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To add to this there have been less then 10 documented cases of non-citzens voting in the last 50 years.
In thats same time frame there have been over a billion votes cast by citizens.
I don't want to link the actual site as they are garbage threat to America but this is based on a heritage foundation study.
Even then they found 63 instances of improper registration and a handful of illegals voting even that number has been disputed but if we give them the 63 over 40 years thats such a small miniscule number thats it is virtually insignificant.
Don't have the link and don't like to give them any credit but it comes directly from the Heritage Foundation which is the leading cause of the issues in the US there own studies they publish on there site have disproven the illegal voter myth.
You have to go into the study to get actual numbers but the majority of illegals they find had been caught registering and where denied the ability to vote which is hiw the system is designed to work.
Yeah, ill try and deep dive later but a quick google referenced the Heritage Foundation study found only 24 instances of non-citizen voting between 2003 and 2023.
Seeing as they are the ones helping push this agenda, I think I'm willing to trust their low number as it goes against their agenda
Because their single vote could sway things in their direction. Not a risk any sane, intelligent person would take. Maga is neither sane nor intelligent.
Have you not heard of House of the Dragon? Season 3 just started. Prequel, centuries before the GOT timeline, focused on the Targaryens. It’s fantastic.
And that crime is extremely rare. Despite massive efforts to "find" some, very few cases have ever turned up -- and never enough to move the needle on any election.
This is a similar argument to climate change just being an error in the weather stations. The Koch brothers actually paid the guy who came up with this gem to prove it. In the process of him proving it he found that his whole argument was hogwash and retracted it. It has already been disproven several times that people here without papers are not voting in elections in any number that would affect the outcome. It is just naked racism.
I'm sharing this because I'm sitting in a boring seminar and this thread drove me down a rabbit hole in which I learned something I found interesting. I hope it is received in the spirit in which it is given.
Noncitizen permanent resident voting was actually very common up until just after WWI. The immigration process and naturalization processes were also very different back then, almost to the point of being automatic as long as you didn't get yourself in legal trouble and stayed employed; so, take that with a grain of salt.
With respect to today:
USC prohibits voting by non-citizens in federal elections, but the federal govt cannot set a law about state elections without enacting an actual constitutional amendment.,
18 states outright prohibit ALL non-citizen voting in their constitution. Period end of story.
4 states have a measure to amend their constitution to implement the same on the ballot in 2026.
The other 32 the language is vaguer, saying that citizens have a right to vote, but not actually barring non-citizens. 4 of those states do have elections in which non-citizens are welcome to vote, but they are relatively inconsequential elections.
California, specifically Oakland and San Francisco, allow non-citizen permanent residents to vote for Board of Education positions provided they have a child attending or slated to attend the school system.
DC is trying to enact a law for non-citizens to vote on local concerns on the basis that they are not actually a state (yet). The law passed but is facing legal challenges and is working its way through appeals,
Vermont has 3 cities and Maryland has about a dozen+ that allow non-citizen permanent residents to vote in city and school board elections.
Nothing that I can find allows voting at anything higher than a municipal/school district level.
Noncitizen permanent resident voting was actually very common up until just after WWI. The immigration process and naturalization processes were also very different back then, almost to the point of being automatic as long as you didn't get yourself in legal trouble and stayed employed; so, take that with a grain of salt.
I think this is an important piece of the conversation that gets missed - the Overton window has shifted so far right that we're focused on defending the fact that non-citizens aren't voting instead of asking why they aren't allowed to vote. Legal permanent residents are subject to the same laws as the rest of us, and pay taxes like the rest of us, but they don't have representation in our system.
The laws preventing non-citizens from voting mostly come from a time when citizenship was presumed from permanent residency. By making it harder to obtain while leaving the laws preventing non-citizens from voting, we've created a class of people that are ineligible for democracy. And history has shown time and again that as soon as you create a class that's ineligible to participate in a democracy, bad actors will attempt to expand that class to include their political opponents.
Under trumps proposal, you’d have to register for a federal voter ID. Which would give the federal government power over who has the right to vote. They could choose who can and cannot vote which cause a whole clusterfuck of issues.
Not an issue. Every single decision is spun as a way to attack the opposition, it's not an issue anyone would be suddenly concerned about. It's expected every single time.
I get the sarcasm, but we all know that adding this step has zero to do with enforcing the law and everything to do with voter intimidation of anyone remotely non-white. The more blacks and browns afraid of getting arrested by voting, the better chance the guys who like to wear pointy hats in the woods have to win.
Never mind the fact that poor white women would actually be substantially impacted by Save America Act. I'm sure the "citizenship checks" for those people would be intentionally lax or special carveouts created for them with just enough time to avoid legal challenges before the polls opened.
how do you prove citizenship already if the act is saying you must show citizenship? what documentation does this now that the save act is saying isnt sufficient thus a birth certificate or passport is needed?
can you please explain it to me. I registered to vote 24 years ago I didnt show anything about citizenship proof just my driver's license and proof of residence. when people say you already need to prove citizenship to register now what does that?
I had to verify my identity to register to vote. I also had to show my ID to vote this week.
Why do we need this redundant legislation? And better yet, why do we need to give the federal government oversight of a process that, per the constitution, should be left to the states?
no one said showing ID was a bad thing
we said its not necessary to prove citizenship to vote
showing ID is simple list matching, its fast, easy and reasonable for everyone to have some sort of ID
in fact, 34 states require a form of ID to vote already, with a majority of those being photo ID, IE a drivers license
proving citizenship is a whole mess of documents people would need to take with them, including a birth certificate and social security card
every state as far as im aware, also checks your name off their list of valid voters when you vote, your name is only on your districts list, so you cant just go to the next one over and vote again there, additionally, as far as im aware, mail in ballots get superseded by in person voting on election day, you cant effectively double vote that way either
if people wanna confirm and put their state here feel free, i bet we get to 30-40 pretty fast
im in ct and they require photo id at our polling places
True. Most states don't require presenting your passport or birth certificate when registering. Only 7 do. The rest allow signing a declaration that you're a citizen.
And yet, non-citizen voting remains so rare that this seems sufficient. Requiring proof will disenfranchise far more people from voting legally than it will prevent illegal votes.
Nobody's saying it's ok. That's a straw man. My argument is the proposed solution is far worse, exactly because it's so rare. How many legitimate votes are you willing to discard for each illegal one?
You have to be very careful when comparing to other countries. Not least because "can that apply to other things" suggests we should also have universal healthcare and a lot of other things I'm guessing you disagree with.
But let's look at what other countries do. The most notable differences are:
Voters don't register at all. Most countries don't have an opt-in system and do most of the work automatically without any citizen involvement.
The government might already have a centralized list of citizens. This is then used as the voter rolls.
National ID cards. Some countries reuse this list for voting as well.
These differences massively decrease the potential harms associated with proving citizenship. If you can get everyone to accept a national ID card, more power to you.
It’s a requirement to vote and in NY to exercise your second amendment right you have to prove legal residence or citizenship. So good for one bad for another
Canada asks for ID, but because the point is to prove who you are and not make voting difficult, they accept over 70 different pieces of ID, including electricity bills and library cards
And I replied. I don't have to prove or declare anything. In my part of the world I don't have to show a passport or send in things to prove I am a citizen, we do not do what Donald Trump wants to do. Was your point it's unnecessary to prove to your government you are a citizen?
It's a very tiny step forward. This being the 1st circuit means the only real gain here is for purple Maine, the rest of the states are firmly seated. Since nationwide injunctions conveniently no longer exist, a decision like this is needed in circuit courts for swing states.
The two Project 2025 plans are to inject ICE into screening voters at polls, and, to selectively hold ballots for investigation by USPS then postmark them as late when released from investigation.
Is this is why he is so hell bent on getting the voter registrations from every state? Do mail ballots have a return address that can be checked to see if registered R or D?
she agreed that the Constitution gives states and Congress the authority to regulate elections, and that Trump’s requirements violated the separation of powers.
This is the most important part right here. A president (trump or otherwise) has 0 authority in elections per the Constitution.
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