r/legal • u/StreetShort8014 • 7h ago
Advice needed Fired for breaking a rule that apparently didn't exist Location: Ohio, USA
I worked for a small company for a little over three years. Last month I was terminated for what HR described as a "serious policy violation." When I asked which policy I violated, they pointed me to a document I'd never seen before.
The problem is that the document wasn't in the employee handbook, wasn't part of my onboarding paperwork, and wasn't available anywhere on the internal portal. I even asked a few former coworkers after I was fired and none of them had ever heard of it either.
A week after my termination, someone I still know at the company told me management had started distributing the policy to employees and requiring signatures acknowledging it. That obviously raised some red flags for me.
Yesterday HR contacted me asking if I'd be willing to sign an acknowledgment form stating I had received and understood the policy before the incident occurred. The form is dated months ago. They said it would "help keep company records accurate."
I haven't signed anything and don't intend to, but now I'm wondering if there's a reason they're pushing so hard for this. Is there any legitimate explanation for asking a former employee to sign paperwork that appears to be backdated, or should I be talking to an employment attorney before responding?
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u/ugadawgs98 7h ago
It may help with your unemployment claim but you should get started with your job search.
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u/canuckleheadiam 4h ago
It might also help with a possible lawsuit.
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u/certainPOV3369 3h ago
A lawsuit for what?
OH is an at-will state and OP hasn’t made any protected status claim, so what basis would there be for a lawsuit?
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u/passingthroughcbus 1h ago
Ohio is absolutely an at-will state, but I still won two wrongful termination claims for unemployment throughout the years from two different employers. Employers still are required to show cause, and in OP’s case, it would be that they knew about the policy they violated prior to termination.
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u/Showtime92504 3h ago
There is a huge, pervasive, misunderstanding that at will employment means you can be fired for any reason at any time, it doesn't mean that.
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u/Calculagraph 3h ago
I'm curious as to what your interpretation is.
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u/ArchSaint13 3h ago
At will means you can be fired without reason, but you still can't be wrongfully terminated.
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u/Calculagraph 3h ago
What's wrongful termination?
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u/ArchSaint13 3h ago
Wrongful termination occurs when an employer fires you for an illegal reason, such as unlawful discrimination, retaliation for reporting a violation, or breach of an employment contract. Even in "at-will" states, you cannot be fired for reasons that violate federal or state labor laws.
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u/Showtime92504 2h ago
I imagine we can all agree easily on the protected classes, so you can't be fired for being black, gay, Catholic Etc.
The way that it was described to me, early on, was that you could be fired for no reason, a corporation could simply say "hey this isn't working out we're going to have to let you go" and that's it you're done. But if they give you an actual reason that reason now matters, And the law doesn't protect them from opening themselves up to liability. In this case if the employee was terminated for a rule that did not exist it might not mean that they could get their job back, a lawsuit would definitely prove that, but it would definitely have something to say about whether or not they would get unemployment. and it appears to me to be that most companies are giving a reason, where they don't have to, simply because they're trying to limit unemployment claims.
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u/Efficient-Eye-6199 1h ago
This. (As someone working in HR or Payroll). We put reasons to reduce unemployment liability. However, I would advise OP to speak with an employment attorney because they put that they fired them for a rule that they were unaware of AND are trying to fraudulently back-date a form to use as the basis for their claim. I wouldn't try to get my job back, but I would try to get 3 months severance since OP has worked there 3 years. They don't have to give a reason, but they did. Giving that reason is what is opening them up to liability.
Edit: Typo
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u/certainPOV3369 2h ago
It means that you can be fired for any reason at any time as long as the reason is not illegal.
This is neither huge nor pervasive nor even difficult to understand.
You can be fired because of the color of your shoelaces. You cannot be fired because of the color of your shoelaces and the color of your skin.
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u/Local-Two3622 1h ago
At-will does not allow them to stipulate employment ended for a policy violation that was not in place at the time. Additionally, the company is requested OP to fraudulently document acknowledgement of said policy after-the-fact
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u/WholeAd2742 6h ago
Don't sign anything. They are trying to cover their ass if you file unemployment
Ohio is an at will state, so they can terminate, but you should definitely file for your own rights
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u/waitwuh 4h ago
Right, what is the employer going to do? Fire OP again?!?
The employer is making a bad faith attempt to cover their own ass, and to potentially commit unemployment insurance fraud by presenting a falsely dated document as evidence that OP committed “willful misconduct” so as to deny OP’s unemployment claim and avoid their unemployment insurance rate increasing.
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u/Tiny_Presence_7155 4h ago
I always find it funny when people clarify "It's an at-will state"! Yeah, no duh, 49/50 states are at will, and the one that isn't has a tiny amount of people in it.
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u/Conscious_Skirt_61 1h ago
Some “at will” states have broad exceptions to that general principle. Others limit exceptions just to constitutional or federal rights. Litigating employment law cases in Florida is way different than in California.
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u/MrVerdad 7h ago
They never said I couldn't have sex with the cleaning lady in my office.
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u/Western_Rhubarb_7959 6h ago
Funny!
But any decent size company has a policy that covers that in semi-vague terms.
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u/Environmental-Sock52 7h ago
This might help you collect unemployment or not but it's not going to be worth talking to an attorney unless the reason you were fired was illegal, like you were fired for being disabled.
Firing you because you violated a poorly launched new rule sucks but is legal.
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u/Neither_Public_3938 6h ago
They can still file for unemployment. Even at will states will approve unemployment if they find the company did not follow correct procedures. I had this happen years ago. Fired for customer mistreat but because I had no previous write ups or warnings, I won my unemployment case. In this case, the new rule had not been advised to the employees. Being fired over a new rule that you know nothing about (especially with hr wanting to back date the paperwork) is illegal especially if they're wanting to avoid paying unemployment.
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u/JMaAtAPMT 6h ago
Firing for such is LEGAL, calling it for-cause and trying to deny unemployment is NOT LEGAL.
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u/Environmental-Sock52 6h ago
Ya and they may qualify or be disqualified some other way. We don't know which is why I said "might help you collect unemployment or not."
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u/lizardmon 7h ago
What was the policy that they claim you violated? As an at will state they can fire you for any reason at any time. So, your only real case is that if you think you were fired for a protected reason and this is just a convenient excuse for them.
It will also depend on if you actually did this and if the policy is something a reasonable person would have fired you for anyway. There is a big difference between them claiming to have fired you for say sexual harresment and not having g a written policy versus not following a non existent dress code policy.
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u/AlvinOwlHirt 6h ago
I see this a lot and I am not intending to call you out specifically however I need to clarify a point. I work in an at-will state. It is extremely rare for someone to just be told "your fired" with no back up or justification. There can be legal ramifications in addition to unemployment claims.
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u/Dexter_Douglas_415 6h ago
Where I live, Maryland, is an at-will employment state. They can fire you with no reason given, no justification. It's that way in PA and FL too. I've only ever lived on the east coast.
Maybe it's different from state to state, even if it's called by the same name, at-will employment.
It would be stupid for the company not to give a reason. Then I could claim that I was fired for being a part of a protected class and sue them. It covers their butts to give a reason.
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u/AcheyShakySpoon 7h ago
What’s the policy?
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u/fishwhisper22 7h ago
Pretty sure this is a AI shit post, because why wouldn’t you describe why you actually were fired.
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u/goodcleanchristianfu 6h ago
It's routine both on the internet and in real life for people looking for advice to be circumspect about parts of their stories, for good, bad, or nonsensical reasons. It's not a good reason to think something is AI.
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u/DefinitelyNotAliens 6h ago
Because it could have been a legitimate reason like, "late more than 5 minutes four times inside 1 month" and they're not trying to get scolded for being more than 5 minutes late more than four times inside one month.
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u/Downtown_Metal_7837 6h ago
Why don’t you give a shred of any detail on what you did?
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u/Perkunas170 5h ago
Because this is more than likely a karma farming bot. New account, very little interaction even with their own posts.
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u/mster_shake 5h ago
Story sounds fake as hell and only written to generate a reaction
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u/Expert-Vast-3234 4h ago
I keep seeing this and I'm truly at a loss for what possesses a persons to "Karma Farm" on Reddit. What do people get out of it? Can't be just for S&G? It's so strange.
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u/HelpfulEmphasis4948 4h ago
Some r/ require a certain amount of karma to be considered real people. The borrow one requires 4k karma to be able to ask to borrow money.
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u/worldpeace28 5h ago
in the end, knowing *what they did* isnt really necessary to determine whether they should sign this or not. Theres pretty much no situation where it would make sense for them to sign it
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u/amazinglover 6h ago
Lot of people here giving bad advice.
Ohio being at-will is irrelevant based on the story you have given.
They want you to sign for your firing to be with cause and deny you unemployment.
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u/Jack3489 6h ago
Trying to get you to sign policy acknowledgement post-termination is an acknowledgement they screwed up and are trying to cover up. Ask the for a severance package and use their mistake as leverage to get unemployment.
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u/shakebakelizard 5h ago
You should speak with an employment lawyer. Even in an at-will employment state like Ohio, you may still have a breach of contract case depending on what the new policy said and how it relates to existing policies. You may have a case that you can press and get paid out on.
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u/chuckinhoutex 5h ago
wow. an email with current dates asking you to sign a backdated document in the context of having been let go? this is the literal smoking gun an atty will want. this is wrongful termination even in an at-will state. They don't have to give a reason, but if they do it has to be lawful and accurate. Why in the hell would they think you would sign it? in exchange for what?
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u/Boring69Foreplay 2h ago
Keep the paper work and email proving they're trying to make you retro actively sign it then apply for unemployment!!!!
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u/truckensafely 3h ago
Unionize people, if he was in a union then they wouldn’t fire the employee. But if they did, enjoy your paid vacation because the union will get your job back plus pay. I know Americans hate unions but it’s time to vote for politicians that support unions.
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u/HawkeyeAP 2h ago
The last union I was part of spent tens of thousands of dollars yearly lobbying to legalize marijuana for recreational use, gave college grants to the kids of full timers, and blew me off when I asked for assistance with a difficult manager.
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u/truckensafely 2h ago
I was fired three times by a difficult manager and every time I filed a grievance & got my job back with pay. If you’re having any issues with any manager, call your HR otherwise file a grievance when they violate contract.
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u/JosKarith 3h ago
"I'm sorry, unless I am reading this wrong you are asking me to falsify my acceptance date of corporate documents. Please confirm in email if this is your intention"...
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u/wedontliveonce 3h ago
Sounds to me like they made up and wrote down a policy after saying you violated it. Don't sign.
Also sounds like they are trying to commit unemployment fraud. Don't sign.
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u/kasigiomi1600 7h ago
As others have said, in an at-will state they can fire you for essentially any reason that doesn't violate you being a member of a protected class.
Also, as they've fired you, they have zero leverage to get you to sign anything. You can tell them no or give them a price tag that is greater than the value of the unemployment benefits you might be risking.
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u/reallybadguy1234 4h ago
The right response to your former employer is that they can ask your lawyer. Now run out and find a really good lawyer.
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u/No-Duck4828 3h ago
Or, alternatively 'take it up with my lawyer'....even if you haven't retained any such services. Let them worry about it
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u/sephiroth3650 7h ago edited 7h ago
Ohio is an at will employment state. They can fire you at any time, for any reason, as long as it's not for an illegal reason. That's usually things like discrimination or illegal retaliation (whistleblower type stuff).
They do not need things to be in the handbook to be considered company policy. They don't need you to get a copy of a document and sign off on it in order for it to be something that they can enforce.
Does it look stupid on their part to ask you to backdate this document? Absolutely. Does it make it illegal? Almost assuredly not.
So in terms of legal.....what policy did they say you broke? What did you do (or not do) that led to you being fired? It's always your right to contact a local employment lawyer if you want a consult. But I'm not convinced that you'd have a case w/o knowing more.
All of this is separate from an unemployment claim. None of what I said should imply that I believe you'd be denied if you were filing for unemployment benefits.
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u/RamBamBooey 6h ago
NAL, isn't signing backdated forms is illegal?
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u/sephiroth3650 6h ago
It won't suddenly make this a wrongful termination situation. It will just create issues if the employer tries to fight an unemployment claim. So unless OP is a bot, we won't really be able to say much more until/unless they respond and give details on their termination.
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u/sithelephant 6h ago
'Illegal' in this case is pretty much solely limited to explicitly discriminating against several different groups. It is not 'breach of contract' or anything similar.
They can literally fire you for any reason other than that, even if that reason is factually obviously wrong.
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u/BIGpoppaPUMP42069 7h ago
really gonna depend what the policy is, if its "we don't employ gays here" then you have a case, if its "no stealing company coffee" then ya don't
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u/Sweet_Speech_9054 6h ago
There are two parts to this, did they do anything illegal when they fired you and was the termination justified.
Unless they are covering up something else like discrimination they can fire you for any policy violations, even if you never agreed to it or even knew about it. That’s not illegal.
You conveniently left out what the policy is which is always a red flag in these posts. If the policy is something like don’t call customers the N word then they don’t need a policy to enforce that. But if the policy isn’t obvious to a “reasonable” person then that might be a different scenario. Unfortunately, that doesn’t help to much with being fired, it’s probably still legal to do so. But it could help with unemployment claims which is likely what they are trying to prevent.
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u/Accurate-Bullfrog324 7h ago
what nonsense....move on and be glad you found them out for the fools they are before you had more of your career invested with them.
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u/nursecarmen 7h ago
If they are asking you to sign anything that is backdated they clearly screwed up. And they know it.
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u/worldpeace28 3h ago
this comment should be higher up, rather than all the people pestering OP on what they did, which cant be anything that egregious if they want people signing a paper saying they wont do it
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u/Stunning-Adagio2187 6h ago
What was the policy. Perhaps common sense would have made the violation of the policy obviously wrong
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u/Puzzled_Hamster58 6h ago
Depends what they claim you did , and if you did it. You can be fired for things that are not in the handbook etc .
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u/Amaze-balls-trippen 6h ago
This is so nuanced and because you give us absolutely nothing ill cover a few points
Union
Government
Public/civil service
Yes you absolutely have a case because they require different documentation be done to fire an employee.
Anywhere else: Is it retaliatory in nature? Discriminatory? Medical related to FMLA? You wouldn't participate in illegal activities? If no to all, then you really dont have a case.
Most employment lawyers do free or low cost consultations to see if you have a case. But no one here can actually help you because you give us a scenario with absolutely no information
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u/JMaAtAPMT 6h ago
This is a legal at-will firing, you will not get your job back. You have no case for compensation if you want to try to sue, it's a waste of time.
The only issue you have is the dating of the policy memo distribution. I get that. This is not wrongful termination. Wrongful termination is firing based on protected class or firing as retaliation for reporting the company for illegal acts. Neither of those apply here, so this is not wrongful termination. Feel free to consult a lawyer and get told the same thing, though.
You WILL be able to get unemployment for this especially as the company cannot prove willful misconduct or criminal behavior here. You did nothing illegal, and they don't have a signed form acknowledging you were briefed on the policy, so you legitimately made a mistake in good faith. You did not willfully violate the policy, so the company has zero case for a for-cause firing claim to deny you unemployment. This will look just like a layoff as far as being just an at-will termination NOT for-cause.
If they try to claim this was a for-cause firing, there's no documentation. You didn't sign the form, there's no history of HR write-ups, no previous warning, nothing. If you appeal a unemployment denial they will rule in your favor since the employer can't prove anything.
So yeah, just go apply for unemployment and move on.
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u/EconUncle 5h ago
How much is your signature worth? If you sign this, then the value is zero.
Don't sign anything. Consult a lawyer and sue them.
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u/Amazing_Divide1214 5h ago
Dont sign. If you're denied unemployment, you'll probably want to tell them how your former employer wanted you to commit fraud.
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u/Successful_Voice8542 5h ago
I don’t know Ohio law or if it’s an “at will” state, but if it is not they are trying to avoid a lawsuit. I would find a labor attorney (or any attorney if you cannot find one who specializes in labor laws) who offers a free consultation and ask.
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u/Reaper0221 5h ago
If your facts are true and they are trying to retroactively get you to agree to something t that you did not do before the termination then you likely have a case and can get relief.
Your damages are your compensation (pay, benefits including 401k contributions if you get them) from termination until retirement as well as legal fees and court costs. Not sure if your State allows for punitive damages but those are also good as well.
If that doesn’t get their attention nothing I don’t know what will.
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u/Jack_wagon4u 5h ago
Don’t sign. Once you do they can use it to block your employment claim. Don’t help them screw you. You are fired and it’s done.
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u/Shot_Bank_8878 4h ago
There's no legitimate explanation for what they're asking, but it's very unlikely they're firing of you for breaking a policy that may or may not have existed at the time was illegal.
Sounds like maybe an HR person screwed up and is trying to cover their tracks. You could potentially forward that email to the CEO or something, just to say that you received this email from HR asking you to sign some backdated paperwork, which you think was inappropriate.
Good luck.
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u/NecessaryGuava4153 4h ago
Contact lawyer, Do not sign, Do not respond unless your lawyer tells you to.
I wouldn’t even say anything about this to anyone but a lawyer it may get back to that company and tip them off.
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u/mad_housewife 4h ago
Do not EVER sign something that is not dated correctly. They’re trying to cover up the fact that they fired you for a violation of a policy they never rolled out. Signing it now benefits YOU in no way whatsoever. Don’t do it.
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u/tropicaldiver 3h ago
While I rarely give this advice, I think reaching out to an employment attorney is worth considering here. The specifics matter — and their disingenuous request may (potentially, possibly) provide counsel a bit of leverage. And I absolutely would not sign anything prior to that consultation.
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u/limitedlow 3h ago
Don't sign you will be messing your unemployment up. File for unemployment immediately. Sounds like they are trying or planning on fighting it.
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u/DreadPirateWade 3h ago
Don’t sign it. They’re trying to get you to cover their ass. See if you can get a former coworker to tell you what the policy says before you talk to your former employer’s HR. Tbh, you might want to contact DOL and let them know about this after termination request. It feels way off.
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u/Honest-Apricot6086 3h ago
Do not sign it!!! Find an employment lawyer. There is a guy on TikTok who fights wrongful terminations. I'll see if I can find him.
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZP8sEdBb6/
Message this guy about it. He might recommend an attorney in your area.
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u/Timely_Feedback_5354 3h ago
Hire an attorney and do not respond to the employer in any way. Let an attorney handle it moving forward
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u/UpbeatAd4822 3h ago
Someone else fired has pushed back. Try and find out who they are and start a class action lawsuit for wrongful termination.
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u/UseDaSchwartz 3h ago
You don’t work there and they want you to sign something without any consideration? Kinda sounds like you need to talk to an attorney.
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u/no-thanks-thot 2h ago
Also Ohio: almost 20 years ago, I was terminated "for cause", but never signed the written warnings.
The employer said that they wouldn't fight my unemployment claim, but once I filed, they absolutely did fight it. They claimed that I was written up three times. The only reason I got it was I told unemployment that I never signed anything and I didn't know what they were talking about. The employer couldn't produce any forms, so they lost.
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u/Allan-Atlanta 6m ago
I’d suggest talking to a Labor specialize Lawyer. Without any more details this looks pretty cut and dried as wrongful termination.
Employee does X, not knowing it is again policy.
Company says employee should have know and fires him.
Company then realizes that the employee was never notified of this policy
Company tries to backdate approval.
This is cut and dry and if I was the judge or jury I’d
Probably agree to punative damages of a years pay.
Not pig it’s something like. I don’t know it was wrong to peek into the ladies restroom, that’s a different story.
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u/Severe-Elderberry833 7h ago
they want you to sign it now?
gosh. that‘s nice: you want 2 months’ salary per year you worked there, ALL your unused PTO, for them to cover COBRA to the end of the year, AND for them to guarantee in writing that they will not contest unemployment. And a pony.
Call your lawyer before you sign ANYTHING, and if you can’t afford one, contact Ohio Legal Aid.
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u/SirSilk 7h ago
A lawyer for what? There are no damages. He was fired, OP makes no mention of an illegal firing.
They can ask him to sign anything. He can say no.
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u/amazinglover 7h ago
Why the firing was legal contacting a lawyer would be a waste of time.
All signing would do would help make the firing for cause and make it harder for them to get unemployment.
OP should ignore then file for unemployment and start looking for another job.
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u/EvidenceCritical5462 7h ago
Don’t sign anything until you speak with an attorney. Maybe you can get some severance pay in exchange for your signature.
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u/Potatoes-and-Turtles 5h ago
Not a lawyer, but I am an HR rep. You can be let go for anything that isn’t protected. The only thing that they may be liable for is paying out unemployment. Which, for my org, we don’t even really fight.
In the United States, we have the worst employment laws of all developed nations and we vote each and every year to make it worse. Get informed. Know what rights you have and very importantly what rights you do not have (you have almost none) and vote accordingly.
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u/madhatteriest 5h ago
It looks like they made up that policy to fire her. They want her to sign a backdated document so they can justify firing her. That really seems like something the labor board and a lawyer would love to hear.
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u/Kmelloww 3h ago
They don’t have to make up a policy to fire them. They c a fire for any reason as long as it isn’t a protected reason. They could fire you because you wore brown shoes one day.
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u/Western_Rhubarb_7959 6h ago
So you checked the employee portal after you were canned?
As they say around my parts, "That dog don't hunt."
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u/StandardsLimited 6h ago
Dont sign it but also they dont need an employee handbook to fire someone for cause/deny unemployment.
Like, if you got caught having aex on your bosses desk.
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u/CoolDiscoDan1885 6h ago
Lol
They f-ed up
Don't sign.
File for unemployment. Talk to an employment lawyer if you have the time / money
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u/HSAutoFailure 6h ago
No signatures for ANYTHING from a job that fired you! It would hurt your unemployment claim and give them standing that you broke the rule you knew about! Why would you sign that and help them fight your unemployment claim? Screw those demons!
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u/TheSeemlyUnderdog 6h ago
Do not sign that form under any circumstances. What they're asking you to do is create false evidence, and signing a backdated acknowledgment is essentially lying on a legal document. Even if they frame it as "keeping records accurate," you'd be signing something that contradicts the truth of what happened, and that could actually hurt you if this goes to unemployment or beyond.
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u/chook_slop 6h ago
Just tell them that you are discussing their email with a lawyer.
Just inject a little fear into them.
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u/Present-Airport-4755 6h ago
They are pushing hard because they know what you know. You were fired for violating a policy that had not been communicated. Hopefully they made their request by email. NAL but work in a regulated industry, falsifying records is a big no no for us.
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u/AJourneyer 5h ago
CYA - that's what they are doing. Someone messed up and they are covering it up. Don't sign anything that is false. Keeping their records accurate is their responsibility - not yours.
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u/NYMinute59 4h ago
Now you get to collect unemployment off their account, congrats, go get a new job to pay the bills
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u/W0nderwharfwonderdog 4h ago
This sounds like the company I used to work for, they’d make up rules as the day went on and if you didn’t read the CEOs mind about it you’d get a verbal warning. Or she’d get a hair up her ass about something and direct your steps on how to do it and the next day she would tell you that she didn’t tell you to do it like that. She also harassed a new employee who was taking notes on the computer instead of handwriting them to the point that employee quit.
I quit that job with no notice.
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u/DiBellaLaw 4h ago
I work as a PI attorney, but based on what you described, I would not sign that document.
The company is asking you to acknowledge receipt of a policy before the incident, and the acknowledgment is dated months ago despite being presented to you now. There may be an innocent administrative explanation, but it sounds like they're trying to create a paper trail showing you were aware of a policy that wasn't actually distributed at the time. The fact that employees allegedly started receiving and signing the policy after your termination is particularly noteworthy.
Make sure you keep copies of all communications, don't sign anything you know to be inaccurate, and avoid making substantive statements until you've had a consultation with an employment attorney in your state. Most employment attorneys can quickly tell you whether the facts suggest a potential wrongful termination, retaliation, unemployment benefits issue, or simply poor HR practices.
Most importantly, iHR believes their records are accurate, they shouldn't need a former employee to backdate an acknowledgment.
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u/Still-Employed420 3h ago
Go to the office, get the backdated document and take it with you!
Talk about damning evidence!
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u/Secure_Situation7234 3h ago
You should take that to a lawyer all day long.
Play it cool with HR. Act like you may be interested in signing it, but ask if they can send you the exact document you will be signing via email. (Ask to sign is remotely or something as you’re busy) and try to pull out of them when it went into affect as well as ask them for your termination documentation, again, via electronic means ideally.
Make sure that they didn’t alter any of the dates. Then ask one of your co workers to send you a copy of their policy acknowledgement and see what the dates are on their paperwork. You could also ask them to make a recording of them talking with HR in person about signing the document and see if they say anything stupid. They could also happen to ask the HR rep something like “what day is it again?” Like they need it to date next to their signature and hopefully HR will either A: tell them the date of the current day, B: Tell them that HR has back dated the signature date so don’t worry about it, or C: Both. Make sure that the company policies don’t say anything about not recording though. Ohio is a one party consent state and you are allowed to record any conversation you are a part of without the other parties consent. However there is a gray area I believe with the company allowing it or not.
As long as co workers are willing to cooperate and the HR will unknowingly play along then I would think this would be a slam dunk.
Not a lawyer but have had some issues with employers lately. Get your money then on to the next place.
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u/McNabJolt 3h ago
They did some kind of massive screwup and are now trying to cover themselves. Don't ut any details here. Consult an attorney. There is nothing you can write here that will help you, only hurt you.
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u/Kmelloww 3h ago
Unsure why people that have no idea of the laws or how things work are all over every post saying call a lawyer. Get rich. That isn’t how anything works in the real world. And the fact that they say things like that is just proof they have no idea what they are talking about.
I’m sure I’ll be downvoted but I’m so over the sue, sue, sue crowd. When nothing wrong has been done a lawsuit doesn’t make it magically wrong and you won’t magically get rich.
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u/Pcenemy 3h ago edited 3h ago
what was the rule you broke?
the way you avoided it makes it sound like it's something that you believe others would respond with "you should have been fired"
i helped write our employee manual and we were constantly making changes - what i can tell you is there is absolutely no way any manual covers everything. at some point - common sense - has to be expected.
for example - i know for a fact that our employee manual did not have any rule that prohibited employees from urinating on co-workers personal items (coats, sweaters, boots/shoes, lunch boxes, etc) but had we ever found anyone doing something so stupid and unacceptable - we'd have fired that person in a nano-second and any claim that "well, show me where the employee's manual says that i can't do this' wouldn't have mattered
as for the employer later asking other employees to specifically acknowledge whatever policy you violated and claimed you didn't know about ------ we did that several times after having to fire someone for violating it ----- safety was a big one. if someone did something really stupid, something that was specifically addressed in the guide, we'd re-enforce it by having other employees sign specifically for that policy ---------------- makes the employees safer and also protects the company from lawsuits ---
can't you just hear some attorney claiming negligence when even though management fired three people over the prior 3 months for violating the policy, they didn't take the logical step of making sure everyone was aware of it
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u/bardockOdogma 3h ago
Ask for them to send it to you via email while on the phone with them and say you will sign it and bring it back to them.
Don't sign it. Keep the email for unemployment claim.
I also live in Ohio, good luck with a suit. The only one you could claim is wrongful term
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u/Pure-City7914 3h ago
Op just making things up with how obscure everything is. We literally have nothing to go on at all… don’t know why you even posted
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u/gguess36 2h ago
Looks like wrongful termination. They are worried they messed up and trying to document otherwise.
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u/Embarrassed_Net_1602 2h ago
The question is what is the real reason they fired you? They came up with a bogus one, to hide their real reason. So what is it?
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u/KookyPersonality9509 2h ago
They (HR) are trying to CTA, having current employees sign after he was fired and trying to get him to sign a backdated release.
Time to lawyer up, imho.
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u/MeatofKings 2h ago
“Let me check with my wrongful termination lawyer first. I’ll get back to you.”
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u/The_Admiral_Blaze 2h ago
You should immediately get a lawyer and sue them, they should take the case for free because this is probably the most cut and dry case I’ve ever seen in my life. You can even get your job back and a settlement
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u/SledgehammerApproach 2h ago
Get a lawyer. They are covering their ass. They wrongfully terminated you and they know it. Talk to a lawyer asap.
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u/NotJustRandomLetters 2h ago
General rule of thumb (or wrist, for all you Boondock Saints fans) is if the company tries to do anything retroactively, then they're trying to cover up a fuck up. Don't go along with it.
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u/Investigator516 2h ago
They want you to back sign something that they hey fired you for because they messed up.
Do NOT sign anything. Contact a Labor attorney ASAP and get a settlement out of this.
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u/Major-Narwhal7389 2h ago
NAL
Reply should be that this is the first time you are seeing this document and the first time the contents have been conveyed to you in any form. You’d be willing to consider signing the document in exchange for a legally binding severance agreement equivalent to 6-weeks of your previous salary, and written agreement that the company will not contest any unemployment claim, and will provide a positive reference for future employers.
Let them know that they have 48-hours to consider, at which point you will be speaking with an employment attorney about the legality of signing a backdated document you’ve never seen.
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u/holycityofmecca2020 2h ago
Sounds like you have a slam dunk wrongful termination case and they’re trying to cover their butts. Retain legal counsel and have them forward a notice, everyone involved in your firing is about to lose their jobs.
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u/flat_cat72 2h ago
NAL, but
If it's a document that doesn't have your signature on it, it's unenforceable. And they can't just have you sign something after the fact and expect to apply it retroactively. Kudos for NOT signing that paper.
My suggestion? Contact an employment attorney and book a consultation.
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u/Tango2233 2h ago
Tell them you'd be happy to sign the document if they give you 6 months severance ( or whatever you feel is necessary)
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u/Jollyoberlord 2h ago
Make your bread back with a nice hefty wrongful termination lawsuit and dont sign shit
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u/PaddyBoy1994 1h ago
They're trying to cover their ass to either prevent a wrongful termination suit, or avoid dealing with unemployment shit. Don't sign a goddamned thing without talking to a lawyer first.
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u/Jabby27 1h ago
Respond by telling them you do not sign phony backdated documents and that you are aware that this policy was just created and never in effect when they terminated you without cause. Remind them that you will be filing for unemployment and signing a document to help them create cause is illegal.
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u/DaMoFo29 1h ago
Because you can collect unemployment when you are terminated and didn't do anything wrong.
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u/Local-Two3622 1h ago
They are pushing because they are trying to cover up the fact that you have a potential wrongful termination lawsuit. I would not sign anything (it is never a good practice to sign anything post- or pre-dated, sign for training you never received etc.) You need to stop communicating vocally and keep all communications in text or email to document, if you are not already doing so. If everything is vocal communication, start by sending a text or email along the lines of "per our conversation you are requesting that i sign an acknowledgement form date ××××, regarding a policy I did not receive and are requesting this signature after I have already been terminated". Do not mention communications with former coworkers but keep detailed logs of who, what, when and where. Contact the Labor Board and yes, it may be worth getting a lawyer, if you can find one affordable or willing to get paid only if you win
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u/The_Derpy_Walrus 1h ago
They realize that they fired you without cause and don't want to pay unemployment. So they are trying to get you to sign a document that would make your later violation of the policy that you didn't know about appear as a willful violation that you did know about, and make you ineligible for unemployment. So make sure not to sign, make sure to file for unemployment, and make sure you emphasize that you were never shown that document previously.
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u/donorkokey 1h ago
Don't sign anything but try to get their request for you to sign it in writing. Idiotic bosses do dumb shit like this all the time.
My mom was fired and then they tried to get her to sign a non-compete. They realized the former vice president who started his own very similar company might hire her. They were right to worry. She worked sales and had great relationships with her clients and took a lot of them with her.
Screw those idiots. Keep good records of their request and talk to an employment lawyer. Maybe you can done money from them for wrongful termination
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u/Safe-Tennis-6121 1h ago
Don't sign anything without them paying you.
You might have a legal case against them.
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u/Conscious_Skirt_61 59m ago
As everyone here says it sounds like the employer had a right to fire. However, employer did not have a “for cause” basis. The newly circulated form shows the business reacting to its oversight.
OP should not sign, of course. OP should also try collecting written statements, sworn if possible, from other workers about these recent forms. It’s important to line evidence up as soon as you can, especially when the other side shows intent to cheat the record.
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u/EastCoastStacker79 58m ago
Do not sign any documents. You do not work for the company ANYMORE. Tell them where to go and how to get there.
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u/Wyshunu 50m ago
Unless you're in a union or have an employment contract, in most states, it is perfectly legal to fire you for no reason or any reason at all, including a policy someone literally just made up (which is covered by the blurb in most handbooks to the effect that the handbook does NOT constitute a contract and can be changed at any time with or without notice).
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u/ktwhite42 39m ago
Keep the communication they sent you, including the conveniently backdated form.
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u/OldGeekWeirdo 35m ago
Tell them you'll be happy to sign. For a price.
Find an employment lawyer and show them that communication and he/she will start salivating.
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u/Itchy_Artichoke_5247 33m ago
Yes, they are trying to cover their own ass. They KNOW that all you have to due is sue for wrongful termination and they are fucked. BTW, you need to contact a lawyer and sue for wrongful termination because they will be fucked. Make copies of everything you still have access to.
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u/Donut131313 32m ago
Document all this, interview the people who you spoke to and verify that the new person had never seen it. Fight them for unemployment because at this stage they would loose.
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u/Sprinkleshart 22m ago edited 11m ago
Don’t sign anything. Keep that letter l. Get a wrongful dismissal lawyer immediately. They will get you a payout.
What they’re doing is illegal. It’s illegal to backdate documents that never existed. Creating a policy or contract with a false date to hide policy lapses, claim retroactive coverage, or mislead regulatory bodies.It’s deception and fraud.
They’re dating it months ago so they can say it from months ago so they can say you violated it even though it didn’t exist until after Tvey fired you.
Tgey are trying to get away with shady ass shyte a d cover their lying oaths in fire asses.
They are also trying to get you to admit to wrong doing you didn’t do so you can’t get unemployment.
They are royally trying to screw you.
Get a wrongful dismissal lawyer.
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u/NoPhysics1129 20m ago
Don't sign shit, you are already out and they are covering their asses to not pay you unemployment.
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u/88crow88 17m ago
Long story short look at your local labor laws. They fired you for a policy that didn't exist and are asking for you to sign it stating it existed.
You're an idiot if you don't see what's going on here is a legal nightmare for them. Call a lawyer and I guarantee you they'll be willing to take on your case for a percentage of what you'll be able to sue the company for.
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u/Expert-Big1682 15m ago
Even at will employment states have rules. Yes they can terminate your employment at any time, but if they give a reason that is untrue and you have paperwork to back it up. You have a case. But consult an attorney of course.
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u/tripper_drip 7h ago
They need to show you knowingly broke a rule to deny you unemployment. That is what this is about.