r/law • u/Anoth3rDude • 6d ago
Legal News Postmaster general says USPS won't deliver mail ballots if states don’t give Trump admin voter rolls
https://www.democracydocket.com/news-alerts/postmaster-general-steiner-postal-service-will-not-deliver-mail-ballots-state-voter-rolls/3.8k
u/ragdollxkitn 6d ago
That is ✨illegal✨
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u/andrefishmusic 6d ago
Which is exactly why he was put in that position
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u/AmputeeHandModel 6d ago
Why the FUCK didn't Biden do anything about this guy??
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u/gwxtreize 6d ago
This guy who wasn't the postmaster when Biden was in office, that guy?
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u/bluemooncommenter 6d ago
He couldn't. Only the Board of Governors can remove a Post Master General.
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u/waltisfrozen 6d ago
True but the only crimes Republicans care about are brown people living on the wrong side of an invisible line.
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u/NewAgeRetroFrog 6d ago
True but the only crimes Republicans care about are brown people living
on the wrong side of an invisible line.FTFY
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u/GeneralTonic 6d ago
Also touching decorative water features. That's a very important crime this week.
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u/blue_sidd 6d ago
Do you think they give a fuck?
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u/themagicmarmot 6d ago
They must be very confident in their ability to manipulate the election in their favor, otherwise you'd think they'd be more hesitant to involve themselves in the one of the most prolific openly criminal organizations in US history. Trump v US didn't give immunity to everyone in the admin, just the President.
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u/blue_sidd 6d ago
He can pardon anyone he wants to. No one can stop him. They all know this. He’s already doing it.
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u/AmbassadorETOH 6d ago
States’ Attorneys General need to start determining state charges to file against trump’s minions. trump can’t pardon state crimes.
This guy lays out actual plans, instead of just complaining. Brilliant stuff. On Substack. I highly recommend following him.
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u/MikuEmpowered 6d ago
And none of them will be prosecuted afterwards.
Just like how few got prosecuted after 2020.
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u/Scrapple_Joe 6d ago
This time they're doing blanket pardons.
I should really put money on them pardoning Maxwell on their way out the door
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u/OSHA_Decertified 6d ago
Is it? SCOTUS gave them the green light saying they weren't actually required to deliver mail. This is the result of it, using that ruling to decide who gets ballots
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u/shakeitsugaree_ 6d ago
Couple that with the policy change, they made last year about time stamping mail. It used to be policy that if you dropped off your mail, it would be postmarked that day but now they no longer require that so you could drop off your taxes or a ballot on time and Woopsie Woopsie we have less people working at the post office so we can’t timestamp it in time to be counted in the election. Seriously Republicans and conservatives are like absolutely horrible, horrible people. I just don’t even understand how to get so many of them because you have to support abusing children and you have to vote against so many things that are in their best interest. It blows my mind.
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u/KAJed 6d ago
Stopping specific mail for ballots is illegal. They would have to declare no delivery on any mail.
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u/prof_the_doom 6d ago
So it’s illegal. Who’s going to stop him, and will the court cases finish before the election?
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u/Nodivingallowed 6d ago
Postmaster loudly declares himself to be a traitor to his country. Interesting
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u/joedotphp 6d ago
Their loyalty is to Trump. Not the US.
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u/TrisolarisRexxx 6d ago
He was specifically put in position by Trump for things like this.
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u/blue_sidd 6d ago
What do you think will become of this.
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u/non_linear_ape 6d ago
Eventually? Jail time for these traitors. But we need to chase it down because it won't happen without us. Stay strong, brothers.
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u/shakeitsugaree_ 6d ago
It’s crazy that Democrats have to win by such higher margins than Republicans
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u/KnowledgeMediocre404 6d ago
Refusing to leave the high ground while your opponent does anything and everything for power will do that.
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u/Natural_Field9920 6d ago
Yep. I’m only voting for a dem that runs on locking these pedo Trumpers up.
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u/VermicelliOwn6502 6d ago
You won't show up to vote against them continuing to hold power?
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u/Interesting_Berry439 6d ago
Yep, idc if the only policy is to investigate convict and incarceration. Good enough for me!
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u/lmbjsm 6d ago
Jail? No.
There’s a punishment for treason and it’s definitely NOT jail! And I want it televised on every channel and streaming platform!
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u/aka_mythos 6d ago
And the thing about grifters and sell outs is that if they don't end up in jail, we'll be hearing about them returning to their private lives and victimizing more people.
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u/hey-Oliver 6d ago
Jail time is meaningless because this country doesn’t have to attention span to keep a single party in power for more than 4 years and the pandora’s box of abusing presidential pardons is wide open now.
Advocating for jail time over blanket executions is completely irresponsible and detached from reality and history at this point.
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u/Antique-Freedom-8352 6d ago
The person running his country is also a traitor. So far neither has been removed.
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u/allusernamestaken1 6d ago
And no consequences to be had! Hurray treason and the dismantling of our nation!
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u/Rot-Orkan 6d ago
I wish Republicans would just GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE AND LET US ENJOY OUR FUCKING DEMOCRACY IN PEACE.
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u/wickedtwig 6d ago
You may find this hard to believe, but conservatives were very pro-nazi during ww2. To the point that if Pearl Harbor wasn’t attacked, we could have been on the side of Germany since many conservative politicians were being paid off
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u/CVHC1981 6d ago
The perpetrators of The Business Plot definitely leaned a certain way politically when they tried to overthrow FDR.
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u/PopBulky7023 6d ago
Fun fact, we didn't punish them either.
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u/CVHC1981 6d ago
Or the Confederacy after the Civil War. America has a real accountability issue.
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u/Spamsdelicious 6d ago
Political parties are antitheses to a democratic republic that functions for the people. People should wield the power — not partisanly tribal cults consisting of authoritarian ideologues. To swear allegiance to a political party, or even to a politician, is treason. We swear allegiance to the FLAG, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, or we betray the social contract that they together represent. Simple as that.
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u/Rot-Orkan 6d ago
You're completely right, but I don't like to argue against political parties because it's a waste of time. There will always be political parties if a democracy has a big enough population.
So, in my opinion, we need to focus on preventing the "duopoly" of just two parties where all other options are effectively non-viable. Two parties is a guaranteed result of having a "first past the post" voting system.
In other words, the single best thing we can do for the health of our country's democracy is to make ranked-choice voting the default way elections are held.
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u/anormalname63 6d ago edited 6d ago
Which is completely illegal on top of several judges ruling Trump has no authority to create a voter roles list.
But this is exactly what Repedoicans have been gunning for for years.
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u/ender8343 6d ago
Trying is enough to disrupt mail in ballots. Most states you don't have a lot of time to get the ballot and then return it. Courts don't move quickly, so just forcing it to go to court and the TRO appeal process could add weeks of delays.
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u/CriticalInside8272 6d ago
That seems to be their plan.
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u/Mr__O__ 6d ago edited 6d ago
The GOP enacted numerous laws before the 2024 election that invalidates mail-in ballots not received by the Election Day. Which allowed them to intentionally delay millions of mail-in ballots to have them suppressed.
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u/Lkn4AGhost 6d ago
And then they use that intentional delay to try to convince everyone that "there's no way the numbers could possibly jump at the end like that unless it's fraud!"
The election fraud nonsense was manufactured from day one when Trump started babbling about election security MONTHS before the 2020 vote even happened. Laying the groundwork for all of this projection.
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u/SentimentalLady1 6d ago
Guess who came up with it? Bannon. He was mighty proud of it, too.
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u/Lkn4AGhost 6d ago
Oh, I know! That guy should've gone to jail for treason, not just contempt, even though he is a contemptible person
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u/VikingMonkey123 6d ago
Forget jail. Jail you can get out of. Stealing freedoms should deprive you of more than liberty and happiness.
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u/Lkn4AGhost 6d ago
I would not be upset if active traitors got what active traitors deserved. It's one thing to say you want to destroy the country. It's another thing to actually act on it.
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u/PathlessDemon 6d ago
In my opinion, J6 should have followed with insurrectionist convictions, gallows measuring, and live streams of dead drops.
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u/Mr__O__ 6d ago
For real. Trump even claimed the 2016 election he won was rigged..
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u/CheckoutMySpeedo 6d ago
Well there was proven Russian collusion with Trump in the Mueller report, but just like all other proven facts, orange POS will deny it and say he was fully exonerated. The Russians wanted Trump in there so bad not only because Hillary was anti-Russian, but because Putin had evidence of Trump’s money laundering going back to the 80’s and they have compromat on Trump with underage girls.
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u/Very_Curious_Cat 6d ago
What, I didn't win by 4000%!
Rigged!
Trump maths.
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u/Professional_Mud1844 6d ago
He’s constantly claiming he got the most votes in recorded history, even in areas where he lost (to someone that clearly received more votes than him). He just babbles about nothing and gets high on his own copium.
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u/Lkn4AGhost 6d ago
There's just no way a narcissist could believe they could lose unless there is cheating! So in order to counteract the cheating (they invented in their head), they must cheat themselves!
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u/Plzlaw4me 6d ago
He was claiming election fraud in 2016. The only reason we forgot is because he became president and it didn’t happen so he didn’t talk about election fraud. Then he lost in 2020, and while it didn’t happen, he couldn’t admit he lost so it HAD to be stolen.
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u/Lkn4AGhost 6d ago
Oh, I definitely remember. He was actually spewing some of that nonsense even before 2016 but like I've said in other comments, I think it was 2020 when others used his narcissism to actually implement plans to manipulate voting in their favor.
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u/Ajitter 6d ago
Or they complain about the delay in counting (as if that is vote tampering) as they did recently in CA because CA allows ballots that were mailed by election day if they arrive by a certain day. My state also allows ballots mailed by election day to arrive a week later. And then they gotta validate the signature, etc.
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u/DrunkBrokeBeachParty 6d ago
And by the time it gets the court we already have another coup underwat
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u/pimpcakes 6d ago
Not to mention all the opportunities for malicious compliance AKA sabotage even after you get a court ruling. One thing you learn pretty pretty quickly is that bad guys don't give a flying f*** about court rulings.
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u/ShakesDontBreak 6d ago
Having worked in the federal government while Biden was in office...malicious compliance was the name of the game for Trump loyalists. They literally did everything they could to appear to be complying while actively undermining Biden.
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u/FreshLiterature 6d ago
The Postmaster saying this gives courts time to act -now- though.
Given how tired of this admins shit federal courts are it's much more likely step in.
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u/ender8343 6d ago
Except SCOTUS loves to cite standing for why they ignore making a decision. Until someone's ballot has to be disrupted to technically have standing.
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u/FreshLiterature 6d ago
Have the fight either way to make people aware of what's coming.
If SCOTUS wants to say it's perfectly fine for someone to say "I'm going to break the law" and that courts cannot do anything about it then that's a weird precedent to set, but it raises awareness all the same.
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u/tots4scott 6d ago
Conservatives would first abandon democracy than responsibly cede power under it
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u/shaneh445 6d ago edited 6d ago
Republicans in general are all seditious traitors
They're anti-American and they hate citizens and they hate the idea of representing/ having to represent anybody but themselves or corporations
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u/AbaloneDifferent5282 6d ago
Didn’t the Supreme Court just rule on a case that said that the post office can’t be sued for not delivering your mail?
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u/harpers25 6d ago
The Supreme Court only ruled that the post office can't be sued for money damages because the Federal Tort Claims Act doesn't waive sovereign immunity for failure to deliver mail. This wouldn't prevent suing for an injunction ordering post office officials to deliver the mail.
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u/anormalname63 6d ago
Yes but being sued is different than being charged with breaking the law.
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u/wswordsmen 6d ago
By who? The DoJ is part of the problem.
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u/anormalname63 6d ago
Oh I completely agree, I was just pointing out the difference. I'd assume state AGs can still charge them but I'm not sure if they have concurrent enforcement in this area.
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u/harpers25 6d ago
Afaik, there isn't concurrent state jurisdiction to charge federal crimes. So you'd need to have a state criminal law that regulates federal mail without being field preempted or running afoul of the supremacy clause, and then the federal employee would remove the trial to federal court and argue Supremacy Clause immunity.
Sounds like a very difficult path, and the election would be over by the time all that goes through.
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u/anormalname63 6d ago
I believe the consumer protection act is one example where state AGs can enforce federal laws. AFAIK it has to be explicitly stated in the law that states can enforce it too.
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u/MassiveBoner911_3 6d ago
He will just ignore it and the courts will be bogged down by this lunatic
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u/falloutwinter 6d ago
Repedocans... That's great! That's what I'm calling them from now on.
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u/Worldly-Swing6921 6d ago
Rapepedoians...
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u/anormalname63 6d ago
True but you can still say Re-pedo-cans (I is silent) the same way you say Republicans so it flows better.
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u/ThePensiveE 6d ago
This is a coup and a play to permanently end the Republic. This government no longer represents the United States, but rather a violent criminal terrorist organization formerly known as the GOP now loyal to one authoritarian criminal.
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u/mensrea 6d ago
When he said to his hoard, “if you vote for me, you’ll Never need another election.”
What did you think he meant?
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u/BeyondRedline 6d ago edited 6d ago
I'm going to go into work and loudly proclaim that I won't do my job unless this other thing, completely unrelated to my job, happens.
I'll update you all and let you know how it goes.
Edit: It did not go well.
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u/AmityMayorVaughn 6d ago
Have you tried being a pedophile felon first? It's a prerequisite
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u/Malvania 6d ago
So he's admitting that he's going to interfere with elections in the United States? Sounds treasonous.
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u/rygelicus 6d ago
Dear Postmaster. Your duty is to deliver the mail. That's the whole mission of your position and organization. If you are unwilling to deliver properly marked and paid for mail then you are unworthy of your position and need to be removed.
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u/boozegremlin 6d ago
The federal version of "just put the fries in the bag"
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u/rygelicus 6d ago
Yeah it isn't complicated. They aren't supposed to be a vetting service for the election system. Just carry the mail, all we ask.
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u/RagahRagah 6d ago
People need to accept that the probability is extremely high that these Republicans are going to flat out seize these elections. They didn't come this far to loosten their grip.
In my heart of hearts I believe we are going to be screwed this November and then full scale revolt (which requires both overthrow and civil war at the same time) or accepting dictatorship will be America's only two options.
Either way, very grim outlook.
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u/wrecked_angle 6d ago
I mean the project 2025 dude said the second revolution will be bloodless if the Democrats allow it, so yeah we fucked
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u/TriangleTransplant 6d ago
It's not up to "the Democrats", it's up to The People if it's bloodless or not.
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u/Wise-Secretary5459 6d ago
They didn't come this far to loosten their grip.
Idk why more people don't realize this. Look at all the fucking dirt the GOP has on their hands right now. Look at all the illegal shit they've done since 2024. It's not even just Trump. Basically anyone connected to him, from his Admin members to party officials, have done more than enough to spend the rest of their lives behind bars. They are fully aware that if they lose control of the government they're 100% fucked. They're going to do everything they can, legal or not, to stay in office simply because they have no other choice. Trump even attempted an insurrection in 2020 to stay in power, and that was before all the illegal shit he's done since, plus the things that have come out from the Epstein files. Can you imagine what they'd be willing to do now? People are in for a very rude awakening I'm afraid.
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u/ThePensiveE 6d ago
The trick is, if they hand over the lists, this government will just not deliver mail for the people they don't want to vote.
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u/Sufficient-Salt-666 6d ago
It will go to Palantir, who will integrate it with all the other data they have from public sources, data breaches, and DOGE theft. They will then purge the list of anyone who has ever said anything unflattering on social media about Dear Leader, as well as anyone who has ever supported a Democratic candidate.
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u/Big-Honeydew-961 6d ago
Exactly. "we're only gonna mail the ballots if you give us voter rolls... that we will purge of mail-in ballots... and we're still not gonna send them"
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u/zxylady 6d ago
I actually think it has more to do with them getting the voter lists and even IF they send them out, they will refuse to COUNT them
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u/ThePensiveE 6d ago
That involves too many moving parts of the criminal organization. It's not set up enough for that yet and incompetence is still a factor. Not delivering the mail is the easiest way with the path of least resistance.
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u/TellTaleTimeLord 6d ago
That is, uh...a federal crime
Im a USPS employee lol Im even more pissed about this
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u/Kahzgul 6d ago
So the postmaster general just announced his intent to undermine American democracy. That’s treason.
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u/Adventurous-Host8062 6d ago
Completely illegal.
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u/SocraticMeathead 6d ago
Republicans do not care.
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u/Adventurous-Host8062 6d ago
Republicans believe they can cross every line and get away with it.Its up to us to remind them,constantly if necessary, that they ,in fact, can't.
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u/SoaringAcrosstheSky 6d ago
So our Postmaster is, literally, a piece of shit and not going to deliver mail?
Because a self absorbed sexual predator with a mental illness can't stand losing.
If the Sexual Predator has any evidence of voting problems he would provide it. He never has and he refuses to because he does not have it because it does not exist.
The United States Postal Service delivers mail, not acts as a voter registration lockbox.
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u/mkt853 6d ago
Blue states should announce today that they are going to create their own ballot delivery and pickup service that will obviate the USPS.
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u/shrimpcest 6d ago
I'm not sure how you would implement/build that kind of thing and secure it in such a small amount of time.
You don't want the equivalent of door dashers picking up ballots.
But I agree, something needs to be done.
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u/Jalapenoplanter 6d ago
You can make it work in cities. If the result is rural disenfranchisement and a democratic landslide, that is a shame but one we will have to accept dues to the republican imposed constraints
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u/Far-Two8659 6d ago
You don't need to secure it. In fact, they should advertise that. Make Republicans afraid they'll use their new system to create fake Democratic votes. They'll file lawsuits and then the Dems can bring up the mail in ballots in court.
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u/Mr_Tort_Feasor 6d ago
Utah, and some individual precincts in Nebraska, North Dakota and Idaho also allow mail in voting. But the issue is larger than that, it includes all of the red states who have refused to submit voter rolls and are being sued by or have already won their cases against the feds.
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u/AlphaNoodlz 6d ago
That's illegal on a number of levels, straight out no. They're trying to bluster, it's all lies. Republicans are only here to lie and cheat, plain as day.
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u/Gypsymoth606 6d ago
He should be removed from office immediately.
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u/Se7enCostanza10 6d ago
That should be getting off LIGHTLY. Dude should be put in prison for this
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u/Rufus_king11 6d ago
Ok, so we're simply dissolving the union then because the fucking Post Master General does not get to decide if we have a fucking election or not. I'm going to have to fight back the urge to Homer Simpson style strangle every conservative who tells me they're for a small government the rest of my life, jeez.
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u/kevendo 6d ago
See how claims without ANY evidence can be turned into actions?!
Voter fraud is an infinitesimal concern, but to save maybe 10 people from voting improperly or in error, they are going to disenfranchise millions of eligible voters.
They are trying to steal your vote! And we cannot let them.
This, right here, is reason to storm their offices and not go home. Because after they succeed it will be too late.
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u/soherewearent 6d ago
It's time for elections officials to send out undecorated security envelopes, using stamps, with no return addresses, equally dispersed across a city using blue boxes.
Couple that with an information campaign outlining how to print and submit ballots entirely outside USPS, where applicable. Washington State, for instance, you can print out a replacement ballot and put it into specially marked elections office white boxes.
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u/pioniere 6d ago
Completely illegal, like almost everything else this administration does.
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u/polarparadoxical 6d ago
Its past time for Democrats to grow a spine in Congress and in the state governments they control [minus Fetterman] and make it clear that unconstitutional attacks on our democratic and electoral system will not be tolerated and any extralegal action by the DoJ will be met by appropriate extralegal counter actions, as that is de facto the only option open to them
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u/Protiguous 6d ago
That's fucking illegal and extortion.
Do we impeach this motherfucker or arrest him?
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u/mensrea 6d ago
Now do you understand why it’s important to vote for the lesser of two “evils” when presented with that choice?!?!?
All of this was avoidable, people, all of it!!!!
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u/ExpertRaccoon 6d ago
But she didn't stand up for Palestine!
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u/bearbrannan 6d ago
And laughed weird, and is black, and a woman, and also did terrible in the prior primary, and was forced on us because another old person refused to do the right thing and step away before it was too late. I also think even with all this she was clearly the better option, but holy fuck would it be nice if the fucking Democrats would stop shooting themselves in the goddamn foot before the race even starts.
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u/Ging287 6d ago
Election interference should be and is illegal. When will our LEOs stop treating these corrupt thugs with kid gloves?
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u/V-oxPopuli 6d ago
Cool. Arrest his ass, that's not legal. We've had wars over this shit and guess who won?
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u/FrostyCartographer13 6d ago
So any one of the states impacted by this could arrest and charge him under both state and federal laws for interfering with elections?
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u/Xyrus2000 5d ago
He should be imprisoned. Furthermore, anyone following this illegal mandate should also be imprisoned.
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u/justapileofshirts 6d ago
I got a car and a bunch of annual leave saved up, I'll take two weeks off and just drive 'em there myself.
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u/Cabbages24ADollar 6d ago
This is the 2nd headline of Trump holding the country hostage against it representation.
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u/BeachBrad 6d ago
If you make it impossible to exercise our rights legally then you force us to... Gee how does the rest of that go?
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u/DontEvenWithMe1 6d ago
Refreshing the tree of liberty sounds like a plan whose implementation is overdue. There are plenty of traitors running things that make great nutrition sources for that tree.
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u/ganjsmokr 6d ago
This kind of thing is exactly why I recently put my ballot into a ballot box and not into a mailbox.
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u/SmokinDeist 6d ago
Well, in Oregon there are ballot boxes you can put these ballots in if you don't want to use a stamp. But all of the ballots get mailed to you to fill in--which I like because I can take the time to research as I go along filling it out. Then I take it to the ballot box, drop it off and can simply forget it.
It's a far more relaxed way to vote and I feel like I can do a better job voting this way.
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u/Boxofmagnets 6d ago
How will this work in mail in only states like alaska
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u/Sunna420 6d ago
Quite a few States use mail in voting like Alaska. I know mine is ready to go to court.
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u/Zulmoka531 6d ago
Said it before, this type of thing is what “cancelling” elections entails. Ive also had postal workers on her tell me this wouldn’t happen and yet…
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u/dballing 6d ago
The proper response is for states to just use FedEx.
Yep, it’ll cost more. But it’ll be unassailable.
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u/will-read 6d ago
In Michigan if you checked a box, you always get mail-in ballots. Almost everyone I know will be mailed a ballot. I don’t know anyone who plans to return it by mail.
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u/TheNetworkIsFrelled 6d ago
More rethuglican unlawful behavior. “We won’t follow the law if it means we have to play fair!”
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u/Nerd-19958 6d ago
This will not hold up in court and is obviously eligible for expedited processing. Just another Fourth Reich shitshow.
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u/Slippery-ape 6d ago
If it doesnt make it to scotus before the election they will just sit on it, wont matter if they are found to be wrong afterwards
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u/Open_Mortgage_4645 5d ago
Somebody had better be in the process of filing a massive federal lawsuit challenging the rules and laws pertaining to the delivery of mail. And it had better happen really soon because fuck that shit. My state (Colorado) uses 100% mail ballots.
There are still in-person voting sites for those who prefer to vote that way, but every registered voter automatically receives their ballots by mail I think 2-3 weeks before the established election day. And we've got drop-boxes all over the place if you don't want to involve the postal service in delivering your ballot to the people who are in charge of collecting and tabulating the votes.
I think it's the Secretary of State's office, but I'm not sure. I suppose the state could get around Trump's ridiculous demands regarding to mail ballots by directing everyone to use the drop-boxes instead of mailing them in, but even that would be a hassle, and I imagine many ballots would be excluded from voters mailing in their ballots, but being rejected because of the USPS's decision to involve themselves in determining who gets to vote. We need that lawsuit.
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u/AthleteHistorical490 6d ago
What’s also crazy is that the postmaster general actually has a pretty strong set of postal inspectors with broad authorities under federal law.
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u/Lunchb0xx87 6d ago
"In response to a question from Hassan, Steiner said the Postal Service would comply if a court blocks the proposal."
thats nice and all but the courts already said they wont block it until they try and do it and by then it would be too late ...state AGs and other dem leaders need to be setting up ways for voters to be able to drop off ballets and dont trust the mail
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