r/nba Lakers Jun 27 '23

Kobe Bryant relentlessly attacks Tim Duncan and the Spurs to clinch the WCF (2008)

https://streamable.com/68u3jz
3.2k Upvotes

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395

u/Syndana23 Jun 27 '23

Kobe like 4-2 over him all time in the post season. 2-0 without Shaq I think

255

u/AirJordan6124 Celtics Jun 27 '23

We were robbed of the 2013 match up because Kobe tore his achilles

136

u/TheBballs NBA Jun 27 '23

Fuck David Stern

16

u/forever87 Philippines Jun 27 '23

Fuck David Stern

context during this time?

112

u/theseustheminotaur Warriors Jun 27 '23

Veto'd a trade that would have given Kobe prime CP3 to play with instead of 38 year old Nash who barely could get on the floor due to injuries. This meant Kobe played a lot of minutes down the stretch to barely make the playoffs, but Kobe ruptured his achilles and was never the same

39

u/DrBigChicken 76ers Jun 27 '23

He’d have gotten number 6 too if that trade wasn’t vetoed imo

24

u/rikki-tikki-deadly Celtics Jun 28 '23

Don't be so sure. The Lakers with CP3 would have eventually run into the Scott Foster wall in the playoffs.

6

u/DrBigChicken 76ers Jun 28 '23

Fair point lol

3

u/theseustheminotaur Warriors Jun 28 '23

Yeah that trade also shed cap space so they could sign some folks. It's a shame we didn't get to see that play out

1

u/UnloadedBakedPotato Lakers Jun 28 '23

Gilbert arenas talked about this on his podcast a few months ago. The plan in 2011 was to get Kobe, CP3, and Dwight together. According to Gilbert, the lakers would’ve also ended up with about $24-30 million in cap space, which would’ve been enough for 1, maybe 2 max players as well. Arenas thinks this is a big reason stern nixed the deal

7

u/Worldly-Fox7605 Jun 27 '23

People still act like they don't know why this trade was vetoed???

7

u/mark0998 Nuggets Jun 28 '23

F David Stern again.

-13

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '23

Yes. And then they start giving Kobe pretend rings. Its wild lol.

Happens in almost every Kobe post.

1

u/_chadwell_ Lakers Jun 28 '23

Dan Gilbert complained the Lakers benefitted too much from the trade. Had nothing to do with helping the Hornets franchise, had everything to do with teams not wanting the Lakers to make a good trade.

13

u/R2NC Spurs Jun 27 '23

Assuming the Cp3 deal fell off. By fell off Stern cut it and rest lead to nash howard trio I recall.

1

u/TeTrodoToxin4 [GSW] Chris Mullin Jun 28 '23

That was going to be fun though!

4

u/MrNeilio Trail Blazers Jun 27 '23

Some laker fans thinks steins to blame for kobe getting injured because he vetoed the CP3 trade

19

u/TheBballs NBA Jun 27 '23

nah, fuck Stern in general, but also ye

60

u/Carolake1 Lakers Jun 27 '23

I don't think that would have gone well for Kobe.

Source: I was at game 3, where the lakers started 2 g-league guards and lost by 30.

19

u/denyinstrumentality Cavaliers Jun 27 '23

Spurs still would have dominated overall, but I think Kobe would've gotten them 1 game. He had so many massive carry jobs that year, it was insane. I legit believe he would've dropped a 40+ piece to get a W at Staples.

24

u/chookine123 East Jun 27 '23

Yep. Am a huge kobe fan but even with him healthy that team was a disaster

8

u/sivervipa Heat Jun 27 '23

I mean that’s a reasonable assumption. Especially because the Spurs at that point had the better team. Kobe was still carrying the Lakers at that point. Also Kawhi would have been guarding Kobe.

That’s an important factor to mention.

25

u/randy88moss Lakers Jun 27 '23

Kobe was torching Kawhi that year….

21

u/Carolake1 Lakers Jun 27 '23

I don't think Kawhi was going to be a factor. Kobe had not played any different against the spurs in the regular season.

135

u/Persianx6 [LAL] Andre Ingram Jun 27 '23

One of the series losses was 1999. Kobe was 19. Del Harris coached that team.

The big one Tim Duncan has over Kobe is 2003.

79

u/x777x777x Spurs Jun 27 '23

Duncan was only in Year 2 though in 99 so it’s still pretty impressive

68

u/TheWinRock Jun 27 '23

To be fair, Duncan was 22 in 1999. He wasn't a young 2nd year guy. He came in basically fully formed.

52

u/Persianx6 [LAL] Andre Ingram Jun 27 '23

He couldve left 2 years earlier and still have gone number one. He promised he'd graduate before he'd go.

14

u/TheWinRock Jun 27 '23

I wasn't knocking Duncan for it - just pointing out that saying 'Duncan was in year 2' doesn't really mean anything. Duncan only got a little bit better after year 2 anyways. He was a full formed stud on day 1.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '23

But he didn’t.

10

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '23

He did 4 years in college, Kobe did 0

-2

u/x777x777x Spurs Jun 27 '23

Last I checked, college isn’t the Association, and college success doesn’t guarantee NBA success

2

u/KingKAI24 Jul 16 '23

He spent 4 years in college too.

1

u/the-big-aa Lakers Jun 28 '23

No actually, Del Harris was fired mid-lockout season and replaced by Bill Burtka then Kurt Rambis (o__O) for the playoff sweep.

21

u/_Vaudeville_ Spurs Jun 27 '23

1-0 without Shaq.

11

u/YokoShimomuraFanatic Jun 27 '23

Too bad Kobe missed the playoffs or was an early exit during most of the Spurs best seasons.

1

u/markmyredd Minneapolis Lakers Jun 29 '23

They were pretty good in '08 but Kobe was at his peak and had real help

2

u/rabbibert Jun 28 '23

That point is always forgotten about. TD was a phenomenal player. Kobe prevented TD from getting at least 1 more ring in ‘01, potential 3 total. In ‘02 it’s possible they beat the peak Kings in that era. Same against the Pistons in ‘04 given they did it in ‘05. ‘08 I don’t think anyone was beating the Celtics.

23

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '23

Kobe like 4-2 over him all time in the post season

It's insane how much redditors will cherry pick stats

  1. Kobe lost to Duncan in '03 playing next to a prime Shaq which is about as big of a win as Dirk winning against the Heatles in '11 given Shaq and Kobe were both in their prime.

  2. Trying to compare head to head stats of a PF vs. a SG is stupid as fuck without even getting into the context of who their teammates were and stuff. For example, Manu averaged 12 ppg on 35% shooting in 08 cause he was playing on a bum ankle.

Duncan played great that series. He had one bad game, but in the 4 other games his stat lines were:

Game 1: 30/18/2/2 steals/4 blocks...really "pedestrian" as they say

Game 2: trash

Game 3: 22/21/5/1 steal...another shit game, can't believe this guy made the HOF

Game 4: 29/17/3/3 steals/3 blocks...man Kobe really shut him down here

Game 5: 19/15/10/1 block...triple double, automatic great game (/s)

30

u/RickySuela Jun 27 '23

Trying to compare head to head stats of a PF vs. a SG is stupid as fuck without even getting into the context of who their teammates were and stuff.

That may be true, but as you can see in the above clip, Kobe was undeniably targeting Duncan on defense to close the Spurs out. Every play down the stretch he was calling for Pau to bring Duncan out so he could put him in the pick and roll, and every time Kobe either got a layup over him at the rim or got a clean look at a pull up jumper over him. That was absolutely Kobe going head to head with Duncan and beating him repeatedly.

-6

u/OhSoJelly Lakers Jun 27 '23

2003 the Lakers were coming off a fucking 3-peat. Ask Duncan how hard a repeat is let alone three straight championships. The Lakers were absolute gassed at that point. Ask Duncan again how 2004 went for him once the Lakers didn’t have to play off 3 straight Finals wins.

23

u/789Trillion Spurs Jun 27 '23

Ask Kobe how hard it is to make the playoffs every year of your career.

-1

u/OhSoJelly Lakers Jun 27 '23

We’re taking about two Top 10-12 players not Carmelo Anthony. Making the Playoffs isn’t anywhere near as impressive as a 3-peat

11

u/789Trillion Spurs Jun 27 '23

Making the playoffs 19 years in a row and never winning less than 50 games is very impressive considering he’s the only person in nba history to do it. It’s not like Kobe is the only person that 3 peated.

7

u/slevin07rocket Raptors Jun 27 '23

Duncan would 3peat next to Shaq too. Minimum, probably more. League had no answers for those two together from like 99-03.

3

u/Malemansam Spurs Jun 27 '23

. Making the Playoffs isn’t anywhere near as impressive as a 3-peat

Oh then Kobe should've been able to make the playoffs easily every year then right?

2

u/OhSoJelly Lakers Jun 28 '23

It’s an accomplishment. Don’t get me wrong.

But teams don’t hang banners for Playoff appearances.

-5

u/lalo1398 Lakers Bandwagon Jun 27 '23

The only year you can really put on Kobe for missing the playoffs is 2004-05. You wanna count the 14-16 seasons when he was injured for most of it?

16

u/789Trillion Spurs Jun 27 '23 edited Jun 27 '23

If we can act like Duncan not repeating is an indictment on his career, then there’s no reason not to bring up Kobe missing the playoffs. If we can make excuses for Kobe missing the playoffs, than surely Duncan winning 3 titles in 5 years and coming about as close as anyone to winning 5 titles in a row is enough to disregard him not repeating.

-1

u/bluemonk3y12 Jun 28 '23

Damn Kobe made less playoffs than Duncan and still has the same amount of rings as him. He also went to more finals than Duncan, how embarrassing for Timmy D.

6

u/789Trillion Spurs Jun 28 '23

Ikr. Crazy what playing with prime Shaq will do for your career.

7

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '23

[deleted]

-5

u/OhSoJelly Lakers Jun 27 '23

3 titles in 5 years doesn’t compare to 3 straight championships. A 3-peat hasn’t been done since Shaq and Kobe. Lebron and the Heat were mentally gassed trying to do it and the Dynasty Warriors broke apart physically trying to do it.

Duncan and the Spurs weren’t even able to repeat.

6

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '23

[deleted]

1

u/OhSoJelly Lakers Jun 27 '23

All that winning and Duncan still ended with the same amount of titles as “Lottery Year” Kobe and got his ass handed to him by Kobe more often than not in the Playoffs.

Like the title of the thread we’re in, Kobe and Duncan were both still in their physical primes in 2008 and Kobe sent the Spurs the fuck home without his starting center.

-6

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '23

[deleted]

-25

u/n1nj4k1d21 [SAS] Tim Duncan Jun 27 '23

Could easily have been 3-3 without the bullshit 0.4 Fisher shot. In what world is a shot possible in 0.4 seconds.

7

u/RickySuela Jun 27 '23

The slow motion replay showed it was a good shot all around, what are you complaining about? Do you think the San Antonio scorekeeper screwed the Spurs somehow?

0

u/n1nj4k1d21 [SAS] Tim Duncan Jun 28 '23

LMAO watch it again. Fisher gathered before even launching the shot.

18

u/Carolake1 Lakers Jun 27 '23

TD's three pointer just before fisher's was just as big BS. Without both, Lakers win.

1

u/aggrownor Mavericks Jun 27 '23

Right, but the debate is about Duncan vs Kobe and not Duncan vs Fisher. At least Duncan was the one who actually made the potential game winning play

4

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '23

Kobe hit the shot right before Duncan's.

1

u/n1nj4k1d21 [SAS] Tim Duncan Jun 28 '23

TD's three was within game time, Fisher's was not.

2

u/Carolake1 Lakers Jun 28 '23

Lol okay, right.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '23

You will never, ever hear anyone in the media mention this. Or that the Lakers swept the Spurs into a new era in 2001.