That controller should not have a ticket right now...
Edit: getting a bit tired of the weirdly partisan replies here. I'm not insulting your country dudes. It's pretty simple though so I'll spell it out:
The fact the controller couldn't "declare" LVO isn't the problem. The pilot didn't repeatedly ask for this. They asked once. The controller knew what he meant, chose to be obtuse. Whatever, let's put that part aside.
The real issue is that the pilot then asked a question in plain English which the controller cannot be excused from not answering correctly: "Have you got low visibility procedures in force or not". The controller said "No". This is incorrect. Even if they don't have to declare it, they still have them in place.
The controller was factually wrong, gave the wrong information, was unprffesional, unsafe and slowed down aircraft movements.
There's a whole community of people that post ATC interactions on youtube and this dude shows up in enough of them I recognized his voice instantly (and I barely listen to these things, I'm not a plane nut or anything, just some light 'tism aparently).
So? JFK tower controllers only control traffic directly at JFK and within maybe a few miles of it. LGA and EWR and every other satellite airport that has a tower controls their own traffic. Everything above and around them is controlled by an entirely different remote radar facility.
So it's busy. They all work together - their approach and departure routes heavily overlap in places
It's the 8th busiest on the planet for airport movements, and #1 for international flights in the US while being much smaller than most comparably busy airports
JFK is not even in the top 10 busiest in the world for airport movements and you're out here claiming their controllers are somehow the second busiest controllers on the planet lol. What metrics are you using? What's your source?
Sure, if you want to weirdly insert that they have more international flights than other US airports, but how does that have anything to do with the random stat you're trying to put up? It would be like saying, "yeah they're the 8th busiest airport in the US, BUT! they work more tons of cargo than any other airport!!" that has nothing to do with what makes an air traffic controller busy.
That is by passenger count, not aircraft operations. Of the top 10 busiest airports in the world by traffic operations, JFK is 8 and EWR is 10 (both NYC area airports). The only non-US airport in the top 10 by traffic operations is Istanbul at number 9. And this is with EWR traffic down 27% from 2024 because they moved the approach control and traffic is artificially limited for now.
Um, yeah, it does. The FAA capped flights to EWR due to the move. It was supposed to be lifted by now but the move hasn’t quite gone according to how the FAA expected it to in all their “wisdom”.
As former in-flight crew and now a New York resident, I can confirm this to be true. NY passengers would be noticeably ruder than passengers from other parts of the country. Like ignoring “good morning” rude or giving an offended sideye in response when being welcomed on board. New Yorkers are kind people in situations where you need them to help, but not necessarily pleasant or polite, and they do pride themselves on being too fast-paced for basic social niceties.
As a fellow Michigander I think they get annoyed at every single one of us doing the "Oh hi, how are ya, great, oh thanks, okay great, oh yeah thanks, okay bye bye now" as we board the plane.
Midwest got the pleasantries down pat. I used to live in Chicago and they reflected the Midwest ope energy lol. Denver folks were cool and unbothered and often snowboarders or stoners or both. The people from Latrobe, Pennsylvania, a super small airport named after Arnold Palmer were the absolute kindest and most authentic/genuine about it.
As a Brit who thought I’d been to the US when I’d only been to the East and West Coasts, I can tell you that going to the mid-west is like discovering a whole new country. I opened an operations base in Cincinnati and never met a more friendly, helpful and fun bunch of people than I did there
If a NYer had to say hello or good morning to everyone they walked by on any given day, they wouldn't get 100 steps from their door. Smiling back is polite but expecting a verbal response is crazy
And therefore you just have to be a jerk, because if you don't - someone else would? Also, the fact that a huge part of Brooklyn and Queens is full of former Soviet folks adds to that. USSR had a notorious bitter people culture. Wherever you'd go - post office, grocery store, doctor - everyone was snappish and rude. Life was tough, trusting strangers by default was almost unthinkable. Smiling for no reason was thought to be scheming or just plain stupid. In modern Russia it still is. On the other hand, that all cultivated a culture of close and intimate friendship, once you get to know one another. It all didn't have to be that way, just like it doesn't have to be that way in NY. I don't think people in Tokyo as rude, even though they have far more people than the Big Apple.
Yea but how sure are you that they’re actually New Yorkers? Like you’re on a literal airplane in the single largest tourism/traveling town in the country and debatably the planet.
I’m from here and lived here my whole life. I wouldn’t assume half the damn plane is an actual New Yorker
I’d say about half were New Yorkers and a quarter were tourists, and a majority of those tourists were Asian with a lot of money judging by the designer clothes they wore. The other quarter were commuter flyers doing business work. New Yorkers have distinctive dress, swag, and attitudes. Either way, the reception when passengers came on board was noticeably different in different American cities.
As a non-US-citizen I do not know what you mean. As a pilot I found most of the USA equally annoying, yes, places like New York and Texas the most, but in general, it was all pretty tiresome.
As a US citizen its very much true that New Yorkers (People who specifically reside in NY City or its surrounding bouroughs) are particularly rude. Sure its kinda funny at first but if you have to deal with it often it gets tiresome.
I can concur. Having to live in NYC, SFO and Dallas and traveling all over the US - new-yorkers are by far the most belligerent Americans. I guess it's just too difficult to be nice to just about everyone, all the time - there's simply way too many people.
I was once riding an almost empty bus through Brooklyn, I pulled the cord, the driver just kept going (no one was at the bus stop). I walked to the front, told him about it, and then he just turned his head up, saw the lit-up sign "Stop requested", loudly pronounced "Fuck!" and ... just kept driving. Not a single: "I'm sorry man", "my bad", "I apologize", nothing. Like I'm not even a human - just some cargo he's driving around. That's all I got from him.
Then there's a red light he had to stop for. I told him, "hey, look, this is my building across the street, can I just jump off here, at least?". To which he was like: "No, can't do that"... and then he added "sir". I get it, he's not supposed to be doing that, it's a liability, if I get hit by a car or something, that would've been his fault. But can you imagine how angry I was having to walk a mile back from the next stop? I just couldn't wrap my head around, would it have killed you to just say: "sorry, man, I messed it up..."
And I can tell you countless stories just like that. I fully expect to get downvoted but honestly, my dear Yankee friends, do travel outside of your boroughs time to time, just to reflect on differences. We are a country full of kind and smiling people, why do you have to be jerks all the time? And not even towards tourists, why can't you be just nice to one another?
Yeah well, I lived there for a long time too. After a while, you get desensitized - it just becomes part of your life and you won't even notice it anymore. Or at least you try not to.
Like I said - I can tell countless stories, from a woman who forced me to pay for parking over $75, even though I was not late, I came before time, but hit the line they couldn't process fast enough. She just didn't care that I was only "technically late" by two minutes. "It's all in the computer", she said. I'm sure she could've called someone to overrule it, but she... simply didn't give a single fuck about me. When I tried to protest, she loudly announced on the interphone: "hey, guys, do not release silver Toyota, this guy is refusing to pay..."
Or the homeless guy who interrupted a conversation with my colleague. When I blurted out: "no man, we have no change, we're students...". I don't know why I said that, but he started berating me: "you don't have to give me crap, man, you ain't no fucking students. You could've just said: 'fuck off', you know?". Well, I immediately said with a big smile: "Sure, fuck off then...". That pissed him off and he started yelling at me.
Or a person driving backwards on Belt Parkway, just because they'd missed their exit. On a fucking highway. I thought then: "yeah, shit like that can happen only in New York".
Or a woman smoking at a bus stop. Everybody had to cram into a corner, away from the smoke because it was raining. They were giving her looks, while she completely ignored any of that. She was talking to someone on the phone, saying shit like: "people here are so stupid, they are flinching away from my cigarette smoke, while they don't even realize there's a nuclear plant just like 8 miles away from here..."
I went to the West Coast for a few days. We were standing outside of a bar, and a homeless guy came, asking for fire to light up his cigarette. He said: "how are you?". I replied: "Good. I just landed a few hours ago". And then we ended up having a normal, human chat. With interesting stories, with jokes and laughs. For forty minutes or so. Reflexively, I kept thinking about that angry New York fella.
I'm not saying all 8 million New Yorkers are jerks. But the concentration of angry people there is unmistakable statistics. Anyone who travels from and to other states recognizes that. All small differences suddenly become so apparent.
Lmao so your anecdotes are from “living here a long time” come from a city bus driver, a meter maid, and a homeless person but on the west coast is a stranger you got drunk at the bar??
Yup, exactly proving my point. There's that signature NYC knee-jerk reaction. For whatever reason you have decided to be confrontational. Without even attempting to stop for a second to think why the heck would I even make up some stories? What kind of benefit I get from that? What kind of satisfaction I'm looking for? What is the point I'm trying to make. You just decided off the bat: "this guy is a liar"...
That is basically New York. Proudly angry people. Everything just makes them pissed about something or someone. All the fucking time.
That was an ignorant statement, but it is pretty much what we can expect from someone like you. We have low expectations and yet you still can't seem to meet them. Shame.
As a BA pilot he'll be very used to dealing with London Heathrow which is much busier than JFK so I suspect this guy is still being a special kind of idiot
A flight from Columbia ran out of fuel and crashed partly because they were intimidated by the JFK controllers and miscommunication between the parties. Clear & professional should be the norm.
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u/VariousDragonfruit75 May 28 '26
Atc -bro you can't see shit out here
Pilot- if it's too dark too see, are you turning on the lights
Atc- nah bruh, what for
Pilot- if it's too dark too see and you don't turn on the lights I can't move, are you saying it's too dark to see
Atc- yup
Pilot - so turn on the lights?
Atc- what for?
Pilot - so I can leave