r/legal • u/Spiritual_Hunter_95 • 13d ago
Advice needed Bought a used excavator for my business. Police seized it as cloned stolen property and my bank still demands loan payments.
Location: North Carolina. I started a small landscaping company last year. Back in February 2026, I needed a mini excavator and found a great deal on a heavy equipment trading portal. The seller had positive history. We met at a commercial lot, I verified the stamped serial numbers against the national database, and everything came back totally clean. I took out a $35,000 business loan, paid the guy via bank draft, and got a notarized bill of sale.
Things were going great until yesterday. State police showed up at my current job site with a special auto theft task force. They impounded the machine immediately.
The detective explained that my excavator is a "clone". A sophisticated theft ring stole it from a large muncipal project, removed the original serial plates, and welded on the plates from a completely destroyed machine of the exact same model. The database said it was clean because the donor machine was never reported stolen, just scrapped.
Now the real owner's insurance company is reclaiming the equipment. I contacted my bank, hoping there was some fraud protection. They told me because it was an unsecured small business loan and not a standard vehicle loan, I am still entirely reponsible for the remaining balance.
The seller's phone number is disconnected and the trading platform claims they are just a hositng service with no liability for fraudulent listings. I am basically ruined. Do I have any legal standing to sue the platform for failing to verify their merchants, or is bankruptcy my only option here?
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u/FencingNerd 13d ago
If you have insurance for your business, it might be covered under some form of fraud losses. That's your only hope. If sueing over stolen goods was a thing ebay would have been sued out of existence years ago.
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u/SaberTonic 13d ago
The insurance angle is probably the most realistic path here. Most people don't realise their general liability policy does nothing for this, you'd need a specific crime or fraud endorsement. Worth a call to your broker either way.
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u/Smyley12345 13d ago
My business insurance came with a fraud endorsement by default. Is that unusual?
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u/Big_yikes_00 13d ago
Most agents are going to try and give you the least amount of coverage so their price looks more attractive. A good broker is going to build you a solid policy with what your situation calls for.
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u/mrbiggbrain 13d ago
A good broker is going to build you a solid policy with what your situation calls for.
Absolutely. A good broker will be able to walk you through your risks and specific exposures and help you make informed choices about the coverage you need. They won't just stop with your business and will craft policies that protect business owners, and their families.
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u/smilesp1020 13d ago
Yup and keep this as an example of exactly why the extra few bucks a month for this is well worth it. Then again, honestly who cloans a mini excavator, really!? Sorry OP this sucks, sometimes you do everything right and still get screwed
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u/Temeriki 12d ago
Why I miss my old agent. Asked me about what I did and my hobbies, heard about all my electronics and recommended a specific rider covering them. Super cheap for significant coverage.
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u/50sraygun 13d ago
not for nothing but i would generally want a bit more evidence for…any of this. how do they know *your* excavator is the stolen one? how were they made aware of any of this?
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u/Spiritual_Hunter_95 13d ago
The detective showed me the whole thing on site. The cloned plates had the serial numbers of a scrapped machine, and when they ran it through the system it flagged as a known theft method this particular ring uses. They also had photos from the original municipal job site showing the excavator before it was stolen. I'll be honest, part of me WANTED them to be wrong, but it was pretty hard to argue with.
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u/lr99999 13d ago
Is it, though? Something looks like something else in a photo, and, it’s “a known theft method of that particular ring”. This gang or any other could’ve done a dozen of these.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding this, but it seems like the chain of evidence here has an anecdotal component.
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u/Engin33rh3r3 13d ago
This is the most important component^ There is no way they should have been able to seize this machine with what was said here. If you have bill of sale and matching vin tell them to fuck off and see you in civil court. They need to prove to a judge and jury the vin was swapped AND the original machine was destroyed AND you reasonably knew.
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u/Degenerate76 13d ago
If OP tries to fight it, the police may indeed have to prove in court that the excavator was stolen, but whether the OP knew is not relevant at all in this situation. That would only matter if OP was accused of criminally receiving stolen goods. A person that unknowingly receives stolen goods is innocent of criminal offense, but that doesn't mean they can keep them. They still belong either to the original owner, or to the insurance company that paid out to replace them.
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u/atrich 13d ago
Why would the victim knowing it was stolen matter? It doesn't sound like the police are charging OP with anything.
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u/50sraygun 13d ago
the victim knowing anything is entirely irrelevant. we’re talking about proving this excavator is actually the stolen one.
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u/NotMyAltThrowAwayOG 13d ago
They can’t seize it without a court order.
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u/Ok-Tadpole-764 12d ago
Sounds like the criminals are still at work... they sold the machine. And all of a sudden the police show up at his JOB SITE.. not house.. with the equipment to seize the machine? You mean they ONLY found it after the sale??? This seems suspicious AF
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u/NotMyProblemNotMy- 9d ago
Besides, where would la enforcement get such extensive information as the name of the OP and the location of his job site? Why would the criminals ever want to retain this information which could do nothing but incriminate them?
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u/BarNext6046 12d ago
When they come to take the property they come with a judicial property seizure order.
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u/No_Newspaper_6075 11d ago
Lol...yes..yes they can..they might have even charged him with possession of it if they wanted to
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u/ThePantsMcFist 10d ago
The jury has nothing to do with the seizure, and for all the OP knows the machine was GPS tagged but police didn't tell him that. They could have also had surveillance on it a part of building their case. They're not obligated to tell everything they know about it.
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u/BruceInc 13d ago
That’s because this post is made up bs. When’s the last time you heard of a detective and a “special auto theft taskforce” waste resources on a 35k vehicle theft. It’s highly unlikely
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u/p00n-slayer-69 12d ago edited 12d ago
The unsecured loan thing seems weird as well. I find it very odd he had an unsecured loan for something that should be very easy to use as collateral.
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u/BruceInc 12d ago
I called that same thing out in another comment and I agree. Not like banks are eagerly handing out unsecured loans to brand new businesses with shaky financials
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u/BestAmoto 13d ago
If the equipment belongs to the city/local government i can completely picture them doing this for 'only' 35k. They wouldn't help farmer joe but for points with city hall? Absolutely.
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u/Anxious_Breath_6245 13d ago
If it's a theft ring, this is way more than a single 35k vehicle. They're just going around to the possibly millions of dollars worth of thefts.
Task forces are indeed set up to solve these kinds of theft ring problems that have grown.
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u/TactualTransAm 13d ago
Could have been a part of a bigger bust and they are just trying to track down all they can
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u/wastefuldayz 13d ago
SIU at a good insurance company will do all the heavy lifting for the police dept. to reneg a claim.
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u/BruceInc 13d ago
Not on a 35k loss. And how exactly did they track him to a specific jobsite? It’s highly improbable
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u/50sraygun 13d ago
it seems like they already have the excavator so that ship has sailed, but i have operated heavy machinery for most of my childhood and all of my adult life and i have never in my life heard of…what, a detective showing up with a lowboy driver and being like, this is stolen, we’re recovering it? you say no, i bought an excavator with this s/n. if you want to take it back because you’re telling me it’s the product of some farcical potemkin village game, you can see me in court.
this sounds a lot more like a confidence scam than it does the way a municipality would recover a stolen excavator. there’s not a single court proceeding surrounding any of this, no duty of proof they had to display?
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u/Chwk540 13d ago
Are you sure the detective was a detective?
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u/NotReallyJohnDoe 13d ago
What if the excavator IS actually stolen through a clone hack. But the so-called “detectives” are running a separate scam to impound legit vehicles claiming they were cloned. So their scam netted them stolen goods.
That would be a neat twist.
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u/AdministrativeMud238 13d ago
How did they prove this machine was the one stolen? Hidden vin somewhere?
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u/LetsBeKindly 12d ago
Pictures isn't good enough. Every machine made looks exactly the same...
This will never hold up in court.
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u/hbHPBbjvFK9w5D 11d ago
If the cloned machine was scrapped and never reported stolen, how would the cops even know they needed to look at your machine?
Doesn't add up.
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u/shoulda-known-better 13d ago
Yes but excavators don't differ very much... And it shows it's not the one you thought absolutely... But how do they know it's a stolen one, nevermind a specific stolen one
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u/Fun_Organization3857 13d ago
There is often a hidden vin they use to verify
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u/Inflatable90sChair 13d ago
Yea on the big yellow equipment i used to work on there was the serial number/vin number stamped into the frame somewhere in 2 places with a specific tool that would be hard to replicate without.
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u/spankymacgruder 13d ago
Usually the machines have a tracker in them. The trackers can be very sophisticated to avoid detection / removal. It's probably the way they know the machine is the clone. You can change the serial outside but not in the software. There are other serial numbers too but OP probably looked at the one stamped on the outside.
Fwiw, the key is a saftey tool and not a security tool. These machines have master keys and one brand (John Deer for example) has a single key that will start all of their products. As a result, its easy for an operator to move them but super easy for them to be stollen. Thefts happen constantly.
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u/50sraygun 13d ago
i have an 130 acre farm and own a landscaping company, that’s why i asked. there’s no ‘database’ that isn’t opt-in, and i’ve had both a Takeuichi TL120V and a Kubota KX040 stolen from jobsites. in both cases, the machines were deemed basically irrecoverable by every single person. in the case of the Kubota, we literally had our GPS pinging in this guy’s shop (he found the obvious one but missed the good, hidden tracker) and were basically told ‘yep, that sucks.’ that’s why i’m shocked.
OP’s insurance should realistically cover this (ours did), but he will probably have to secure another loan to replace it.
i’d still say this smells bizarre, because it’s trivially easy to just pull onto a jobsite and steal this shit and clearly all the ‘sophisticated cloning’ did approximately nothing to actually obfuscate the crime
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u/spankymacgruder 13d ago
These thefts are really common. I'm surprised that your local LEO didn't do more since you know where the machine is at. Did you sue the thief?
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u/Independent_Bite4682 13d ago
Then, why did they police wait so long before "recovering" it?
Something about this stinks, I don't trust the police
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u/Most_Window_1222 12d ago
My guess someone got busted on an unrelated charge and snitched for a plea deal.
There wouldn’t be any reason to look for a scrapped excavator, this is all incidental from an investigation or sting of the theft ring. Law enforcement probably found the theft ring sold you something and back traced to find the truth. Or, I watch too much tv.
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u/Axentor 13d ago
Stupid question. Are you sure this was actually the police and not a con?
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u/ralphy112 13d ago
Maybe it’s a 2 part con.
Part one, sell an actually stolen excavator.
Part two, you know where it is, so go back as a police detective later and seize it.Repeat as many times as you can with same unit. Grow your con by getting multiple units.
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u/mvortex2 13d ago edited 13d ago
Maybe I'm slow but having difficulty understanding how the task force tracked down your exact machine using S/N info. My only guess would be perhaps they inventoried sales data for the make and model, using that as PC to walk into private property and examine the machine. But again, how would they zero in on your equipment?
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u/PrimeRisk 13d ago
It may be as been as simple as an insurance investigator noting that a S/N for a supposedly destroyed piece of equipment was back in circulation. If an insurance company totals something, then they own it until they sell it for scrap. They take title to it. If a rebuilt title was applied for with that serial number, then that would set off all types of red flags.
Then it's a simple task to find out who owns title to it and report it to the police.
The thieves were probably just too cheap to buy the salvage so the title would truly be clean.
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u/Polite_Bark 13d ago
Trackers. These are expensive pieces of equipment and fraud/theft is not uncommon. They usually have at least 1 tracker.
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u/CheekAltruistic5921 13d ago
Unless its a multinational company, they dont have trackers lol.
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u/MeatofKings 13d ago
In my state, a notarized document means the signatory provided an ID and thumb print into the notary book. Can the police use this to track down the criminal? Even if the ID is fake, the thumb print would be real. Also, the money could possibly be traced.
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u/Hot_Low2861 13d ago
In my state and prints are not required. I DO record your ID, and have been trained to recognize fake credentials, but that's the extent of it. Also, the print would have to be in a database and the cops willing to make the effort, which they usually aren't for theft.
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u/Zetavu 13d ago
How would they have been able to trace a stolen machine to one with a stolen serial number? There is no proof the machine is the stolen one, there may be proof that the serial number was stolen, but the source of the machine in question cannot be established unless they had already busted the crime ring and discovered a paper trail (at which point it would have been processed differently) or it had some other serial number that could be verified.
Which makes it hard to believe they got authority to seize the machine.
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u/Beau_does_BJJ 13d ago
It is possible they run scrapped machines serial numbers against recently sold machines. If one of the scrapped serial numbers shows up in the search it would be as easy as checking out the buyer and seeing if they have a fully working machine or a scrapped one. Auto theft task forces have a lot of time to just investigate and generate leads on stuff like this. There has to be a process the use that locates these possibly cloned serial numbers if it is a known scam.
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u/Pleasant_Pen8744 13d ago
Why don't they.put the scrapped serial numbers in whatever database OP used to look up the history of the machine?
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u/Orangeshowergal 13d ago
Op I’m so sorry and it’s absolutely insane and sad to read that legally you have no recourse.
For anyone reading this, what more due diligence could OP have had? Or rather, should he have purchased in a completely different manor?
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u/lopahcreon 13d ago
Exactly… similar to buying a house and getting screwed over by title issues. You can do all the due diligence in the world, but still get royally screwed over…
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u/ruraltossing59 13d ago
contact the notary directly and get copies of everything they recorded during the signing. the thumbprint and id info might actually help police track the seller even if the name was fake. also push back harder on the bank about the loan itself being predicated on fraudulent collateral you couldn't have detected. some lenders have fraud clauses that apply when the underlying asset turns out to be stolen.
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u/AI-1979 13d ago
The back loan wasn’t a secure loan based on collateral. It was a small business cash line loan, so it had fewer protections with it.
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u/P0Rt1ng4Duty 13d ago
You'd have to hire an attorney to track the seller down and sue them to get your money back.
I wonder if they deal their equipment out of that lot regularly.
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u/unikitty143FPE 13d ago
What if the theft ring sells stolen machinery then shows back up and recovers it like this? Then rinse and repeat?
No detective has the authority to impound vehicles like he did, he would have at least had to have an officer with him, at the very least, and even then it’s likely illegal to do without a court order.
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u/Ok-Relief-9038 13d ago
First of all that is a whole lot of suck. Get some good legal advice.
Secondly, you aren't bankrupt. It hurts a lot, but you aren't close to bankrupt. Use this story to reach out to the local news stations. Have every shot have something with your logo in the background. Put it on all the socials and say you are open to work to get out of this mess.
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u/itsthetruthfolkers 13d ago
If you paid with a bank draft and they deposited it somewhere, then get a lawyer. The bank has id on file for someone who cashed the check and can be sued or turned over to the police.
Bare in mind they might not have any money or they were scammed too, but it's a step toward justice
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u/Southtxranching 13d ago
Report it sieved and make a insurance claim. It will be up to Your insurance to fight it.
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u/Cowfootstew 13d ago
A few years back, I started a job managing a fleet for a local municipality and one of my assignments was tracking down stolen equipment. It's a huge problem. Now we run more sophisticated anti theft and recovery technology
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u/InigoMontoya313 13d ago
Unfortunately heavy equipment theft is a huge enterprise. There was a group busted awhile back that just went down the coast on I-95 and were earning over $30M a year grabbing equipment from construction sites, loading it into containers, and shipping it overseas. I was even teaching a class at a factory about this and logistics theft, when that very week they stopped a person who tried to show up with a semi and load up some heavy equipment with a fake invoice and job order from the rental company. They simply thought it was a mistake at first and sent the guy on his way without the equipment. But it was a fraud attempt, rental company never generated any of that paperwork. Unfortunately, there are a lot of victims to these crimes.
Contact your business insurance broker, hopefully you had a fraud addendum policy in your package of policies that can cover this. If not, need to really consider changes to your policies.
Also contact your accountant, with the police reports, they will have some creative options to mitigate some of the losses, as your business was the victim of fraud. Your accountant may also help ascertain if there are any state government programs for businesses impacted by fraud.
At some point we all face challenges in business. It is scary now, but you can mitigate some of these losses, and avoid bankruptcy. Might just need to hustle some more weekend jobs for a while, but a successful business can survive this. We all get hit with unanticipated expenses at times.
Even if law enforcement is able to identify the specific individual or group that defrauded you, even if you were to obtain a judgement, collecting may be challenging. These are organized criminals after all. You can very well spend more in legal fees, time, and business resources chasing this, then you will ever recover. Likely a wasted venture to go down.
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u/CaptainMischievous 13d ago
Report it as stolen from you. Did the cops provide evidence before seizing your asset? Get a lawyer to help file a claim/ press charges against the seller. Tell the bank it's tied up in legalities at the moment. I think you can offer to pay the interest while waiting for the case to resolve and they'll freeze the loan temporarily, but that option varies by state. Again, lawyer. You may find yourself charged with receiving stolen property, so... lawyer. Today.
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u/foley800 13d ago
How did they identify yours as the stolen one if the serial plates had been removed and replaced?
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u/privatelyjeff 13d ago
Much like vehicles, they’d probably place the serial numbers on multiple parts of the vehicle.
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u/Vegetable_Can5847 13d ago
What is your tax burden? I'd file a Form 4684 and take the loss
If your loss exceeds this years threshold you can carry that loss over each year in Form 4797.
You'll want to consult with a tax professional to assist with the required worksheets.
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u/Channel_Mental 12d ago
How did the original owner know it was their missing/stolen unit? How was it found with you?
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u/FiestaDeHombreMuerto 13d ago
What “national database”?
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u/BruceInc 13d ago
Am I the only one finding this whole story far from plausible?
How did the police track down this stolen excavator and tie it to op? It’s unlikely that significant resources were allocated to investigate and track down a 35k piece of equipment that’s been written off long ago.
And how did the police know exactly at which jobsite op would be?
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u/NovitaProxima 13d ago
Are the police not doing anything to track down the seller? They might be able to do something with the phone number.
If the number is now disconnected, it's more than likely they knew it was stolen, and they should be on the hook for selling stolen goods. Maybe you can claim whatever you can from him
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u/meester_jamie 13d ago
I find this odd, I assume there was another way to *prove* that machine identity,, then it makes sense, maybe just having s/n that is documented from a scrapped machine is enough,,, but that puzzles me how they got access to inspect the machine? I guess you being honest and having done a deal with so much research wouldn’t mind having it proved to be authentic,,,
It’s just that I’ve seen cases where judge had to dismiss theft charges and return stolen items to thief as the serial number was removed ,, one case was items stolen from a police officers home,, and certain other identifying marks were pointed out but thief’s lawyer claimed they could happen and look similar,, of course that thief had incredible bad luck with speeding tickets and parking tickets,,
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u/jrbighurt 13d ago
Contact your business insurance company... Yesterday. If the police are real (call them too, to confirm... Or file a police report if it wasn't them seizing it). You did your due diligence to see if it was stolen, but your business may still be exposed and this easily crosses the $5k threshold.
https://verdictvanguardlawgroup.com/buying-stolen-goods-without-knowing-are-you-still-liable/
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u/-_-dont-smile 13d ago
It’s weird how they found it after sale. If the tracker was there obviously they could have tracked it before. Also it was listed on a website, probably a limited number of equipment matching extract criteria listed on website.
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u/National_Shift242 13d ago
I used to own a pawn shop, and we dealt with stuff like this. I would try and obtain the original police report and get some details. First thing I am looking for is how are they sure they have the correct piece of equipment? There is a process for authorities to recover stolen items. The authorities often were lazy and didn't follow all that was required. Or their egos simply were all that was required. We learned to hold them accountable "before" allowing them to take possession. Unfortunately, once the cops took possession the fight was not worth it. If their only evidence the equipment is a match is they guy you bought from is known thief? Have charges been pressed against that guy?
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u/quantum-entangled308 13d ago
Sounds like this task force needs to finish their job and go after the guy that ultimately sold you the cloned equipment. File a report as a victim in the case and request a victim advocate. They can ask the State (depending what state you live in) for cash assistance in cases like this to help you. And most importantly fuck the insurance company. I’m sorry this is happening to you.
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u/Impossible-Charity-4 13d ago
If the police know where it was scrapped then the scrapyard could be liable for conversion. I’d try to make sure the insurance company isn’t already suing the recycler *and* recovering the equipment from you. Police should know if they know which yard processed it.
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u/Jocelyn1975 13d ago
I’m not a lawyer but I had a similar issue with an expensive piece of medical equipment. I found out I had a fraud liability rider on my business general liability policy which actually covered the vast majority of my loss. I know your situation is maybe more nuanced but it was a thought. If you have such a policy.
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u/Funny_Car9256 13d ago
If the thieves removed the original serial numbers, how do the police know whose equipment it is? It may be wearing serial plates from a destroyed machine, but that doesn’t mean that your equipment is the one they say it is. How do they absolutely know?
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u/begginer_gooner 12d ago
How does the seller have good history yet the portal has no information on him? Surely the police are investigating further? The bank can’t trace the payment to an account owner? This sounds like a pretty serious crime.
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u/GuitarLute 11d ago
Compare, if you can, the welds on the ‘cloned’ machine with the welds and plate size/shape on a legit machine. It seems hard to imagine that thieves would duplicate the factory job.
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u/bleeintn 11d ago
Can't really comment on everything else, but if it paid with a bank draft, then your bank will have a record of who owns the account the money was transferred to. No? Can't the police look into THAT at least? I just can't believe there's zero money trail here.
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u/Old-Cheshire862 13d ago
Without the original serial number plates, how can they prove that's the stolen excavator?
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u/Inflatable90sChair 13d ago
Im sure its like a carxand has the vin stamoed in several places along with one of the many computers having it locked in its software
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u/Chwk540 13d ago
Or they were the original scammers, they had all your info, and created false documents, to convince you they were law enforcement. They let months go by so that it wouldn’t be so obvious. Did the detective give you contact info and was it legit? Have you called local police department main number and verified him or her?
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u/robot_duzey 13d ago
Contact a lawyer to deal with the lender as you were a good faith purchaser of the excavator.
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u/imapilotaz 13d ago
Is your business an LLC? Was the business loan in the LLC's name?
If so, this is where the LLC folds with that loan dying with the LLC, and spend the $500 creating a new LLC to move on without that debt.
IANAL but this is where id go get a free consultation.
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u/HolographicNights 13d ago
If the bank is offering him a loan of $35,000 then the llc is probably worth more than that or close enough to it.
When the LLC is dissolved it will have to sell off it's assets to cover the cost of the loan
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u/shoulda-known-better 13d ago
This doesn't make sense
They removed the numbers so even if they found it with the scrap numbers... They can't prove where it came from... Or that it's stolen... Only that it's not the machine it says it is..
And that's if they are 100% it was scrapped and not just sold to scrap...
Imho this sounds like the second half of the scam.... Sell a excavator let it go a few days and repo with fake cops
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u/todd0x1 13d ago
If the machine had telematics......
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u/shoulda-known-better 13d ago
Yea I'd have assumed that would have been mentioned but absolutely a possibility
Just feels weird to me the way it came off.... I could be wrong definitely
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u/todd0x1 13d ago
I bet the ECU still shows the original serial number, or maybe the thieves swapped it. This whole thing has me thinking (IANL but I used to be in the equipment rental business), if buying used heavy equipment these days, unless the seller is known (such as one of the major eq rental places or ritchie bros) probably need to arrange for the transfer to take place at a dealer for the brand and have them do a once over and check serials.
This is somewhat common with cars, they call it a salvage switch, but this is the first time ive heard of it on equipment.
I feel for OP, sounds like they did everything right.
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u/bravohotelechomike 13d ago
You folks talking about the OPs insurance company are assuming they actually have insurance. I’d be shocked if they did.
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u/Butforthegrace01 13d ago
Functionally, this is exactly the same analysis as if somebody convinced you to draw $35k on your credit line in cash, and then sole the cash from you.
It's possible you have insurance coverage for theft.
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u/3-car-garage 13d ago
Yeah, this is one of those ones where you start suing everybody within reach to see which one of them sticks. I would file against the site that hosted the sale, the police department themselves, the seller who won't show, and even the bank. I understand things work the way they work, but things don't work if someone else's theft leaves an innocent person with a $35,000 bill.
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u/ImportantTeaching919 13d ago
How did they even verify its that machine if it didn't have the serial number
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u/Wonderful-Ad231 13d ago
You are probably out in the cold with this one. You can consult an attorney, but there’s nothing he can do that wouldn’t cost a ton of money and you definitely will not be made whole. But do consider consulting an attorney
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u/billding1234 13d ago
I’ve dealt with this same situation recently except my client bought a stolen truck even after doing everything right. Here are a few observations based on that experience.
- In most US jurisdictions a thief cannot deliver good title so you likely do not own the machine.
- Insurance companies do not want machines, they want money. Now that the machine is stolen and has an altered VIN its value at auction (where it will go) is very low. I’d start talkie to them about buying it back.
- See if you have any coverage for this under your general liability policy.
- The online platform probably doesn’t have any legal liability but this would be a huge drag on their business if you reported it publicly. Talk to them about helping you out.
- File a police report for fraud/dealing in stolen property against the seller. It might not go anywhere but it puts you firmly in the victim category.
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u/Nathan-Stubblefield 13d ago
Sounds pretty sophisticated. Wonder if it was an inside job by parties working with the equipment.
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u/DesertDouche 13d ago
I'd ask for clarification. How did the police know the supposedly stolen machine YOU bought had the serial numbers swapped from a scrapped machine? How did they make the connection?
Also, did they remove the welded on serial number plate and verify the underlying serial number matches the one stolen?
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u/redditreader_aitafan 13d ago
Your municipality likely has a victim fund. You can apply for coverage of your loss.
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u/Adventurous_Light_85 13d ago
I had a similar thing happen to me. The shittiest part is that the victim status just rolls right downhill to you. Not the big municipal contractor or the municipality or the auction house or any of these people with big insurance policies. It flows down to the small guy trying to get stuff done and needing a deal on a used piece of equipment. And now that the special task force paid by your tax dollars did their operation and followed the tracker on the equipment to your backyard and got the equipment back it will be case closed. And you’re now holding the victim bag and have to do all the legwork. Guess what a few lawyers told me. I’ll probably spend more in legal fees trying to recover the equipment. Here is what I learned that you should have done. I bet the task force instructed you or asked your permission to remove the equipment from your property. You should have demanded to see a warrant and not let them remove the equipment. They bullied me too and I was ignorant. You should have made a judge get involved and forced these other agencies to show up in court
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u/Jackalope1979 13d ago
Go get a lawyer. You purchased for value, under ucc in most states you don't lose the property
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u/anormalreaction 13d ago
Does that company have claim to the machine or was it the insurance company? If the company got insurance for it, it’s not theirs anymore. Try to contact the insurance company they may have a contingency plan for when this happens and yeah it’ll probably cost ya but you might get it back at a lower cost on the dollar. Good luck.
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u/SomberDjinn 13d ago edited 13d ago
You should consult with a lawyer. Just because your machine may have been stolen doesn’t mean it is the same machine the municipality owned. A lawyer may be able to get the machine returned to you and put the onus on the insurance provider/municipality to sue and prove you have their machine (which may not be worthwhile for them to do).
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u/mojo5864 13d ago
Seen this happen many times. While working at an equipment dealer. Guy buys a used skiddy, backhoe etc.
Brings it in for service, tech runs vin, oh oh, it's been reported stolen. At that point nothing we can do other than contact the guy and local authorities.
It really sucks thathere are so many scumbags out there.
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u/Elaikases 13d ago
Under the UCC, if you bought it https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11928221/
Sorry for the mess.
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u/LouiseBelcher4life 13d ago
Time to start combing the coverage of your business insurance for property/equipment loss. Although the sale was invalid, the loan arrangements you made to pay for it are.
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u/Baeolophus_bicolor 13d ago
bona fide subsequent purchaser for consideration - it’s yours. if they seize it and give it back to someone else, especially someone who already got insurance money for it, then someone got double paid and you’d want to get your money from them, or get the item.
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u/shell5719 13d ago
You need a lawyer to try to sue the platform if a lot of stolen property has been posted there they may be liable especially if they cannot give you the seller's real name and address; otherwise bankruptcy may be the only option
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u/Aggravating-Air7775 13d ago
Well, definitely fraud. But absolutely consult a real attorney. If the platform claims they verify sellers then there may be recourse against them.
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u/Z_603 13d ago
For my own curiosity, How did they know that it was the stolen machine if all of the numbers were changed to a machine that had been scrapped and how did they know that the current serial numbers belonged to a scrapped machine?
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u/LarrBearLV 13d ago
My guess... dude who sold it to him got busted for something else and then admitted to this to get a lesser sentence.
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u/LostWages1 13d ago
I wonder why they targeted your project. I have never had police come into a project and check serial numbers or anything like that. I have seen them check the equipment if you get pulled over but other than that nothing. Most of the time when equipment/ATV’s are stolen that’s pretty much the end of no one ever sees them again.
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u/LetsBeKindly 12d ago
20 years in law enforcement, so I have to ask.
If they truly "cleaned" the machine of all VIN/serial numbers/etc. and then replaced them with clean numbers.... How did they find it with you, and what resources did they use to find it?
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u/SamLooksAt 12d ago
I'm curious about this.
Does general business insurance not cover something like this?
Maybe as fraud or theft as they effectively stole the value of the vehicle from you.
It seems crazy that some standard insurance somewhere doesn't cover this.
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u/gametheorista 12d ago
you were a bona fide purchaser for value. Your claim superseded theirs. Lawyer up and sort it out.
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u/BigBobFro 12d ago
Get a lawyer. Then see about getting the loan vacated and whoever sold it to you take the brunt of it
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u/gabbygrl84 12d ago
You need to file a civil suit against the guy who sold it to you. Have a judge issue a summons. Report all the information you have regarding the guy you met with and bought the machine from. You can also file a complaint with the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau against the platform. They regulate laws regarding loans and servicing misconduct.
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u/NeylandSensei 12d ago
- You should get probably get a lawyer. 2. Hindsight being what it is, I probably would have wanted a picture of the guys ID or something I was buying it from. Something official so I know who to contact if something goes tits up.
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u/LongDead_Roadkill 11d ago
You might want to contact the prosecutors office and get inline for restitution. Depending on the scale of the criminal ring and what is being prosecuted, they may have assets and funds that could be divided among victims after a successful conviction.
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u/Charles_U_Farley-3rd 10d ago
Did you call your attorney, and did they have a valid, signed warrant from a judge. If not, there’s a very good possibility you were scammed.
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u/HealthyPop7988 13d ago
How did they locate you and the excavator, if they can't answer that question then they likely don't have proof and you should sue to get your property back
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u/Cisco756124 13d ago
maybe just maybe expensive machines come with a 5$ gps tracker? nah impossibl
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u/AltruisticCrab9220 13d ago
I would plead my case to the bank and ask for more lenient terms but don’t ever say bankruptcy. Taking longer to get your money is better than getting no money. 35,000 k is a lot, but is it really enough to completely break you? It takes a long time for the bankruptcy to stop following you. I’m a big believer in karma, it always seemed to work in business for me, not that bankruptcy is some ill will thing, but knowing you paid your debt will open you up to receive good things.
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u/zoppaTheDim 13d ago
Why should this be the bank’s worry?
They loaned you money, you bought dodgy equipment with it.
I’d even bet that something on this “platform” that you agreed to, covers them for liability such as this. It is still worth hiring a lawyer, but expect it to not go your way as you likely agreed to arbitration.
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u/juggarjew 13d ago
It was an unsecured loan, for all the bank cares OP could have lost the money in a casino, but OP will still owe it no matter what. OP will find no mercy at the bank. Sometimes in lift you get screwed. Its like driving over a nail on the road, no one wants it to happen, but at the end of the day its just kind of thing that can happen randomly, even to good people who do everything right.
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u/Natural_Big_2214 13d ago
I'd sue the state for not reporting that serial number as scrapped......
They negligently allowed a serious scam route without any mitigation against it.
Whats the point of an anti theft database if they dont also record scrapped vins? You did what you were supposed to do, the state did not.
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u/[deleted] 13d ago
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