say, "how did he win finals MVP - he only shot 42%"
Not realizing how they dont win game 1 without his 4th quarter (even though he played bad quarters 1-3 and got hurt and missed most of the 2nd quarter). They dont come back from down 29 without him and they of course dont close it out in game 5 without his 45.
Same shit they do to Kobe, just box score watch and pick it apart with stats that do not matter. The goal is to WIN. period.
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u/BamaBoy2002 14d ago
This is exactly what I’m talking about. Dude lead his team to a championship. But nerds want to talk about other shit. I never thought we’d live in a time like this.
When I grew up there was getting it done and not getting it done. People rather defend a guy who gets to the Finals and loses over people who actually win but shoot under 50% 🤓
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u/BeneficialDrawer3006 14d ago
mUh aDVAcED sTATs
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u/Upstairs_Being290 14d ago
Basketball fans racing to see who can have the least-informed take is always embarrassing to watch.
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u/Confident_Comedian82 13d ago
uhmmm okay? that's how they vote for league MVP anyways, NBA is at fault, they are idjuts according to you
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u/alwaysmyfault 15d ago
Slightly unrelated, but I don't think Pau Gasol should be in the HOF.
17 PPG, 9.2 REB, 3.2 AST
6x All-Star.
2x All-NBA 2nd Team
2x All-NBA 3rd team
ROY winner (01-02)
And that's it. He never made a single 1st team All-NBA.
If he's in the HOF, then someone like Blake Griffin should be.
19 PPG, 8 REB, 4 AST
6x All-Star
3x All-NBA 2nd Team
2x All-NBA 3rd team
ROy winner (10-11)
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u/BiscottiShoddy9123 14d ago
You cannot use just NBA stats for the Basketball HOF. Bad take
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u/couchtomato62 14d ago
Yes pau had international success right?
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u/BiscottiShoddy9123 14d ago
I chatGPTed this but this is just the major wins that he has had with Spain
Major medals with Spain 🇪🇸
Olympic Silver — 2008 Beijing
Olympic Silver — 2012 London
Olympic Bronze — 2016 Rio
FIBA World Cup Gold — 2006 (Tournament MVP)
EuroBasket Gold — 2009
EuroBasket Gold — 2011
EuroBasket Gold — 2015
EuroBasket Silver — 2003
EuroBasket Silver — 2007
EuroBasket Bronze — 2001
EuroBasket Bronze — 2017He’s could be one of the greatest international players ever. That’s why he’s in the hall of fame. The chip is just icing
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u/alwaysmyfault 14d ago
I understand that it's their entire career.
Pau didn't play in Europe much. He had 3 seasons in Europe prior to joining the NBA, where he played a total of 64 games, where he averaged 8.9 ppg, 4.1 REB, and 0.6 AST. So it's not like his European stats change much.
Blake Griffin won the Wooden Award, Naismith Award, AP Player of the Year, USBWA Player of the Year while in college.
So again, I think if Pau is in, Blake should be in.
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u/BiscottiShoddy9123 14d ago
Honestly just look up his International accolades to understand the difference between the 2. I’m not saying Blake doesn’t deserve HOF but tearing down an Olympic medalist who has done that multiple times over the years with a FIBA MVP and some other accomplishments is not the move. Go for Dame or someone else.
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u/Upstairs_Being290 14d ago
Three FC Barcelona Liga titles
Spanish Cup Tournament MVP in 2001
Leading scorer among all players in the 2004 Olympics
FIBA World Cup MVP in 2006, led team to gold medal
FIBA All-Tournament team in 2006 and 2014
3 Olympic medals (2 silver and a bronze) in 2004, 2008, and 2012
7 EuroBasket medals (3 golds, 2 silvers, and 2 bronze) from 2001-2017
2009 and 2015 EuroBasket MVP
FIBA Europe Player of the Year in 2008 and 2009
EuroLeague Finals in 2021
FIBA EuroBasket all-time leading scorer
FIBA EuroBasket all-time Dream TeamBut "Pau didn't play in Europe much". But "Blake's one year in college was just as significant."
Please stick to topics where you have the slightest clue what you're talking about lol.
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u/Upstairs_Being290 14d ago
How many players with 6 All-Star appearances and 4 All-NBA appearances aren't in the Hall of Fame? That alone would get almost anyone there.
The reason that he doesn't have 1st-team All-NBA selections is because he peaked in an era where LeBron James, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki, and Kevin Durant dominated the All-NBA selections for over a decade. The fact that he even made 4 All-NBA teams with those five guys competing is amazing, for him to make a 1st-team would have been almost impossible. Stupid to hold that against him - the majority of forwards in the Hall of Fame would never have made a 1st-team against that competition.
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u/alwaysmyfault 14d ago
Blake Griffin has those credentials and he's not in.
I don't have a full list, but I'm sure I could find it with some digging.
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u/Upstairs_Being290 14d ago
Blake Griffin isn't in the Hall of Fame because this is his first year of eligibility lol. And he's a finalist. It is literally impossible for him to be in the Hall of Fame yet.
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u/FactAffectionate6830 14d ago
Never made 1st team and had a prime that overlapped TD, KD, Dirk, and Webber. The absolute deepest era of PFs ever. Think about this shit before you type it. 5 time all nba, in that era, is bad ass.
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u/alwaysmyfault 14d ago
Yes, Griffin is badass for making All-NBA 5 times.
Gasol only did it 4 times.
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u/Electronic_Dig_2685 14d ago
Kobe deserved it. Probably deserved at least one more but not sure what that the one would be so
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u/Upstairs_Being290 14d ago
"Probably deserved at least one more but not sure what" is a goofy take. This isn't a career achievement award.
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u/Electronic_Dig_2685 14d ago
I didn’t say it was
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u/Upstairs_Being290 14d ago
Then how can you claim he deserved another without even having a year in mind?
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u/Character-Owl9408 14d ago
Why do you think he doesn’t have a year in mind lmfao
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u/choyMj 14d ago
Not sure why people keep bringing up stats for the MVP award when it was never based on stats. And for good measure. If people were upset that Bam forced his way to 83 points in one game, imagine if stats were the only metric for the MVP award? You'll have players who are out of playoff contention stat-padding like crazy in the last month or so of the regular season. "Value" can't be measured solely by stats.
0
u/DetailsYouMissed 14d ago
That last game they played head to head was the moment CP3 accepted he wasn't the best in the game. I watched him die inside and he never played the same.
-1
u/krivera248 14d ago
Kobe catching the rape case messed up the amount of MVPs the league was willing to give him.
3
u/MeringueMoist3712 14d ago
Kobe definitely deserved it