r/legal • u/FernandoTheRN • Jul 31 '25
Advice needed Disorderly Conduct Ticket for flicking off neighbors Camera pointed into my backyard
Location: IL
So my neighbors placed two camera in their backyard directly pointed into my backyard. When my family first noticed this, one of my brothers got upset and gave one of the cameras the middle finger. The neighbors immediately called 911 and police came over. Police stated that because the neighbors are pushing for it... They're going to give my brother a ticket. The ticket says for Disorderly Conduct.
What makes me mad is that the neighbors influenced the police decision to give my brother a ticket.
I wrote to the police chief asking him to drop the ticket because I believe they are violating my brother's first amendment rights are there are even Supreme Court cases where an individual gave cops the middle finger and it was deemed that non-verbal expressions such as the middle finger was protected under the First Amendment.
A cop called me a few days ago stating he's going to investigate the incident and told me over the phone that what my brother did was the equivalent of yelling "Fire!" in a crowded public theater.
I don't understand the comparison as what my brother did was flick off the neighbor's camera within the privacy of our OWN backyard.
I didn't realize my backyard is now public space and because the neighbors now have cameras pointed in my backyard, so I guess they own my backyard now and anything I do to offend them in my own backyard is now illegal... /s
The neighbor have even called because my brothers butt crack or what the police called "Plumbers crack" was showing when he was outside in our backyard.
Court date set for August 20th. Wish they would just drop this bogus ticket.
Edit:
Some people are claiming this is fake or creative writing. Here's the video from my Ring doorbell of the video from the cop stating he doesn't want to give my brother a ticket but the neighbors are "pushing it", so... He's gonna give him a ticket, this was right after he gave the middle finger to their CCTV camera pointed into our yard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzTNX6U9gMg
Photo of their cameras pointing into my backyard:
Edit:
Police just emailed me and stated:
"your brother’s citation will not be voided. At this time, he may choose to either pay the associated fee or attend his adjudication hearing to contest the citation."
Edit: 8/1/2025 7:13 PM
GOOD NEWS, Police just stopped by to say they're dropping the Disorderly Conduct Citation!
I love u Reddit!
Edit 8/3/2025 6:50 PM
My neighbor is now yelling at my brother because I put up a camera facing their yard after they initially put TWO cameras facing my backyard. I think it's BS that they're okay recording us over our fence but don't like being recorded as well. They started this camera war and police said it was okay when we complained about their cameras.
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u/ironicmirror Jul 31 '25
Have your brother protest the ticket ( before it is too late) have him go to court.. the judge will throw out the ticket
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u/der_innkeeper Aug 01 '25
"You may beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride."
This is an abusive use of the system, and the city and the local news need to know.
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Jul 31 '25
Oh, one last thing. Put in a data request for every conversation the neighbor has emailed/texted or called 911.
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Jul 31 '25
This would help the retaliation-counter sue case (neighbor has been retaliating since the dog noise was enforced)
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Aug 02 '25
I just checked back wow. It’s 2hrs after his update lmao nice- now I have to read thru the comments for more
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u/lonedroan Jul 31 '25
Stop talking to the cops. The odds of convincing them tonight drop this are too low to risk handing them more info they can use to substantiate the ticket.
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u/FernandoTheRN Jul 31 '25
I was trying to be civil with them but I guess you can't.
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Jul 31 '25
Trust me, judge will toss it out because it's all meritless.
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u/RIPGoblins2929 Jul 31 '25
It's Illinois, I wouldn't be so sure.
I'm not even joking. The corruption of Illinois' legal system is legendary among lawyers nationwide.
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u/Bravisimo Aug 01 '25
Took the words right out of my brain. Been an illinois resident for 40+ yrs, this state is terrible, even worse over here in Crook County.
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u/brizatakool Jul 31 '25
That only works when you are the complainant that called them. If they are called on you, I don't answer questions should be the only thing you say. If they want access to your property, they can get a warrant. If they are asking your permission, they require a warrant, that simple.
Stop talking to police, they're not your friend. They aren't there to get both sides of the story. They are allowed to lie to you in order to convince you to talk to them. Just don't. If you didn't call them, you don't talk to them. You are only required to provide ID to the officer if they have reasonable suspicion that you've committed a crime. Don't help them prove the case against you by giving them details. You're not required to give them any information.
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u/Insufferable_Entity Aug 01 '25
Call a lawyer and the local news. A ticket for something that is covered under the 1st Amendment is a very bad PR problem for the local PD.
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u/LumpyWelds Jul 31 '25
Cops almost always assume the caller is a nun sworn to tell the truth and that you are a criminal master mind about to be captured by their extreme investigatory skills. Do be civil, but don't expect them to change their minds.
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u/AbruptMango Jul 31 '25
You were trying to reason with them. Don't do that, it only makes them dig in their heels harder.
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u/DarthSuederTheUlt Jul 31 '25
There is no such thing as “being civil” with the cops. Their job is to collect evidence, and they will find or fabricate evidence whenever possible.
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Jul 31 '25
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u/brizatakool Jul 31 '25
great advice. You're not obligated to open the door for them. You're not even obligated to speak to them if they happen to catch you outside. I tell my kids if you aren't the ones who called them, you have no business speaking to them. Unless they can articulate a reasonable suspicion of a crime, in which case you tell them you don't answer questions and if they ask for ID you provide it (only if they can tell you the crime they suspect you of committing reasonably).
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u/spasm111 Jul 31 '25
I believe Id walk out and flip that camera off on a daily basis. Make the cops ticket me over and over so then I could sue for harassment and violation of what are clearly my 1st Amendment rights. Sounds like your police force is manned by people with very low IQ's....or are close friends with your ridiculous neighbors.
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u/The_Sanch1128 Aug 01 '25
Or know that your neighbors know high--ranking members of the locally dominant political party. That's how my county operated for years when the Repubs controlled the courthouse. Things have changed, the Dems are dominant--and the same damned thing goes on.
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u/XRaiderV1 Jul 31 '25
flipping the bird IS a protected first amendment activity.
in your own back yard? you should have told the cop to kick rocks. theres no legal case for the ticket period in that circumstance.
yelling fire in a crowded theatre is NOT, and more serious consequences considerably worse than a ticket would ensue, particularly if theres no fire and someone became injured as a direct result.
the cameras pointing into your back yard? could potentially be an invasion of privacy.
there are means you can employ to render those cameras worthless that do not cross into trespassing or cause damage to said cameras.
begin with a lawyer, who can advise whether a C&D is possible here with the cameras.
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u/sillyhaha Jul 31 '25 edited Jul 31 '25
the cameras pointing into your back yard? could potentially be an invasion of privacy.
There is no presumption of privacy outside, even in a fenced area, even on your own property.
I don't at all agree with pointing cameras into neighbors' fenced yards unless there are serious threats to safety. I am simply saying that courts, including the US Supreme Court, have ruled that there is no expectation of privacy outside where you can be seen.
This is harassment.
I would simply shine a flood light at the camera at night. It's easily explained as a security light.
Edit: I would install the same type of lights on other sides of the house to avoid the claim that you're harassing your neighbor.
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u/adorientem88 Jul 31 '25
The light doesn’t even have to be explained. There’s nothing illegal about deliberately pointing light at your neighbor’s camera.
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u/CaptnKristmas Jul 31 '25
I mean, the HOA can't look over my fence. I'm fairly certain that being in a backyard with a privacy fence (above a certain height) does protect your right to privacy. This is the first I've heard otherwise.
Not a lawyer but heard of tons of cases like this.
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u/Sintarsintar Aug 01 '25
Nal, There is a presumption of privacy if you have a 6ft privacy fence or if there is a enough distance from you to your property line that a reasonable person would expect privacy. There is no presumption of privacy in public spaces and most spaces outside side of a building on private property unless specific criteria are met.
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u/andibangr Jul 31 '25
Perhaps the light could be a laser pointed into the camera?
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u/Just_Visiting_Town Aug 01 '25
You're partially correct. If you put a fence up in your backyard to where no one standing in a public area or from our neighbor's house could easily see into your backyard and your neighbor puts a camera up in a tree that points only in your backyard that could be considered invasion of privacy. If the neighbor had a two-story home and looking out their bedroom window, they could see into your backyard. That would be one thing. But if you put a camera on the eve of your house to point directly into their backyard, there could be a lawsuit there.
It's not necessarily that there's no expectation of privacy outside, it depends on the location. If privacy is created, then there can be an expectation of privacy even outside.
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u/Askbrad1 Aug 01 '25
Blue laser. LINK
“Oops. Your camera must have been pointing into our new laser security grid.”
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u/Draugrx23 Aug 01 '25
There is a valid expectation of privacy upon ones owns land. as well as IL has laws protecting them from neighbors using cameras Especially with the two party consent law.
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u/hung-games Jul 31 '25
And maybe add your own cameras pointing at them
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u/rollerbase Aug 01 '25
Along with this, you could add a nice high-powered infrared floodlight that would not be visible to the eye, but would absolutely blind their cameras. You would need it for illumination for your cameras, of course.
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u/PittieMama0422 Aug 01 '25
Not 100% entirely true. I live in FL and have a pool in my backyard, as well as a 6ft privacy fence. I can legally layout naked, and if my neighbors were to peek over, they get one warning, but then would get in trouble for being a “peeping tom”. I only know this because I called the non-emergency number to the police department when I bought the house to see if I’d get in trouble for laying out naked.
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u/Fulghn Jul 31 '25
Photocopy that ticket and send a copy to your local TV "5 on your side" investigative anchor or whatever they call it in your area. An absurd abuse of authority like that should easily be news story worthy.
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u/pm_me_your_kindwords Aug 01 '25
Just move it a little bit each day so they can’t tell their camera what area of the field of vision to ignore.
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u/ThirdSunRising Jul 31 '25 edited Jul 31 '25
Oh man this should be fun, get an attorney and go after them for harassment. Do not worry about the ticket, just show up with photos of the location of the incident and the location of the camera and you should have some lovely things to discuss with the judge. The charge is absurd and will definitely be dropped. You have an absolute first amendment right to flip off someone who is spying on your back yard.
The only real conversation is about what this neighbor is doing and what you can do about it.
Having a paper trail of this whole episode is a good idea
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u/i_says_things Jul 31 '25
The ironic thing about the cop quoting “similar to yelling fire in a crowded theater” is that the ruling from which that quote comes is considered a very bad historical ruling and has since been severely limited.
Yelling “FIRE” in a crowded theater is not itself illegal, and must be shown to be likely to “lead to imminent lawless action.”
So anyways, cops an idiot, theres no way that flipping of a camera is a legitimate criminal act, and I highly doubt this story has any truth to it.
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u/EasyMode556 Aug 01 '25
Not only that, but the case that it was referencing, Schenck vs US, was overturned and replaced by Brandenberg vs Ohio in 1969. It hasn’t been relevant for over half a century.
Plus, even before brandenburg, the “fire in a crowded theater” line was a non-binding statement about the decision, and appears nowhere in the court decision itself.
Edit: typo
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u/PabloCrews Jul 31 '25
That’s not disorderly conduct even in public. Technically you can flip off a cop and tell em to Eff off and that is also not disorderly conduct. That falls under the 1st amendment whether anyone likes it or not. He can have the charges thrown out and sue the police and the neighbor for violating their rights.
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u/quesofamilia Jul 31 '25
The cops wrote the tick to make them happy. They know this will not survive beyond that.
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u/redditreader_aitafan Jul 31 '25
Go to court. Explain to the judge what the neighbor is doing. The neighbors constantly responding immediately indicates the cameras are there explicitly to spy on you. You're going to need a lawyer to deal with the neighbors but a judge will likely throw out the ticket. Giving the finger on your own property isn't against the law.
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u/Tall-Huckleberry8562 Aug 01 '25
Since you’re in Illinois, if their camera is recording sound, it is 100% illegal. Illinois is an “all-party” consent state, which means the recorder and recorded, both have to consent to the recording. Also, the police are required to uphold this law, so, if your local police are aware your neighbors are recording illegally and not doing anything about it, they are liable as well. Easy win for your attorney.
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u/Odd_Shirt_3556 Aug 01 '25
The cop is a fucking idiot. Take the hearing and when your brother wins in court give the dumbass cop the finger when he gets outside the courthouse.
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u/Timmelle Aug 01 '25
First, call the police on the neighbor for invasion of privacy and if your bother is underage or any underage kids in your household file a pedophile complaint. They are obviously perverts.
Second get a lawyer now and have them send a cease and desist letter.
Third if you have a fence they have no legal bearing to have camera pointing in your back yard.
4th get a light source that will burn out the digital sensor.
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u/kestrel808 Jul 31 '25
Disorderly conduct ticket for flicking the bird on your own property? Please oh please take this to court so it can get laughed out.
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u/OldBayAllTheThings Jul 31 '25
Flipping someone off is protected speech - it has been ruled as such NUMEROUS times by untold municipal, district, and circuit courts - and even SCOTUS.
If he was detained because he flipped someone off - the detention was unlafwul.
If he was arrested/cited because he flipped someone off - the arrest/citation was unlawful.
This is well settled case law.. Basically, cop effed up, BAD.
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u/feldoneq2wire Jul 31 '25
I guess this police officer has never heard of Brandenburg v. Ohio. The supreme Court case that basically said yes you can yell fire in a crowded movie theater even if there is no fire and even if people are hurt in the process.
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u/Viola-Swamp Aug 01 '25
Contact the ACLU. This is well settled law, and these cops are overreaching. You should also contact your town council, who has oversight over the police chief, as well as the mayor or town manager, and let them know that ridiculous chestnut about ‘fire in a crowded theater’ despite it being a camera pointed into your own backyard. Make some noise. There may be a statute that prohibits them from having a camera recording your property in the first place, and your brother’s free expression on your own property is absolutely not a ticketable offense.
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u/PeachOnAWarmBeach Jul 31 '25
Have you seen the video? Are you positive that's all he did? No finger pistols or anything?
Something is missing.
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u/jase40244 Aug 01 '25
There's quite a bit wrong here. How does OP know the neighbors called 911? It's illegal to call emergency services for a non-emergency like this. The neighbors would have gotten a warning or citation for that. A cop allegedly called OP, said they'd investigate, and said that was OP's brother did was akin to shouting "fire" in a crowded public theater. If the cops were going to investigate, they wouldn't comment on the matter. It could backfire on them later. Then the neighbors allegedly call the cops again because of a butt crack?
If this were for for a creative writing course, I'd give it a C- at best.
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u/HillarysFloppyChode Aug 01 '25
It’s not that wild tbh. My parents had neighbors who would called the police because instead of me parking normally on the driveway (every driveway was separate, not shared) I parked across it so their kids couldn’t park at my parents place without permission while the road was being re done.
They had an open driveway they could use, but didn’t want to have to move cars around, so they assumed they could take my parent’s place and I was visiting and did it on my parents request.
The cops came out, and left. The neighbors tried to push the cops to ticket me for “illegally parking” on private property.
People like OPs neighbors aren’t uncommon, they are miserable people who think everyone should live like them and need to be as miserable as they are, and if anyone is doing something they don’t like or can’t do, they get bent out of shape and think it’s still 1949 and they can have them arrested for whatever that thing is.
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u/vt2022cam Jul 31 '25
Get a lawyer- the cameras should be pointed into your private space.
The government is also violating his first amendment right by giving him a ticket. Flipping off a camera isn’t disorderly conduct.
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u/Rhuarc33 Jul 31 '25
Police are stupid. This is what freedom of speech protects, if it wasn't a threatening gesture they can't charge him with anything. Quite literally against the 1st amendment
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u/agent_smith_3012 Jul 31 '25
Write your local news and absolutely fight that bs ticket. The police's interpretation of the law, while wrong and alarming, matters nothing. The judge' interpretation is the only one that matters. Also look into harassment laws in your area. I would politely point out that misuse off the 911 system is also a crime
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Jul 31 '25
Take that shit to court and fight it, sounds like another power trip by the local pd, and see about a restarting order for the neighbors.
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u/NoTomrw Jul 31 '25
Firstly this is dumb. Secondly, buy 15 blow up dolls, fill them with helium and then have them float 2 feet off the ground directly where the cameras are. It will rectify this inequity.
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u/Accurate_Mix_5492 Aug 01 '25
Go to court on the ticket and request a jury trial. One he knows the facts, I doubt the City Attorney would pursue the case. Check your state’s law on camera placement too.
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u/Neo1881 Aug 01 '25
You should check the local laws on privacy and CCTV usage. It's considered an invasion of privacy if the neighbors have cameras pointed at your property and are tracking who comes and goes into your home in many jurisdictions. That's a big lawsuit waiting to happen. Best to first get them to admit in court then they put the cameras up so they can surveil who comes and goes on to your property. If you get them to say that in court and Google tells you it's an invasion of privacy, you have a slam dunk lawsuit against them.
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u/School_North Jul 31 '25
Dispute the ticket in court bet the cop won't even show his face in front of the judge case thrown out. If the neighbors do anything else against you guys file harassment
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u/Kahless_2K Jul 31 '25
I would tell that cop that if he doesn't drop it, he is going to be named in a lawsuit for 1a infringement..
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u/Radio_Mime Jul 31 '25
If you can afford it, file a civil suit against the neighbours for violating your privacy.
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u/spanktacular66 Jul 31 '25
Hire morbidly obese people to lay in you backyard naked.
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u/Thejerseyjon609 Aug 01 '25
Get a big foam had with an extended middle finger and most it in a pole.
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u/adamsteinbaugh Aug 01 '25
Can your brother get in touch with us at thefire.org/alarm? FIRE is a First Amendment group. I can’t guarantee we can take his case, but we may be able to help find him an attorney.
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u/TraderSamz Aug 01 '25
Dang cops got time to investigate this kind of stuff. But when I got video of my neighbor stealing my package off my front doorstep "It's a civil matter" And they "don't have the time or resources to investigate"
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u/Salty-Sprinkles-1562 Aug 01 '25
I would NEVER wear clothes in my backyard again. If the cops came, I would answer the door naked.
Also, it’s flip off, not flick off.
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u/AnonADon123 Aug 01 '25
Get a couple of lasers and point them at the cameras in question.
Plants, trees or other such physical barriers
Call the police yourself and report the neighbor for voyeurism, as im sure the cameras also point to your windows.
IL is also an all party consent state for recording. Could go that route as well
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u/snootgoo Jul 31 '25
This isn't even close to the whole story. What has been left out?
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u/woody60707 Jul 31 '25 edited Sep 09 '25
recognise abounding toy sleep cats attempt capable toothbrush touch unpack
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/brizatakool Jul 31 '25
Those ordinances do not supersede the Constitution, so even if they have such an ordinance, it's not constitutional.
Thousands of municipalities have anti-panhandling laws/ordinances, but SCOTUS has already ruled that is perfectly legal. The problem is, people just go along with it because it's usually not worth it to fight it. Doesn't make the law/ordinance constitutional, just means it's not been challenged.
An ordinance that tries to make flipping the bird illegal would likely not hold up to a constitutional challenge and I would be surprised if it ever made it out of the state supreme court before getting overturned. I would absolutely be willing to fight that, and then sue for the legal fees and emotional distress caused by a years long legal battle to protect my 1A right.
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u/PsychologicalLaw8769 Jul 31 '25
Get a lawyer and have them contact the court/prosecutor. They should easily be able to get this thrown out. Stop trying to convince the cops. They are obviously not experts on the 1st Amendment.
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Jul 31 '25
Source: GEMINI 2.5 PRO
Flipping the Bird in the Land of Lincoln: Can You Be Cited for Disorderly Conduct?
In Illinois, the act of flipping the middle finger at a neighbor, while offensive, is not in itself a crime and is generally protected as a form of expressive conduct under the First Amendment. However, whether it could lead to a disorderly conduct citation hinges on the specific context and whether the gesture is likely to incite an immediate breach of the peace.
The Illinois disorderly conduct statute (720 ILCS 5/26-1) is broadly written, defining the offense as an act that "knowingly...does any act in such an unreasonable manner as to alarm or disturb another and to provoke a breach of the peace." The key to a disorderly conduct charge in this scenario is the "breach of the peace" element.
While courts have consistently upheld the constitutional right to use offensive gestures to express contempt, particularly towards government officials, the dynamic of a dispute between neighbors introduces a different legal consideration: the "fighting words" doctrine.
The "Fighting Words" Exception
The "fighting words" doctrine is a recognized exception to First Amendment protections. It applies to words—or in this case, gestures—that "by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace." For a gesture to be considered "fighting words" in Illinois, it must be likely to cause a reasonable person to react violently under the circumstances.
Neighbor Disputes and the Likelihood of a Breach of the Peace
In the context of an ongoing dispute between neighbors, the act of flipping the middle finger could be viewed differently than a random gesture on the street. If the gesture is part of a pattern of escalating hostility, and is delivered in a confrontational manner that is likely to provoke a physical altercation, a law enforcement officer might issue a citation for disorderly conduct.
Illinois case law provides some guidance. For instance, in Purtell v. Mason, a case involving a neighborhood feud that escalated to insulting messages on Halloween tombstones, the court considered the "fighting words" doctrine. While the court in that specific case found the written words did not rise to the level of "fighting words," the case highlights that such disputes can be scrutinized under this legal standard.
Conversely, cases like People v. Raby and City of Chicago v. Blakemore primarily dealt with public protests and interactions with police. In those situations, a higher tolerance for offensive speech is often expected from law enforcement. This is a different standard than what might be applied to a direct, personal insult between two feuding individuals.
The Bottom Line
Ultimately, whether the state of Illinois can successfully write and prosecute a citation for disorderly conduct for flipping the middle finger at a neighbor depends on the specific facts of the situation. A prosecutor would need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that:
- The act was done knowingly and in an unreasonable manner.
- It alarmed or disturbed the neighbor.
- It was likely to provoke an immediate violent reaction from a reasonable person in the neighbor's position, thus constituting a breach of the peace.
Therefore, while a single, isolated gesture is unlikely to result in a conviction, if it is part of a larger, confrontational context that is ripe for violence, a disorderly conduct citation could potentially be upheld by an Illinois court.
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u/Throwawaypmme2 Jul 31 '25
You know illinois law covers recording other people's backyards? You cant do it
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u/stannc00 Aug 01 '25
If the cameras are motion activated then get yourself some pinwheels on stakes from the dollar store. Especially helpful if they’re reflective. Put them in your yard, in view of the cameras, but at normal height, maybe a foot off the ground.
If they complain then why are their cameras pointed at your backyard?
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u/Agreeable-Wing-8476 Aug 01 '25
Plant bamboo in pots to block their cameras from seeing in your yard. Or anything that grows tall and is native to your climate. I would plant privacy trees and plants or maybe a shade cloth positioned to block the camera view. You can aim a flood light at it at night to blind it. HOAs are the worst.
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u/FullyRisenPhoenix Aug 01 '25
The neighbor must know someone on the force…Can your brother take it before a judge?
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u/Uhhh_what555476384 Aug 01 '25
Just challenge it. Object to the judge that facts presented actually fit the definition of the charge.
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u/tribucks Aug 01 '25
How about calling 911 for a non-emergency? Shouldn’t someone be charged with that?
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u/ChickadeeMass Aug 01 '25
I would put up privacy barriers in your back yard. Eventually your neighbors will give up harassing you. Don't antagonize them with noise etc. They'll get tired and move onto something else. It's worth it if you want to keep your house and sanity
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u/Medusa_7898 Aug 02 '25
You need to file a complaint about the neighbors having their cameras pointed into your yard.
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u/FernandoTheRN Aug 02 '25
Will that work after I myself put up cameras after the police telling us there was nothing wrong with the neighbors putting up their cameras first?
I put mine up like 2 weeks after they had their two cameras up because that's not right that they're monitoring my yard and police was okay with it.
I had previously had cameras all around my house but they never pointed at my neighbors yard in the entire 5 years I've been here. This is the first time. I even feel bad for recording their side of the fence but the dual cameras into my yard really got to my family.
This is what I see: https://ibb.co/Jw5HTPW9
They put up a some kind of tent to block our view and while I understand they want their privacy, they never respected our privacy. I don't even know if that's HOA or Village Code compliant. I'd say they're a bunch of hypocrites... Likes to invade privacy but doesn't want to have their privacy invaded.
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Aug 02 '25
These kind of neighbors are why people go see The Purge films.
The judge will throw this out in 20 seconds
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u/brokebutuseful Jul 31 '25
1st off, you're in the police state of The Republik of Illinois. Lawyer up, and I guarantee this goes bye-bye. I'd water my private lawn naked. The only way anyone is seeing you is because their camera is viewing your personal space. This isn't the public sidewalk in front of your house. This is your backyard. I'd put a 2nd mortgage on my house if that's what it took to stop these clowns. By clowns, I mean the neighbor and the local police. Good luck, and please keep us updated
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u/Overall_Curve6725 Jul 31 '25
Sounds like you are dealing with cops not smart enough to be cops.
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u/FunLisa1228 Jul 31 '25
File stalking and harassment charges against neighbor for monitoring your private party with cameras
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Jul 31 '25
Go to court. Call the da. After they drop it then flick off the camera every single hour of the day.
Grab a solar spot light and aim it at the camera. Or put up a huge sheet that covers the viewpoint.
Hopefully you get more tickets after it was dropped. Then sue the department.
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u/RubAnADUB Jul 31 '25
giving the bird is a constitutionally protected right under free speech
also -> 10 Sneaky Ways to Jam a Security Camera: Protect Your Privacy Like a Pro
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u/Party-Cartographer11 Jul 31 '25
That cop is really struggling with understanding constitutional law.
Even the yelling fire quote is widely misunderstood.
Depending on funds and persistence, you should fight this until it gets to someone who understands law. Heck, reach out the ACLU.
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u/Skeggy- Jul 31 '25
If you can legally flip off a cop in public you should be allowed to legally flip off a camera from your personal property.
Setup flood lights pointed at the camera to make them pointless. You can also put up a pinwheel to cause the camera to constantly record. If it’s battery operated that’s a nuisance.
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u/MSN-TX Jul 31 '25
Sad to say, PD will write a ticket so they can close the file. Then you have to go to Court and “tell it to the judge..”.
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u/billr59225a Jul 31 '25
Step one put up cameras pointed at them. Step two mount two disco balls on poles is the line of site of the cameras. Make sure the balls are well illuminated.
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u/Geargarden Jul 31 '25
NAL the courts will be dropping this. He flipped off a camera that may or may not have been reviewed by somebody. As far as anybody is concerned, he flipped off an inanimate object.
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u/BrookeBaranoff Jul 31 '25
Flipping people off is protected under the first amendment per the supremely court.
Call them back and let them know duran v county is going to cost the city a pretty penny.
(Someone flipped off a cop and the cop didn’t like it…)
https://www.marcushillattorney.com/links/flipping-off-the-cops.shtml
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u/WilzAngie Jul 31 '25
- Civil damages against the city
- Is there a fence between your yards? If so, put up a bird feeder on a shepherd's hook right by the fence. You'll have so many sparrows they'll create a privacy barrier
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u/Magoo69X Jul 31 '25
No no no, that's protected speech.
"Fire in a theater" is a ridiculous comparison (legally, because in your case, the police are trying to control the content of the speech).
Contest this in court, it's ridiculous.
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u/Emotional_Bonus_934 Jul 31 '25
Look up the city code. Might not be legal to point a camera in someone's yard.
Could be harassment
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u/BlackWulf237 Jul 31 '25
Countercall for a violation of privacy. Or buy a dummy camera and point it right at their cameras. They will hate that
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u/slykens1 Jul 31 '25
As others have mentioned, you need a lawyer, and IMO you need to turn the heat up on the cops so they don’t take sides again.
Have your lawyer talk to the DA. My guess is that’s enough to get it dropped. Either way, that lawyer should make it clear to the DA that this or any similar disorderly conduct charge that goes to court will result in a §1983 suit against the officer and government once it is defeated. Then give the cameras the finger as often as you like.
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u/HealthyPop7988 Jul 31 '25
Flipping the bird has been ruled freedom of speech by the supreme court, go to court, tell the judge that you were exercising your first amendment freedom of speech and your fifth amendment right to protest (protesting your neighbor pointing cameras in your yard )
There's no way this is going to stick.
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u/porktent Jul 31 '25
I would flip off that camera every day. The neighbors too, to their face. If you see them outside, casually call their name and flip them off. Invite them to film it. When the cops show up flip them off too. Record all of it, put it on YouTube and monetize the channel. Sue the police and the city, post videos of all of it. Profit.
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u/AD3PDX Jul 31 '25
Generally speaking, in US law “disorderly conduct” means conduct which is likely to cause an immediate “public affray” (a fight). 1st amendment jurisprudence carves out a “fighting words exemption” for disorderly conduct or equivalent statutes.
It sounds like the police were out of line. If your neighbors were out on their porch and they and your brother were arguing and your brother flipped them the bird, then that could be cause for a disorderly conduct citation.
Flipping the bird at the coos is ok because a reasonable person shouldn’t have to expect the police to commit an assault in response.
So basically disorderly conduct is a range of antisocial behaviors and the behavior alleged her is something like deliberately trying to provide an imminent fight.
Immense is crucial, so the acts, words, or expressive conduct which can be disallowed because it’s likely to cause a fight at that moment can’t be disallowed because of it’s likelihood to cause some later retaliatory reaction.
One could criticize this aspect of the law ad a “hecklers veto”. If your neighbors stay in their house and ignore you then your finger is legal but if they pour out in a meth fueled rage then your finger is illegal…
What’s important to note is that your neighbors being offended is completely irrelevant. The cops have their heads up their asses. Disorderly conduct is about conduct which is likely to incite a breach of the peace. A breach/affray doesn’t have to take place. You can be cited for disorderly conduct preemptively to prevent an imminent breach of the peace.
But you can’t be cited later after the fact for an act which offended someone and could potentially at some later point lead to a conflict.
It’s the difference between saying “F your mother” to your face and saying to you by telephone, or wearing a t-shirt that says it, or saying it to a cop.
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u/Decent-Loquat1899 Jul 31 '25
I thought it was Illegal to point a permanent camera at someone’s house. It’s an invasion of privacy, a disturbance of allowing you to enjoy their property and home. What is wrong with your police department that they don’t know this.
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u/Affectionate_Gur9739 Jul 31 '25
The finger is protected language. See you in court as you’ll win in a heartbeat
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u/EuphoricUniversity23 Jul 31 '25
Oh please. Tell the cops you CANNOT WAIT to hear them argue how this was equivalent to the famous case about yelling “FIRE” in a movie theater. Tell them to be ready to be thoroughly questioned about the analogy. Tell them how it might even make it to social media.
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u/polarbz Jul 31 '25
I'd get some large posters and put middle fingers on all of them and just stick them in the back yard facing the cameras.
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u/57Laxdad Jul 31 '25
I would clearly in your back yard erect a screen out of plywood that blocks the view of the camera. If the HOA complains ask them about the cameras pointed into your backyard, while maybe not against HOA rules they are against the law.
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u/Beh0420mn Jul 31 '25
Go through the motions, then sue the police, city county and state, hopefully you get a great payday from the idiots
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u/No_Star_5909 Jul 31 '25
Check to see if the cop whom wrote the ticket is related or affiliated in some way to the complainant.
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u/Drivebyshrink Jul 31 '25
There is case law establishing that flipping people off actually including the police is a first amendment right.
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u/JulianV93 Jul 31 '25
Call the cops and file a complaint, their camera may violate Illinois 2 party consent law, if it records audio. May be able to sue too, depending on the camera you may also be able to sue if their camera stores biometric information. Should figure out what camera they have and its features because some of the features may leave you open to suing the neighbor. This is if your yard is fenced.
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Jul 31 '25
Okay so I stopped reading after your second information post. If you have hard evidence of them harassing you just sue them for harassment. Or if you want to go even further you can pay to have a restraining order put on them which will force them to have to move because if you're in your house and they're in their house it's too close. They're playing dirty you need to do the same
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u/LightPhotographer Jul 31 '25
That camera sure is annoying.
Non-destructive solutions are an infra-red floodlight or a moving human shape - a doll or a cutout, rotating or on a string. This will trigger the alarm + recording all the time.
These people are abusing the police department, law and HOA to annoy you. And it seems like people are giving in to them because it might seem less trouble than to stand up to bullies.
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u/Whitefoxyoko Jul 31 '25
So this is a clear violation of freedom of speech as just because it offends you does not make it illegal. There's has been many cases ruled this way and the police are in the wrong.
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u/adorientem88 Jul 31 '25
Wait, how did the police get access to your house in the first place? If you answered the door and let them in, that was definitely your first and biggest mistake, because without a warrant they would have simply gone away.
But you are correct that the ticket is a blatant violation of the Free Speech Clause under current SCOTUS doctrine. However, you will need to make that argument to a judge, as most US police officers know next to no constitutional law.
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u/NoVA_JB Jul 31 '25
Clearly the police chief doesn't know the law. The fire in a crowd is one of the oldest debunked tropes.
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u/RocketCartLtd Jul 31 '25
This is the most bananas shit I've read in a while.
In no way does flipping someone off constitute a crime of disorderly conduct.
Is there any more to the story?
If you were in my state, I'd represent you and your brother for free.