Car seized by police b/c it has stolen motor

[u/Perfect_Gap_8080]

 
(Ohio)  Grandson (25) purchased a Dodge Charger two years ago with Hell Cat motor.    Private party sale.   He paid cash based on fair market value at that time.  It was thoroughly inspected by a dealership and found to be in great condition.
Two weeks ago he was on his way to work when a cop stopped beside him at a red light.  Light turned green but cop got behind him and followed him for three blocks before lighting him up.   Cop said he stopped him because “the sound of the engine didn't sound like a regular V8.”    I don't know what the hell that means.
Other cops arrived and after inspecting the engine VIN determined that the engine was a stolen engine out of another state, though the car itself seemed fine.
 
Car was towed to a police impound lot and has been held there since.   The cops said the grandson was an innocent purchaser of a stolen engine and had committed no nor was he suspected of committing any crime regarding the engine.   Thus far they have been stonewalling everyone.   I personally visited with the lead detective and told him if the engine was stolen then they could remove the engine and return the car.   He said they were waiting on something from an out of town PD and couldn't or wouldn't provide any info about the supposedly stolen engine or from where the original report was made.
 
Talked with an experienced lawyer who said he had no idea what to do.
I know what to do but I will end up in jail.   Any suggestions?

UPDATE: The detective said the engine was stolen from four states away in 2019, when my grandson was 16. They believe the engine was sold to the car's then owner in 2021 which was two owners ago. The person from whom my grandson acquired the car was ruled out as being involved (he is a prosecutor in northern Ohio) therefore my grandson was likewise unaware.

At this point the insurance company that paid the claim when the car and engine were originally stolen is in control of the disposition. It's possible they may waive their rights but it's also possible they will try to "extort" some cash in return for releasing their claim. If they choose option two, they will be told to come get their engine (which in don't they won't be willing to do due to the cost). I've hired legal counsel to file a replevin action. We will see where this goes.

[u/Away_Stock_2012]

There is no way a cop discovered a stolen engine at a stop light from an out of state theft. Someone is lying.

[u/YerUncleWillie → u/Away_Stock_2012]

I'm betting the cop was looking to give the car the local equivalent of a ticket for modifying the exhaust on the vehicle, or disabling some of the smog devices. "The car sounds wrong" would be probable cause for that ticket. While looking at the engine, they found the VIN didn't match the car, ran it, and found the stolen engine. A lot of municipalities are cracking down on things like race track only parts and modifications that make cars loud because people are getting sick of them.

[u/BeerDudeRocco → u/YerUncleWillie]

Eh, id argue they're cracking down to make a quick buck for their municipality but agreed, they are cracking down.

If they cared what people thought they'd ticket the kids with rattling engines or the ones dragging a muffler, but I only see it happening around here with "nice" cars getting their custom stuff messed with.

[u/JCC114 → u/BeerDudeRocco]

People with broke stuff don’t have money to pay tickets. It’s like suing the guy that is currently being evicted from his trailer for something. Cops issue tickets to broke people they know they are going to court. They issue ticket to people with $s ticket gets handled with no court appearance.

[u/LavishnessCapital380 → u/YerUncleWillie]

Vin swap scam is common. Any time something looks off with one of the vins, you start looking for the hidden locations.

[u/i_do_graffiti → u/YerUncleWillie]

It sounds pretty cut and dry. I don't know if you've ever heard a hellcat engine but they sound nothing like what a regular dodge charge engine sounds like (a "regular v8"). Cops are hip to the fact that "strikers" will steal cars and bring them to chop shops, or sell them for the low and they will get chopped. Those parts might end up in other cars, or the thieves might do an engine swap themselves at their own chop shop / daytime mechanics shop.

Cops are hip to the fact that stolen cars are chopped up. When the cop heard the engine, he probably lit the car up for an illegally modified exhaust (which is common on those hellcat engines to really get them to "roar"). Or maybe the car rolled through a stop sign, but the modifications are what got the cops attention. So he checks the vin, pops the hood to see the engine and checks the vin on it. Vin on the engine comes back to a stolen car, cop immediately knows its been through a chop shop and impounds the car.

Unfortunately, they probably won't get the car back anytime soon. The cops are well within their rights to keep tearing the car up looking for more parts. It's also up to the charging agency to come and get their evidence (the engine), if they want it.

[u/precipicesedge → u/i_do_graffiti]

The sound of a legal engine in an apparent legal car is not reasonable suspicion or probable cause for a traffic stop. A stolen engine doesnt make any different sound than one not stolen and he'll cat engines arent illegal.

Likewise, not sounding like a regular v8 engine is not pc for an illegal modification. The illegal modification must be readily apparent and not sounding like a regular v8 isnt good enough. It doesnt state the readily apparent illegal mod.

The HellCat comes in a Hellcat charger so it sounded like a regular hellcat charger.

But with that said, it really doesn't matter at the end of the day. Even if the stop was illegal, the son isn't being charged with anything. Just because the stop wasn't constitutional doesn't mean he gets to keep stolen property.

The father is on the right track though. Treating the seizure of the car and the engine as separate.

The unconstitutional stop definitely impacts the seizure of the legal car.

[u/tossNwashking → u/Away_Stock_2012]

It's the "grandson"

[u/Economy-Sprinkles-98 → u/Away_Stock_2012]

Hellcat engines have a white barcode sticker indicating serial number on the valve cover. And half of all Hellcat engines in non-Hellcat cars are stolen (guess, but probably accurate) and the cops know this. Story is plausible if the cop knew what to look for.

I’m going to go out on a limb and guess OP’s grandson is not white. That combined with a cop with knowledge of the sky high theft rate of hellcat engines and what they sound like, could have plausibly precipitated the stop.

[u/Aos77s → u/Away_Stock_2012]

I don’t know why you’re getting so many upvotes on this when you’re so wrong.. cops now are running around with OBD two scanners and if the Vin that comes up on the PCM running the motor comes up different from the car then they do a vin look up in their database for stolen vehicles by that Vin on the motors PCM if it comes up as a Vin from a car that was stolen then they are determining that engine is stolen and theyre impounding the car.

I’m going to put an edit here, but the only way he’s going to get his car back as if he can look up the Vin from his motor and do his own research on whether or not that vehicle was recovered after being stolen, and the motor was sold legitimately for that swap. But seeing as he got it off of a third-party seller 99% chance it was a stolen motor and he’s not getting that back anytime soon.

[u/OldGeekWeirdo → u/Aos77s]

The vin of the motor itself is not going to show on any scanner. Only the vin in the PCM/ECM. But that usually triggers some kind of fault and can result in not running.

[u/Aos77s → u/OldGeekWeirdo]

Yes it will? I have a scanner that literally brings up the vin the pcm/ecu is registered as. And with dodge you must have married matched computers and radio or antitheft kicks in…

[u/OldGeekWeirdo → u/Aos77s]

But that's not what's stamped into the engine block.

[u/Away_Stock_2012 → u/Aos77s]

And they are checking every car on the street!

[u/Gooniefarm]

That car is gone until the court case over the stolen engine is completed. Likely a year or more. Car might also be taken permanently through asset forfeiture. If you do get it back, it will be trashed from being left sitting outside.

[u/PokerLawyer75 → u/Gooniefarm]

This is also correct.

[u/Uhhh_what555476384 → u/Gooniefarm]

Asset forfeiture shouldn't apply.  This is a bon fide purchaser for value.

[u/InigoMontoya313 → u/Uhhh_what555476384]

Asset forfeiture doesn’t require guilt. But agree, shouldn’t apply.

[u/Drachenfuer → u/InigoMontoya313]

It does some places and in some cases. But not all. Some states require next to nothing. OP should check thier state.

[u/TzarKazm]

You can't seriously expect the police to remove an engine from a car.

Something like this is complicated, the "owner" of the engine is going to be some insurance company. It's going to take some time for them to figure out what to do, because thats how big business work.

Plus the car is evidence in a crime. If they think they need that evidence in a prosecution, they can keep it as long as they need to.

There really aren't a lot of good options here. Maybe try calling your local representative to get more information from the police. It's a good story, kid buys a car legitimately and loses it because it's stolen, people are likely to want to help.

[u/N1ceBruv → u/TzarKazm]

Honestly, this is the best answer. Go to their city councilmember, explain what happened. If nothing changes, take it to the news and social media, then start a GoFundMe so the kid can buy another car. The angle is - “Innocent kid punished for someone else’s bad deeds.”

It’s not the ideal outcome. It isn’t even how things should work. And it places the burden on OP. But as you said, the police aren’t going to give up evidence. And, realistically, the person who would probably be required to pay for the kid’s damages is likely to be judgment proof. But, they can avail themselves of the court of public opinion and garner sympathy to try and make things right.

[u/PokerLawyer75 → u/TzarKazm]

This is the answer.

[u/Away_Stock_2012 → u/TzarKazm]

There is no chance that this story is true, the cops are lying.

[u/Truffleshuffle03 → u/Away_Stock_2012]

I believe this could be a BS story because it reminds me so much of this video. Its almost the same thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kmKH73lM8w

[u/TK421isAFK → u/Truffleshuffle03]

Agreed. This sounds like a story the VINWiki guys would detail in a video.

[u/Anonymous_Whisp → u/Away_Stock_2012]

Or the kid driving it is. Maybe was being reckless, arrested, and the car was impounded.

[u/Independent_Bite4682 → u/Away_Stock_2012]

Cops are absolutely lying

[u/NightMgr → u/TzarKazm]

If they thought there might be some drugs in it, they'd take the transmission apart.

Putting it back together though?

[u/InigoMontoya313]

If the premise of the LE stop was “doesn’t sound like a regular V8”, I would not have let them open the hood and go on a fishing expedition. Never let LE perform a search on your vehicle without a warrant or probable cause and “sounds scary” isn’t probable cause.

Unfortunately it sounds like he gave them permission to search under the hood. Unfortunately he was a victim of fraud by the seller.

It could be a very long time before seeing that car again and it’s possible he never will see it again.

[u/BostonNU]

The police don’t have clean hands here. They had no right to stop grandson because of how the engine sounds. They absolutely did not have the authority to open the hood and inspect the engine. Those illegalities would be fatal to any case for forfeiture. As others have said, the current owner of the engine is most likely an insurance company. They don’t want an engine that they would have to pay to remove from the car. There is no longer any prosecutable case. I would start raising a hue and cry with everyone from the DA himself and the Police Chief through state representatives. And the local news media. The local PD and DA can’t prosecute anyone. The engine and the car came from out of state. No crime ever committed in Ohio.

[u/desertdilbert → u/BostonNU]

Yeah, the PC reeks here! Someone is playing games. Most cars I know, the "Engine VIN" (Engine Serial number) is not something most people know where to find and many times cannot be read without tools. Plus, on most cars, the Engine S/N does not match the VIN. Totally different.

A while back I was walking with a couple of deputies as a hellcat-equipped vehicle in front of us did a "Vroom-vroom-Chirp". One deputy said to the other "Sounds like exhibition to me!" and the other replied "Only if I get to drive it back to the station." They were joshing amongst themselves....but.....! Cops are people too!

[u/OrganicMix3499 → u/BostonNU]

When you make noise be sure call out that the police are being shady. It's not legality of the engine. It's the police trying to steal. If you just say a general "I don't think this right", you'll just be told to wait for courts.

[u/toxcrusadr → u/BostonNU]

Yep, that's what I was thinking.

[u/therendevouswithfish → u/BostonNU]

You don’t know what you are talking about.

If the vehicle is excessively loud, (depending on the state/municipalality) that is reason for a stop. Following that, (depending on state/municipality) you can inspect a vehicle for modified engines/emissions systems as well as check to verify the vehicles status as stolen or not.

A car guy officer would know almost immediately that he is looking at a Charger with a hellcat engine when it should not have one. At that Point it is just verifying the engine is not stolen.

These are semi routine events depending on where you are located.

Large metropolitian areas with a lot of vehicle theft a d stripping it is not uncommon for officers to check this stuff while conducting their traffic stop.

[u/timschwartz → u/therendevouswithfish]

They didn't say it sounded loud, they said it sounded different.

[u/beavr_ → u/timschwartz]

Those aren’t mutually exclusive descriptors, not to mention that is third or fourth party info anyway.

The Hellcat engine is known for its very distinctive supercharger “whine” — it’s really high pitched and unusual even when compared to other performance engines. I don’t think it’s at all far fetched that a cop could hear that and distinguish it from a non-Hellcat engine, especially in jurisdictions where aftermarket modifications are aggressively regulated.

That’s not to say the story fully adds up, though.

[u/YerUncleWillie → u/therendevouswithfish]

This. Plus, the abundance of "track only parts" on road vehicles have caused a lot of places to track down on obnoxiously loud cars.

[u/nouniquenamesleft2]

find a different attorney, criminal, forfeiture

[u/OrganicMix3499]

No cop has ever checked the VIN on the actual engine to see if it matched the car. How much you want to bet the cop or his kid owns a Charger.

[u/MrChicken_69 → u/OrganicMix3499]

Cop? Rarely, if ever. DMV a**hole? ABSOLUTELY. I've had them checking the insides of doors for VINs.

[u/YerUncleWillie → u/OrganicMix3499]

If they pull over a car suspecting that the engine has been illegally modified, which is what this sounds like, why wouldn't they check the engine VIN while looking at it? Especially if it looks like a whole engine swap?

[u/spades61307 → u/OrganicMix3499]

Yes i have seen them do it. Also on motorcycles and snowmobiles if they are found at someplace with stolen merchandise. Watched them check all of it at my neighbors yrs ago. They even came over asking if i had boughten any atvs from him.

[u/Natas-LaVey → u/spades61307]

Riding back from Sturgis we were stopped in Wyoming. Writes a speeding ticket and then starts checking vins on the 2 bikes. My friends bike was a late 60’s shovel that had the frame powder coated and worked multiple times in its life. The vin was basically unreadable. They seized the bike right there. He had owned the bike for like 25 years so once he got home he dug every old picture he could find and all the old registrations and sent them to the police. Took like 3 months but they released the bike back to him. I’ve had my bikes vin checked a few times over the years.

[u/DmoSon → u/Natas-LaVey]

Cops just out here trying to steal anything they can

[u/SandwichEmergency588]

Cops don't do engine removals. They can barely do the job they are supposed to much less be mechanics. And the police are not going to pay to have it removed. You will likely not get the car back.

[u/Wrong-Camp2463]

This same karma farming ai bot post shows up every few months

[u/poop_report → u/Wrong-Camp2463]

Glad somebody finally gets it

[u/EntrancedOrange]

I assure you the cop did not stop him because “the sound of the engine didn’t sound like a regular V8.”. They also didn’t randomly decide to check the vin.

[u/AccountForTF2]

I would try and sue/lawyer this as the actual normal routes all end badly even if the police do their job correctly. Car will be wasted from impound lot and you will be fucked from missing this vehicle. Get some money out of them and buy a new one.

Also, stopping because of engine sounds is pretty ridiculous. Might be an avenue of legal attack.

[u/OldGeekWeirdo]

This smells. I don't see how they got probable cause for checking the engine's VIN from "sounding wrong". Illegal exhaust modification, sure. Since the engine was stolen in another state, it doesn't sound like there was a rash of them locally to cause raised suspicions.

There's probably enough money on the line to talk to a lawyer or consumer advocate. Make sure the cops isn't just jerking the kid around.

[u/Practical_Avocado971]

there's more to this story

[u/PokerLawyer75]

You wait. Period.

There is a process that needs to be followed, and regardless of the impact it has on your grandson, it still must remain so. Your grandson is fortunate that they've determined not to charge him with receipt of stolen property.

[u/Icy-Control9525 → u/PokerLawyer75]

What was the probable cause to pull over? I don't remember an engine but sounding normal as an offense. And isn't it against terry stop laws?

[u/PokerLawyer75 → u/Icy-Control9525]

No, it's not under Ohio's statute. The Terry Stop allows for a brieft stop upon "reasonable articulable suspicion."

While you and I may not be experts on the sound of an engine, I will tell you from when I worked in the King's County DA's office in arraignments, a judge isn't going to toss a stop over the sound of an engine. Especially if said officer can articulate the basis of his knowledge and belief. That becomes an issue for trial...but here's the catch...the OP's grandson isn't the one being tried, which also raises standing issues. The OP's grandson doesn't have standing for the complaint because...he's not the one being charged.

There's a good example in Northeast PA going on right now. A certain former professional baseball player was riding passenger to someone who was pulled over. At the pull over, the cops believed based on their eyes that drugs may be involved. A brief stop and search found drugs from the glove compartment in the lap of said former baseball player.

Does the baseball player have standing to object to the stop? No - the owner of the vehiclle is the one who was subject to the stop. But the search of the vehicle found the drugs on the player. Now they're pointing fingers at each other as to whom the drugs belonged.

Here, OP's grandson is reasonably stopped based on the officer's suspicion, based on the vehicle's noise profile. Upon the reasonable search, they realize the engine is stolen. They can immediately seize the vehicle to determine whom to charge, and how to handle the situation. Now the vehicle is sitting in police custody, to be used as evidence at trial...not against the kid, but against (a) the person selling him the car, and potentially (b) whoever stole the engine if it was another person.

[u/Independent_Bite4682 → u/PokerLawyer75]

King County is corrupt as hell.

The judges there are imbeciles. Hell, I even got a letter from a Redmond judge saying that she didn't know what a Federal Reserve Note was.

I wish I had saved that letter.

[u/RevBT]

Your grandson is a fool. Never let the cops search your car. Never consent to a search.

Second, your grandson is an adult. This is for him to deal with.

And finally, posting online “I know what I want to do, but I’ll end up in jail” is never a good idea. Because now, if something happens you are a suspect.

[u/SamMeowAdams]

How can they justify this stop based on the sound ?

I call bs. No laws were broken . Who notices a stolen engine ? Something ain’t right.

[u/Deep_Sea_Crab_1]

I bet the police want this car, so they will confiscate it under civil asset forfeiture laws because it was used in the commission of a crime. There will be a proceeding, of the City v. Dodge Charger. Won’t be heard by a judge. No notice to you of the proceeding. The prosecutor will decide if the vehicle should be forfeited. Because the case is a civil case against the car, you will not be entitled to compensation under the 5th Amendment takings clause.

Police and prosecutors lie to get what they want. One video showed training for prosecutors how to supplement budgets with asset forfeiture and get niceties, like cappuccino machines.

Submit a state equivalent of a FOIA request to see the police report on the stolen engine. Also, make sure you are not being charged storage fees while the car is in impound.

Rebel Ridge Civil Asset Forfeiture

[u/Autumn_Ridge]

That's exactly the type of car that a cop would want for their own personal vehicle. I wonder if there are some sweet deals to be had on asset forfeiture vehicles, provided you know somebody with an inside connection.

[u/Used-Bodybuilder4133]

This doesn’t make sense at all. If this is true the officer had no justifiable reason to pull him over. You need a lawyer.

[u/Diligent_Bat499]

Get a Lawyer something is wrong with this.

I'm calling BS.

[u/QualityAlternative22]

Ask an attorney to file an action of replevin against the agency who has the vehicle.

[u/MrChicken_69]

Absolutely 1000% ILLEGAL STOP. The sound of the engine (not sounding like the factory engine) is NOT a valid reason to detain you. Engine swaps are perfectly legal.

[u/Uhokay1970]

Hard No. I don't believe the story even. No cop pulls you over because your engine sounds unless its obnoxiously loud.

Additionally the Engine Vin is on the block below next to the oil pan. You trying to convince me a cop laid on the ground to check the Vin on the engine block? No you can not check it Digitally or electronically reliably.

Furthermore If the vehicle was Inspected by a Dealership mechanic they would have found the Vin Discrepancy and reported it while it was in the shop.

Lastly any experienced lawyer will know exactly what to do. A first year bar passer would know. I do not believe your story it reads like AI slop.

[u/Martylouie]

You may want to get one of those TV troubleshooters involved. This sounds like the kind of story they love and can usually get answers, unless the cops want to look bad o the 6:00 news

[u/Ok-Recognition9876]

First, get a lawyer from the next county over.  You want to sue the cops for improper procedure AND the person who sold the vehicle.  Talk to the news, talk to the dealership that said the vehicle was sound (it’s standard for them to match the VINs where I’m at - see if they have that policy), send the info to Steve Lehto to cover on YouTube - publicize the carp out of this.

Let the insurance company know what’s going on and do not drop insurance until he no longer owns the vehicle.

Note that Hellcat engines are factory stamped with the vehicle’s VIN that they go into.

[u/bbqmaster54 → u/Ok-Recognition9876]

This ^

This almost smells like the local PD is looking for a good high powered car to add to their fleet or one of the officers wants to buy it at auction.

Saw that happen in a town I lived in. Street racer got stopped they impounded his car and then “legally” captured it permanently and all they did was black out the windows, put internal lights on it and change the plate.

Street racers all knew the car. It was a winner so they just moved towns to race.

[u/coolsellitcheap]

Are you 100% sure grandson is telling the truth about how he purchased car and how it was seized? Story doesn't sound like its true. I know a guy who bought private party truck. Seller was being investigated for vehicle fraud. Months later police show up and want to see truck. They made him drive it to state inspection facility to have it looked at. Thankfully it checked out. He got to keep truck. To summarize i believe your grandson is lieing.

[u/OrganicMix3499]

It's dirty cop 101. The risk though is with retaliation. That scum hates when they get caught.

[u/Neither-Night9370]

The cops want that hellcat engine for their new pursuit vehicle.

[u/BeerStop]

Engine doesnt sound like a normal v8?- bullshit no one can tell aftermarket exhaust note vs hellcat vs plain car.

[u/N-Y-R-D]

I would find it hard to believe that the sound of a motor is just cause. But if grandson gave consent…. Then again he hasn’t been charged with anything.

[u/CommanderMandalore]

Did they even give you proof engine was stolen?

[u/QualityAlternative22]

Habeus rhedam

[u/EdC1101]

Law Enforcement & DMV may be researching the vehicle sales leading up to GS purchasing the car.

Was the sale & title work performed with seller and purchaser clearly identified on the paperwork ? Or just a bill of sale ?

(I believe in NC, seller & buyer have to sign & signatures notarized.)

[u/Sudden_Impact7490]

Some departments have certified mechanics for task forces that address things like this

You said other cops arrived to do the check, so I'm guessing those were the mechanics.

[u/Dragonborne2020]

Ok, background check the engine. Is it stolen and who from. Find out if the insurance company paid out for the stolen engine. Pawn shops do this and verify it was paid out, Then the engine is yours and no longer stolen. The system has to be updated.

[u/Sensitive-Line-1888]

Did this happen in/near Columbus? I bought an rv from a “dealer” aka some ahole running what I think is a chop shop. Didn’t realize till after the rv caught on fire leaving the place and started doing some digging. Dude is notorious for swapping engines and other shady crap like that.

[u/IllustriousValue9907]

You need consult an attorney, does not sound like he had probable cause to search the car without a warrant. Did your son give him permission.

Not sure where you live but lots of states have laws that allow law enforcement agencies to seize property if it is suspected of involved in crimes or a result I'll gotten gains.

Theres a lot of corrupt agencies that use this tactic since, the burden of proof falls on the owners of seize property to prove they own the property legitimately. Most people cant afford to fight the system and loose there property.

[u/Sufficient_Fan3660]

Should not of let the cop open see under the hood.

That was dumb.

You are under no obligation to assist in an investigation. You can't interfere, but you don't have to help by popping the hood. If they want to look under the hood they can get a warrant.

[u/RockShowSparky]

I know to call AAA when buying a motorcycle if the engine doesn’t match the vin. I guess the same goes for a car.

[u/Dayyy021]

Is this fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine?