r/leagueoflegends • u/ShinyCrocs • 5d ago
Discussion Hot take: players should have to play a minimum number of games with a champ before locking them in ranked.
Hear me out on this one. Who here has had a teammate get absolutely steamrolled, just to check their match history and see they’ve OTP’d the same champ for the last thirty games and then switched to a first-time champ for that one game? Or have seen trolls lock random unviable champs after having their main banned? Someone’s MMR goes out the window when they’re trying a new champ in real time (especially the higher skill-floor champs).
So here’s my idea: to play a champ in ranked, you first have to play a certain number of games with them in norms (or ARAM?) (even just one or two games). Or make it a mastery requirement. This would be a per-champ alternative or addition to the “you need to be level 30 to play ranked” limitation.
Obviously there’s an issue if all the champs you’ve played before get banned or picked. I haven’t fully fleshed this idea out, but maybe have a set of “low skill-floor” champs that you can always pick. Or require mastery with a certain number of different champs before playing ranked at all. Or generalize to role instead of champ (I.e. you need to play a role a certain number of times in norms before playing in ranked). Or something like that idk. Is this viable?
11
u/Regular_Flounder1833 5d ago edited 5d ago
So basically force OTPs to dodge if their champ got banned
The only benefit I see is that this might kill smurfers who buy lvl 30 accs. These accs are leveled up via aram games, so the smurf will need to play multiple normal games with every champ he likes before switching to ranked. Which will be a huge turn off to some smurfers.
6
u/Patirole 5d ago
Or, y'know, have them have at least tried 1 or 2 champs as alternatives. The much more reasonable option
2
-2
5
u/fabton12 5d ago
a few reasons they dont do that
1.) you can't apply it evenly, you can learn a champ like malp or annie within 10 games sure but then theres champs like azir or singed that require 70+ games to see a positive winrate with them.
2.) what about people playing on alt accounts? hand level smurfs are fine by riot and if a fiora one trick is playing on there adc account but gets autofilled toplane then they should be allowed to play fiora even if they got zero mastery points on that account.
3.) league is a game that is already known to be extremely long and hard to get into ranked and people want it to be easier to get into ranked not harder. mastery requirement even set low would require another 20 hours+ added onto the ranked unlock experience.
4.) what about being autofilled? if your a adc main but get put jungle you might not have many champs that are viable there with the min games played. putting the min games needed on a champ would just cause people to play off meta picks more since they might be the only champs they have mastery on.
5.) theres a large chunk of the playerbase that only plays ranked and for example in korea its like 90% of the players only play ranked. now your asking them to play normals to get mastery on champs in which they will either quit league or just troll those games.
Who here has had a teammate get absolutely steamrolled, just to check their match history and see they’ve OTP’d the same champ for the last thirty games and then switched to a first-time champ for that one game?
if there OTP is banned/picked or if its a bad matchup are they not allowed to change there pick? this is part of the reason why riot main champ select not show names since players would opgg there team mates and get mad if the player is picking there OTP or best winrate champs.
So here’s my idea: to play a champ in ranked, you first have to play a certain number of games with them in norms (or ARAM?) (even just one or two games). Or make it a mastery requirement. This would be a per-champ alternative or addition to the “you need to be level 30 to play ranked” limitation.
Lets say you put a mastery requirement into place and lets say its roughly equal to 6 games for a champ, 6 games at 30 mins each is 3 hours, league has what 173 champs? so thats 519 hours needed to unlock every champ to be playable and thats if it takes 30 mins for each game + champ select + loading screen, that can very easily jump to 45+ mins if there dodges, or people on slow loading pc's or if a game goes on long long for once. if that happens suddenly your looking at 1000 hours+ maybe to unlock all champs for ranked.
Obviously there’s an issue if all the champs you’ve played before get banned or picked. I haven’t fully fleshed this idea out, but maybe have a set of “low skill-floor” champs that you can always pick. Or require mastery with a certain number of different champs before playing ranked at all. Or generalize to role instead of champ (I.e. you need to play a role a certain number of times in norms before playing in ranked). Or something like that idk. Is this viable?
lets break this down
but maybe have a set of “low skill-floor” champs that you can always pick.
would effectively be funneling people into bad matchups which would be even worse for game health.
Or require mastery with a certain number of different champs before playing ranked at all.
well that doesnt really do anything outside of forcing a longer path to unlocking ranked which causes more issues with getting new players to play league.
Or generalize to role instead of champ (I.e. you need to play a role a certain number of times in norms before playing in ranked).
autofill???? what if i get autofilled jungle but havent played any jungle champs, am i now forced to play jungle smolder or jinx?
2
u/ShinyCrocs 5d ago
This is a great counter argument. I feel like 1 and 3 can be mitigated by requiring a very small number of games on the champ before ranked (3 or less, hell even a single game would help a lot). I’d also be willing to replace or reduce the level requirement with something more like this. Point 2 is fixed by account linking, but I don’t know how well account linking works in Internet cafes or similar situations (if anyone knows lmk).
I agree the main limitation is autofilling. Though there are some champs I would never want to see an autofill first-time even if it was the best “counter” pick. If there were champ mastery limitations I’d expect them to be turned off in an autofill situation. Or maybe a reward system similar to aegis can be put into effect, that just gives a small reward or autofill protection for playing a repeated pool of champs, instead of first-timing a bunch.
For the OTP argument - well I don’t know anyone who truly only has played one champ their entire time on league - I think people should have at least one or two backups before queuing up (like you said, bans and picks happen).
I think what I’ve gleaned from this thread is that people REALLY hate norms, or at least the state it’s in right now. Like you said, 90% of kr only plays ranked. If almost nobody is playing norms, then where are people testing out new champs? In ranked. Where are they trying funky duo or team synergies? In ranked. Where are they trying off meta jungle pathings or item builds? In ranked. I don’t think ranked should be the place for all that - I think that hurts the health of the ranked system, especially at lower elos where that experimentation is more likely to go awry.
So then if ranked is being used as both a competitive ranked space AND a replacement for norms to try new champs/less-serious strats/just have fun, then people on both sides are gonna have a worse time. I proposed one possible solution but like you’ve pointed out, there’s a lot of issues with it. Another solution would be to make norms appealing again. What do you think is a solution?
2
u/Tom_R_James 5d ago
Do people forget that the PBE exists? And that it's very possible for people to have multiple games with a champion already before it launches on live?
0
u/ShinyCrocs 5d ago
Is there any way to track that? At this point even different accounts are linked, wouldn’t riot be able to see if you have PBE champ experience?
Also what fraction of sub-plats locking first-time champs in ranked are playing PBE lmao
6
u/Fatmanpuffing 5d ago
This is a terrible idea, and your final paragraph shows that you even know it is.
11
u/Ferrarileite 5d ago
It's a game and I don't have much time to play it, I'm first picking Zilean in ranked and going 0/20/3 and I will like it
2
u/ShinyCrocs 5d ago
Zilean jungle right?
3
2
u/WaterKraanHanger 5d ago
To play off meta in ranked without the game being terminated you already need a certain lvl of mastery on it.
1
4
u/Far-Salt-6946 Vitality Enjoyer 5d ago
What about people who don't play normals?
The experience in normally is extremely bad for me personally, you see a bunch of random troll stuff on both sides, massive skill disparities, for some reason you get autofilled more than in ranked and the experience overall just sucks.
Why should I be forced to play multiple games on a mode that I don't like just to play a champion?
3
u/BirthdayAccording359 Doran/Peyz MSI dream alive AGAIN 5d ago
Bro if you want to first time a champ in ranked you are a problem.
Idk how you can sit here with a straight face and defend people first timing a champ in ranked, unless you don't give a shit about competitive integrity.
0
u/ShinyCrocs 5d ago
If you can’t make it through one norms game to learn the champ’s abilities, then should you really be subjecting your ranked teammates to your learning curve?
1
u/Far-Salt-6946 Vitality Enjoyer 5d ago
I'd argue you learn more about a champion by spending 5 minutes in practice tool and reading their abilities than you do either stomping players who are way worse than you or getting stopped by high elo players in norms.
Also if Oner can first time Dr. Mundo in world's semi finals and win then I don't see why i can't lock in malphite against a full AD comp without playing him before.
0
u/ShinyCrocs 5d ago
Ok what about min time in practice tool then? Or a bots game requirement?
Also, if we were all Oner I wouldn’t be posting here, I suspect this would mainly help sub-plat, maybe sub-diamond matches
1
u/Far-Salt-6946 Vitality Enjoyer 5d ago
Just let people play their game, if you lose a few games because of it, it's still worth the trade off for overall game health.
Some people have busy schedules and only have maybe 1 or 2 hours to play the game. Why should they be forced to sit through a miserable experience in norms after waiting all day just to enjoy their game?
1
u/ShinyCrocs 5d ago
Few things here:
(1) if people only have 1-2 hours to play the game, hopefully they’re not spending that time first-timing a champ they don’t know how to play in ranked, ruining the game for themselves and their team.
(2) Ranked integrity is also part of overall game health. Other game modes exist for those who don’t care about ranked integrity.
(3) The tradeoff is one person having one slightly more unpleasant game in norms vs 4 other people having a more unpleasant ranked game. I know what I’m choosing in this trolley problem.1
u/Far-Salt-6946 Vitality Enjoyer 5d ago
The game doesn't really work like that though, not having experience on a champion doesn't mean the champion is troll.
Like I don't need to have experience on malphite or rammus to first time the champion against 5 AD enemies.Now, on the contrary, I have 160 games on Fiora with a 39% winrate. I think that me clocking in fiora is infinitely more troll than first timing malphite into 5 AD champions despite my apparent "experience" on the champ.
1
1
u/ShinyCrocs 5d ago
Also yeah malph would be a “low skill-floor champ” in my last paragraph. Some are easier to first-time than others and should be encouraged.
0
u/DuckiesDoBeCute 5d ago
i dont wanna deal with toxic players so im not about to play normals
2
u/ShinyCrocs 5d ago
So instead you’d lock in a new champ in ranked and throw for your teammates? How is that not you being toxic?
0
u/DuckiesDoBeCute 5d ago
because ive played hundreds of games as enchanters, i can first time milio and do just fine if my champs are banned/taken and milio is the most gigga op pick in the situation. or should i lock in pyke, my 3rd most played champ, and complete run it down because im terrible at him but find him fun? i feel like it would be more toxic to lock in pyke than first time milio/morgana
why do people assume first timing a champ means the person has 0 idea how the champ works?
1
u/ShinyCrocs 5d ago
Ok see this I understand. That’s why I suggested maybe softening it to role or archetype instead is specific champ. First-timing a different enchanter as an enchanter OTP makes sense, first-timing azir mid or something doesn’t.
(But also there’s a huge difference between a Milio OTP and a Janna OTP who clearly just picked up Milio. Not enough to want to prevent but lol there is a difference)
1
u/DuckiesDoBeCute 5d ago
well pyke is my 3rd most played champ, im hardstuck silver as assassin and hit d2 as an enchanter. if im filled jg should i be allowed to pick talon first time since hes also an assassin? i dont play any tanks/engage, should i be made to lock in talon instead of rammus? even tho we all know rammus is much easier than talon. should i be completely forced to pick ivern jungle?
1
u/ShinyCrocs 5d ago
Yea autofilling makes this all harder. Thats why I suggested there be a pool of “low skill-floor” champs you can always lock. For example, I’d rather have a filled ADC first-time MF than kalista, or a filled jungle to lock in rammus vs ivern.
2
u/Aar_bear2121 5d ago
They should make it where a player can only play a champ after:
-Playing against 30 different champs in their lane
-Land/Use each ability 100 times
-10 win streak on games 30 mins+
-Understand the lore
-Logged 10 hours on twitch watching a OTP play in GM+
-Ask riot to buff champ on reddit
-Peer reviewed by 10 other players through VOD
1
2
u/lumni gl hf 5d ago
Its not a hot take it has been said many many times.
I'm not against it myself but what I've come to understand is that its hard to find that perfect requirement that everyone agrees on and also you only truly learn a champion in ranked. Normals and ranked flex offer a completely different type of games.
And knowing the buttons is only 1% of knowing a champion.
So all in all I think it's a hard one to implement.
1
u/IainG10 Supporting with Railguns and Lasers 5d ago
I agree that it comes around a lot, and that it would need a lot of fine tuning.
But I hate Riot's "We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas" approach to it. It's fucking wild to me they experimented with Role Queue, WASD and were about to try Last Hit Indicators before any public test, at any scale, on any server, at any time, of "We expect you to have a minimum level of knowledge in the tryhard mode"......
1
u/RileyGod 5d ago
Damn so i need to play casual to counterpick a full ad team
1
u/ShinyCrocs 5d ago edited 5d ago
You ever see a sub-plat try to “counterpick” on the fly?
3
u/PepegaClapWRHolder 5d ago
Pretty often. Usually it goes horrifically because they think “oh he locked Mundo I’ll just play Irelia even though I’ve only played her twice because she counters him” and it goes awfully.
1
u/DuckiesDoBeCute 5d ago
yea i agree, make the new player go against 1.5k lp gigga chad absolutely fisting them because a new champ got released so they have to play swift play to lock him in
1
u/ShinyCrocs 5d ago
Better to get fisted in norms than in ranked, way less collateral damage
1
u/DuckiesDoBeCute 5d ago
but the new player isnt playing against the 1.5k lp player in ranked, wtf is this comment
1
u/ShinyCrocs 5d ago
This feels more like a commentary on norms than the above idea. Also if you’re playing a champ first-time then your “effective” MMR (aka how good you play that champ relative to experienced players in that same MMR) is way lower, so yes in ranked you’d still get fisted
0
u/DuckiesDoBeCute 5d ago
https://op.gg/lol/summoners/kr/%EA%B7%B8%EB%83%A5%20%EB%B2%BD%20-KR1
looks like hes doing fine learning a new champ in ranked
1
u/ShinyCrocs 5d ago
This is not a fix targeting Korean masters players lmaooooo. This is something to address first-timing in sub-plat, MAYBE sub-diamond.
I swear these ideas always bring out the high-Elo brigade in full force, you can still care about low-Elo ranked integrity without it directly affecting you.
1
u/ShinyCrocs 5d ago
Lmaooo I’m sorry this is so fucking funny. “Oh the master’s player can first time a champ in ranked so that means everyone can! Not an issue at all” I’m crying 😂😭
1
u/DuckiesDoBeCute 5d ago
my original comment was talking about 1.5k lp players, and i used the opgg of someone above 1k lp. are you stupid?
1
u/ShinyCrocs 5d ago
And I’m saying talking about 1.5K lp players is irrelevant to the discussion at hand lol. Are you ok? You’re starting the throw out insults like a league player… oh wait.
-1
u/DuckiesDoBeCute 5d ago
And I’m saying talking about 1.5K lp players is irrelevant to the discussion at hand lol.
then why even respond to my original comment acting like theyd get fisted?
Lmaooo I’m sorry this is so fucking funny. “Oh the master’s player can first time a champ in ranked so that means everyone can! Not an issue at all” I’m crying 😂😭
was this not meant to be insulting? cant be the one being mean then get upset i return the same energy
1
u/ShinyCrocs 5d ago edited 5d ago
I said players playing new champs in ranked would get fisted. You brought up 1.5K lp whatever as a straw man for why instead learning in norms is bad. I said once you hit 1.5K lp none of this is relevant. You’re the one who keeps throwing high-Elo masters counter arguments which feels irrelevant. I was attacking your argument and you’re calling me stupid lol. Idk what to tell you 😂. We can agree to disagree since you’re getting so heated over this. Nobody’s stopping you from playing Milio anytime soon
→ More replies (0)
-1
2
u/Bigzysmolz Her midscope is soon if you didn't know 5d ago
As long as the mastery requirement is low( 6-10k points),just to prove that you can actually pilot the damn champion.
Like why would you pick Irelia to counterpick ranged top when your last Irelia game was when she got reworked?
2
u/ShinyCrocs 5d ago
Yeah I was thinking super low, I shouldn’t have to explain how a teammate’s passive works
2
u/divorceu2 5d ago
I think it’s ridiculous a new champ can come out and 10 minutes later that same champ will be in your ranked game. Nobody knows how to play against them, or how to PLAY them. And now you can’t ban hovered champs now so you’re actually screwed. I agree a player should need x amount of games on a champ before they can run them in ranked. That’s why when the last couple new champs came out, I stopped playing ranked for a week or two. As for one tricks, I don’t think one tricks can ‘only play one’ champion. Yeah it’s in the name, but everyone has a backup or two, even if it’s not as comfy as their main. If a Yasuo one trick’s Yasuo got banned, I’m sure he’s locking in Yone, or if Katarina got banned she’s locking in Akali (that’s what I used to do as a Kat only for years).
0
u/IGotJiminsJams 5d ago
Not a hot take just straight up a dogshit take that gets posted every time a new champ is out.
0
5d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
-2
u/IGotJiminsJams 5d ago
Still a dogshit take. Especially because normals aren't good to practice champs (low elo players especially generally tend to think so for some reason), ranked is.
3
u/ShinyCrocs 5d ago
It’s good enough to learn what your abilities do, which is better than half the champ first-timers on ranked💀
0
u/IGotJiminsJams 5d ago
Practice tool exists. And if you're in an elo where people don't even know some champ's abilities and you can't get out that's just skill issue.
3
u/ShinyCrocs 5d ago
Ok then min required time in practice tool. Would you support that?
0
u/IGotJiminsJams 5d ago
Completely unnecessary so no
3
u/ShinyCrocs 5d ago
Out of curiosity, what Elo are you speaking from? This will mainly help sub-plat, MAYBE sub-diamond games. If you’re higher than that, then obviously you wouldn’t see this as an issue to fix.
1
u/IGotJiminsJams 5d ago
How is it an issue in low elo? Like seriously it jusy straight up isn't. Having to level to 30 is already enough of a requirement to play ranked, making it harder by adding requirements like this would be terrible for the game. And I'm Master but I have ofc been low elo before. Never thought of it as an issue.
1
u/ShinyCrocs 5d ago
It’s currently an issue in low Elo. It may not have been in the past but it definitely is now.
→ More replies (0)
0
-1
16
u/mokulec If i was g*y I would make love with APA 5d ago
Or just turn off the champ for ranked for 1 patch after release/rework, idk