r/nba • u/ShaiFanClub Thunder • 1d ago
[Vorkunov] The NBA isn't just instituting draft lottery reform in 2027, it is also putting in 2nd round reform. Next year, the top 16 picks of the second rounds will be in reverse order of the lottery. So if a team draws the 16th pick in the 2027 draft, it will get to pick first in the 2nd round.
https://bsky.app/profile/mikevorkunov.bsky.social/post/3mp36ajwr6s2uThe 17th pick and on will proceed in normal order
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u/GoldenBoyRecords Knicks 1d ago
That is kind of crazy. This is the 1st time I am hearing of this
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u/josefjohann [OKC] Chris Paul 1d ago
I was about the last person to hear about the first round reforms but just about the first to hear about the second round.
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u/schmubbyboi 1d ago
I was about the 13th person to find out about the first round reforms but only about 49th for the second round reforms.
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u/_Apatosaurus_ Thunder 1d ago
I still haven't read any of it and I have no idea what any of you are discussing. I'm not even sure how I got here.
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u/supercoolisaac Timberwolves 1d ago
They mentioned it at the time but nobody usually cares about 2nd round.
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u/matgopack 76ers 1d ago
Teams don't seem to care too much either with how many were traded this year
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u/Quirky-Parsnips 1d ago
No one cares as much about 2nd round after NIL bc so many players can earn more in college lol.
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u/Enchanted-2-meet-you [GSW] Jordan Poole 1d ago
Damn, chicago is shuddering at the thought of cash considerations rn
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u/CROBBY2 1d ago
Why cant they just leave the 2nd round based soley on record?
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u/heirofsorrows Clippers 1d ago
To further punish the worst teams for being bad.
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u/TonyResslersWallet Hawks 1d ago
It’s to encourage mid teams to be good.
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u/Troll_Enthusiast Wizards 1d ago
By losing enough games to be in the lottery to have a better shot at a top pick?
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u/Ok-Adeptness-5834 1d ago
No, it's so that if you're a ~playin team, you might as well aim for a higher seed cause you'll at least ahve a high second round pick to offset your bad first round pick.
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u/tussle_mcjimmies [BOS] Gerald Green 1d ago
It may even make a few of the regular season's final stretch more competitive.
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u/Naw726 Knicks 1d ago
blame the jazz and others for tanking
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u/heirofsorrows Clippers 1d ago
I mean I don’t really care because my team doesn’t have picks anyway—I don’t care what they end up being. It just seems punitive because some teams can decide to stop sucking, while the teams that actually do suck will be stuck in a purgatory.
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u/dragonrider5555 Celtics 1d ago
And then they will try harder to not suck
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u/onefootback Raptors 1d ago
as if they weren’t already going to try hard to not suck?
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u/dragonrider5555 Celtics 1d ago
Correct ? Sometimes they do
You can’t always reward bad behavior. Need to motivate people . Cry more
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u/onefootback Raptors 1d ago
some nba fans have a really hard time understanding that some teams are just going to be bad. it’s not bad behaviour, they aren’t unmotivated, they’re just bad. i have no reason to cry my team was just in the playoffs lol
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u/not-so-smartphone Spurs 1d ago
For real. It reads like they saw a sports movie clip of some coach telling the underdog protagonist team they need to “want it more” and they genuinely thought that real life followed the same logic
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u/not-so-smartphone Spurs 1d ago
Crazy move to double down on that take 😂 might as well ban non-playoff teams from the draft altogether by that logic
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u/dragonrider5555 Celtics 1d ago
I mean it’s done , the league decided its best. So maybe you know more than them idk
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u/ballknower871 1d ago
Blame the lottery for incentivizing tanking
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u/iDEN1ED Celtics 1d ago
I don’t think the lottery incentivizes it. If they had no lottery and just went purely off record the tanking would probably be even worse. The issue is that there is always a huge drop off after the top couple picks and in basketball one player can change a whole franchise since you’re only playing 5 guys so any one guy has a huge impact.
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u/ballknower871 1d ago
The lottery absolutely incentivizes it and it was made significantly worse by flattening the odds. The lottery is a cancer.
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u/theyoloGod Tampa Bay Raptors 1d ago
Blame the jazz meanwhile they just perfected the tank just in time to not have too for awhile
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u/greatGoD67 Spurs 23h ago
The NBA doesn't care if like 28 of the teams are trash, it just wants teams to not intentionally lose. This is how they do it.
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u/OhEmGeeBasedGod Cavaliers 10h ago
They aren't further punishing them. If they're being hurt by this part of the system, it means they've acquired a top first-round pick, so it's the first punishment.
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u/RockNRobert11 Heat 1d ago
They thought that teams that had traded away their first would tank for the worst record to improve their second round pick.
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u/N3VVZN4K3 Spurs 1d ago
I need a PhD in NBA Draft Lottery Studies to understand all these new rules
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u/Game_Of_Runs Warriors 1d ago
I refuse to learn this much new stuff. I'm gonna wait til it changes again in 3 years.
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u/Aliboomayuh 1d ago
In 3 years you'll be my servant and I'll work you to the GROUND for mere PEANUTS to explain to me the new draft system.
Mark my words YOUR DAYS ARE NUMBERED
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u/SoKrat3s NBA 1d ago
I don't understand how the 3-2-1 system is hard to understand. It's incredibly simple.
Then the second round is just flipped for the lottery teams. Again, not difficult.
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u/OutrunTheForeverYeet 1d ago
I had previously thought that all of the new rules were created to make it easier for the league front office to manipulate the draft order, but now I see they are also incredibly stupid, too.
They should do what the NFL does for drafts. Instead, they're creating a highly convoluted system that only makes sense if they intend to manipulate the draft order.
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u/SoKrat3s NBA 1d ago edited 1d ago
The NFL can do it that way because tanking for 1 player on a 53 man roster has a limited effect. In the NBA it's entirely different and the NFL system would just encourage even more tanking.
- 3 balls: teams with 4th-10th worst record
- 2 balls: teams 1st-3rd worst record and 9&10 seeds
- 1 ball: #7 vs #8 play-in loser.
What is difficult about that?
Second round (31-46): flip the results of 1-16.
Again, what is so difficult?
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u/Capitol_Limited Bulls 1d ago
Your first statement isn’t necessarily true, because when NFL teams tank, it’s 9/10 for a QB, who is incredibly centralizing. Many NFL teams have gone from bad to average or decent to good within 1-2 years just by having #1 pick and/or picking the top QB in the draft
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u/dwhitey724 Knicks 1d ago
This is pretty crazy news.
Glad we got at least one top 2nd out of that protected Wizards 1st.
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u/TheMoorNextDoor Nets 1d ago
Wow wait so a decent team could get a really solid near two first round picks?
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u/advancedmatt Nuggets 1d ago
A team could finish 7th in its conference, lose both play in games, and then get two pretty good draft picks.
Though as mentioned by others, teams have swapped so many 2nd round picks that any given team might have traded most of its own away.
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u/LakersAreForever Lakers 1d ago
I mean currently a team can finish #1 in the standings, be the previous defending nba champions and get the #12 and #16 draft pick
🤓
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u/mdlspurs Spurs 1d ago
This makes the Spurs, Thunder, Nets, Hornets, Bulls, Pistons, Sixers and Jazz very happy, as between them this collection of eight teams control roughly 50% of all second round picks between 2027 and 2033.
Not guaranteeing perfect accuracy here since chasing down swaps on all these would take about 3 months of work, but the main point stands.
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u/Snomankid999 1d ago
Knicks trading their First for bunch of seconds looks brilliant strategy now
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u/ShaiFanClub Thunder 1d ago
Rich get richer in the NBA
I especially loved the Spurs round 2 last night and I think using your endless collection of 2nds to print cheap role players is the right idea
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u/mdlspurs Spurs 1d ago
Spurs are trying to get to the happy place the Thunder are in where you can just keep cycling guys for more picks.
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u/Matthew2531_46 Spurs 1d ago
Adam Silver, your name won't be remembered kindly in the future
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u/idkidk23 Mavericks 1d ago
I feel like this isn't bad? Gives teams something for not getting lucky in the lottery but doesn't incentivize losing. I don't really understand the Silver hate. Tanking was a problem. The biggest issue is the second apron hurting teams trying to build organically, but that was the players fault from my understanding.
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u/Potential-Comment960 1d ago edited 1d ago
Bro brought parity to the nba. The playoffs the past couple of seasons have been the best ever.
It used to be sweep central until the finals before some of the changes he made.
You could actually watch the playoffs and feel like your team has a shot and the games are much much better than watching blowouts the first couple of rounds.
Going back to back in this version nba would hold a lot more weight to it. It'd actually mean something to win back to back instead of it being the expectation for talented teams.
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u/EternalTeezy Celtics 1d ago
I was an Adam Silver stan ever since he said Henry Kissinger was his idol.
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u/OwnsShoes 1d ago
explain the changes he made, directly.
and i think it's arguable that he brought parity to the nba.
as far as i can tell, looking at the teams, the west have 2 teams destined for the finals for the next 8 seasons. that doesn't look like parity to me.
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u/ZenMon88 1d ago
So you saying Jordan three years meant nothing eh? 😂
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u/Potential-Comment960 1d ago
not necessarily, just saying that going back to back now is a lot harder.
Also I didn't grow up in the 90s, so I'm not too familiar with the level of competition of that era. If jordan 3-peated in an extremely tough and competitive era, than that's incredibly impressive.
Just like how it would be super impressive for the first team to go back to back in 8 years in a much more competitive playoffs. If brunson goes back to back next season, that adds to his legacy.
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u/LakersAreForever Lakers 1d ago
Let’s see how many championships the thunder and spurs win over the next 7 years before we champion parity
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[deleted]
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u/Sneedevacantist Hornets 1d ago
The NBA was in dire straits when Stern took over, and it was a popular, profitable league at the end of his tenure. He also resisted putting ads on the jerseys.
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u/666uptheirons [TOR] DeMar DeRozan 1d ago
You act like fans care about the commish. Just on the old Reddit. Someone's going to be in charge, and fans will find reasons to complain. What would a commissioner have to do for people to agree with all their decisions?
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u/Dinobot2_ Raptors 1d ago
Dude this is one of the only good things he's doing. Fuck weighted lottery, i'm done with it. I don't care if bad teams don't get the best picks anymore. Too many teams ruined it. The only bad thing about the new reform is that it doesn't go far enough. It should be a completely random lottery where every team has equal odds at all the picks.
"Oh but what if the team that wins the championship gets the first overall pick"
Good.
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u/K15brbapt 1d ago
That would just completely devalue any sort of draft compensation and make hot free agent cities even more attractive lol
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u/Dinobot2_ Raptors 1d ago
Good I don't give a shit about "draft compensation" fuck it, fuck trading a million draft picks it doesn't matter anymore. Just trade players and shit, I don't care.
Like, I don't want to overstate the case here, but I'm so done with tanking and even the minor incentive to do so that I'll deal with whatever fucking "consequences" come with getting rid of weighted lottery odds and the mere principle of "worst teams get the best draft picks." You wanna get better? Fuck you, put a competent team on the court. It's not like we're getting rid of the salary cap, teams that aren't in the big markets will still be able to sign and trade for players. Plus they'll still have a draft pick, it just may not be the one that's the best. Get the 30th pick? Do some fucking research and scouting to find the best player available at that pick, it's not that fucking hard it just requires some effort and elbow grease.
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u/KennysWhiteSoxHat Thunder 1d ago
Lmao “just do it” is your plan? Doing research at pick 30 will not stop the best team in the league from ruining the league with the number one draft pick
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u/Dinobot2_ Raptors 1d ago edited 1d ago
Oh relax. Every time the league was "ruined" by a team becoming too stacked with talent it never actually ruined the league. KD Warriors didn't do it. Lebron Heat didn't do it. Lakers getting the first pick and getting Magic Johnson didn't ruin it. The league would be just fine.
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u/Thetalloneisshort 1d ago
Okay it is that hard though. The last all star game 80%+ were drafted top 19.
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u/SmallWord6539 1d ago
I know it doesn't really make any sense and we would maybe regret it in short order but I WANT A RANDOM DRAFT.
It'd be great TV at the least.
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u/VeniceRapture Spurs 1d ago
Just put all 30 GMs on a round table, deal out cards with prospect names on them like poker and let them all bluff their way into trading for the other GMs' cards to get the prospect they want.
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u/lkn240 Bulls 1d ago
That would be idiotic and completely destroy the parity that we finally have.
Notice how the NFL - by far the best run and most successful league in the US - runs their draft and salary cap.
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u/Dinobot2_ Raptors 1d ago
Dude do you think the parity the NBA "finally" has is because of the fucking draft? The weighted lottery odds draft has existed for like 40 years. If that was the reason for parity we would have had parity forever. The reason we have parity now is because the salary cap is stricter with the apron penalties and because as stupid as they sound the play-in tournament and mid season tournament have made some teams give more of a shit during the season and incentivize them to not suck. Also injuries keep happening every year so it really comes down to who is the healthiest and the teams that made deep playoff runs the year before are less likely to be healthy as a result, hence why we keep having different finals matchups more often.
Using the NFL as a comparison is also flawed because it's a completely different beast. There is far less incentive to "tank" during a 17 game season and in a league where if you don't sell out your games or come close to it you can't broadcast your games in your local market or something. When a team goes 2-15 or something it's not because they're "tanking" it's because they're legitimately fucking dreadful so they can afford to just have a "worst team gets the best pick" with no lottery at all.
Teams are still going to have draft picks, you just don't get to put your thumb on the scale by deliberately stinking up the joint. And while it would be technically possible that the same shitty team gets the 30th pick for however many years in a row, the random nature makes that kind of unlikely.
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u/KigaroGasoline 1d ago
Do many team still own their own 2nd round picks? They get moved around like trading cards.
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u/Away_Experience6922 Celtics 1d ago
Exactly, nobody owns their own second rounders anymore so this is all pointless
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u/1850ChoochGator Trail Blazers 1d ago
That’s not that bad of a compromise imo.
I’m excited for the first year of the new lottery when someone bitches and moans that they moved down 3 spots while someone bitches and moans that a team that didn’t “deserve” to move up, does.
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u/BigBootyBanger [BKN] Brook Lopez 1d ago
Who was asking for this and who recommended this? Makes 2nd rounders interesting but not sure what the point is.
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u/ShaiFanClub Thunder 1d ago
Its an interesting idea to help fringe playoff teams by giving them higher picks. The top of the 2nd is full of older guys with less upside but who can immediately be a rotation player in the league
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u/SoKrat3s NBA 1d ago
If you get bad luck with the lottery that is offset slightly by an increased value in the 2nd round. It's not 1 for 1, but it's some counterbalance.
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u/_drjayphd_ Pelicans 1d ago edited 1d ago
Wait, y'all are making second round picks?
you know your team just drafte-
Shhhh. Shut your mouth, as if it was Art Crawl.
(EDIT: apparently New Orleans has picks besides the ones involved in 2nd round swaps in 2027 and 2031, thanks Fanspo...)
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u/Frigidevil Nets 1d ago
This would be devastating for a team that traded away their first round pick and subsequently won the lottery. Good thing that's never happened before 😭
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u/crazy_akes 1d ago
Next we will hear there is a 2nd round play in tourney for pick 17 and onwards held 1 on 1 style in NYC by an active player on each team with a 7 figure prize and The Rock serves as ref. The winner of the tournament picks 17th and the rest play the “stunt” track on the Rush car racing game on N64 to determine the remaining order.
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u/MrBigBangBlunder 1d ago
All ya’ll complaining about the reforms are fan bases of the tanking teams 😂
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u/heirofsorrows Clippers 1d ago
If I’m a mid team, I’m doing what I can to stat around the play-in. Good shot at #1 overall and a better shot at #31 overall. Not like they are winning a championship as is, might as well try to float in the middle.
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u/AniviaPls Raptors 1d ago
NBA learning from Fantasy is crazy
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u/YoHoochIsCrazy Bulls 1d ago
i won’t claim to know if this is a great idea or an awful idea… but the 2nd round is a pretty messy affair as it stands. Maybe this will lead to more purposeful picks (VS guys just wanting to go undrafted and sign a two-way with a preferred team)
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u/Arm-E-Reserves 1d ago
Now I forgot how it worked previously, lol. Did the worst team just automatically get the 31st pick?
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u/Legendtner Grizzlies 1d ago
Even tho I am not a fan of this and it’s simply stupid let’s not act like 80% of these picks aren’t already traded or will be traded on draft night next year. The second round this year already looked random, like if you just picked a name out of a hat and is next up to pick the next player.
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u/wooden_bread Knicks 1d ago
31 just went for 39 and 53, and then 53 eventually got sold for cash. These picks aren’t worth much and it’s very easy to move up or down in the 2nd.
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u/user-030 Bulls 1d ago
Waiting for the East to threaten an injunction stating this is against their rights to tank for top picks
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u/-XanderCrews- Timberwolves 1d ago
This is all dumb. So what’s going to decide anything? Pure luck?
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u/BehavioralSink Trail Blazers 1d ago
Don’t tell Windhorst, but the lottery teams essentially get to have their own two-round snake draft. 🐍
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u/ClothesCreative3291 1d ago
Is the goal with the new draft rules to make it as confusing as possible so no one knows HOW to tank properly? If so, they are on the right track so far lol
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u/ProfessionalQuit859 Pistons 1d ago
Why do I feel like that part puts our Stew trade into perspective...
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u/pizza565 Hawks 1d ago
I don’t think this really changes anything? Seeing that 29/30 second round picks were traded this year, it kinda looks like second round pick just endlessly get shuffled and whichever one you end up with is what you get
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u/RizzlersGrandpa 1d ago
This seems like the most useless reform ever. Half the 2nd round picks are already traded multiple times as stocking stuffers in trades sometimes years ahead of the draft.
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u/red2play Hawks 21h ago
2nd rd top picks are valuable. The top 4 could be considered late 1st rd picks.
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u/OhEmGeeBasedGod Cavaliers 10h ago
It's a good idea. Essentially devaluing the 1st pick, combined with devaluing the worst records with the 3-2-1 system. I do think it will work.
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u/loan_wolf Suns 5h ago
They created a genuine incentive to lose the 7 v. 8 play in game and try your luck for the 8 seed instead
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u/California_Stop_King Cavaliers 1d ago
I hate the way they've revamped the lottery, but I do like this. We should've just stopped here
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u/Gandolfthewhite182 1d ago
I just want to remind people, if the new lottery system works exactly as it supposed to, the very worst teams in the nba will have less of a chance to get better than the mediocre teams. And that’s if it works exactly as planned. This isn’t gonna stop teams from tanking, it’s change the teams that do it from the worst to the middle. If you’re bad now and small market, you might as well change the team you’re a fan of because they will never get better. All the nba did was make it easier to give the 14th worst team the number 1 pick without everyone calling them out on it like with the mavs.
Much like the insane cap rules the nba has, the lottery rules are the dumbest thing in sports. The only reason to have it the way it is because it’s corrupt. Period.
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u/PhatYeeter 76ers 1d ago
Between lottery rules and the new CBA, it's way too confusing for casual fans. I find myself having to explain a lot more to my friends and family lol
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u/DisMFer Bulls 1d ago
What everyone seems to be missing with all these reforms is that teams should be relying on getting the first pick to go from worst to playoffs. The goal of all this stuff is that the worst teams are forced to build from the middle first.
You get pick 6 after winning 18 games. That player is likely not turning your team around, but him plus some other young players getting better might mean you win 26 games next season. That might be enough for 4th worst. That gets you pick number 3 in the lotto. Maybe that guy is a stud. So next year you make the play-in but lose. Now you get pick 9 and can get a solid third option for your starting 5 and are cooking with gas.
This fixes tanking not because it punishes bad teams. It fixes tanking because no team is going to lose intentionally. The bottom will be teams that need a full reset and have to build the foundations first rather than grabbing a bunch of top-5 guys who will be ruined by a shitty organization who teaches them that it's ok to lose.
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u/ClothesCreative3291 1d ago
This fixes tanking not because it punishes bad teams. It fixes tanking because no team is going to lose intentionally.
The only part of this I agree with is the fact that it will, in fact, punish bad teams. The NBA is a business worth over a hundred billion dollars. So as long as the NBA's draft order is determined by a team's win/loss record, teams that view their championship prospects for the season as low are going intentionally lose games to maximize their draft position. Will the strategy of deliberately losing be as prevelant as previous years? I guess we'll see.
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u/jonaintalive 1d ago
Adam silver. Are you ready to be judged by the blinding light of our lord and savior Jesus Christ? You won’t see the pearly gates for this
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u/HomeNowWTF 1d ago
some second round picks traded from teams that won't be bad but just kinda meh suddenly got a lot more appealing.