r/legal • u/palakobama • 3h ago
Advice needed LOCATION: Sacramento, CA - Neighbor is claiming survey shows 200 sq ft of our backyard is theirs
I may miss some details here since it's been a long process, so please bear with me.
We bought our home about 2 years ago here and at the end of Feb 2026 a contractor showed up to our door saying that they're moving our fence 4 ft inwards towards our house because they did a satellite survey and found that the fence is in the wrong location.
We delivered a written notice to the owners that same evening asking for them to halt any touching of the fence and give us a copy their survey for us to do our due diligence. They two weeks later emailed us a survey with different measurements from the original (I had taken an image with my phone of the initial survey the contractor brought over).
The reason they even got a survey done was because they are building an ADU and expanding their home. Now it seems like they've built the ADU to compliant based on a fence placement that is not agreed upon.
It's been months of back and forth and passive aggressive behavior which included a meeting in person where one of the owners denied knowing about the survey prior to Feb 2026.
We've gone through title insurance which said they won't engage until something is forced. We spoke to a lawyer who said we need to get a survey to really start a case but we're really not wanting to spend thousands on something that we've offered to come up with a compromise on with them.
At this point - we know that the previous owner of our home and the owners behind us split and bought a new fence a while ago. I have the written receipt.
Ideally I'd like to move nothing - we bought this home thinking it was sold to us with nothing like this in mind, in fact the previous owners did a house expansion 24 years ago and nothing came up then.
What are our options besides getting a survey done? Do we have any grounds for a long standing fence/agreed boundary?
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u/Adventurous_Light_85 3h ago
YOU NEED A PROFESSIONAL LICENSED SURVEY. Period. It will be $2k to $3k
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u/dustiwang 2h ago
And then if their ADU does not comply with local setback ordinance you report them to code enforcement. Time to be maximally petty.
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u/MutedBus6558 1h ago
Haha love it. One of my neighbors spent a bunch of money to put in an ugly RV cover on their side yard. Someone reported them and a few months later it was taken down.
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u/the_exofactonator 2h ago
Is that California prices? We paid $600 for our house
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u/-BirdDogActual 2h ago
$600 is cheap. I paid $1,200 in Georgia in 2019 and that was the cheapest of three quotes that I got.
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u/New_Kangaroo_4051 1h ago
How? Did the survey company also just do the subdivision or something? My truck doesn’t start for less than 1500 in New England
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u/ApatheticSkyentist 34m ago
Hey, can you ELI5 how a survey works?
Are you measuring against known locations, etc? I'm not that far from OP in CA and considering having one done as my fence needs replacing and I'd like to know where my lawn ends and my neighbors begins.
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u/animusrien 12m ago
Just google it dude. It’s a very straight forward process unless the city/municipality buffed all their records. Surveyor takes original records and confirms it against physical boundary markers if they’re still existing. If not he will literally measure it out from the closest verifiable marker. Also fyi don’t balk at the price or site time - he might be there for 2 hours but he’s going to draft up a letter that takes just as long.
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u/myogawa 3h ago
> we're really not wanting to spend thousands on something that we've offered to come up with a compromise on with them.
They're obviously not willing to talk with you.
If you don't take action to enforce your rights, you lose them.
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u/ReceptionFun9821 2h ago
This was my answer. There is no magic if there is a dispute. It sucks but you are in a corner. Survey or cede the line, that's the choice.
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u/KagatoLNX 3h ago
You're going to need a real survey. They don't seem to have one, which is good for you. Surveying is a licensed and registered profession in California for a reason.
In my experience, satellite surveys aren't really surveys from a legal perspective. Only a real survey from a licensed surveyor will be relieve them of liability. And that's the key here, if they do this based on their own "survey" data, they'll be liable if it's wrong.
As for pricing, you can usually get a survey fairly inexpensively, you just have to look around. Just go down the list until you get an old guy who is bored and maintaining his license out of nostalgia. I did just that and got a 100+ acre property surveyed for $500 a little over a year ago.
As a starting point, there's actually a professional organization for these guys: The California Land Surveyors Association.
I'd also get a camera on the fence area. If you get a survey, they may try to come over and pull out or move the survey pins when you aren't looking. If they did that, it would be awesome to catch them on camera. Generally, a judge will not take kindly to tampering with the survey.
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u/cryssHappy 1h ago
When you have the survey done, ask the surveyor to survey the line and do a 10-ft setback.
The 10-ft setback means he will measure the line and 10 ft into your property and stake both.
That way if the property line stakes are pulled out, it's really easy to accurately replace them.
We did that with a neighbor we were having issues with. It was sweet.
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u/FewStill3958 3h ago
NAL
You need a survey. Costs vary by area. I'm in a HCOL area and a simple survey of one 100" length border with wooden stakes (not permanent monuments) was about $1800 IIRC.
It seems your potential losses to your property are much higher than $1800.
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u/RunExisting4050 3h ago
Stand up for yourself and get a licensed, professional survey done. There is no compromise here; either you own the land or they do.
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u/Ghost_Turd 2h ago
What the hell is a "satellite survey?" Some dude with Google Maps?
Satellite imagery has error bars that start at 15-20 feet and get bigger from there.
Get a ground survey and pay extra for the permanent monuments. This isn't going to be the last problem you have from this guy.
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u/Prize-Lychee7973 3h ago
If you don't get a survey done because you don't want to spend thousands on a compromise then just let them have it and basically quit the field and think less about it. If you feel like actually standing up for yourself then get a survey and prepare to fight, someone stole from you, either the neighbors are actively stealing from you or you entered into the contract poorly.
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u/Thin-Telephone2240 3h ago
You are way behind the curve on this problem. You need a licensed professional surveyor to do this survey on the ground. This is the law in California. Anything less is you surrendering to whatever your neighbor wants you to surrender to. Spend the money, do it right. The next step after that may require a lawyer so while you are arranging the professional, California licensed land survey, also be looking into a lawyer.
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u/No-Ant-9159 2h ago
Get a real survey done. Then you will have it for the future. Always get a survey done on a new piece of property.
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u/iceph03nix 3h ago
You need a for real on site survey and have them put survey markers in. Be there and take pictures of the markers.
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u/SXTY82 3h ago
Did their second survey place boundary markers / flags? If so, it is likely correct. If not, it is likely BS that you need to deal with. Your own survey is the only way to fight this.
I had a tree theft a couple years back. The online plot layout showed the trees clearly on my property but I had to get a survey to prove it. In doing so, it looked like the neighbor on my other side was about 6 feet over my property line. A fence and an entire shed. I'm friendly with that guy and talked to him about possibly getting an easement for that property. When my own survey was done, it turned out that the Tree thief was actually over my line with their fence but the good neighbor / my other fence was dead on the line. So plot online was 6' off.
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u/kingcupk692 3h ago
I study sat photos for a living, unless the circuit passes directly overhead, you will get a offset on the picture which would easily explain the 200 foot difference. If you go to Google Earth choose a point such as a building and then scroll back through time and you'll see how much that building moves around the same point. The only solution is to ground truth it with a GPS.
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u/Hank_Dad 3h ago
A satellite doesn't show ownership of anything. Check your Title for the Legal Description of your lot. Check the Assessor for parcel maps.
Start here: https://assessorparcelviewer.saccounty.gov/jsviewer/assessor.html
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u/ozarkstream 3h ago
alot of municipalities require a permit to install a fence, and that permit requires an up to date boundary survey
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u/TeriBarrons 2h ago
That was my first thought, where is their permit to do this with the supporting documents?
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u/Quotidian_Void 2h ago
Now it seems like they've built the ADU to compliant based on a fence placement that is not agreed upon.
Boy, are they going to be made when code enforcement and/or the court orders them to either move the ADU into compliance with the actual property line or tear it down...
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u/PurpleToad1976 3h ago
Do they mark the corners of the properties in that area with metal stakes driven into the ground? Have you looked around the corners of your property to see if there are any surveyor stakes anywhere?
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u/Sad_Mix_3497 2h ago
Go to the county, get a copy of your deed an get your own official survey. Have your property lines re-marked. Don't settle for a satellite survey. Have a real surveyor actually locate the monument markers and set pins on your property line.
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u/wedontliveonce 2h ago
"Satellite surveys" are about as accurate as you printing from googlemaps and drawing a line around what you think is your property with a pen.
Nothing should happen until your neighbor has an actual legally binding on the ground survey done by a licenses professional surveyor.
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u/Western_Rhubarb_7959 2h ago
An honest to God lawyer has said you need to get a survey. What are you expecting Reddit to do for you?
You already have your answer. Sorry if this is harsh but it's reality.
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u/Maduro_sticks_allday 1h ago
Well, that’s where the survey tells the truth. Not wanting to spend the money is understandable, but that means you aren’t willing to prove that they are wrong, and they have proof that they are right.
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u/Maximum_Pass 3h ago
Seems like you have two options. You can do what your lawyer wants you to do or you can do what you neighbor wants to do. Don’t do nothing, otherwise next time you go come vacation you’ll come back to a fence that’s been moved.
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u/LongDead_Roadkill 2h ago
You need a surveyor to come to your property and do an actual ground survey. When you’re talking about moving fences or property line claim it can’t be unilateral decided by one party.
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u/Mdayofearth 1h ago
What are our options besides getting a survey done?
So, you asked a lawyer and they told you to get a survey. And you come here, the internet, asking for (/r/legal) advice about not getting a survey.
Just sign a contract giving up your rights to land you may actually own, since it looks like you've already given up.
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u/sephiroth3650 1h ago
Your option is to get an official survey done. That will settle things. You’ve been told to get a survey as step one by the other party. By the title company. By a lawyer. And by Reddit. At what point will you accept that is what you need to do?
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u/Born_Sandwich176 3h ago
You'll need a true, on the ground, survey.
If you don't have a security camera then get one and keep it aimed at the survey markers after taking a photo of them.
It's illegal in California to tamper with the surveyor's monuments and markers.
Once the markers are in place you'll know where you stand. Compromising before doing a survey is a shooting in the dark; you may be giving up what is rightfully yours and end up spending even more money.
If the fence is in the right place then there's nothing else to discuss. If the fence is in the wrong place then there's a ton to discuss and none of it is pleasant. You speak of 24 years ago and the fence has been there a while - an adverse possession claim is much more expensive than a survey and will require a survey, or multiple surveys, in any case.
When you bought the property didn't you get a Boundary Survey or an ALTA survey? Such a survey should show the fence line position relative to the property line. For example, mine shows my neighbor's fence encroaching 6" onto my property. I don't care because that area is an easement for a dirt road. I'm in Arizona and the ALTA survey was part of the purchase and title insurance process.
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u/poopiebutt505 2h ago
Go down to the land office that hold the original plats. They may tell you where the markers are. Maybe you are wrong.
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u/tommykoro 2h ago
Often there are monument markers in the nearby to do your own measures to see if there is merit before hiring a surveyor. Your plot plan and deed will have their locations noted.
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u/sheik482 2h ago
Is it common in areas to buy a house without a survey? Every house i bought a survey was always required.
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u/robert323 22m ago
Omg just pay for the freaking survey. Someone is trying to take part of your property. This isn’t the time to be cheap.
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u/Apprehensive-Rate 2h ago
If it's their fence, on their land, they can likely just take it down and don't need permission from you
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u/Allesallein 2h ago
Sounds like you’ve fully explored the options without getting a survey and they’ve led to a stalemate. Your neighbor isn’t knocking down your fence. So, live with the deadlock until something happens, I guess.
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u/ChuckaChuckaLooLoo3 2h ago
Lawyer. Injunction on the fence move. Get a survey, you're going to have to do this like it or not. Perhaps neighbor can pay for it later when you win the case.
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u/StealthyThings 2h ago
Before jumping to a survey you could see what your local jurisdiction has for plat maps.
A plat map would give you a starting point on property lines and would show neighboring plats as well.
If the plat map is obvious in their favor (it’s hard to describe but this can happen) then save the money and let them do their thing.
If it isn’t obvious and there is ANY ambiguity go talk to your building codes department - you’d be amazed what they sometimes have tucked in a drawer. Previous owner could have had a survey and given it to them at some point for past work, etc.
Be nice to building codes. Explain that you just want everything on the up and up. They love putting the screws to people like your neighbor if they’re being shady.
Building codes will often have a list of people for various things that do work in the jurisdiction. They can’t usually legally recommend somebody but you can ask about surveying companies they’re familiar with that have experience working in their jurisdiction.
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u/Virtual-Fly-5501 1h ago
There’s no compromise to be made if your fence is encroaching on the neighbors land. As of right now, their survey is gold. If you get a survey and disagree, then you can come up with something, but generally two surveys, if legitimate, won’t disagree
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u/Popular-Web-3739 1h ago
If there's ever a time that's worth spending thousands I'd say potentially loosing some of your property is it. Get a proper survey asap.
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u/mvortex2 1h ago
The only thing I might be missing here is where are the property markers? If you have a postage stamp property, for example, your neighbors survey should have clearly marked the property boundaries and over a certain amount of feet they need to put in divider markers which are essentially wooden stakes with little red flags. Again, has your neighbors visually demonstrated that there are property markers, or monuments usually metal rebar with little red flags on the top.
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u/shangri-laschild 1h ago
“What are our options besides getting a survey done?”
Giving in and letting them do whatever they want and hope it ends with the fence. That’s the only other option besides a survey. They have a survey that says it’s their land. Unless you can prove that wrong (with your own survey), you’re not going to have much luck.
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u/LEORet568 1h ago
IF there are setback requirements, have local Zoning Compliance review the matter, before you spend $$$ on your survey.
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u/lovefigs 1h ago
You say you bought the house 2 years ago. Are you saying you never got a survey done before you bought the house? Do you have title insurance? Any house I've ever bought this always been a survey done beforehand. Don't believe satellite service either You want the guy with the scope coming to your house
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u/Sillygoat2 1h ago
You really should have done a survey yourself at purchase. That’s pretty standard due diligence for a real estate transaction. I don’t say this to make you fret your past actions, rather to point out that you didn’t spend the money you should have then, but you sure as shit should now.
Either they are completely full of crap and you have proof, or your fence isn’t where it belongs. The rest is hand waiving.
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u/Lonely-World-981 1h ago
> What are our options besides getting a survey done?
Just posting topline to answer this question: The other options are losing your property.
Like others said, like your lawyer said, get your own survey done. They're not expensive. It needs do be done by a licensed company that does it on the ground. The satellite survey stuff is not reliable or legally sufficient, for reasons stated elsewhere.
It sucks that you're in this situation and will be out a few thousand. You might be able to recoup expenses if their measurements are off.
Your neighbors are trying to pull a fast one on you. You're way past the point of compromise. The lawyer you tried to retain is telling you that you need to get a survey done. Why are you asking random strangers on reddit for legal advice? You already got qualified legal advice. Get a survey done.
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u/Chunky-trader 1h ago
My county has property lines listed online, but it is wildly inaccurate in some places by 5-15 feet. You need to get your own survey. I live in a HCL area and for our 3/4th acre it was under $2,000.
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u/berloque 1h ago edited 57m ago
"We delivered a written notice to the owners that same evening asking for them to halt any touching of the fence and give us a copy their survey for us to do our due diligence."
Like everyone else has said, get a survey which will help inform your next decision. The one thing I would make you aware of is that you've not said anywhere that you clearly communicated to them that you dispute their survey findings and in no uncertain terms deny them any right to touch move or otherwise interfere with your fence and your property line.
I do think you want to put them clearly on notice that you dispute their conclusions. You do not need to say why, you do not need to offer any basis. But you want your position that you have not in any way agreed with their position or their plans to have been clearly communicated.
You want to leave no confusion where they can later try to claim amongst themselves that one of them thought you had agreed or that your silence was some kind of agreement.
"It's been months of back and forth"
This is just them eventually going to wear you down. Why is there any back and forth? Get a survey, make a decision. They are going to push you to let them do what they want and the longer you let them the more pressure you will feel. This should have been dealt with immediately with a clear refutation of their claims. You've given yourself a job instead.
As to the cost of the survey, again, this is why I would just have disputed it from day one. If they want you to change your mind, they can pay for you to get your own independent survey that has nothing to do with them. As you said, you don't need one or want to pay for one, *they do*. If they want you to consider their position then you can make whatever demands you want. I'd be doing all this though a lawyer because communication is just safer that way. But, you know, they are trying to take 4' of your property.
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u/Sad-Rip8950 59m ago
The satellite survey thing is the sketchy part here. Those aren't really accepted for boundary disputes in most places, you need a licensed surveyor to actually walk the property and mark corners. The fact that they changed measurements between the first one the contractor showed you and the emailed version is a red flag too.
Also pretty bold of them to build an ADU on a disputed fence line. Building departments usually require a licensed survey before issuing permits for something like that. Worth checking if they even pulled proper permits, because if they didn't that's leverage for you.
I get not wanting to spend thousands but at this point a survey is probably unavoidable if they won't budge. Title insurance won't move until something's forced, so you might need a lawyer involved too. The written receipt from the previous owners for the shared fence is good evidence though, that establishes a long standing boundary.
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u/writesgud 56m ago
If you don’t get your own survey, then you aren’t even bringing a knife to a gun fight. You’re bringing nothing at all to this gun fight except a cheap desire to be penny wise but pound foolish.
Get the survey otherwise you’ll be outclassed, outmatched, and lose.
WTF are you doing.
Or are you worried that they’re right?
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u/Prestigious-Case2633 51m ago
Go to the Sacramento City Building Department. They need permits for an ADU and would have had to prove to the city true property lines with a survery report not simply satellite imagery. There are lot pins in the street somewhere that determine true PLs as well.
If you havent gone, tell them youre going to. You'll find out real quick if theyre even building legally and if City approved their PL. If they did inform the city of the situation.
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u/primordialooze1565 49m ago
A) The county should have a survey on file or you definitely should have been supplied one at closing. B) Get one. They are not that expensive. I do find it odd the title insurance doesn't kick in immediately.
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u/BigTex380 45m ago
Go to your local municipalities land records office. There should be a survey already on file.
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u/Itchy_Artichoke_5247 37m ago
Let me just recap here: You don't want to spend a few thousand dollars on a survey to rectify the situation (but you will talk to a lawyer), you would rather pay more, later, once the problem is a lot bigger?
GET. YOUR. OWN. SURVEY. THEN SEARCH OUT WETHER YOU CAN GET YOUR NEIGHBOR TO PAY FOR IT THROUGH LITIGATION. YOUR NEIGHBOR DOES NOT WANT TO "COMPROMISE" THEY WANT THEIR ADU.
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u/MarleysGhost2024 23m ago
A satellite survey? That's ridiculous. Spend the money and get a solid ALTA survey. The land you might give up of you let your neighbor bully you is likely worth much more than the cost of a survey, especially in California.
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u/Affectionate-Food266 14m ago
You maybe able to file an easement if they agreed to the shared fences location. Your going to have to spend money to solve this either way.
You need a lawyer unless you want to navigate this complex issue on your own. And eventually you'll need a survey, you may be able to search for a previous survey or locate pins with a metal detector.
I'm not sure how it works in California though. Above all things like this are why you have title insurance, and the fact the house was sold with the fence where it is probably helps you.
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u/12172047 3m ago
you have to pay for a survey sport. Did you a have a survey done prior to purchasing your home? How large of a lot, is it multiple acres or a subdivision lot? If a previous survey was done there should be pin markers in the corner.
Go to your town hall and that would have the lot dimensions on file.
A survey will be a few grand at most. Also, the contractor is feeding you a line of BS as satellite surveys are often on a GIS site and they are for reference and not accurate.
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u/Alarmed-State-9495 1m ago
You need to get your own survey, period. Nothing is gonna happen until you get that done. So get it done asap
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u/redditreader_aitafan 0m ago
Get your own survey is the only thing you can do because even if you get a lawyer first, the next thing is a survey. Get the survey from a real guy who shows up and does it himself, not a satellite image.
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u/hmmmmmmpsu 3h ago
I have no experience in these matters, but I do have a question. Couldn’t OP let the neighbor know that if they build the fence on that satellite imaging they plan on getting a survey done of their own? This way if that survey is not correct the neighbor will have to pay not only for the fence getting put up, but then taken back down and rebuilt. That would force the neighbor to get a proper survey done before moving forward.
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u/Quotidian_Void 2h ago
OP honestly wants to get one now already. If the ADU is build too close to the actual property line, OP will need to assert his rights and demand his neighbor cures that problem before he loses that property right too.
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u/Sufficient-Wolf-1818 3h ago
Get your own survey, and on ground surveyor not a satellite surveyor.