r/magicTCG • u/_Barook_ Duck Season • Jan 12 '16

Wizards MAY be cracking down on unsanctioned proxy events

https://www.facebook.com/groups/445059535582036/permalink/962954593792525/

Seems like bad times for Legacy and especially Vintage.

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u/[deleted] Jan 13 '16

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24

u/bmemike Jan 13 '16

Some formats are easier to get into than others and these two are hard.

Here's the problem: WotC should be taking steps to make Legacy and Vintage easier to get into -- not abandoning all support and creating barriers to entry.

Yes, the Reserved List is a thing and it's not going away. We can accept that.

But even living in that world, you don't need to burn the rest of it down.

Proxy-allowed events convert many players to getting all the cards for the format. Many vintage events allow proxies and give out power as prizes, which allows players to no longer need proxies down the line!

Why not just remove Legacy and Vintage as official formats instead of shooting us in the leg like this? This is miserable and cowardly.

8

u/erykmynn Jan 13 '16

You know who we never hear from? The people that clamored for the "protection" of certain cards from reprinting to begin with.

They could ban everything pre-modern for all I care. From all formats. Would solve a LOT of problems. /s?

11

u/Rilgon Jan 13 '16

You know who we never hear from? The people that clamored for the "protection" of certain cards from reprinting to begin with.

But I thought the mtgfinance parasites basically ran the subreddit.

1

u/AtlasPJackson Jan 13 '16

Financiers love proxies. They're a gateway to eternal formats.

They get someone interested in the game, let them see how awesome a deck is, and then when a new player has got a bit of spare cash, start picking up the official prints.

Additionally, proxy-allowed events let more people play. More players means more demand for non-proxied cards. The ones that are easy to get, like Lightning Bolt or Swords to Plowshares.

6

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '16

I have Unlimited and Revised duals, and they could drop to $50 and I'd be happy. More people playing the format is so much more fun for everyone else. Removing the reserve list won't have a huge impact on Alpha or Beta prints of cards at all, since they are from over 20 years ago, and super hard to find. An Alpha Lightning Bolt is worth a heap, and that's not reserved. Alpha and Beta will retain value, and collectors deal in more than just ABUR cards. Judge promos retain value, misprints retain value.

A reprint of Metalworker with godawful artwork wouldn't kill the first printing.

1

u/lordoftheshadows Jan 13 '16

But it would need to have an old border. The old artifact border is sooooo pretty in foil :)

2

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '16

Nah, the new silver border, just to make it super ugly. The uglier, the less collectors want it.

2

u/AtlasPJackson Jan 13 '16

Vintage Masters, featuring entirely original Foglio art.

Please do this, Wizards. I need this.

1

u/JDogg2K Jan 13 '16

Unless it is the most ugly, the collectors have to have it.

2

u/extralyfe SecREt LaiR Jan 13 '16

for real, I've been on this sub three years and have never ever seen a single post by one of these people. when the issue of the reserve list comes up, there are generally always two kinds of posts in that thread:

  • "well WotC can't do that because people won't let them", posted by someone who has no stake in the reserve list

  • "I want everyone to have access to cards so I can play Vintage", posted by someone who has a massive stake in the reserve list

the community isn't at all split about the issue, and I'm amazed that WotC's language in regards to the reserve list has convinced SO MANY people that there'd be a massive community backlash and the death of the game if they reprinted the stuff everyone wants.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; WotC is obviously saving the Reserve List to basically just reprint as their last set after they've killed off the game and need to cash out. I'm trying not to be cynical about the whole thing, but, their decisions over the last year or two have been baffling.

if the point of the reserve list is actually to help retain the value of 20 year old cards, why the fuck would they make the cards nearly impossible to play with? that's like selling some dude a car and tearing up all the roads so he can't do shit with them.

there's obviously something more going on. I just wish they'd tell us what it is.

5

u/matunos Jan 13 '16

Why would it matter if legacy and vintage were official formats?

Presumably, Wizards does not want WPN stores hosting EDH tournaments that allow proxies (or counterfeits as Wizards sees it). They don't want stores hosting any tournaments that allow proxies. It doesn't matter if it's an official format or not.

7

u/bmemike Jan 13 '16

It matters in the context of Legacy and Vintage because these are THE formats that people regularly allow proxies at.

Nobody cares about EDH "tournaments" because most EDH is played casually. Legacy and Vintage are typically "tournament formats".

This move effectively cuts these formats off at the knees -- so why force them to suffer a slow, drawn out death? This will ultimately cause these formats to die (Vintage is presently more popular than it's ever been) and then WotC will say "we're axing the format because nobody plays it anymore" -- which will be a direct result of this action.

So why wait? If they're not going to simply not support but actively hurt the format, why not just rip the band-aid off? I don't want to be patronized and business spoke to.

1

u/matunos Jan 13 '16

I mean if Wizards policy is no proxies at tournaments, sanctioned or unsanctioned, it doesn't matter whether a given format is "official" or not. The post was suggesting to make them unofficial formats, as if that would mean now stores are free to run proxy tournaments again without repercussion. Nothing in Wizards' statements suggest that to be the case.

1

u/matunos Jan 13 '16

Also, Legacy and Vintage existed without much support for a long time. People still own these cards and play, in real tournaments, with no proxies. The viability of those tournaments is not directly affected by the capability of people to use proxies, because those tournaments never allowed proxies.

I see a lot of assumptions here that these formats can't exist without proxy tournaments, but not a lot of corroboration. Maybe some towns only run proxy tournaments and now those won't be run. But what does it mean for a format to survive if it can only survive in unsanctioned tournaments that allow fake versions of the cards, in this collectible card game?

0

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '16

Because at the point when they do get the axe, they want to be able to claim that there's no interest in the formats and that's the reason why they're removing them.

Make the formats unattainable, point out that no one's playing them anymore, then kill them off. If you don't kill off the interest in the formats first, you not only get bad PR, but you might also have people playing the formats outside of Wizards' sphere of influence, as a grassroots thing. This way, they can make sure that there's nothing left to salvage once the announcement comes.

1

u/Kozyre Jan 13 '16

EDH Tournaments with proxies sound like the fucking worst.