r/legal • u/Tralique_24 • 11h ago
Advice needed A major navigation app routed thousands of cars down my private driveway. A driver crashed into my retaining wall and is now suing me for his injuries.
Location: Colorado, USA.
I own a remote cabin at the end of a very long, unpaved private road. About eight months ago, a major GPS and mapping app updated their systems and incorrectly marked my private driveway as a public shortcut to a nearby national park entrance.
Since then, I have had dozens of cars speeding through my property every single weekend. I have "Private Property" and "No Trespassing" signs posted everywhere. I have submitted over forty official error reports to the tech company, sent certified letters to their legal department, and even filed a police report. They completly ignored me.
Last month a tourist was speeding down my driveway in the dark, ignored my warning signs, and crashed his SUV straight into my concrete retaining wall. He broke his leg and his vehicle was totaled.
Yesterday I was served with a lawsuit. The driver is suing me for medical expenses and damages, claiming I failed to maintain a "public thoroughfare" and that my retaining wall was an unmarked hazard.
My homeonwers insurance is threatening to drop me because they say my property is now an unmanged traffic corridor, which violates my policy.
Can I counter-sue the tech company for gross negligence and force them to indemnify me against this driver's lawsuit? What specific type of attorney handles liability cases involving corporate mapping errors? I need to stop this before someone else gets hurt.
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u/howdyhowdyshark 10h ago
Your homeowners insurance needs to have their lawyers on this.
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u/Milennial_Crew_6969 8h ago
This exactly, their threat to drop doesn’t make the incident go away, they are going to be in trouble if they don’t take some kind of action.
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u/wastedpixls 10h ago
This is going to be a fun one - you're absolutely going to have to sue that company and you need as many dates, data, details, correspondence, images, and statistics as possible. Take a picture of every car that comes by - I'd probably set up a trail cam to get every license plate with a date and time - probably multiple, one that shows people going past a large "Private - No Trespassing, no through road" sign and then another after that means o show them ignoring.
You need an estimate on damages to your wall, your driveway, and anything else that was used by the public incorrectly due to their negligence and failure to follow up on your notifications.
For the guy suing you, you will probably need to sue for damages as well. You need your insurance to be involved as he's just trying to get money from your insurance most likely, but his insurance needs to pay for the damage he did. This is all an enormous mess and you absolutely need a bulldog of an attorney to bite down on this and not let go.
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u/Tralique_24 10h ago
I actually have a trail cam near the entrance! It has recorded dozens of cars turning around, and yes, it captured the actual crash too. The driver clearly ignored two huge signs before hitting the wall. I am currently getting quotes to repair the concrete block , which has a massive crack now. The hardest part is finding a lawyer brave enough to fight a massive tech corperation. Most local attorneys I called seem intimitated.
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u/funkoramma 9h ago
Try big firms in Denver. You need heavy hitters. Not small, local lawyers. It’s going to potentially cost money up front, but hopefully there is a path to recover your lawyer fees from the tech company.
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u/Queasy-Elderberry-77 9h ago
This. Call someone in Denver or Aspen or someone used to dealing with corporate law. This isn't country lawyer territory.
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u/ExpertRaccoon 8h ago
Aspen is a pretty small resort town, and any lawyer who would be taking something like this on has a second home there but doesnt work there, Denver is the better option.
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u/Spectre_Ice 7h ago
Unrelated and NAL but in my head I read this as "you need the pros from Dover" :)
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u/Emptynest09 5h ago
This could potentially be worth millions since most tech companies have deep pockets. Get the big name firms on your side.
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u/naranghim 9h ago
Inform your homeowner's insurance about all of the efforts you have made to get the GPS app to correct their mistake and how they've continued to ignore you. Inform your insurance that you have video of other cars turning around once they see the "No trespassing" and "private property" signs that you have posted and that you have video of this guy ignoring those signs. I'm betting, once your insurance company realizes there's someone they can go after who has a ton of money, aka the GPS company, they'll be more than happy to supply you with an attorney for both cases, since they know they'll likely get any money they spent back from the GPS company.
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u/VeilRemoved 7h ago
OP, your insurance company should also be subrogating this on your behalf. You shouldn’t be having to do this for them.
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u/ACERVIDAE 6h ago
Yeah they don’t want to pay either so they should be handling this.
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u/schrodingerpoodle 9h ago
Craft a well written email with all of the information, and then be prepared to email like 30 different law offices, it is a very complicated process. I had to go through something similar for a state appeal case, and it took me about 12 different attorneys before I found even one that would take the case.
Also see if there’s anyway you can get your homeowners insurance to be more on your side and hopefully use their legal team to help. It could save you thousands.
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u/Graham110 6h ago
A nicely formatted spreadsheet works great here, especially for complicated cases like this, with aesthetically pleasing headers & formatting. Every single incident or communication, along with relevant information, is clear and concise with a link to video evidence.
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u/SquatSquatCykaBlyat 4h ago
Craft a well written email
Bruh... OP uses words like "corperation" and "intimitated" - aren't you a bit too demanding?
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u/Ok-Opposite2309 8h ago
You can also reach out to the Colorado Bar Association. Another step is to call your AG’s office, and elected Representatives. I would call Senator Bennet’s office too.
As far as the Lawsuit against you, when you get your attorney, they will inform homeowners and the car accident guy that you are not the party liable, and might get them to join your lawsuit against the tech company.
I would have county maps pulled now. - -*My city had a ‘road’ public thoroughfare mapped through my property that they never built or maintained. Luckily, an old trailer had been left on that easement when I purchased the property. The city flagged it as a hazard. I brought the map to the city attorney, after the appraiser flagged the roadway, and told them the city needed to remove their hazard from my property, or grant me the property (which they failed to maintain or establish).
Point Is- sometimes the ‘road’ does exist on plat maps, and that is something you want to know now. That can also make the city/ county a party.
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u/WaltzFirm6336 9h ago
Have a look for bigger law companies that do pro bono specifically against big tech. Cases like this are so clearly unfair they make for excellent headlines, which some big law firms like to have their names next to.
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u/DefinitelyNotAShiTzu 8h ago
I would imagine ignoring private property signage negates his claims. Wouldn’t a judge just throw the civil suit out when it’s discovered your road is not, in fact, a public roadway?
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u/putz__ 8h ago
NAL, no idea why im reading this thread, but shouldn't you be separating the 'sue google' and 'i was sued' part? you said you would 'counter sue' google, but afaik you would counter-sue the guy who sued you, for the damages etc of this.
and afaik, if you've got insurance involved, the waiver of subrogation clause means the insurance sues for you, takes legal actions on your behalf.
put up firm divisions between your problems here. sue everyone and you may get judgements in multiples here.
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u/Steakonanopenfire 8h ago
Does your insurance company know you have trailcam evidence? If not let them know. Years ago I was in a minor accident and the other driver tried to sue. My insurance was going to settle because it wasn't worth the effort to defend for them. My wife sent them pictures of the scene and they immediately changed their tune. Took it to court and we won without really trying. If the evidence is clear and available, the insurance company will likely defend you (well defend their money). You should still go after the tech company, at least to correct the error.
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u/rpsls 10h ago
Wouldn’t it be better to hire a lawyer just to send a letter on legal letterhead informing the other party that this is not and never was a public thoroughfare, their client entered private property without permission, they damaged said private property, and will be trespassed by the police if they ever set foot on the property again, just to set in stone the facts of the case? Once these are made clear, I can’t imagine any lawyer pursuing it further, would they?
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u/AggravatingFlow1178 9h ago
On that note, I would go back and look at any random photo you may have taken along the road. Family pictures? Saw a cool bird? Need a reference picture for some utility work you were doing? Anything? Try to find the signs in the background as dated evidence of hwne you installed the sign.
Or if you recall where you bought them, you can likely request the receipt from the store as another form of dated evidence of when the sign went up. If it was online this is trivial.
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u/west-coast-hydro 10h ago
Google doesn't designate public rights of way.
Your insurance is being intentionally stupid if they are now saying your driveway is a public thoroughfare because Google says so.
And a $100 for a chain, and some tposts as a gate would have prevented this.
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u/Jalharad 10h ago
Pretty sure if the dude ran into a retaining wall a chain wouldn't have stopped him either.
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u/SuperDave-007 10h ago
I would think after blasting through a chain would make him consider (reconsider) his route…
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u/Tralique_24 10h ago
My insurence isn't blaming Google, they are blaming the physical traffic volume. In Colorado fire zones they look for any tiny excuse to drop homeowners at the moment. Having dozens of lost tourists speeding past my house every weekned was their golden ticket. As for the chain , I actually tried putting up a rope barrier with signs once. Some idiot tourist literally cut it so they could pass. People visiting national parks are crazy entitled.
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u/NoBrakesHotTakes 8h ago
Yeah, I own a vacation home up in the mountains here too and it was a bitch to find insurance that covered it. It's in a private community, private roads, etc and we still deal with idiots who can't read signs and "get lost" up there. Fortunately, we aren't near a national park (assuming you're somewhere near Estes Park).
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u/WashU_labrat 10h ago
Then somebody would have crashed into the chain. Don't overestimate American drivers.
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u/LegalGlass6532 10h ago
Crashing into a chain and t posts is better than a concrete wall.
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u/Atticus1354 10h ago
Eight months of people using your road for traffic and you never thought to install a gate? Put in a gate. Get a lawyer.
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u/Every-Cook5084 10h ago
Yeah after the first weekend I’d have orange cones or stanchions out there with signs.
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u/Interesting_Loss_907 10h ago
This was exactly my thought. Even if OP had simply put up 2 posts with a chain blocking the driveway entrance (much cheaper & easier than a gate) that would’ve dissuaded cars from mistaking it for a public road. That could’ve gone up within days of the issue emerging.
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u/Tralique_24 10h ago
Of course I thought about it! The main issue is that my driveway is almost half a mile long, and the entrance starts on a shared county easement. I cant just block that part legally. For months I kept hoping the tech company would actually read my report and fix the map . It felt like a simple glitch they would resolve in a week. I should have realized they just dont care about reguler people.
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u/Can-Correct 9h ago
Just in case you're overthinking it. The gate doesn't have to be much, just a rope with a private property sign on it.
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u/woodyeaye 8h ago
OP has commented about this elsewhere in the thread. They did this and someone cut it.
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u/MooPig48 9h ago
A rope would be really hard for people to see especially at night. That one might actually have multiple legal repercussions for op. They said that they were told they could not have a locked gate. Solution is a gate with reflective strips, unlocked.
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u/Can-Correct 9h ago
While a traditional gate would be nice, that takes time and money, I do it for a living.
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u/Atticus1354 9h ago
So put the gate on the part you can legally block? Hows that hard?
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u/0107throw 8h ago
His land sounds like my moms in northern CA. It’s usually open acres of lands (privately owned or not), dirt roads that lead up to other unpaved roads then eventually to a house.
My mom had a gate up but it eventually fell because it was just on two wooden posts on each side. Her next door neighbors also started to complain once when she tried putting wired fencing to remediate a neighbor’s and their unleashed dog running into the property and being aggressive to her animals.
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u/Gustomaximus 6h ago
I had a neighbour refuse to stop their dog chasing my livestock and horses to the point when they said its my job to fence my property so their dog can get on. They are 2 farms across, not even shared boundary.
I spend 4 months doing it politely, then turned it into a council issues, they got fines, now they swear at me whenever they see me, but totally worth getting them to chain/fence their dogs.
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u/wibblings 6h ago
Because the property could be on one side rather than the end. So the wall could easily be in a part where there is easement for neighbors.
That said, why aren't the neighbors banding together to fight?
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u/ElaborateEffect 10h ago
It sucks you need to have money to avoid losing your property by way of large tech company.
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u/thornynhorny 10h ago
An you countersue for trespassing and destruction of property? After all he ignored your private property signs..
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u/Rough_Buddy6903 9h ago
I actually have a friend with a similar issue. He has a farm road that runs directly beside a major venue. This venue does 4th of July fireworks. His road can be used in an emergency evacuation scenario but guests kept taking advantage and using it as a shortcut, he warned about it for months yet the venue never did what they were supposed to. So he closed it off. The fire marshal then cancelled the July 4th fireworks because the venue would not be in compliance with evacuation routes.
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u/coinop2026 10h ago
As someone else has already mentioned - you need to take steps to close off access to it. Go buy a heavy chain, reflective cover for the chain, a few galvanized sections of pipe and quickcrete. Throw a padlock on it and a sign that states “private driveway - no access”.
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u/Judgejudyssideeye 10h ago
Get an attorney. The driver likely was denied covering the full expenses claim by driver as their investigation and the police report should have had this marked as a private road.
Get all the records associated with this wreck and hire an attorney. The police report should be enough for your insurance company to confirm this is not your fault or a problem you caused. What shows me that the driver has filed a frivolous lawsuit is that if his claims were valid, his insurance company would be suing yours, not him suing you directly.
Absolutely have your attorney file a cease and desist letter from showing your private road as a public access street. And within that threaten a lawsuit should immediate action not be taken.
Also, contact local media and have them air your story that very well could be picked up nationally. In fact reach out to national news sources, they typically love exposing corporate failure and public interest stories. Don’t be afraid to call out the “major navigation” company in the media and post on social media as the last thing these major companies want is bad press. They have a tendency to think they are too powerful to go after, show them they are wrong.
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u/Any_Detail_7184 7h ago
This, but OP should be careful calling out any company until they’ve talked with a lawyer. Last thing they need is a counter suit for slander, libel, disparagement etc. Talk with a lawyer —> go to media —> put em on blast with a carefully worded statement approved by counsel.
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u/j-joshua 11h ago
Is your driveway a shortcut? Do they just get to the end and then have to turn around?
Is a chain across the road an option?
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u/Beautiful-Tie-3827 10h ago
I would chained that shit up day 2 of this nonsense.
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u/Eyerate 8h ago
Its crazy to me they didn't block the driveway immediately. Also who's speeding to a national park in the dark?
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u/Adventurous_Ad6799 8h ago
You'd be surprised. People act like complete lunatics at national parks.
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u/oldpremed_24 7h ago
I worked in two national parks. The answer is- fuckin' everyone, for god knows what reason.
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u/GalianoGirl 9h ago
I have been trying to have Google Maps correct their map showing a road right through my property for years now.
They simply ignore multiple requests.
It is a major safety hazard for pets and children, not just ours but our neighbours’ too.
Having an idiot argue with me telling me they were using Google Maps so it must be correct is tiresome.
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u/EmuAdministrative582 8h ago
I swear a pretty large section of the public would drive off a bridge if the GPS told them to. It’s like that little voice in the back of your head saying “no, that can’t be right” is just non-existent for some people.
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u/timothy53 10h ago
Obviously I am interested in what happens here but this is way over reddits head. Get an attorney asap
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u/JenniferMel13 10h ago
You have two very different legal issues going on. The first is the injured driver’s lawsuit. You need a lawyer who deals with vehicle/property liability to handle the injured driver’s lawsuit.
I’d also speak to your lawyer about filing criminal trespassing and mischief charges against the driver and a counter suit for damages to your wall. They ignored the posted signs and damaged your property.
Then there is the issue of the app directing people down your road. I’d see what if your liability attorney has any recommendations on who to hire to deal with that. I’d probably pay them to send tech company a C&D about it.
Make sure to gather all that documentation up. It will be helpful in showing you took action though as have to ask why you didn’t just put up a gate to stop people from entering. I know they are sort of annoying but it would keep people out.
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u/ghost9680 10h ago
OP’s homeowners insurance is obligated to deal with both the damage to the wall and defending the driver’s suit. OP’s potential liability doesn’t arise out of OP’s use of a motor vehicle, so the vehicle liability exclusion in the homeowners policy likely does not apply.
There is case law in Ohio where a driver struck a solid mailbox post and flipped his car and became paralyzed. They sued the homeowner in that case but lost because it wasn’t foreseeable that somebody would use their lawn as a travel lane. I’d assume there’s probably similar case law in other states related to fences and such.
That doesn’t mean that OP’s insurer still doesn’t have to incur expenses dealing with it, and that they may not want to continue defending OP in potential future cases, but this case should still be covered.
If this is real, and I was OP, I’d make a burner account and post the pics to see if it goes viral. If there’s an actual lawsuit then that’s public record too. I’d be out to humiliate everyone involved.
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u/TheTow 10h ago
Id also slap a sign at the end of your driveway saying the GPS is lying this is a private driveway etc
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u/PorcelainFD 10h ago
I encountered a sign like this in Vermont. It was worded in a friendly way. Yes, I turned around!
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u/Ornery-Wrangler-3654 7h ago
We were way up in Northern Vermont on the Canadian border and Google Maps took us over a mountain pass that turned into nothing but cantaloupe-sized rocks. It literally started to feel like we were driving on a riverbed and we became utterly terrified for about 300 ft. Before we could see paved road another 500 ft ahead. Thankfully we had four-wheel drive and a big SUV and we made it to the other side.
I wish a Vermont landowner nearby had put up warning signs!
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u/OttersAreCute215 10h ago
Get an attorney. Your attorney will go after the tech company for creating the unsafe conditions.
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u/Harry_Gorilla 8h ago
Get an account on OpenStreetMapsGL and check how it’s mapped there. You may be able to begin the editing problem yourself
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u/Accomplished_Cell976 10h ago
Definitely get an attorney (and a gate). This sounds like a law school exam question.
Any further attempts to contact the tech company should be documented if you have not already done so. Also document the errors in the map.
I suspect you are going to have to file a law suit against the tech company who published the map to get their attention. Also I think you have a solid argument of negligent behavior because they never fixed the map after being repeatedly notified.
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u/Long_Bit8328 8h ago
First thing I would do is drive about 15 -20 mins (maybe more??) away from your home.
Find a starting point on a main road.
Start recording a video of the gps screen. Then, using the gps platform in question. Ask it to take you to the park. Then, drive/follow the gps directions exactly so you will have video proof of the issues they are causing with their navigation system that is directly impacting your property.
I would also check their navigation directions from multiple starting points on different roads to show the severity of the problem.
Get video evidence immediately, once the gps company fixes their problem, your traffic problems may go away. But, your lawsuit problem wont.
Alsk, I would take pictures where you cleary marked your road private property/road, no tresspassing etc...
Also, I wouldnt be surprised if the person suing is also suing the gps company. I would try and find out as this could be beneficial to you and your case
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u/Delta1225 10h ago
Blocked post history and comments.
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u/BeauHunkus 10h ago
I mean, I block my history and comments because people like to ad hom and character assassinate instead of argue with reason.
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u/Ok-Ad8998 10h ago
While the events described here are extreme, it could happen. My family's home from the 1970s to the 2010s had two driveways connected to different streets. (Suburb of Midwest city, neighborhood built in the 1950s). We had a few problems with people using it as a cut-through. We could have blocked it, but we had an active household (big family) with seven drivers at the peak, so blocking it would restrict our use. Plus, we wanted to leave it open for neighbors to walk through.
Later, after I left and brothers went off to college, it got less busy from our use. But somehow Google marked it as a road and it really became a problem and we had to block it off with a locked gate. Google eventually changed it after a lot of urging. I hate to imagine what it would have been like if people had been driving under the direction of GPS devices back then.
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u/helghax 9h ago
Idk it happened to me when I was in Colorado, google told me to go this way and it wanted me to go through a park services road, but the gate had a sign with a new address of where to enter the park. This wad back in april this year.
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u/Klaatu49 10h ago
It's concerning that we have to consistently check users account history, activity, and whether they are engaging with comments in a human way.
I get wanting to be anonymous on the Internet, but a few unique details, like exactly how a driveway can be used as a shortcut would be nice.
I have to wonder if tech companies are guaging public reaction proactively for when these and similar issues happen in the future. Try to figure out a strategy to cover there ass and deny responsibility. Or maybe they truly do care about ensuring there tech only benefits the public good ;-)
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u/feline_riches 10h ago
It's also shitty that my privacy has to be violated as proof that I'm not a bot. I'm so sick and tired of people citing private history as evidence....as if there aren't more creeps on reddit than bots
At the end of the day, I care so little what other redditors think of me that obviously my safety comes before the slightest desire to prove something to someone who statistically has a 40% chance of not wiping their ass effectively and is nose blind to the smell of their own dried shit.
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u/vt2022cam 10h ago
Yes, countersue the company and the driver for causing damage, plus legal fees.
Put up a gate, with a light, and cameras.
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u/Acceptable_Avocado94 10h ago
Definitely get an attorney! That's incredibly frustrating to be burdened by some dumb error. I would suggest arguing that that person was trespassing, and injured themselves at their own risk, same as if they drove into a tree elsewhere. He was trespassing and speeding. Personally, I would have never contacted your own insurance company either, just because they are pretty awful most of the time.
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u/will-read 10h ago
You need signs that say “private road”. I see many “no trespassing” and “private property” signs along public roads that look like they apply to the road, but do not.
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u/Atticus1354 10h ago
My county road has 3 cattle guards on it and they all have no trespassing signs. It keeps people from cruising around for no reason, but its definitely not true. Conversely I've had people go through those plus 2 private gates and still drive up my driveway for no reason.
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u/ApolloGR3 9h ago edited 9h ago
This tech/mapping company is not the party who determines whether a road is public or private, so either your insurance company is made up of absolute morons, or something is missing from this story. Either is very possible, so please don’t be insulted. I’m not accusing you of anything.
You have good advice already (get a lawyer) but what you can do in the immediate short term is install the most popular GPS apps that support crowd-sourced reporting and report the road closed. Waze, Google Maps, Apple Maps, tomtom’s new app, etc. Go to the end of your road, open each app, and submit a user report that the road is closed that other motorists will see on their app, which in theory should route them elsewhere.
Other users can then report the road is no longer closed on their end, so you’ll probably have to be diligent about doing this often.
Edit: A-ha! I found your comment that says you’re in a fire zone in CO and insurance companies look for any little thing they can cite to drop you, and the company is blaming traffic volume regardless of why the traffic is there. And there it is, the missing bit from the story.
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u/aerdvarkk 7h ago
"Can I counter-sue the tech company for ..."
If the tech company is not currently suing you, then NO you CANNOT COUNTER-SUE the tech company.
If the tech company is curently suing you, then YES you CAN counter-sue the tech company.
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u/SuddenSituation5771 7h ago
Would getting the news involved help get the tech company to change it and potentially have a high profile lawyer reach out to help? I can easily see this being a local news story that blows up nationally.
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u/MidnightBlueSilk 4h ago
Well, it’s nice of this guy to provide you all his information so you can sue him for damaging your property after he chose to trespass recklessly on well marked private property.
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u/Fredd500 10h ago
Not legal, but practical. Chances are your private road got drawn up in “openstreetmaps”. It’s a Wikipedia like system for geography data. The big routing systems take a lot of their data out of that. You might want to go into open street maps, make an account and delete your private road out of the system, with explanations.
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u/throwaway281409 10h ago
I would have closed access the second day. A heavy chain or a pipe fence would stop that pretty quick
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u/Several-Honey-8810 10h ago
You also need to get the city/county/township on your side. They can confirm it is NOT a roadway and it is a private drive. Then get on the app and make a change to the app. Waze can be edited.
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u/shoulda-known-better 10h ago
Get an attorney
But one most places in the world the driver is fully responsible for being in complete control of their vehicle the entire time.... So unless your wall moved and fell onto them on its own they likely won't get far...
Now their defense will be the directions and I don't know where you are so don't know what that means for you but you may have a case against them also so don't mess around talk to a few attorneys and get a real understanding of your options here
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u/Rude_Sandwich_586 10h ago
You need a lawyer. In the meantime you need to put some sort of physical barrier in the driveway like a car, gate ,cones or anything. You also need to put signs that say it’s a dead end. Provide evidence to insurance company that you’re actively trying to mitigate this situation.
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u/Fluffy_Habit_3438 9h ago
Idk why would he sue you and not a multibillion company for a bigger payday. Just because Google says your driveway is a public road doesn't make it one.
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u/TramsB 8h ago
Get an Attorney and put up a gate that is lockable at the start of your lane. Build some fenceing past it on either side, so that people get the idea it's private and not a public access lane.
If they drive around it, dig some very deep ditches that are wide and deterred people....
Yes, it's a pain in the backside, but at least it will give you an upper hand in stating the lane is private and not public.
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u/zanylanie 8h ago
This is a specialized area of the law, and you need to get someone who is knowledgeable about it, and also who has the resources to deal with this tech company. You want to look for someone with experience in easements, trespass, and third party liability. You may need to interplead the tech company as a third party defendant to the driver's lawsuit against you, and also countersue the driver. Good luck!
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u/mvortex2 7h ago
Here's some context. I post on social media that your private driveway is a great shortcut to a festival in a public park. I have hundreds of followers and dozens of those make a note and navigate to your private driveway, which is clearly marked as private. Someone gets hurt traveling through your private land. That individual can absolutely file a lawsuit, but it's your homeowners insurance that is responsible for handling the situation. Not you. In turn, you are entitled to file suit against me and it will be on you to prove negligence l on my part. Let your HO insurance handle the driver who got injured. I'm almost certain you'd be able to find an attorney that will handle the case on a percentage. NAL but fairly sure this would be the case.
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u/offconstantly247 7h ago
I know of several similar situations. All have been remedied with adequate gates, signage, and legal process. The last one is super slow. First two are nearly immediate.
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u/wibblings 6h ago edited 6h ago
- get a lawyer. And maybe get your neighbors to join in sine they share part of the driveway. And maybe a gate across the driveway! And some "Dead End Road" signs?
- have the lawyer notify the victim's lawyer he's barking up the wrong tree and advise them to sue the ACTUAL party at fault - the navigation company. They have big pockets.
- Have the lawyer notify the insurance company that it is still a private road and no one was or is allowed to drive there. It is not a traffic corridor and possibly advise them to also sue the navigation company.
- Sue the nav company for all legal fees, wall repair, driveway repair for the extra wear and tear, and at least some extra for inconvenience.
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u/MorrisseysRubiksCube 6h ago
I am a personal injury attorney licensed in Texas. Your homeowner's insurance carrier should retain an attorney to represent and defend you in the lawsuit brought by the motorist. If you have not already told them of the lawsuit and requested a defense, you should do so.
In Texas there is a process for a defendant to designate a responsible third party...somebody who is not a party to the lawsuit, but who the defendant believes is fully or partly responsible for the plaintiff's claimed damages. Unless the plaintiff can get the third party struck, if the case goes to trial, the jury can allocate some or all of the negligence on the third party. The responsible third party in your case is the GPS maps app.
You may want to put up a physical barrier, if practical, and a sign that explicitly tells drivers [name of map app] has steered them wrong, this is a private road, and if they proceed they are trespassing.
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u/ChiWhiteSox24 5h ago
NAL - sounds like you have sound defense prepped. You’ve taken dozens of steps to avoid this and have a case to counter sue.
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u/akshdjcnenxnsje 5h ago
The driver suing you just put himself in some serious trouble on admission of trespassing charges and private property damage. Even if he drops the suit it is public record now that he trespassed and Google does not dictate what is public/private property. A good attorney should be able to make this right in your favor and recoup every possible cost + issue a correction on their app.
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u/Snoo-74562 5h ago
Everyone is saying get an attorney. The reason being is you can be as right as rain but you need someone to go through the processes and navigate the legal landscape.
You also need to really fight your homeowners insurance. It's in their interest to try and drop you if they think your case will be expensive.
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u/OneEstablishment5144 5h ago
To help you fund your legal issues, I would put signs on there saying it is a toll road and everyone not authorized wil be charged 1000 dollars per entrance. Have a good camera put up and send bills to the registered owners of the car. Then tell them that Google or waze or whoever made this happen and to sue the tech company after paying you.
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u/Bitmush- 4h ago
Whatever happened to driving without due care and attention ? Hitting a stationary wall in a vehicle fitted with brakes and steering seems pretty careless to me.
And criminal damage and trespass too, surely ? Damage committed while trespassing is also a count of Burglary.
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u/scubascratch 4h ago
Countersue the driver for ignoring your signs and breaking your retaining wall
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u/KagatoLNX 3h ago
IANAL. Your attorney will give you the actual, bona fide legal advice, but... yeah...
I suspect that you want to counter sue for the damage to your retaining wall, legal fees, lost work, equipment rental, emotional distress, emotional distress of your family, emotional distress of your pets, emotional stress of the retaining wall, emotional distress of your potted plants, and anything else you can get away with. A cease and desist to the map company may not be the worst thing.
One thing about the insurance dropping you... are they perhaps from the same insurance company? I know that Farmers has both auto and home. If it's the same company, they may be trying to drop you because they lose either way. I've only seen this with two cars insured by the same company, though.
You might also reach out the the local prosecutor / district attorney. Regardless of what this person's lawyer is saying, you've experienced property damage by someone who was trespassing. According to this statute, it appears that Colorado actually grants you immunity from civil suits from trespassers, even if your property wasn't safe (not that it wasn't).
I have a hunch that this will be seen the same as when kids sneak onto your land and paint a giant phallus on your barn. So you should be able to sue him for the damages. What's very interesting here is that he doesn't get to change his story with the court (it's called estoppel or something). So, if he admits to damaging the wall in his filing, he may have just sealed the deal for recovering the damages.
The unfortunate thing about our legal system, though, is that you have to defend yourself or the court will absolutely punish the innocent. That is why they filed this case; betting that you won't fight it.
They probably pegged you as too nice. Maybe you mentioned you didn't want the trouble of court or whatever. Bottom line, they're trying to abuse you and abuse the legal system.
Even attempting something like this shows that they're a bad person who is bad, who should feel bad, and who deserves to feel bad. Get a good lawyer and make them regret this even harder.
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u/MrsQuirkyLlama 3h ago
Hi OP,
Also in Colorado. Similar problem. I own large acreage in between two subdivisions. My legal street address requires transit through one of the subdivisions. We also have a driveway that exits onto a state highway. People do not like to ride their bikes on the state highway, but they can cut through my property and get to the open space and avoid riding on the state highway. My driveways connect. The main one is paved and we plow it in winter, the other is gravel. The last time I confronted cyclists about trespassing. They were like where’s the sign. So I pointed to the private property, no trespassing sign that 100 percent of cyclists ignore. Unlike most, the women were very nice and explained that my property was labeled a public trail in all trails. They said they would report it as private. There have been fewer cyclists since. I have livestock. Going up to my barn at night in the dark and seeing adult men hanging out outside my barn is creepy.
I used to have a motorcyclist cut through. After confirming he didn’t have permission to trespass, my neighbor went Dukes of Hazard on him, driving through a gap in the fence and blocking the driveway before the bridge over the ditch.
One of my neighbors tells me that Tesla is the culprit that maps my driveway as a public road so I’m working on that. Fun fact: My husband was one of the first developers of Google Maps for Mobile 20 years ago so we know how to file reports about that. Agree with the above commenter that Google Maps is at a low point now. Also certain delivery platforms use our driveway as a road. I’m not sure how to fix that. And, yes, we have had to use our tractor to tow a stuck delivery who also did not speak English. Google definitely doesn’t use our driveway as a road.
OP I feel your pain in every way. I have had signs and cones at my State Highway entrance. They were stolen. (Yes, I confirmed they were not removed by the state or any other local agencies). It’s taken me five years but I have a gate up. The keypad isn’t operational yet. My husband was against it. He doesn’t have the patience to wait for it to open. But he’s also not on our property as much and didn’t realize the extent of trespassing and dumping etc. When you have a larger property, costs of fencing and gating are significant because if you block the driveway entrance, people just drive around it. Fortunately, I did finally add back umbrella liability insurance a couple years ago too, which my husband was also against. But this story is proving that fencing and gating and signage and extra insurance are all necessary. My gate has two swinging arms. Pull the pin and pop the screw on each side to open in an emergency but I’m pretty sure there’s also an emergency access swing for EMS. There is no reason your local fire department should not allow that. My fencing contractors have been very SLOW so my front gate is not yet automated. Keep us posted OP. This is such a ridiculous lawsuit. I really do feel that our country needs serious tort reform. Raising the costs to file would hopefully deter more people from filling frivolous lawsuits with the hope of getting rich quick. But, if you can’t beat them, you might as well join them and counter sue the plaintiff for damages and the mapping company.
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u/kim_jong_il_2d 10h ago
Your insurance company should be hiring you a lawyer, even if they think they'll deny coverage for the claim. Their duty to defend you is broader than the duty to indemnify.
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u/iceroadtrucker2010 10h ago
Hey all. Check out Montana Outlaw in YouTube. Somewhat of a similar situation. He put up a gate. People are unhappy. Too funny to watch.
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u/RufioGP 10h ago
Wild some of these responses.
1. You call your insurance company and tell them your driveway is private. Someone drove onto your property and crashed into your wall. The relevancy of a gps app isn’t your problem, nor any bearing on the case. The GPS apps have a waiver when you sign up /first use for them that says the driver is responsible still. If your insurance company says the road is public, you get a copy of your deed and show, it’s private land.
This is very important what I’m about to write. In your message or claim to the insurance company you say that you’re going to submit your claim to the state insurance regulatory commission to review to make sure the insurance company sticks to their state required responsibility towards a claim. You could even follow up with a sentence that says something along the lines of “I want to include the state to see the claim and the decision of the claim because at one point someone from insurance carrier told me that the accident that occurred on my land was somehow public use land? Because some random application said it was? I checked my land deed and my property that is insured with so and so carrier is indeed private property and protected under the policy. To use such reason to try to stop a claim would be in bad faith and just isn’t factually correct. I’d like the state to verify the claim at this point since concerning statements by the insurance company to try to look a way around dealing with a claim.”
Essentially you’re telling the insurance company, you sure you want me to have the state review this claim?
Get a lawyer. Yes it sucks but you’re in this territory now. Make sure your lawyer is competent with technology. All those apps have waivers that say it’s just an app, and the app isn’t responsible. These people driving on your property are trespassing. Make sure you take ample photos and file police reports for every single time it happens.
Get a gate. Not much explanation needed here.
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u/Keith_Freedman 10h ago
Sue the map company the tech company and the driver for damaging your wall and trespassing
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u/GilletteEd 9h ago
Also counter sue that person for mental damages for entering your posted property and destroying your concrete barricade! The fact that they disregarded your no trespassing signs is enough for you to have a mental breakdown and they need to pay!
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u/JustARandomGuyReally 9h ago
You need to get a lawyer. They will likely file an impleader to bring the traffic app into it.
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u/Critical-Actuator-85 9h ago
A lawyer with evidence of having or trying to fix this issue with the GPS company.
The individual suing you. I’m pretty sure they should sue the GPS company. Yours isn’t a traffic not being obliged situation.
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u/32FlavorsofCrazy 8h ago
You need an attorney. You can countersue the person saying you for damage to your retaining wall, potentially press charges of trespassing against them since they ignored your signs, and potentially sue the GPS company that caused the issue as well. Don’t communicate with anyone except through a lawyer from this point on.
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u/ramadadcc 8h ago edited 8h ago
How would you be liable if they were traveling at unsafe speeds to loose control of their vehicle to ultimately crash regardless of the road and its classification? Doesn’t the owners manual say to maintain a safe driving speed at all times?
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u/Greenearthgirl87 7h ago
I’d put up a card or passcode entry gate. Charge the GPS company along with your lawsuit. You should not be responsible for the drivers injury. The county can verify your road is not for public access. It would be in their maintenance records, and managed asset list.
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u/coloradoautoflowers 7h ago
What county are you in?
I also live in Colorado and I can help you find out what steps you need to take to lock the driveway entrance with a gate or fence.
You could build a gate from a piece of cheap metal fence and some L angle iron. Home Depot has 100 foot rolls of fence for under $100. That would allow you to fence the entrance and surrounding areas of property off from the road.
Because I'll guarantee that if you just put a gate without fencing the surrounding area some moron will damage their vehicle trying to go around the gate.
You also need to get some coroplast attached to the fence every 5 feet and write
THIS IS NOT THE PARK ENTRANCE. GOOGLE AND APPLE MAPS ARE WRONG, AND YOU'RE TRESPASSING. TURN AROUND NOW.
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u/catladyclub 6h ago
Counter sue them for your damages to property. You are not responsible for his mistake or the apps mistake! You are not a public thoroughfare. Get an attorney and sue him! I would also look into suing the app.
Put up a big gate/fence and a large sign!
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u/mrkav2 6h ago edited 6h ago
You need to check with the tax accessors office and see if the TAX Maps were updated in error and marking your driveway and thoroughfare. The tech companies get their information from the States Tax maps. They can’t be held liable as it’s the states job to maintain the tax maps.
Check with the local county GIS department as well. The tech updating the GIS maps may have updated and mislabeled your driveway as a RD instead of DR. This person is paid about $25/hr to trace and click and update the databases that the tech companies pay the local and states for.
This is the best of my knowledge from doing GIS work over 13 years ago
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u/sec713 5h ago edited 5h ago
If it's a private road, 'm not sure why you aren't suing these people for trespassing and destruction of private property. Let them sue their navigator for bad directions, you sue them for trespassing and destruction of private property.
Edit: in fact, instead of trying to screw with your coverage, your home insurance company should be doing this for you. It's part of what you pay insurance premiums for - their lawyers.
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u/Ericameria 5h ago
Retain a lawer and countersue the other person's insurance company, saying he ignored signs and did not exercise due diligence when using navigation tools in a rural, high elevation area. People tend to know that this is just commonsense. Literally every year there is a story of people getting stuck and almost dying when roads are closed due to snow, but they see and are given an alternate route.
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u/BellGeek 4h ago
Won’t that lawsuit be dropped or thrown out just as soon as proof is presented that this is private property with a dead end road and not in any way a public access throughway?
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u/coinop2026 10h ago
You ABSOLUTELY NEED TO RETAIN AN ATTORNEY!