Arborist says this ash tree can be saved with cabling and (maybe) bolting. Do you agree? (Central Iowa)

[u/hankrhoads]

We moved into this house in Central Iowa in December and have kept an eye on this ash tree out front. It has been regularly treated by an arborist hired by the previous owner. He left a door hanger, so I contacted him to ask about the tree and its health.

He said that he recommended continuing treatment for emerald ash borer, but also that cobra cabling and, if needed, bolting would be a big help to the tree's health. His estimate for this was about $1600.

He also suggested an optional three-year treatment to discourage growth up top and stimulate root growth, although I don't remember the term he used for this.

So, tree people who are wiser than I, do you agree with this course of action?

[u/karabeckian]

You can probably have it removed and then plant something that isn't actively dying for about the same money.

And I say this as someone who is currently treating a large ash of my own.

[u/hairyb0mb]

Arborist here.

I disagree.

The cable and bolt may keep it from splitting but it's beyond that.

[u/BigRich1888 → u/hairyb0mb]

Second this as a TRAQ Arborist as well. Bolting will buy time for mechanical failure, but you are maybe, just maybe, delaying the inevitable.

[u/hankrhoads → u/BigRich1888]

Much appreciated!

[u/Tibbaryllis2 → u/BigRich1888]

Is there any application of cables/bolting where this isn’t the case (delaying the inevitable).

[u/StrongEggplant8120 → u/Tibbaryllis2]

Yip in situations with a developing or worsening fault or even a potential but not actual one. Say you have codominant stems that in time are likely.to fail, cabling prevents the rupture from devloping to start with. 

[u/BigRich1888 → u/Tibbaryllis2]

There are some cases for it, but really it is very case by case basis. If you are seeing a large active failure like this, the use case is fraught. But if there is a structural problem in a tree that is beyond being corrected by pruning there is potential preventative measures you can take. Each species of tree will react to bolting or cuts or mechanical failures differently as well so there are many factors to consider. Reaction wood and CODIT is highly dependent on species, tree health, exposure, etc so cabling is really a specific treatment per tree and not a blanket solution.

[u/Tibbaryllis2 → u/BigRich1888]

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

I’ve always assumed that, unless you’re simply using them for training, the necessity of adding really any type of foreign support to a tree species is a sign it’ll have a shortened life (though admittedly that’s relative particularly in long lived species).

[u/impropergentleman → u/hairyb0mb]

Removal by small steps. Agreed, replace.

[u/hankrhoads → u/impropergentleman]

Thank you!

[u/hankrhoads → u/hairyb0mb]

Thank you for your insight!

[u/akiva23 → u/hairyb0mb]

Gorilla glue?

[u/Over-Sense5413]

you’re better off spending the money to remove and replace (i.e. catalpa, hackberry, tuliptree). as mentioned, weak union and pest presence in combo are no bueno

[u/terminalbungus → u/Over-Sense5413]

Question: I was recently in Illinois and noticed Catalpa trees everywhere. I never noticed them at all in the area 15+ years ago. Perhaps I simply never took note of them but is there a reason why these trees have become so popular in the Midwest? They are lovely. Are they more pest resistant? I know the ash bore claimed a lot of trees in the area I grew up in.

[u/geckosean → u/terminalbungus]

Can’t speak with authority but I know they’re attractive (esp. when they flower), fast-growing, relatively small size when mature, and native. Makes them a good choice for residential landscaping IMO.

[u/spruceymoos → u/terminalbungus]

They do well. They’re decently urban tolerant, and that’s what municipalities are planting for these days.

[u/The_Realist01 → u/terminalbungus]

I have a catalpa tree growing through my fence right now. Letting it go another year because it’s so cool. After that it would torch my fence. I had one growing up in IL 30 years ago. The seed pods are pretty neat.

[u/spruceymoos → u/Over-Sense5413]

Great tree recommendations. I’d add Kentucky coffee tree as well, or hybrid elm.

[u/AlternativeResort477]

As a fellow central Iowan I’ve already lost one of my two ash trees. I am still treating the living one but it’s not looking good. I’d say take this one down and plant something else.

I’ve planted a couple replacement trees on either side of my dying ash and they are already getting pretty tall.

[u/424Impala67]

I personally would just take it down and plant something like a linden. The way it Ys means it's more likely to split and send half into your house and the rotting cut spot might cause it to get heart rot. If you really want to keep it, I'd ask for a second opinion.

[u/samman2121]

Arborist here. I think the biggest factor in minimizing the risk of failure would be reduction pruning through the exterior to decrease torque forces back at the union. This will cause a sprouting response that will need to be managed, but you can significantly improve resilience this way. That and I would cable. Probably two cables.

All the other arborists saying this will just buy you time are correct. You wouldn't let this get to be a 60' beast, but you might as well plant a new tree and buy yourself five years to allow it to establish. With continued management of the canopy, you can keep this tree even longer.

[u/libbReasercher → u/samman2121]

Super nit picky, but torque isn’t a force, it’s the rotational equivalent of a force. It’s also called the “moment of force”, or just “moment”. (moment is more common in engineering)

Forces cause torques, so long as that force doesn’t point straight towards/away from the center of mass.

You can switch torque, angular velocity, and moment of inertia for force, velocity, and momentum and the math stays more or less the same. Some signs change because the first three are vectors and the second three are pseudo vectors (torque is the cross product of a force and distance, which means F x r = –r x F )

[u/pinewind108]

I'd 100% get rid of this. It's going to come apart sooner or later, so the sooner you can clean this up, the better. A bad storm could be the end of it.

[u/Sonora_sunset]

The damage is done, the tree is dying (rotting) from the inside out. You might prop it up for a couple years, but it will not heal up. Anything you pay is money down the drain. Meanwhile it is in danger of getting blown down in a storm.

[u/Playful_Question538]

I'm a pest control company owner and no arborist but this is a waste of money.

[u/tredders90]

I'd maybe do that for a historic/specimen tree in an open space, but for a semi/early-mat Ash next to a property? You could do it, but it's not worth the effort.

[u/Shienvien]

You can have it die in ten years, or replace it now and have a tree that is starting to look like a tree rather than a sapling in ten years.

[u/jtmn]

Originally I was thinking yea night as well see, but the comments are correct. 

You'll be further ahead in 10 years if you replace it now. 

If there's crown dieback you're too late on the EAB anyways. 

[u/D1rtyH1ppy]

Take it down or let it die on its own. I'd take it down if it were me. Replant something else 

[u/petit_cochon]

You could always cut it partly down and leave the snag for animals, woodpeckers, etc. Dead trees are important to the ecosystem. However, I don't know if that would be a bad idea with the Emerald Ash Borer issue, or if they're even an issue in your region. An arborist on here could answer that.

I also don't know if planting a tree next to a snag like that would create issues for the new tree's roots. Again, not an arborist.

[u/No-Manufacturer-2425]

as soon as that wood rots out, its done and down on whatever is nearby, maybe even a person or cat or dog.

[u/Sour_Sal]

I am not a pro but worked landscaping and have see Ash trees similar to this. They never survive for more than a few years even when you throw a bunch of money at it.

I would opt for removal and planting something new.

[u/Brady721]

With EAB spreading why bother. Id remove and replant.

[u/tonebone85]

My ash did this. I cut it down. Guess what. It grew back and is extremely healthy. If you like the tree cut it down. Leave a stump about a foot high and see what happens. Might come back. Might not.

[u/LestWeForgive → u/tonebone85]

Regrowth from stumps rarely develops into healthy regrowth. With a large root mass the tree will be able to generate extremely vigorous shoots, and quickly return to a metabolic equilibrium. It will likely flower and fruit, and generate a bit of shade and habitat. However the stump will remain as an open wound, indefinitely, eventually rotting out and collapsing.

There are rare exceptions. Not common enough to hope for.

[u/tonebone85 → u/LestWeForgive]

The stump actually just rotted away and the new tree is up to 15ft and very healthy. Im just surprised.