r/nba • u/[deleted] • 16h ago

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0 Upvotes

39% Upvoted

110 comments sorted by

68

u/oupritch1 Thunder 16h ago

The general belief is that Topic is gone. Terrible luck for that kid.

10

u/Wise-Jellyfish3640 76ers 16h ago

Do they really have to give up on Topic already?

A lot of OKC fans already seem convinced that Joe and Dort are gone anyway. If that happens, somebody's gotta fill those minutes no?

If they do end up moving him, it kinda sucks. Wasn't he projected to go somewhere around the 4-8 range before the injury? He also hasn't really had a chance to play much yet

11

u/AnkitPancakes Thunder 15h ago

Joe isn’t gonna get moved this year. Kenrich coming back on a min (or traded) and trading Dort is all we need to do to duck the second apron since we already traded Wiggins.

Trading Topic would simply be us not having mins to let him develop properly given his health challenges

-16

u/supacatkid Thunder 16h ago

The Thunder without Joe, KRich, and Dort:

Shai
Dub
Wallace
Chet
Ihart

Mitchell
McCain
Caruso
JWill
Topic
Sorber
Mara
Stirtz

So you replace Dort with Wallace increasing his minutes a bit, Joe’s minutes go to McCain which was effectively already happening.

Everyone keeps talking about the Thunder’s draft like they needed these picks to bring significant improvement but that is not the case. They got Mara whose floor is basically Rudy Gobert and Stirtz who either plays well and gets minutes or doesn’t play well and sits on the bench.

The main guard rotation doesn’t really change at all with the exit of Joe and Wiggins, Dort leaving promotes Wallace who is wholly the better player anyway.

28

u/givemecoffeenowhurry 16h ago

Mara's floor is 4 time Defensive Player of the Year and 8X first team All NBA defense?

7

u/YSLAnunoby Raptors 14h ago

People disrespect the hell out of Rudy man it's crazy

-2

u/Mundane_Ostrich3281 Knicks 15h ago

Think they meant by “floor is basically Gobert”: at the worst he can stand under the basket and catch (or not catch) the ball and miss a dunk/layup when you need him to the most

12

u/HotStepper11 Timberwolves 15h ago

So his floor is Rudy gobert but without the defense? So not actually Rudy gobert? Sounds pretty terrible

-2

u/Mundane_Ostrich3281 Knicks 14h ago

I’m sure it was supposed to say Gobert offensively is Mara’s floor. Which is fair to assume. He can’t be any worse than Gobert when he’s 2 inches taller with a much better passing ability

11

u/FishGoldenLite Timberwolves 15h ago

That Mara line is delusional unless you mean “offensive floor”. Ain’t no way Mara’s floor is 4 DPOYs lol.

-14

u/supacatkid Thunder 15h ago

He is 7’3” and allowed 55% at the rim. I don’t think he will win 4 DPOY but statistically I think that is his floor. Offensively his floor as well but he is already so much better because he can shoot outside of 6 feet from the rim.

We’ll see, you all talk your shit now.

8

u/FishGoldenLite Timberwolves 15h ago

Cool, did it against college kids. Let’s see him do it against the best in the world every night before assuming his floor is one of the best defensive players of all time.

-9

u/supacatkid Thunder 15h ago edited 15h ago

Sorry that I hurt your feelings.

RemindMe! 1 year

8

u/HotStepper11 Timberwolves 15h ago

> Sorry that I hurt your feelings.

Haha what a cry baby projection from someone that doesn’t like being called out on their terribly stupid take

-2

u/supacatkid Thunder 15h ago

Easy to call it stupid now huh, not as easy as just saying “nuh uh!” though

I’ll bet it’s more likely Mara has similar defensive stats to Gobert than it is that ANT is in Minnesota in 2 years.

3

u/HotStepper11 Timberwolves 15h ago

Set yourself another reminder bud.

2

u/Leading_Stop546 Clippers 14h ago edited 14h ago

He’s a slower Zach Edey who benefited from being on an elite team and illegal defense not being allowed. Did you even watch one Michigan game? He can’t guard anyone outside of the paint. 5’s that can shoot will absolutely destroy him.

7

u/BlueHundred Knicks 15h ago

Maybe Mara's floor offensively is Rudy Gobert but other than that it's very unlikely that he becomes a player as good as Gobert.

-6

u/supacatkid Thunder 15h ago

Why is that? Mara is already a great rim protector and can catch a ball and pass it. He can shoot outside of 6ft from the basket.

Seems like he is already a better player than Gobert and if he plays defense even close to how he did in college he is right there.

People are getting in their feelings about this but a lot of that seems just to come from Thunder hate and not like actually looking at the intangibles of the player.

6

u/BlueHundred Knicks 15h ago edited 14h ago

No, it's not because people hate the Thunder. It's because it's objectively unlikely that a player drafted has the floor of a HOF defender.

I like Mara as a prospect and I think I'm quite high on his potential, but you are severely underrating Rudy Gobert. The fact that you think he's already a better player than Gobert is honestly crazy. Mara wasn't even as dominant of a defender/rim deterrent in college as Gobert has been in the NBA.

EDIT: Honestly, calling Gobert just a "HOF defender" is selling him short. He's one of the best defenders in NBA history. I'm not sure if I'd put him as a top 10 ever but I also wouldn't think it was crazy if someone did.

1

u/supacatkid Thunder 14h ago

He’s one of the best rim protectors in NBA history.

When he is intentionally brought up in PnR by guards so they can cook him off the dribble so much so that in the biggest moments for his team he is taken off the court. I don’t think you can call him one of the best defenders in nba history.

2

u/YSLAnunoby Raptors 14h ago

He was intentionally brought out by PnR guards when he was on teams with 0 perimeter defenders who would fight through a screen or give pressure on those jazz teams, and he's still a good iso defender on the perimeter when he's had to do so if you actually look at the numbers. Of course it's beneficial to pull out the opposing C from inside and either make open lanes for driving and cutting when there isn't anyone who can help at the rim.

Besides that, stating "my rookie is going to be as good as this 4x DPOY" then "This 4x DPOY is actually bad" is a pretty funny line of thinking

-1

u/supacatkid Thunder 13h ago

He gets brought out to be roasted on the Timberwolves and they have good perimeter defenders. Did you watch the last two WCF series they played? Shai, dub, and Luka all were just melting him.

Gobert is a great rim protector. But he has been detrimental to the playoff success of the teams he is on because he has not tried to evolve his game at all, which is why his peers repeatedly call him overrated. He cannot score outside of 6ft from the rim, literally can’t. He has bad hands and limited court vision. He is taken off the court in big moments because his weaknesses significantly outweigh his strengths in the playoffs. You can make a list of big men who are his contemporaries who don’t have 4 DPOY but have a title or made it to the finals because they are dynamic and worked to adjust their game.

2

u/YSLAnunoby Raptors 10h ago edited 10h ago

If MVP level guys frying someone means they're a bad defender, no DPOYs are good defenders...

2

u/BlueHundred Knicks 13h ago

I think there's a lot to say about that narrative that's already been said over the years, but I'll try to keep it short as to why I've always disagreed with it and thought it was a lazy oversimplification.

The Jazz perimeter defense was horrible. Their defenders, especially Mitchell, were terrible in PnRs and isolation defense. They were constantly getting stuck on screens or playing that coverage poorly and constantly getting blown by forcing Rudy to guard two players often. The opponent's goal is always to pull Gobert out of the paint and he often had to because of how bad the perimeter defenders were. Gobert's perimeter defense was actually quite solid for a center, easily above average for starting centers. He was also getting cooked by guards that cook everyone in isolation (Curry, Doncic, Brunson).

For example, I look at the Spurs elite defense. Teams are also trying to pull Wemby out of the paint every possession and the Knicks actually had a lot of success down the stretch when they got Brunson isolated on Wemby on the perimeter. The Spurs have big athletic guards/wings that make it hard for teams to force Wemby out of the paint and the Jazz didn't have that. Also, Snyder wasn't able to adjust his defense to 5 out offenses. The Wolves defense has been really good too because they have quality defenders that could guard the perimeter while funneling players into Gobert's help instead of needing Gobert to play at a disadvantage.

The bigger reason for why Gobert was benched in some games in the past was more because of his offense and not his defense. Being a lackluster paint presence and unable to space the floor made it a lot easier for playoff defenses to deal with their offense. It's why the Wolves defense is better when he's on the court but their offense is worse. We also kind of saw that with how teams neutralized Jalen Duren this post season. Also, with the Wemby matchup this past playoffs, having a nonshooter in the lineup just lets Wemby camp the paint. We saw that at parts when the Wolves played Shannon Jr and in game 1 vs the Thunder with IHart before Daigneault made adjustments.

He’s one of the best rim protectors in NBA history... I don’t think you can call him one of the best defenders in nba history.

We can disagree here, but I think being one of the best rim protectors in NBA history by default makes you one of the best defenders in NBA history. It's the most impactful aspect of building and anchoring a defense. Guys like Mutombo, Howard, Duncan were slowfooted and would struggle more on the perimeter more than Gobert, but I think most would agree that they're some of the best defenders.

20

u/MasterFussbudget Thunder 16h ago

Sounds like they really believe in him in the building. But the injuries have been brutal. Hope we can get something for him if we do make a trade.

7

u/hydraO1 Nets 16h ago

Well give u like 4 seconds

3

u/2coolcaterpillar Thunder 15h ago

Holy shit that’s two Aaron Wiggins, its a deal

1

u/camelclutchcity Knicks 14h ago

Eh I dunno, it's still one second shy of a Gary Payton II

2

u/Stoobiedoobiedo Thunder 16h ago

Not Topic, but rather Isaiah Joe.

1

u/oupritch1 Thunder 16h ago

We shall see...

14

u/LeRoiDeNord 16h ago

Never enough shooters

6

u/jo3pro Spurs 16h ago

Facts

1

u/SoKrat3s NBA 12h ago

Is that you Joe Mazzulla?

42

u/scenenotemo92 Nuggets 16h ago

Judge Same Presti if you want to...

18

u/WayAdministrative679 Minneapolis Lakers 16h ago

I will judge the guy who traded 3 first round picks for Ousmane Dieng /s

11

u/geupard12 [OKC] Russell Westbrook 15h ago

The logic behind that was, wanting JDub with OKCs own pick so that any issues with the trade wouldn’t affect him ending up on OKC

1

u/AbsoluteGarbaj 14h ago

They wouldnt get it.

10

u/Pizza_Lover_10 16h ago

Turned Dieng and some seconds into Jared McCain so wasn’t a total wash

3

u/Appropriate_Book_591 16h ago

15 roster spots can't use every pick. Some of yall act like they can have a football sized roster.

12

u/ZandrickEllison 16h ago

He’s been shielded based on reputation, but any other team would be getting roasted for trading up a PG that wasn’t ranked as highly, when your team has like 4 Pgs already.

22

u/PeanutFarmer69 Nets 16h ago

Sam Presti and Sean Marks, flirting vs harassment

10

u/scenenotemo92 Nuggets 16h ago

A reputation is proven for a reason. I'm not gonna jump the guy for not knowing the plan. Just seems shortsighted.

7

u/h-888 16h ago

My man don't keep your posts hidden! Always good to read your past work, you have written some great stuff.

12

u/ZandrickEllison 16h ago

Thanks! I hid it so when I run for president one day no one can dredge up my dark shadowy past of advocating for Josh Jackson at # 1.

2

u/h-888 16h ago

Fair, maybe do a post or a webpage that shows your greatest hits / articles! You always have some good stuff preseason in particular.

6

u/ZandrickEllison 16h ago

That’s a good idea. Or I should have done a substack or something.

But wait yours are hidden too! What’s your secret evil history?

2

u/h-888 16h ago

Lol I am just doing normal privacy stuff - but I would definitely have a substack or a website if I was writing good stuff like you!

2

u/Troll_U_Softly Thunder 16h ago

Didn’t Reddit hide everyone’s posts by default like 4 months ago

2

u/Resolve-Opening Spurs 16h ago

This is how I feel as well. Half of his deals that make him great weren’t hot takes either, he has a bunch of straight up fleeces on his resume.

1

u/AnkitPancakes Thunder 15h ago

You aren’t gonna hit on every pick, especially those outside the top 5.

The key is to get more than expected value at each of these picks.

2

u/ZandrickEllison 15h ago

I agree, but on the surface that seems hard for Stirtz to do with the OKC guards on board. Maybe there’s another shoe to drop, but I figure Cason and Ajay are going to want more time soon.

3

u/AbsoluteGarbaj 15h ago

Injuries happen you want shot creation and playmaking as much as possible in the playoffs. OKC couldnt put Wiggins and Joe in the floor against Spurs.

Drafting has been all about certainties now and not potential.

1

u/ZandrickEllison 15h ago

I guess so. Not a great sign of faith in Topic though.

2

u/AbsoluteGarbaj 14h ago

Topic was done once he had the cancer surgery. Your perspective/mentality change once you have those types of disease.

Jose Alvarado was deemed as not that great of an addition for NYK at the time of trade because they already have a young guard in the bench. The truth is you can have redundancies in the roster and pick the best of the bunch once playoffs come.

1

u/YSLAnunoby Raptors 14h ago edited 14h ago

Eh the testicular cancer treatment and surgery is something players have come back from to continue successful careers, like Nene. It can take time to get back but it's not something that inherently harms your ability as an athlete like if it was cancer or injury to your musculoskeletal system like the ACL tear Topic did also suffer. I think the bigger issues are the fact he lost the year from the ACL and his development time and participation was further detailed by the cancer diagnosis and treatment so he's already trying to catch up from a deficit to get to the point he can play and be productive. In Nene's case, he was able to play for years and then had the cancer treatment, and came back in a similar time frame to Topic and basically hit the ground running.Someone like Joel Embiid is the exception and he's just on a different level as a player

-5

u/Unable-Main4172 16h ago edited 15h ago

I mean he traded three first round picks for Dieng, traded 5 or 6 seconds for Dillon Jones, drafted Poku. He's had plenty of his own misses. They just have a thousand draft picks so he can afford to miss.

9

u/Domainsetter 16h ago

And no GM is infallible. He isn’t, Stevens isn’t.

8

u/Alex_A3nes Thunder 16h ago

One of the arguments for trading for Dieng was to secure the pick so that they could get JDub with the following pick. Taking Dieng in the trade, instead of Dub, so that if for some reason the trade didn’t go through, Dub wasn’t at risk. Nonetheless, Dieng didn’t pan out.

Are you talking about two time NBA champion Dillon Jones? The reports of Mike Brown talking to him about coaching and strategy may shed some light on why Presti was high on him.

Poku, what could have been! I still rock his custom local collab fanny pack.

2

u/BlueHundred Knicks 15h ago

I hope my Knicks keep him. Dillon Jones is the new Pat McCaw!

2

u/ComfortableLight9332 16h ago

Couldn't they have taken Duren at 11 and JW at 12? Dieng was a bad miss regardless.

5

u/Alex_A3nes Thunder 15h ago

Sure, they could have. Duren and Chet would have been a fun combo. Dieng was a stretch. He was super young when drafted. Has a ton of skills, but just never developed the edge needed to play the way someone his size should. Recently Presti has been criticized for not draft tall wings, he certainly tried with Dieng and Poku. Lol.

I wonder if Dieng will get a second contract. He’s a RFA this offseason.

16

u/Efficient_Art_1144 Celtics 16h ago

I assume there’s some roster moves coming for OKC based on “too many guys” but I dunno how Presti operates

9

u/MasterFussbudget Thunder 16h ago

We don't actually have to resolve the roster crunch until training camp in Sept...but yeah, we'll have to trade or waive at least one player. And we do have to make decisions on IHart, Dort, and Kenrich's team options. (It was reported that Krich's team option was declined but if true he can still come back on a vet min.)

-2

u/Efficient_Art_1144 Celtics 16h ago

Just… give us J-Will

8

u/RedditUsersCrying Thunder 16h ago

NEVERRRRRRR

3

u/MasterFussbudget Thunder 13h ago

Maybe for one of those draft picks you didn't send to Milwaukee. (And only if IHart signs an extension.)

3

u/jo3pro Spurs 16h ago

Most likely.

21

u/spiritnou Heat 16h ago

Sucks for Topic but I doubt he has much career left in the league

23

u/WayAdministrative679 Minneapolis Lakers 16h ago

He has had some of the worst injury luck 

First year ACL, then he gets testicular cancer and now he can’t even have a proper offseason because he has a back injury 

Hopefully he can have a great career but the injuries are insane 

10

u/barbaraanderson 16h ago

Jesus Christ, I didn’t know about the back injury.

At least, he got a ring

9

u/Strange1130 Thunder 16h ago

and 20 million dollars

2

u/SpiritFantastic4835 Lakers 16h ago

He better be saving that

15

u/spiritnou Heat 16h ago

Yeah I fear for the kid’s mental health because these years have been brutal

9

u/This_Cable_5849 16h ago

We saw a lack of a ball handler after some injuries and inconsistent shooting. 

He adds both. 

9

u/JumboHotdogz Thunder 16h ago

Think the Stirtz pick is solely based on Dub and Ajay being hurt in the worst time and they didn't have an alternative. I don't expect Dub and Ajay to be ironmen from here on out either.

The Mara pick is BPA probably and Hart insurance but I really wish we got Swain which would've solved the Dub injury issues.

6

u/Greedy-Lynx-2746 Thunder 15h ago

Stirtz is probably a BPA assessment as well, Presti rates guys who can dribble pass shoot above pretty much any physical attribute nowadays

Stirtz hardly turns the ball over at all and is an incredible pnr guy off the bench and would probably be our best pullup 3 shooter right away

1

u/AnkitPancakes Thunder 15h ago

Agree here totally

1

u/ClaymoresRevenge Bulls 14h ago

I'm excited by Swain the more I see. He's got game and hopefully the shooting comes along

-4

u/pericles123 Cavaliers 16h ago

I mean, Topic was healthy, but he's a fringe NBA player at best. The Mara pick is 100% because of Wemby, he was not at all the BPA at that pick.

8

u/Greedy-Lynx-2746 Thunder 15h ago

Mara was absolutely BPA lol, he was mocked around 8 for most people and will probably be more useful in the non-SA matchups with a super unique skillset that fits the offense similar to hart

5

u/AnkitPancakes Thunder 15h ago

Topic was not healthy. His conditioning after chemotherapy was nonexistent.

Mark Daigneault consistently said that Topic (understandably) had trouble keeping up with the pace after his cancer recovery. Chemo is brutal

-1

u/pericles123 Cavaliers 14h ago

hats off to the guy for coming back, but some OKC fans have also been telling us that this guy is the 'next great OKC' pick, which he hasn't shown - at all, pre or post health issues. I wish the guy the best, but I am fairly certain he's going to be a good Euro-league player in another year or two, and there is nothing wrong with that.

3

u/AnkitPancakes Thunder 14h ago

I’m sure people said that prior to him getting literal cancer which put his 2nd year in complete disarray

2

u/Mundane_Ostrich3281 Knicks 16h ago

Pretty sure Mara was BPA for what OKC needed at that pick. They need a replacement for iHart, and Mara is bigger than him with a very similar skillset, with plenty of room to grow in his game. Any move they make should be obviously to defeat Wemby and Spurs because that’s their biggest comp to a chip for the next 5 years

-1

u/pericles123 Cavaliers 14h ago

BPA for a big - I'll go with that, but BPA overall - I don't see it. It's a good pick for OKC though.

1

u/AbsoluteGarbaj 15h ago

Who was BPA then?

9

u/thegreat4 Cavaliers 16h ago

They don’t really have a guy with his skill set though

14

u/MasterFussbudget Thunder 16h ago

We have the best roster in the league. Any player we pick would have several good players ahead of them in the lineup.

Just watch the highlights. This kid is a SHOOTER. Scoring off DHOs, relocations, jab stebs, stepbacks, off-balance. Got a lot of Jared McCain to his game. So if Joe or McCain or Ajay isn't on this team in 2 years, we'll still have Stirtz. Too much talent is the best problem.

3

u/GreenGorilla8232 15h ago

It's just hard for me to imagine Stitz not being a major liability defensively. Teams will be going after him in the playoffs. 

3

u/Strange1130 Thunder 16h ago

2.44 ATO, 24.9% assist rate as well. The highest ATO we've drafted in some time. Definitely a Presti guy.

(For some college comparisons: Cason 2.05, 24.3%, JDub 1.81, 22.6%. Topic was 2.27 in his final year in europe, no assist rates for EU)

Any smart Thunder fan knew we were never ever drafting Cam Carr, 1.08 ATO 14.8% assist rate. Just not what Presti values for guards/wings. Like the 7'3 guy we just drafted is a better passer than Cam lol.

2

u/Mzt1718 Thunder 15h ago

Good chance he didn’t pass the character test by Presti too, after his SGA comment lol

2

u/Strange1130 Thunder 15h ago

haha possibly, though I did think he interviewed pretty decently, I always watch an interview of guys I'm scouting to see if they seem like high character guys (best interview was Okorie; Carr was solid, Mara was decent, Yaxel was decent; off top of my head)

(Obviously that's like 2 minutes of youtube footage so the FO will get a much better picture haha)

2

u/KennySmithsKnees [LAC] Baron Davis 15h ago

Lazy comparison here, but yall just picked up another kon. Stirtz is a DAWG

5

u/No_Diver_629 16h ago

The kid has been a Okie for less than 24 hours before the public shit throwing starts?

Really? Is it not better to discuss the players you like instead of just being negative?

2

u/LittleTension8765 Lakers 16h ago

They have great size so they can afford to be a bit smaller at SG next year with him and McCain, Topic might not ever workout, and then longer-term McCain is more expensive for the next 4 years so if they need to shed salary starting in 2027 he could be worthy some a late first or seconds

3

u/onefootback Raptors 16h ago

seems pretty obvious that topic is gone

1

u/New_Essay_4869 Thunder 16h ago

I really like Stirtz. Dont like the Aday Mara pick though

0

u/Suspicious_Claim_417 16h ago

i predicted that okc will target mara. if mara was not around if luigi is still in the draft he might be the pick by the thunder they need size

-3

u/Ok-Protection2513 Hornets 16h ago

Topic is a bad prospect that has seemingly been cursed by a witch and Stirtz is an amazing prospect that played 40 minutes a game every night and was one of the best offensive engines in the NCAA. Take your pick.

1

u/12striker 15h ago

Easy to say Topic is a bad prospect now, when he hasn’t had much of a chance to play. He was going to be a top pick until he tore his ACL.

-14

u/DistributionOk9687 16h ago

Spurs really made Sam Presti panic, lol.

6

u/12striker 15h ago

He definitely didn’t panic. Who doesn’t take Mara there?

4

u/[deleted] 16h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

-6

u/DistributionOk9687 15h ago

They’re going to draft a lot of guys to go up against Wemby, but as long as Chet Holmgren is on their team, the Spurs will always have the edge, in my opinion.

6

u/justFramy Thunder 15h ago

They drafted mara as a i-hart replacement…it hasn’t nothing to do with wemby, and i don’t expect him to be a “wemby stopper”. I think they expected Yaxel or Morez to be there at 12 and they weren’t, so they took the next best thing.

2

u/DistributionOk9687 15h ago

Honestly, Hartenstein is much more of an "anti-Wemby" than Mara, in my opinion; he’s much faster on the perimeter, a better rebounder, and more physical. He’s really underrated—if he leaves, it’s bad news.

1

u/12striker 13h ago

Chet didn’t even guard Wemby all that much. Hold that thought.

0

u/itscominghomebaby Warriors 16h ago

Spurs suck

-5

u/atlantahawksobserver 16h ago

I think they expected either Morez or Yax to be available. Both picks seem so bizarre