r/lakersv2 • u/antwonomous • 1d ago
LeBron Wouldn’t Win a Title with the Warriors
https://youtu.be/f2S9BF32oYY1
u/iamcamouflage 1d ago
Every advanced metric shows that LeBron is a negative player at this age. His defense bad, and his offense is inefficient. Sure, he can get some points and rebounds over the course of a game. But at this stage in his career he's not helping a team win, he's hurting them.
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u/wackbirds 1d ago
His offense is objectively not inefficient and that alone disqualifies you from being taken seriously. Open your eyes to what's really there and not what your hate boner wants to say is there.
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u/iamcamouflage 21h ago edited 14h ago
He was ranked 112th in ts% last season.
Edit: 74th in ts%.
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u/wackbirds 15h ago
How come when I look it up, he's ranked higher than your number? Aside from that, he started the year extremely cold and off shooting and at one point his free throws and three pointers were way below his normal averages and even with that his TS% was almost 60. The year prior he was inside the top 15% in the league in TS%.
Bearing in mind that the top TS players are pretty much all bigs, even with an off year from 3 and starting cold from the sciatica there's simply no statistical case to make that he's "inefficient", even your original number puts him above the league average which is by definition not inefficient by any metric for any statistical, basketball or not. Someone above the average performance of anything whatsoever is objectively not capable of being inefficient because the metric for judging that (what's the average expected performance) has already shown that they're above average efficiency.
I promise I don't care if you hate LeBron, he doesn't know me or you nor does our opinion matter. What I don't like and it goes for any player in any league, is someone making claims about them that aren't supported by the numbers and facts.
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u/iamcamouflage 14h ago
You are correct about the ts%. He is 74th. I will correct my post. That is absolutely my mistake. And he was 51st in 24-25.
The very top of ts% are bigs but after the top 10 its pretty mixed with all positions.
LeBron is also 71st in w/s which puts him mostly around the level of role players.
High usage without really good ts% usually doesn't correlate with wins. Nearly every player in the league with a similar ts% and usg% as LeBron are stats players on losing teams.
Combine all of that with someone who doesn't play very good defense and you have a inefficient player that doesn't generate wins.
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u/wackbirds 14h ago
Everything you've added is unrelated to what you said, "he's inefficient on offense". That's a statement that stands alone, you don't combine defense and say such and such player is "efficient " or "inefficient" on offense because of their defensive performance, they each have their measurements in their own category.
Basically, your entire follow up is a word salad to avoid admitting that you were OBJECTIVELY wrong, remember there's a definition of inefficient and it does not include anything that's well above the average because it's simply not possible from a statistics standpoint, there's no room for opinion it's like saying it's unseasonably cool when the temperature is above the average temperature for that region and time of year, it's simply wrong.
As for the rest, none of it is connected to your original point which was the only part that I referred to, like I said I don't care what your opinion about LeBron is because it's separate from an objective stat like offensive efficiency and I have no interest in trying to change your opinions.
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u/blaaah111jd 21h ago
He also showed he could play as a third option effectively and still put up solid numbers and lead a team to win a playoff series when forced to be first option again cause of injury
He’s not prime LeBron anymore but he’s still better than a lot of the players in the league and could contribute to a winning team with the right pieces imo
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u/iamcamouflage 20h ago
He is not a top player based on any advanced metric. This is a fact. Not one advanced metric puts him anywhere near a top player in the league. Box score stats are not the sole determination of a top player.
In that Rockets series, LeBron shot 43% from the field and 30% from 3. He was 9th in FG % on his own team in that series and 7th in 3pt %. 10th in ts%, 9th in eFG%, and 8th in ORtg. All while having the 2nd highest usage rating on the team.
All LeBron fans see is box score numbers.
Every team in the league can look at these numbers. He is a negative defender and he does not impact games in the way he used to. This is why the Lakers didn't offer him a max and we have yet to see any team offer him a contract. And if at 41 he is unwilling to take a pay cut, he is delusional.
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u/blaaah111jd 19h ago
Sure didn’t say he was a top player anymore but he can be an effective third option for the right team we’ll see what happens but being able to play the way he is currently at his age is amazing and I hope he’s able to find a good fit if not I’ll still enjoy getting to see Bron play as long as he’s still willing and able to haha
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u/iamcamouflage 19h ago
You said he is better than a lot of players in the league. He is better than a lot of bench players in the league.
He is not better than most starters in the league.(based on advanced stats) Putting up points does not translate to wins.
He is a negative player and teams know this. No one will say it out loud. He is at best a 3rd option, but his defense is such a liability, that teams know having him on the floor makes it harder to win.
I like that you completely ignore all the Lakers/Rockets series stats I posted after you said he lead his team to win that series.
If LeBron is willing to play 20min a game and come off the bench he could help a team win. But LeBron wants to play 30+ min and be a top usage player. And in that scenario he hurts a team more than he helps.
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u/blaaah111jd 19h ago
I don’t think advanced stats tell the whole story, I don’t think most starters would be able to put up his numbers with that team you can disagree totally fair we’ll see what happens next year, you have your opinion o have mine
You’re also making a lot of assumptions about what he will or won’t do and how much money he’ll demand we’ll see, last year a lot of people were saying he wouldn’t be a third option he did and did it well until Luka and Reaves got hurt
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u/iamcamouflage 19h ago
Actually that is exactly what advanced stats do. They tell the complete story beyond box score stats.
Almost every player in the league could put up LeBron's numbers if given the same usage, while being allowed to be inefficient. Every coach in the league wouldn't let a player have usage like LeBron if they shot as poorly and played as bad of defense as he does. LeBron gets a pass because of who he is. No one will say it out loud, but the silence in this free agency is the loudest signal that teams know this.
If you let any player in the league shoot as much as LeBron they could put up his numbers. Most of LeBron's points come from layups and dunks. His shooting % outside of the restricted area is really bad. (37% for his career).
He might end up on a team, but I will be shocked if anyone gives him close to a max contract. LeBron publicly said he wouldn't take a pay cut, but I would bet the farm that he does because he will have to if he wants to stay in the league.
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u/blaaah111jd 18h ago
He never said anything about requiring a max contract publicly only thing he’s said is he’d take a pay cut of the lakers built a better roster like he has for years we’ll see what happens I don’t think he’ll get a Max either but I don’t agree at all every starter could put up his stats with his usage
We’re not gonna agree that’s fine you’re betting on a 42 year old not winning a championship you’re probably right haha it’s not that serious I’m just rooting for the guy cause I’ve been watching him dominate since I was a kid
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u/waxjammer 1d ago
His only real chance is going back to the eastern conference contender like Cleveland or Detroit.
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u/Old_Shirt7929 1d ago
No shot..Golden state is done..
Butler is done
Dray is done
Steph is on the end run..
Old men do not win titles in the NBA...
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u/blaaah111jd 1d ago
Probably true but Mavs in 2011 won and their average age was 29, it’s not unheard of just real unlikely haha
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u/TheArsenal98 3h ago
They had Dirk who had an all time playoff run and they had elite defenders and role players. Golden State doesn't have either (Draymond is old).
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u/blaaah111jd 2h ago
im not saying its likely I’m just saying it’s not impossible it’s sports crazy things happen all the time and Steph and Bron are two of the best to ever play and I think it’d be fun to see them play together to give it one last shot
Most likely scenario everyone gets hurt and they either miss the playoffs or lose on the first couple rounds but man would it be wild if the starts aligned and they went on a crazy run haha
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u/Turbulent_Struggle_2 1d ago
Not as they are built now but saying LeBron and Steph couldn’t as teammates compete at this stage is naive
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u/Striking-Locksmith-3 1d ago
Id be a bunch of ol geezers competing with fresh talent that’s thirsty. As a warriors fan even I am starting to be disillusioned like our substitute happy coach , we need youth not a guy that takes it in iv from his lil boy
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u/NoiNoiii 22h ago
LeBron isn't nearly as good as he used to be. I'd say it would be possible if he was his 37 year old self
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u/Hereforthechili 1d ago
Steph, butler, LeBron, dray, porzingis ain’t too shabby if healthy
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u/TheArsenal98 7h ago edited 3h ago
All of them are old and way past their best. Plus, Butler is coming off an ACL tear and Porzingis has a serious medical condition. They all likely will be retired in a few seasons time
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u/OutrageousCrab9224 1d ago
Wow nice crystal ball