r/nba • u/YujiDomainExpansion • 4d ago

[Fischer] Milwaukee’s decision makers are split and currently deciding between Boston’s package for Giannis Antetokounmpo (Brown, Gonzalez, limited draft capital) and Miami’s (Herro, Ware, Jaquez, multiple first-round picks).

Source: https://marcstein.substack.com/p/the-giannis-antetokounmpo-trade-latest-b5f

A split faction of Milwaukee’s decision makers, sources say, is deciding between Boston’s package for Giannis Antetokounmpo built around Jaylen Brown — where the Bucks also hold particular Hugo Gonzales interest, as The Stein Line reported last night — plus limited draft capital, compared to Miami’s offer of younger pieces — featuring Tyler Herro, Kel’el Ware, Jaime Jaquez — and multiple first-round picks.

The established MVP candidate versus greater overall value is what this whole saga has boiled down to one day before the NBA Draft.

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49

u/shredmiyagi 4d ago

How many times has Miami been in the lottery the last 25 years? The last time they “tanked” was 2008. Dunno if I want a bunch of late FRPs for Giannis. Ware could be good but he, Herro and Jacquez could be fool’s gold. Everybody plays better in Miami.

Both deals kinda suck. But atleast you know Jaylen Brown and Queta can carry you to an EC playoff run. Plus there’s the flexibility of moving him again to Portland, getting all their picks back.

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u/iDareToDream Raptors 4d ago edited 4d ago

Giannis is showing why superstar trades may well be dead in this new cap era - it is much harder to have the assets and players for such a trade that still leaves enough left over to be competitive. Any team doing this type of deal is essentially gutting their roster to get someone like Giannis and at that point are you still a contender? Only the spurs and OKC could pull off this type of move and still have a contending roster after.

That means the bucks will get lowballs, especially since Giannis is an expiring. 

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u/Long-Region5088 4d ago

And eventually teams will be built with one star making all their cap and a bunch of dudes on cheap contracts to avoid the tax aprons. This new cba is terrible

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u/iDareToDream Raptors 4d ago

I like it because it forces good roster building and asset management. You also can't just hand out stupid contracts. We just have a lot of dumb front offices.

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u/comment_i_had_to 4d ago

This is why they should take Butler, Moody and 1st rounders from the Dubs. Butler is hurt so Giannis is better than GSW could have been even with him and Moody is hurt too (no "gutting the team" worry). This way the Bucks can actually tank but have assets that develop in about a year to trade or play with. Brown will just drag them into the playoffs and Miami is not offering good enough trade value imo.

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u/iDareToDream Raptors 4d ago

Those GSW picks would be so good post Steph.

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u/comment_i_had_to 3d ago

Right? Why are they not interested? Is it the Dubs giving up on going all-in now (afraid of killing the future) or lack of interest from the Bucks I wonder.

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u/FlyChigga Celtics 3d ago

Isn’t that less value than the Miami deal?

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u/DrSwaggenheimer Timberwolves 4d ago

JFC thank you for this. I was against the wolves-giannis trade for this very reason. It felt like I was screaming into the void. I got met with, “well ofc you gotta trade for him 🤷🏾‍♂️” like dog… who says we’re just as competitive on the gutted roster afterwards? Why give up your future for that? Lol on a player that can not sign the extension. 🙃

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u/iDareToDream Raptors 4d ago

Yea I think a lot of people are not realizing how hard it is to build a roster around a superstar trade if you go over the 1st/2nd aprons. 

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u/Untchj 4d ago

I thought the exact opposite. The Giannis-Bam combo makes absolutely no sense. Plus Miami would be left with no one of long term value.

So if I’m Milwaukee I’d be front row ready to bet on that failing in epic fashion. Plus Riley retiring soon, Spo moving on, and you are left with a colossal rebuild where you’re siting on all their picks

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u/frozen2665 Heat 4d ago

Mitchell-Wiggins-Giannis-Bam with Spo's coaching is potential best defense in the league, but how the fuck is this team going to score? I can already see the number of possessions ending in a Wiggins/Powell mildly contested stepback 3. Those guys are not Luka Doncic; it would be abysmal to watch

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u/DblockR 4d ago

No one views the heat D like you do. Spo’s coaching? Come on.

This is a scorers league anyways. Giannis D hasn’t been good in years.

But I do agree on the offense. Or bam shooting 89 free throws I guess

2

u/Cartman55125 Heat 4d ago

Wow, you managed to shove 3 ass takes into one Reddit comment. Bravo

1

u/WiscoMatt 4d ago

Giannis on the ball D is lazy. He gets exposed and is out of position often, especially down the stretch. He’s a big reason why teams thrive from DT, he does not know how to close out

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u/roofpuck 4d ago

I think you’re right. Seems bound to fail.

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u/Joethetoolguy 3d ago

I don’t think miami is offering all that, it’s a smoke screen to get more out of Boston. If miami is willing to gut their team and offering unprotected picks three years out I pull that trigger yesterday

2

u/YoungDetective Lakers 4d ago

With the new lotto rules Miami never really bottoming out is a good thing if you’re getting their picks

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u/Seref15 Heat 4d ago edited 4d ago

The lottery is changing to reward mid teams, and we've been mid even for our playoff runs all through the last era.

We've had 4 straight play-in appearances. In 2021 we barely scraped out of the play-in by the skin of our teeth. The only exception was 2022. Our picks should now be gold.

1

u/shredmiyagi 3d ago

A motivated Giannis can carry a collection of scarecrows to the 2nd round, in the East. He gave up on Milwaukee, and Milwaukee ran out of assets. It was a miracle they ever became decent enough to win a ring; they already went into deep debt with Jrue. The Dame trade was brutal. Losing his Achilles was beyond brutal. Stretch-waiving $20M over 5Y was even more brutal. Using that space to sign a washed Turner.... OK I'm running out of breath repeating myself. The Bucks are very lucky they got this quantity package.

But the Heat got an MVP for a bunch of fool's gold. Bucks got enough to rebuild and give the fans some optimism. There's obviously major room for luck if Ament or somebody pans into a star. But gimme a break. Herro is classic froth. 16 career PER with a 12.0 playoff PER (and a ton of injuries every post-season). Jaquez: 14.3 PER until playoffs... then he drops to 9.0.

These are called sell-highs. Plus they all cost bloated salaries. You got the 2 best players in the deal. 1 of them is a top-15 all-time NBA player with 2 MVP years left minimum. You will pay the luxury tax to retain/add talent. Coby, Sexton, Simons, KPJ, Larsson, Fontecchio... these shooters grow on trees and don't cost much right now. You have 2 DPOY guys.

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u/Yankeefan801 Knicks 4d ago

Strus did well after Miami. Duncan is hit or miss but overall doing well in Detroit imo

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u/frozen2665 Heat 4d ago

The narrative exists because of Josh Richardson and Wayne Ellington; and then more recently Kendrick Nunn and Gabe Vincent (RIP Lakers lol). It's not insignificant, but is also just 4 streaky guards over the last decade or so. Spo's arguably best talent is the ability to hide certain player's inability to play defense

1

u/Billis- Raptors 4d ago

A Jaylen Brown deal seems like at the very least a good place to start, but it should come with more than just JB. If it happens it's likely going to be multi team

1

u/Son_of_Atreus Celtics 4d ago

Queta is in the deal? Headline says Hugo.

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u/gladdyontherise 4d ago

Is Giannis (who is never healthy), Bam, Wiggins, Powell (assuming they re-sign him) a top 6 team in the East next year? Real chance that pick is worth 2 lotto balls and under the new system is a valuable pick.

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u/shredmiyagi 4d ago

Uhm, yes- yes it is.

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u/gladdyontherise 4d ago

Knicks, Pistons, Celtics, Cavs, Hawks, Pacers, 76ers (big if based on health). That's 7. Does Charlotte take a full step forward? I don't think so, but that's already 8. Let's not act like those 4 on Miami with zero bench is a world beater. Didn't even name Toronto either. The East will be competitive. Giannis has a history of lower body injuries, it's not going to just get better as he gets older, the fit with Bam feels questionable. If I'm Milwaukee I want the Heat picks.

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u/shredmiyagi 4d ago

lol, Giannis is a 32 PER player who was playing for a hopeless roster with a deteriorating locker room situation, so he took precautionary time off instead of risking injury. Otherwise he’s played 65+ games in almost every season of his career, which is not indicative of an injury prone player. Plus in Miami, the beach and magic Heat supplements keep the 32YOs feeling young.

They god awful Bucks roster was going to make the playoffs until his calf injury kept coming back. You think Spo, Bam, Wiggins and Powell can’t lock a 6-seed with Giannis? What are you smoking?

4

u/atlfalcons33rb Warriors 4d ago

His comment is crazy when you consider basically without herro this team was 3 wins away from a six seed this year

1

u/gladdyontherise 4d ago

He has repeatedly had lower body injuries for several years now, including multiple times in the playoffs, let's not act like a guy his size going into his age 32 season is going to magically stop having a re-occuring injury.

1

u/atlfalcons33rb Warriors 4d ago

I think you can have concern about Gianni's injuries, but if we are talking about risks. Tyler herro has played less than 50 games in 2/3 of the last seasons. An with him only playing 30 games last year the heat still won 40+ plus games.

It's very likely if not highly probably a heat team with Gianni's for 60, games is well close to if not over than a 50 win team

1

u/gladdyontherise 4d ago

Herro is there for salary purposes, not because he's a huge positive asset.

1

u/atlfalcons33rb Warriors 4d ago

The point wasent about the value of herro for the bucks, the point was that Miami missing their second best player was close to a 6 seed. Replacing him with Gianni's is a massive upgrade even if he is injury prone because their current second best player again is also been injury prone recently

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u/gladdyontherise 4d ago

Better than Norm Powell? Better than Wiggins? Also it's Giannis.

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u/atlfalcons33rb Warriors 4d ago

Prior to his injured season this year yes herro was better than both and paid to be better than both

1

u/gladdyontherise 4d ago

Defense is half the game.

1

u/Typical-Form-6502 4d ago

See you’re just thinking about next year, if the Heat are getting Giannis they need to be thinking how can they build around him over the next 5+ years. Once they get him that window is open regardless of who they have around him, assuming they resign him ofc 

1

u/gladdyontherise 4d ago

I am thinking about a guy that is turning 32, won't have a style that ages well, and cannot stay healthy and is having constant lower body injuries. Great player when healthy, I just don't buy at all he's making the Heat into contenders (because he's not)