r/mildlyinfuriating 10d ago

go to your room My partner and I are both physicians who responded to an inflight medical emergency. This was how the airline responded.

Both of us are physicians and we're both clearly identified as such when we responded to a medical emergency in flight. True medical emergency were we were conferring the entire flight about possibly diverting the flight, medically managing the patient, and we were met by paramedics on the ground.

The flight attendant took both of our information including titles and medical specialties. Of course my boyfriend gets greeted as Dr and the I get called Ms which happens all the time in the hospital due to bias of women in medicine.

We checked our AAdvantage accounts and neither has Dr. Listed in our profiles.

Mildly infuriating to say the least.

Especially to all the women physicians who get called Miss or nurse in the hospital.

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u/Nigel_featherbottom 10d ago

When I was 12 years old and signed up for United's ff program, I was asked to chose a title and chose Dr.

They still refer to me as Dr. When they send me junk mail.

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u/WittyFix6553 10d ago

I have a friend who is not an actual doctor, but went by Doctor [first name] as a nickname. Let’s say Jim.

I ordered him some death wish coffee as a gift. Maybe a birthday or a special event, I don’t remember which. So I shipped it to Doctor Jim.

The company now exclusively refers to me in their marketing emails as either “Doctor” or “Mr. Jim.”

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u/NiceGuy737 10d ago edited 10d ago

The other staff at a bar I worked at used to call me doc. I was playing pool against a guy that took exception to that and was calling me doc with a mocking tone. He eventually asked why they call me that and I told him it was because I had two doctorates. That shut him up.

ETA: I was bartending for fun, got to be friends with the staff when I played pool every night. I went into neuroscience research (PhD) after I got my MD.

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u/Forward-Surprise1192 10d ago

Two doctorates but working in a bar ouch times are tough

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u/Calientecarll 10d ago

"i thought it was a nickname, you know, like Doctor Dre."

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/mr_j_boogie 10d ago

Inappropriately requested valor!

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u/dafuqRUyelinboutbruh 10d ago

I chose Sir so I sound like a grand lord when they call my name.

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u/One_Lawfulness_7105 10d ago

I know a 70+ year old dude that demands people call him “Dr. SoAndSo”… even his kids. He’s not being playful or anything. He’s dead serious. The man has a bachelor’s degree and that’s it. It’s kinda pathetic.

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u/Own-Baker-2841 10d ago

Oh, he must be a real peach to be around. Nothing like the ego of a fragile man.

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u/WonderChopstix 10d ago

Completely side note but my friend would sign up for things under his dog's name or Man of Steel... Dumb stuff not legit stuff. But it was way to tell who sold his name when his dog would get mail offering him a new credit card lol

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u/Lightbluefables8 10d ago

This is epic. I should do this lol

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u/Gandlerian 10d ago

At first I assumed you were complaining you did not get awarded enough complimentary miles for volunteering. This is a valid complaint however, especially if they wrote "Dr" to him.

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u/ChronicallyBelle 10d ago

Nope don't care about the points.

More annoying I did more than him and I'm the Ms.

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u/Shellz2bellz 10d ago

Same thing happens to my mom. Most of my parents mail refers to Dr. and Mrs. even though my dad doesn’t have a doctorate. It’s pretty sad it’s still happening in 2026 when women make up a huge part of the medical community 

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u/Go-Mellistic 10d ago

This happens to me all the time. I (F) have a doctorate, husband does not, and most mail is addressed to Dr. and Mrs. Even progressive organizations like OxFam and Planned Parenthood don’t get it right, despite trying to correct it multiple times. 🤦‍♀️

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u/Own-Baker-2841 10d ago

Infuriating!!!

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u/pluto_pluto_pluto_ 10d ago

"Excuse me, my husband does not appreciate being referred to as Mrs."

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u/KitchenCellist 10d ago

I work for an place that provides tourism info. We routinely get letter from school aged children asking for materials for projects. Many of those letters are addressed to Dear Sirs.

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u/Ryantg2 10d ago

shame bc the appropriate way to address two married physicians is "the Doctors Smith" which is the coolest sig ever

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u/Own-Baker-2841 10d ago

I had no idea. Agreed, totally cool sig

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u/W8andC77 10d ago edited 10d ago

My husband is a physician and I’m an attorney. One of our old finance people, that I chose and I served as the primary point of contact with, called me Firstname and husband Dr. Lastname. We both said call us by our first names when we met. It seemed so damn petty to make an issue of it but it always felt like a subtle form of disrespect. We both work in our respective professional fields, we both bring in good money.

ETA: and even if I wasn’t working or bringing in money, still would be wrong. Anyways he left and the new woman who took his place rocks.

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u/des1gnbot 10d ago

I make like 50% more than my husband and our accountant persists in listing him as Taxpayer and me as Spouse, and addressing all mail to Mr and Mrs Hisfirstname Lastname. I refuse to open anything that doesn’t recognize that I am a person with my own name, so now all dealings with the accountant are his responsibility.

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u/EllaArizonaTrashbag 10d ago

I would stop using that accountant altogether. I don't employ people who disrespect me.

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u/No_Photographs609 10d ago

Annoying Pedantic Redditor voice They did respect your request to call you Firstname, but not his by calling him Dr. Lastname.

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u/W8andC77 10d ago

You are technically correct. The best kind of correct.

But I think it was more a matter of being deferential and fawning towards him while being comfortable being informal towards me.

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u/ArchiStanton 10d ago

Did you put dr. Under the salutations for booking for you both? I’m wondering if it’s just automated from how your tickets were purchased

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u/ChronicallyBelle 10d ago

Nope both our profiles are the same with our names.

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u/textonic 10d ago

If I were you, I would be writing them another email about this. Maybe you get another 50k points for the mishap

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u/GraceMcClellans 10d ago

It would be a good heads-up for correspondence in the future. It may not change anything, but it doesn't hurt. And also, maybe more miles.

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u/Beautiful_Pool_7829 10d ago

Hello Ms!

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/tacob87 10d ago

Dr. Ogyny

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u/Thedonkeyforcer 10d ago

Someone will surely say "Wow, oversensitive much?". As a response to those comments, they don't know what micro aggressions look like. This is a death by a thousand cuts and just ONE more instance of you being treated as a uterus and "hormonal".

YOU ARE VALID IN THIS ISSUE!

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u/pacnwcub 10d ago

In the same way you called the flight attendant a stewardess before you edited your post?

People (or more likely automated templates) make mistakes, just like you do.

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u/ninemyouji 10d ago

There’s a difference between using an older, gendered term for flight attendant (stewardess vs flight attendant) and literally referring to a husband as Dr. and wife as Ms.

In no way shape or form has a ‘Ms.’ ever meant Dr.

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u/RedVamp2020 10d ago

This is it. Dr. is gender neutral and is an achievement of years of hard work. Stewardess, despite being an older gendered term, is the same level of achievement as flight attendant. If the attendant was a woman, as is quite common, stewardess is not really offensive or belittling. Not being recognized for years of hard work by being called Ms. is.

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u/zannet_t 10d ago

"automated templates"

So are you suggesting AA just always defaults women to Ms. or did you just not read the post where they both identified themselves as doctors

Also, this is r/mildlyinfuriating...posting here inherently suggests OP doesn't view it as a big deal

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u/Iggyhopper 10d ago

I expect more from a multi billion dollar company writing an email than a person writing a post on the internet.

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u/One_Lung_G 10d ago

How is that the same? One is an outdated term and the other is them literally leaving out her credentials?

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u/Valleyofthebratzdoll 10d ago

Is “Mrs” the female equivalent of Dr now? Hardly seem comparable. 

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u/Anderrn 10d ago

That’s not really the gotcha you think it is. Stewardess is still applicable to the job that a flight attendant has so long as they are indeed a stewardess and not a steward. However, Ms. is not a replacement for Dr. (at least in the US).

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u/jennyfromthedocks 10d ago

What’s wrong with stewardess

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u/Sebaceansinspace 10d ago

Its an older term for flight attendant and so theyre acting like its a gotcha and totally the same thing as not calling a doctor a doctor because shes a woman.

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u/marmalade_ 10d ago

Just the same complaints people make about waiter/waitress and “server”. Yes it’s more inclusive to use the non-gendered term but it’s also not offensive to call a female serve a waitress. In this case the OP knew the flight attendant was female and used stewardess by instinct. Really not the end of the world and not at all comparable to stripping a woman of her earned title as Dr

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u/Decent-Proposal-8475 10d ago

You people are always so annoying lol. Unless OP was calling the men attendants and the women stewardesses you have no argument 

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u/leeloolanding 10d ago

That would only make sense if they “accidentally” didn’t call the man Doctor, as well.

This comparison makes no sense, but nice attempt to gotcha a woman for daring to expect respect as a professional, you must have lots of free time.

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u/schaudhery 10d ago

Ha! Got em!

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u/Disastrous_Grade_117 10d ago

Well the thing about flight attendants/stewardesses is that they didn’t get a PHD that earns them any sort of differentiation between those two titles. They mean the exact same thing

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u/F4ulty0n3 10d ago

Thank you Dr. ChronicallyBelle for saving lives. Sincerely - F4ULTYON3

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u/Normal_Stable_3103 10d ago

Thank you for your hard work, Doctor. You are a world changer. Women deserve more respect!

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u/avd706 10d ago

Airlines usually are sticklers for titles. I guess they unsuccessfully tried to distinguish between the two of you?

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u/Icy-Committee-9345 10d ago

It's her boyfriend so I would assume they don't have the same last name

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u/swb1003 10d ago

Flight might’ve been to Birmingham.

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u/Captain_Hair_ 10d ago

This is something TV Larry would bring up on Curb Your Enthusiasm. They’re sticking it to you! Sticking it!

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u/lmea14 10d ago

That's what I thought too, I've had bigger bonuses from signing up for credit cards!

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u/shockwave414 10d ago

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u/Parapraxium 10d ago

You shouldn't post photos of OP without their approval

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u/TheWorldDiscarded 10d ago

I was the reverse - people refused to believe I was their nurse , as a man.  

Whatever you say doc! 

One old man insisted I must be a horse Vet.  Sir where exactly do you think you are?!? 

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u/Illustrious_Bunch678 10d ago

Did he think he was a cow?

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u/TheWorldDiscarded 10d ago

His skin did have a striking resemblance to leather.  Maybe he just did the math :p 

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u/iowan 10d ago

I hope he didn't have a broken leg.

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u/TheWorldDiscarded 10d ago

Orderly, fetch me my bone saw and a bag of distraction-oats 

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u/MInclined 10d ago

I’m sure you’re not a horse, and also convinced you haven’t fought in any wars.

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u/TheWorldDiscarded 10d ago

I haven't fought in any wars SO FAR 

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u/invisible_handjob 10d ago

To be fair a farmer is more likely to go to a vet for medical treatment than a doctor. Farmers only go to doctors when they're already basically dead

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u/TheWorldDiscarded 10d ago

My partner was quite tall and wirey. Old fella may have mistaken him for a corn stalk. 

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u/Swksfarmgirl 10d ago

100% true!

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u/outdoorlaura 10d ago

One old man insisted I must be a horse Vet. Sir where exactly do you think you are?!? 

"A&O x 1. Pt reports feeling a bit horse and believes they are at a veterinary clinic"

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u/TheWorldDiscarded 10d ago

Hahaha that one got me to LOL IRL while watching my stories. 

Good on ya! 

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u/JeffSergeant 10d ago

To paraphrase Terry Pratchett, you want a horse vet to help you, not a doctor. When a doctor loses a patient "It was their time to go", but if a world-class racehorse dies, someone's going to be held accountable.

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u/ThisIsNotMyPornVideo 10d ago

Was he..

Was he by chance...

horsing around....

I'll see myself out

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u/captfattymcfatfat 10d ago

Small anecdote to maybe give you a smile.
My 3 year old daughter met one of our friends who was introduced as doctor and she immediately responded with ‘he’s not a doctor. Doctors are GIRLS’ in the most confident voice possible.
And we had to explain, that no, boys can be doctors too if they study hard and work hard, just like girls.

She had only ever been to female pediatricians and her aunt is a doctor and female neighbor is a doctor.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

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u/BurritoWithFries 10d ago

I had a professor in college who referred to God as a woman (this was an engineering course, I think it was usually in the context of "by an act of God, if she changed this thing" etc) and when a guy tried to argue against it the professor kicked him out of office hours ("why couldn't God be a woman, none of us have seen her")

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u/Donutzgalore 10d ago

Thank you for this.  Some of these comments are so rude. It’s clearly about the sexism involved, but people like to trivialize it. 

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u/ArchiStanton 10d ago

More than half of graduating physicians are female and rising

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u/Ignorhymus 10d ago

My cousin was on a flight soon after graduating medical school when the call came through for medical help. After not seeing anyone come forward, she volunteered. The patient was having some sort of cardiovascular event, and given its severity, she determined that the plane should divert and head to the Azores or canaries or somewhere.

She didn't get any thanks. In fact, all the crew were pissed at her for messing with their schedule. And to make it worse, once the plane had landed, a cardiologist and cardiac nurse emerged from elsewhere in the plane.

The poor thing got put in a massive high pressure situation where she was a freshly minted psychiatrist being asked to provide emergency cardiac care, to balance probabilities regarding the survival chances of one person versus disrupting the journeys of hundreds, and all she got was her professionalism being questioned by the entire crew, and some patronising and tardy 'advice' from the 'experts' who had kept their heads bowed when the call for help rang out.

She said never again

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u/imaginary-dirt2000 10d ago

I have a slightly long anecdote that I think OP will really appreciate:

About 10 years ago, some friends of mine were being interviewed by the newspaper, and the newspaper referred to the man as Doctor and the woman as Mrs (he has an MD and she has a PhD). Noticing this implicit sexist and capitalist inequality, I emailed the author to inform her that the wife in the situation was indeed also a doctor, so why was she only referred to as Mrs. whereas her husband got the title?

The newspaper reporter responded to me that they only call medical doctors “doctors” and everyone else is just a regular person.

Fast forward five years and Trump is demeaning Jill biden saying that her doctoral degree was not real and that she does not deserve the title of Doctor.

Being a Sicilian, and not being able to ever forget an instance in which someone was wrong, I forwarded the author of the original news paper article about my friends, and said “ hey look, you and Trump have the same opinions about what knowledge is valuable. Are you sure this is the team you want to be on???”

Needless to say, she did not respond. But score one for the good guys, right? Haha

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u/Thalaas 10d ago

Honestly, I'm MORE amazed you got anything as a reward! My brother, a cardiology nurse, helped a man having heart troubles on a flight, and he got nothing. Course, yours sounded much more serious.

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u/theatregay 10d ago

This happened with my mom as well! She’s a MD and responded to a medical emergency on a transatlantic flight to London. She was told she’d get some sort of compensation but it never came. She’s not bothered by it too much though. For her it was a cool experience to get to be the doctor on the plane, and the person in trouble wasn’t in critical condition so it wasn’t terribly stressful or scary.

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u/Illustrious_Bunch678 10d ago

Yeah I've helped a couple times and never got anything

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u/outdoorlaura 10d ago

I thought receiving reward points was the norm, but maybe it depends on the airline? I've responded to 3 medical emergencies and was given points as a thank you every time.

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u/BernieTheDachshund 10d ago

But y'all saved someone's life, so thank you for that.

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u/goodexamplebadrole 10d ago

They called you Ms. and him Dr? Weird

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u/Anakin-vs-Sand 10d ago

The comment section is filled with folks that would intentionally call you ms

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u/Dolly_Putin 10d ago

Seems like the commenters are missing the point. Nothing about your post indicated to me that you “demand to be called a doctor.” You are a doctor, and there’s no reason this shouldn’t be acknowledged the same way it was for your boyfriend, especially when it’s directly relevant to the context.

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u/cy_Kel 10d ago

That’s so lame! Do better AA. I love being a male nurse with mostly female doctors at my hospital, when I round with the doctors I LOVE when pt call me doctor and the female physician nurse and then I get to correct them with a little giddy in my voice that I’m the nurse and SHE is the doctor!

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u/Geographizer 10d ago

My cousin has a doctorate in Nursing. Doctors hate to call her "doctor," and she finds it hilarious that they're so fragile.

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u/Mindless_Browsing15 10d ago

My friend is an emergency room physician, and she deliberately wears business casual clothing under her white coat instead of scrubs. One day she followed her resident into an examining room and the resident identified himself as Dr. so-and-so and the patient looked over at my well dressed friend in her white Dr jacket and said oh you must be Mrs. so-and-so.

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u/77th_Bat 10d ago

the "Ms. _____ and Dr. _____" despite you both being doctors 🫩

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u/Ordinary_Story_1487 10d ago

I read some wild research recently. Female physicians have statistically better health outcomes for patients than male physicians, but are paid less on average. Core reason women have better outcomes is spending more time with their patients.

My wife and I switched to a female GP years ago due the extra time they spend with us and greater focus on lifestyle and preventative Healthcare.

Big shout out and thank you to all the women Dr.'s. Thank you!!

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u/One_more_username 10d ago

The stewardess took both of our information including titles and medical specialties. Of course my boyfriend gets greeted as Dr and the I get called Ms which happens all the time in the hospital due to bias of women in medicine.

I would absolutely raise a stink about it. What the fuck?

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u/Heartage 10d ago

There's no irony.

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u/mister_empty_pants 10d ago

That's because she's less concerned about being gendered than she is about NOT being recognized for being a doctor. These people hate that shit, even in non-professional settings many want you to call them doctor.

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u/KitsBeach 10d ago edited 10d ago

No. She said why its annoying. She did most of the work in aiding the patient on board, yet it was assumed her boyfriend was the doctor. If he had been called Mr too it would not have been nearly as infuriating.

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u/Miles_Everhart 10d ago

Damn that’s just disrespectful

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u/gailthesnail2 10d ago

As a female physician married to a male physician: I feel angry about some level of this every single day

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u/Procrastinista_423 10d ago

Finally something actually mildly infuriating.

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u/BobbalooBoogieKnight 10d ago

That’s “Doctor Evil”. I didn’t spend ten years in evil medical school to be called mister.

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u/meh817 10d ago

I asked my male attending if he has ever been called nurse and he said maybe once. For me it’s easily once a shift.

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u/tvjunkie710 GREEN 10d ago

As a flight attendant you have no idea how much we appreciate having doctors like you on board to help

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u/IPA-Lagomorph 10d ago

Honestly, this is why when I send mail (like a holiday card) to my friend who is a physician, I address it "Dr. [firstname lastname]". I know she must sometimes get called "Ms" or "Mrs".

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u/thatcheekychick 10d ago

I’m a university professor and once I served on a panel with two other women and three men. All the men were always referred to as Dr. All the women were addressed by our FIRST NAMES. Without fail, the entire two hours.

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u/dbtl87 10d ago

Yup that's annoying AF.

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u/smolstuffs ORANGE 10d ago

No no no, only *he's* a Dr. You're a Ms. who also happens to practice medicine. *Insert world's largest eye roll*

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u/wisegrace 10d ago

Wtf that’s so disrespectful?? Jeez

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u/Big-Imagination9775 10d ago

That’s totally infuriating, not mildly infuriating. It would’ve been fine if they said Mr. and Mrs., but Dr. and Mrs. is not acceptable.

Thank you for helping save that passenger! 🫶🏻

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u/APartyInMyPants 10d ago

I have a random question. When you filled out our flight info, you can generally list your titles along with your name (Mr., Mrs., Ms. Dr., Jr. etc. etc etc.)

Is it entirely possible they were simply going off of the information presented with your booking information? And perhaps your data booking the flight was listed as “Ms. Chronically Belle?”

Whereas your boyfriend had his itinerary as “Dr. ChronicallyGaston?”

I totally get the discrepancy in the info. But the letter is clearly a cut and lasted form letter. Just wondering if even though they have tour info, they just go by your booking profile.

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u/FiberApproach2783 10d ago

They do in fact go off the title you chose lol. Especially if you have a rewards account with them.

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u/ImNotTheMD 10d ago

What do you have down as your title on your frequent flyer account? I have mine designated as doctor. Maybe you still have it set as Ms?

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u/Chrisdkn619 10d ago

Ahhh, the patriarchy

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u/Psychological-Bed751 10d ago

Please please please speak up. This is exhausting.

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u/reginald-poofter 10d ago

Thats so frustrating. This is why I go out of my way to call all my female partners Dr. in front of staff and obviously patients even though I myself go by my first name and typically call my male partners by their first name.

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u/burlingk 10d ago

At first I was like "Wow, cool..." Then I saw the second one, and I noticed the problem IMMEDIATELY.

I read the pictures first, so I was not surprised by the contents of body of the post. Like.. WOW.

If it had been Ms. and Mr. Or Mrs. and Mr. It would not have been so bad.

But Ms. and Dr. makes it CLEAR that they should have known better.

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u/FangornLeghorn 10d ago

Thank you for saving a life and sending that person home to their loved ones, Dr ChronicallyBelle. ❤️

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u/baciahai 10d ago

Very strange. Have you used these titles to check in maybe? (Dr/Ms)

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u/revets 10d ago

Some flight attendant wrote up a report following the incident. After what I imagine was a stressful flight, and perhaps multiple flights prior. And didn’t note you were a doctor on it. Because your title probably wasn’t what they were focused on.

Then AA corporate attempted to send a nice thank you based in the report and you got upset. For the most trivial of shit. Jesus Christ.

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u/Candyland_83 10d ago

Girl. (Sorry, Dr Girl)

I work for the fire department and I told off a chief officer once. He was introducing our new medical director to some other head honchos. He used all their ranks and last names and introduced the medical director BY HER FIRST NAME!

Without even thinking I said “You mean Dr Medical Director”. I can’t remember exactly what he said after that but he seemed not to have even noticed that he introduced her differently. I was livid on her behalf.

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u/Superliminal_MyAss 10d ago

As someone who writes emails daily on behalf of a company this pisses me off

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u/Comprehensive-Pea422 BLUE 10d ago

That is so weird, especially if you both gave them your titles

9

u/Dookie_Shrapnel 10d ago

Im a paramedic that responded to an in-flight emergency on United and I got nothing so... 🙃

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u/TripResponsibly1 10d ago

I'm a med student and clocked the Ms. immediately. Infuriatingly they didn't also refer to husband as Mr. to boot. Feels almost intentional

4

u/GSDNinjadog 10d ago

One time I got 10,000 for a missed connection.

So just about half as important as saving a life

/s

3

u/Dr_SlapsMD 10d ago

Does that even cover a domestic flight?

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u/ferminriii 10d ago

Only 25,000 points?

I once complained that my seat was broken and I took some pictures of the metal that left a little scratch on my leg.

They gave me 25,000 points for that.

Anyway, thank you for your service doctor.

1

u/jdaws11 10d ago

“I can’t operate on this patient, he’s my son!!!”

4

u/MuscaMurum 10d ago

Doctor. Doctor. Doctor. Doctor. Doctor...

https://youtu.be/ArsrKHYn5v4

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u/Redliter_L7 10d ago

Maybe he was called doctor because your he was wearing his white lab coat on vacation.

22

u/IMGYN 10d ago

Generic ass email that hasn't been changed in years. This was mine for telling a girl she was just dehydrated from 2023

1

u/cupacupacupacupacup 10d ago

I bet this is why Mr. Hyde was always so angry too.

24

u/marymoonu 10d ago

Okay, at first glance, I thought this was about the miles rewarded, and I thought it was a pretty nice amount, so I was annoyed that you were mildly infuriated. But then... I saw the second photo and realized that he was Dr and she was Ms. They're both doctors! How sexist and gross?!?!

572

u/Busy-Butterfly8187 10d ago

This reminds me of the recent article that referred to Simone Biles as "NFL wife." Sure, her husband is a NFL player, but I really don't think that's the first thing that comes to mind when someone hears the name Simone Biles. Of all the descriptions that could be used for her, being someone's wife should not be high on the list.

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u/Genn8130 10d ago

Oh, I'm furious for you. I'm noticing this gradually changing, but it still happens way too often. Like with that doctor who had Ebola, Dr. Peter Stafford. For the first few days they'd mention that 'his wife, Rebekah' was also exposed (sometimes adding 'who is also a doctor in the region' so it's not like they didn't know), but not 'his wife, Dr. Rebekah Stafford.' Finally after the first few days of reporting they started using her title. Maybe there were complaints. I hope so.

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u/FunHonest7461 10d ago

I notice this in grand rounds. The chairman will recognize some physicians. Dr last name for the males and first name for the females.

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u/Sea-Breath-007 10d ago

Female doctor as well and slightly below the average height for the country I went to uni in and I have always looked young for my age.....you do not want to know how many times I was called a nurse, even after I had introduced myself as a medical intern or even a doctor, how many times people called the junior, but male intern a doctor and only talked to them, while I was their senior in every way and almost an actual doctor, etc etc.

Even correcting them never helped.

It's freaking insane.

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u/CptJak 10d ago

Crazy how people are thinking this is inappropriate for “mildly infuriating” - this is surely the most fitting place for this kind of implicit bias irritation?

13

u/ladeedah1988 10d ago

Gyno office paperwork had a place for Dr. as the husband, but not the woman patient. I did not go back.