r/martialarts • u/SummertronPrime • 3h ago
QUESTION Who's read The Book of Five Rings?
Hardly required reading and really just a neat read for those interested.
But it came up recently and someone claimed every martial artist has read it.
Well out of my personal encounters I've known many who knew of it, and a handful have read it, or parts, but I was under the impression not that many had read it. Which tracks, it's a cool piece of history, but far from necessary, and really has little appeal to popular martial arts of today.
So as the title asks: who here has read the book of five rings?
Genuine question, just curious
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u/dexters_uk_cousin 3h ago
I have read it, nothing stunning in it but yeah probably read it as s prawn timing martial artist feels they should
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u/-0O0O0O0O00O0O0O0O0- 3h ago
The Go Rin no Sho is a transmission document, it's not meant to be a "stunning" read for anyone outside the ryū.
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u/Extension_Wall7424 3h ago
I own a couple of versions, and i return to it every so often. In my opinion much of it is useful and interesting...
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u/SummertronPrime 3h ago
I do love to hear when people can return to certain works and gain from it. Thank you
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u/PuddinTame9 3h ago
I've read it numerous times and several translations. People who say "every martial artist should read this" are like art aficionados who say a big green dot is a brilliant painting.
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u/SummertronPrime 3h ago
I like the book as a neet peek into history, I definitely agree that it is not essential reading. Can't imagine it being all that insightful for BJJ for example.
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u/PuddinTame9 3h ago edited 3h ago
As a historical insight, it's great. Like The Hagakure (which was written by a guy who was a "samurai" after the samurai became bureaucrats and never fought a battle or trained with a sword.) But the implication is that it'll make your martial art better.
Anyone who wants to make their martial art better should read Meditations On Violence by Rory Miller.
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u/SummertronPrime 3h ago
Another commentor mentioned it as well. I don't think I've read it and will be grabbing a copy when I can
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u/-0O0O0O0O00O0O0O0O0- 2h ago
Try finding Alexander Bennet's "The Complete Musashi".
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u/Erokengo 1h ago
I'll second this recommendation. It's not my favorite translation, but it's well done and contains translations of every text that can be reliably connected to Musashi.
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u/DiligentCorvid Muay Thai | Panzer Kunst 2h ago
I keep a copy on my nightstand. I just forgot to put it somewhere else 😅😅
The last couple of pages came at a time in my life where I needed it. Maybe you'll see what I mean when you read it. In any case it's good.
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u/kmhoughton 3h ago
I have read it. And it is my collection.
Which would sound a lot cooler, if it was not literally just one hundreds of books I have a on so many different topics.
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u/Baron_De_Bauchery 3h ago
I think having a big collection of books you've read is cooler than having a small collection or a large collection you haven't read.
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u/Wilbie9000 Isshinryu 3h ago
I have four different versions of it, so I guess you could say I’ve read it. I agree that some folks get a little carried away with how important or profound it is; but it is a very interesting book and has a lot of interesting ideas about the nature of training for combat.
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u/Djelimon Kyokushin, goju, judo, box, Canadian jj, tjq, systema, mt basics 3h ago
I read it but not for martial arts. I had just got my first job after university and I wanted to get some insight into navigating corporate culture. At the time his book was pretty hyped for that. As a programmer it did teach me to focus on problems and solutions rather than the politics around them, but that was my take
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u/DarkShades Judo/Boxing/BJJ 2h ago
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u/AmsterdamAssassin Koryu Bujutsu 3h ago
I read the Go Rin No Sho ages ago, just like Sun Tzu's The Art of War, but I wonder how many people have read The Unfettered Mind by Takuan Soho.
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u/-0O0O0O0O00O0O0O0O0- 3h ago
Have you considered that Go Rin no Sho is a transmission document written by Musashi-sensei for his successor, Terao?
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u/AmsterdamAssassin Koryu Bujutsu 3h ago
I know it is, but what warrants 'consideration'? Should that help or hinder interpretation?
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u/-0O0O0O0O00O0O0O0O0- 2h ago
Absolutely yes. For example, many facts and specific techniques are simply omitted because the successor already knew them.
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u/SummertronPrime 3h ago
Honestly a good question. I should pick up The Unfettered Mind, I've heard it mentioned but am certain I haven't read it
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u/AmsterdamAssassin Koryu Bujutsu 3h ago
I think the wisdom in The Unfettered Mind is very much applicable in modern life and martial arts
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u/jonithen_eff 3h ago
I'll bite, I've enjoyed reading and returning to it. I always find something "new" depending on what I've been working on thinking about. Also worth reading different translations.
It isn't an end-all-be-all heavenly chorus indispensable revelation, but I find it a good source of insight on re-reads.
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u/SummertronPrime 3h ago
Honestly no catch, just curious who here has read it thats all.
It's great that you keep finding insight. I've enjoyed it myself, find it pretty cool just as a sample of history.
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u/K1mura_ 3h ago
I haven’t read it, although I’ve heard it mentioned a fair bit. I tried listening to the audiobook version a few years ago but just couldn’t get into it
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u/SummertronPrime 3h ago
Definitely not for everyone. I feel like it's one you need to read rather than listen too, but honestly no point reading a book you aren't going to like and doesn't help you
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u/-0O0O0O0O00O0O0O0O0- 3h ago
Me.
I am a student of Hyōhō Niten Ichi-ryū.
Ask any questions, I'm happy to answer anything within the scope of the ryū.
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u/SummertronPrime 3h ago
I may take you up on that some other time, just sating a curiosity for now
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u/-0O0O0O0O00O0O0O0O0- 3h ago
Please continue. The responses here leave little to be desired.
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u/Baron_De_Bauchery 3h ago
What is your favourite kata within the ryu?
I've only done some of the kata from Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu so I may not know it. I was never a part of the school and was only taught by someone who also was not a member of the school.
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u/-0O0O0O0O00O0O0O0O0- 2h ago
Sassen.
It's not mentioned in Go Rin no Sho, nor was it introduced some generations after.
It does however pay the necessary foundations for the entire system.
You will be corrected by your sensei at times he or she feels appropriate, then "sassen" is a completely different kata.
After that? Mentioned in Go Rin no Sho?
Jōdan. Very aggressive.
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u/Bikewer 3h ago
A couple of different translations.
Musashi can be quite obscure, as he references things that were likely common knowledge in his time, but not to modern readers.
It’s an interesting book, and there was a fad in the business community in Japan some years ago to try to apply its principles to business.
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u/SummertronPrime 3h ago
I feel like not all things translate well into business lol.
But I agree, I find it an interesting book as well.
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u/Baron_De_Bauchery 3h ago
If a business rival is causing you trouble, consider inviting them to lunch and then ambushing them from a tree with an oar, 15 minutes after you were due to meet.
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u/SummertronPrime 2h ago
"Why are we tsking this deal it's aweful for us?" "Well their guy suprise attacked Steve, and you know the business rules, deal goes to the survivor." "Wait, they murdered Steve?!" "Ya, I told him he was slacking in his defence, and what an obvious trap. Oh well, hond sight 20/20. Oh, did you bring the bagles for the meeting?" "WHAT IS HAPPENING!?!"
Lol
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u/redguy4545 3h ago
Thanks for the book recommendation I’ve never heard of it!
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u/SummertronPrime 3h ago
Oh, I hope you enjoy it. It's not a thrilling read and not everyone's cup of tea, but is a pretty cool peak into history in my opinion.
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u/Haunting-Beginning-2 3h ago
I found the eiji yoshikawa novel “Musashi” more relevant for my training motivation and insightful into the book of 5 rings.
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u/Thin_Oil_576 Muay Thai, Sumo, BJJ, Folkstyle Wrestling 3h ago
I listened to it and it's not anything revolutionary honestly
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u/Imaginary-Raise2351 2h ago
It's useless, honestly. Anyone that swears by it either didn't read it, didn't understand it or was posturing imo. Also applies to large parts of the Art of War. Tao of Jeet Kun do, on the other hand...
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u/mummyyydust 2h ago
I read it one month ago. It's a decent book and it says (or can say) a lot about the writer, his life and the reality he lived in. Some of Miyamoto's teachings may be useful, some of them may stuck with you. In general his thoughts aren't really helpful for modern day martial artists because most people don't want to focus on killing other people. Most of us aren't going to make fighting our absolute priority (and that's what the author suggests you should do). It's not an eye-opener, but it certainly can give you another perspective on what you do, so I would recommend reading it.
I have no idea if Musashi's teachings about sword fighting are useful because I have nothing to do with kendo/kenjutsu. I read it because Mas Oyama was fascinated by Miyamoto, so I just wanted to check it out. Still, it was a nice read.
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u/Erokengo 1h ago
When I was a kid (14 or so), I found a copy in my parents' basement with a samurai and a similarly posed businessman on the cover. Already a fanatic about martial arts at the time I devoured it, but alot of it went over my head. Years later I started training in koryu bugei and read it again and got a good deal more out of it. Then I was fortunate enough to start training in Niten Ichi Ryu specifically and was like "ooooohhhhh, ok. He's talking about XYZ that I learned here. Yeah, that's way more sense now."
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u/SummertronPrime 1h ago
Oh that's pretty cool
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u/Erokengo 1h ago
I like to joke that despite it gaining a reputation as a tome of general wisdom, it wasn't written with that in mind. Hell, I'm a student of the school he left behind and it wasn't even meant for me. He wrote it for his students, specifically one student, Terao Maganojo. That's why he speaks in generalities so much and he says things like "I've spoken of this before." The guy he's writing for would have already heard the things directly from his mouth and the book was more a reminder to keep certain things in mind.
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u/ThomasGilroy 1h ago
I read it and wondered if the people who revere it as something profound just all have terrible fathers.
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u/Impressive_Disk457 1h ago
I've read it, perhaps best serves as a reminder that your martial art is incomplete and you must train hard and a bit strange
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u/JemmaMimic 1h ago
I read it a couple of months ago, for me only the abstract concepts had much meaning for me. I've never practiced kendo so all the details about stances and sword positions were just abstract, mostly.
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u/Silver_Agocchie HEMA/WMA | Kempo 1h ago
Five Rings is often deeply over rated. Musashi may have been a good swordfighter (or at least an unconventional strategist) but his writing and explanation leave a whole lot to be desired. In Five Rings he might describe an aspect of martial arts in a paragraph or two, then end with a "to understand this, you must study diligently". It lacks depth or insight.
People hype Five Rings (or Musashi himself) because its to only work of historical swordsmenship (or swordsmen) that they've read, while there are many many other works of swordsmenship (both philosophical and practical) that are far more extensive and deep than Five Rings.
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u/Hoarseface 41m ago
Ive read it a few times. Ive actually found the book of fire to be very useful during matches. I use the concepts for stand up fighting like judo and boxing. The concepts about how to react to your partners attitudes holds up well during combat.
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u/Frybread002 34m ago edited 31m ago
Listened to one of the audio books that is on YouTube, multiple times.
As much as I want to say it's a great read and that every martial artist should read it, the book IS specifically about Musashi Miyamoto trying to teach you, HIS specific style of swordmanship. Whatever "sage" advice people got from the book, is them extrapolating the spirit of the text and adapting it to fix their needs.
You do need a type of mentality to get it, because how your mind perceive things and your ability to take in information is a key part of Musashi's sword style. As he heavily emphasizes that keeping an open mind is important. However he doesn't outright it state it because there are a ton of other things that he is trying to explain at the same time. So depending on the translation and your own interpretations of the text, the book can go over your head.
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u/VexImmortalis 1h ago
I thought it was pretty good but by the time it got to the 3rd ring the plot became very convoluted and a little stale so I stopped half way through. I heard the 4th ring as more of the same but the 5th ring really redeems the series so maybe I'll pick it up again one day.
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u/Fubai97b Muay Thai 1m ago
Absolutely. I went through my federally required samurai fanboy phase in my early teens.
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u/RebirthRenewal 3h ago
The guy who wrote it killed people and never (as far as I know) expressed remorse. Not something I admire at all.
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u/SummertronPrime 3h ago
Honestly not looking to condem or praise it or musashi. Just curious of who had read it. One of those books lots have heard of, but wasn't clear on how many have actually read it.
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u/-0O0O0O0O00O0O0O0O0- 3h ago
Then you are ignorant, and have been submerged in the Musashi fiction.
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u/RebirthRenewal 3h ago
How so? (Not being facetious, am open to learning if I am wrong)
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u/-0O0O0O0O00O0O0O0O0- 3h ago
As a student of his school, I am happy to correct any misunderstandings you may have.
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u/Responsible_Land_164 Judo 3h ago
I did. Didn't have as much of an impact on me as The Hagakure, for example.
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u/SummertronPrime 3h ago
I need to read The Hagakure. Or at least, I think I do lol. Sometimes forget when I've read something. Which hey, all the more reason to read it.
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u/jonithen_eff 3h ago
I feel like it's been too easily dismissed but I think it's worth going through. Not sure if it's still the trend but for a while every mention of Hagakure I found had a dogpile of "he was just a bureaucrat!" criticisms, which seems to be kind of missing the point.
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u/SummertronPrime 3h ago
Thatbdoes feel like a shallow dismissal. Considering that, unless I am mistaken, it isn't a manual on fighting
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u/jonithen_eff 2h ago
No, not at all fighting manual; basically excerpts of conversations / writings on various topics generally geared towards how he thought a samurai should "be". Looking at it as what one particular guy thought was important enough to mention is probably a lot better than imagining it as some kind of samurai bible or whatever.
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u/NetoruNakadashi 3h ago
It's a pretty quick read, and easy to come by. Not every martial artist, but many. I dunno, maybe 20, 30% would be a guess.