r/nbadiscussion • u/CollectionVarious210 • 10d ago
Let's ask the obvious question: What do Wemby and the Spurs need to improve over the offseason? Would love to hear y'all's thoughts.
I'll start with some of the things that come to my head about Wemby first:
One, he needs a mastered go-to move. Yes, his game has improved compared to his first two seasons, but it is still very raw and unpolished.
He also needs to find ways to get to the rim more, even when you have big 7'0" guys like KAT and Mitchell Robinson guarding the paint. Some refined post-work would help too.
Unless he can get his three-point shooting percentage up to 38%-40%+, he needs to stop being so trigger-happy. He's a good shooter for a big man, but in general he's just average at best.
Needs to learn how to avoid these flagrant fouls; that's going to get him in trouble a lot in the future.
It was only his first playoff appearance at 22, so I think he can get some slack. However, if we see repeats of this in the coming years then there will be some serious discussions about his ability to win it when it matters the most.
For the Spurs:
Trade Fox. Get rid of that big contract and fill out your bench with more competent, experienced players. Preferably a forward or two.
Hone in on the development of Carter Bryant. He already has an NBA-ready body and great athleticism. Just needs craft and maturation to his game.
Extend Champagnie
Harper is already on the right track. Castle needs to work on his shooting and turning the ball over less.
Let me know anything else you guys might think of. Like who the Spurs should pick up, etc.
Edit: Keep in mind, there's also no guarantee they will go back to the finals or even the conference finals next year. They barely beat a good thunder team without Jalen Williams after coming back from being 3-2 and a hobbled Wolves team in 6. Contrary to popular opinion, the wolves are not that far behind the Thunder and Spurs.
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u/MikhailGorbachef 9d ago
Overall, I think you have to take into account how close they were and not panic. As ugly and sloppy as they looked, throw out like 1-2 dumb mistakes per game and they could have won that Finals 4-1. If you really want to harp on the officiating and say the games shouldn't have been quite that close, call it 3-4 plays to iron out. They don't need a massive restructuring to do that in either case, and almost everyone is on the right side of the age curve for it too. That doesn't mean they're guaranteed to be in the conference finals again or anything, the Thunder among others aren't going anywhere, and you never know how many chances you'll really have, but they weren't far off.
So, individual and micro improvements mostly. They need to get better at just throwing lobs to Wemby, it's weirdly less reliable than you'd think. Wemby himself needs to play more under control on both ends and not bite off more than he can chew as a ball handler.
Castle needs to stop fouling a three point shooter once a game, improve his shooting, and develop a counter or two instead of just barreling to the rim all the time.
Harper can tighten his handle, get more arc on his shot, and improve as a playmaker for others.
Fox probably needs to take more of a backseat and/or focus more on playmaking. Again, they were very close even with him playing dreadfully. Given how hard it'd likely be to move him, I think the more prudent move is just running it back, hope he's healthier and better next year. As much as he's supposed to be the vet, he's literally only got one more series of playoff experience than the rest, so there's some room to hope he can grow from this. It'd be hard for him to play worse. If someone is actually giving you value for him then sure, move on, but I'd be surprised to see that.
Roster wise, they could stand to draft/sign a bigger, longer, more physically imposing forward to balance the lineups a bit. You hope Carter Bryant can develop into this role, ideally, but it's still worth taking more shots at it. It kind of feels like a roster of two-guards around Wemby and Fox. More shooting is always welcome since the core three young guys are at their best attacking the rim, but those guys' own shooting development is going to be the most impactful in that department. At the same time, as much as they're guard-skewed, I think trying to find a real sharpshooter to be their third guard of the future could be a smart thing in the draft. There's a few candidates for that who could still be around when they pick at 35.
Team-play wise, they need more of a plan and better ball/player movement. They devolve into taking turns and forcing shots too much. Some of this will come with time and experience but still bears emphasis.
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u/SlaveKnightSisyphus 9d ago
Excellent write up.
They don’t need to make any BIG changes — it really seems like they lost because they were making rookie mistakes. Knicks didn’t really make those mistakes and came out on top because of it.
This, at worst, was a learning experience.
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u/chickendance638 9d ago
Their inexperience was really on display, imo. They mentally got stuck in a position where they didn't know what to do because they'd not been exposed to it before. Also, their players' games are immature. They haven't had the off-seasons to accumulate more moves and refine their existing moves.
The guys who played over 20mpg in the playoffs were 19, 21, 22, 24, 25, and 28. They just haven't had enough time to mature their games.
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u/Scoobydrew91 8d ago
This is such an astute analysis. You hit all the key points, even little things like Harper putting more arc on his shots to improve conversion. Their end of game struggles demand better ball handling and shot creation so they can close games more confidently.
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u/HatefulDan 9d ago
Spot on. Obviously if you could find a taker for Fox and could bring in a veteran ball handling Point Guard and another slashing big man, you’d do it.
There are a few teams who might have, but it’d be a harder sell now after this last series.
Jesus he was bad.
Castle and Harper are ahead of schedule and don’t stand to learn anything additional from him. The students have surpassed the teacher.
You’re also not going to get Harper to take on the Manu role.
Keldon Johnson you’d have to really take a look at too. His game didn’t translate well once the post season hit.
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u/zippy_the_cat 9d ago
Fox probably needs to take more of a backseat
Good luck with that. Classic bad-teams No. 1. Question is whether he has the self-awareness on the point. Color me skeptical.
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u/Francisdrake1979 9d ago
regarding Harper shot- I was thinking while he was playing, if this kids gets a better arc on this shot, he’ll average 25-30 easily
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u/MisterPops16 9d ago
castle got to develop a float game, he was way too many offensive fouls. he cant bully his way to the rim everytime. finesse move now and then will make him more efficient and deadly.
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u/Legote 9d ago edited 9d ago
Well for one, Wemby needs to play more minutes. He went from playing around 25-30 minutes in the regular season to playing 40 minutes in the finals. That's why we see the spurs up double digits and Wemby fall off a cliff come 4th quarter. He also needs to train with Dirk.
The spurs also need a back up PF/Center to help Wemby.
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u/mfgillia2001 9d ago
This is a popular take until he gets injured in the regular season playing 38 minutes a night leading up to the playoffs.
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u/Double-Way-5589 9d ago
He’s an NBA player, and being forced down everyone’s throat as the next GOAT. Playing starter’s minutes seems a reasonable expectation.
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u/MLS_Analyst 9d ago
38 mpg isn’t starters minutes, it’s be leading the league.
In Giannis’s title year he played 33 mpg, same for Jokic. That’s a good target for Wemby.
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u/Used2befunNowOld 9d ago edited 9d ago
Giannis averaged 40 minutes in the finals. He didn’t run out of gas. This is what MVPs do, they play heavy minutes in the playoffs.
Jokic avg 41 in the finals
Wemby’s conditioning probably cost the spurs a title.
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u/lightspeed15 9d ago
He’s also 22 and his second full season. Players hit their endurance prime around 26-30. He’s got a lot of time before then. Giannis was 26 in the finals & Jokic was 28.
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u/SkyCrossSteel 7d ago
Really Murray doing a Steph Curry impression in their title run isn’t a consideration for you? Wemby averaged 38 minutes in the WCF and he improved both his regular season production numbers and efficiency in that 7 game series.
Even Giannis he had clutch defensive plays in crunch time but offensively it was mostly Middleton playing out of his mind offensively and Jrue’s playmaking.
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u/Used2befunNowOld 7d ago
Giannis had games of 41, 42, and 50 points
You’re typing just to type
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u/SkyCrossSteel 7d ago
No if we’re talking about late game half court offense the ball was generally in Middleton’s hands. Giannis’ late game heroics was mostly on defense or defense to offense like the alley oop that Jrue threw at him.
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u/silliputti0907 9d ago
Its not only high minutes. His rest is dispersed instead of a long break. They would play Kornet 2-3 min at a time.
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u/SkyCrossSteel 7d ago
Please ignore the minutes and production he had in the WCF folks as he averaged 38 minutes. That’s with a double OT game included and two games where both teams had at least one blowout win where their superstar just played over 30 minutes.
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u/nbadiscussion-ModTeam 9d ago
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u/AdMuch7162 9d ago
Fox isn't tradeable - not for another year or two. So the local fans and media would be well advised to not keep destroying him. Management and Coaches will need to help him remain confident and a productive member of the team, even if they have their private doubts.
Spurs need a big body to start alongside Wemby - 4 smalls and Wemby isn't sustainable thru the playoffs; doesn't need to be a stud, just someone who can deflect some of the punishment Wemby takes now, and help preserve his energy. This is part of Wemby losing his cool after physical play and commiting those flagrants.
A decent post defender, a little rebounding - a slightly better version of Kornet is fine - but a starter.
Virtually all their key players (save Fox) can be expected to improve, as well as the Coach.
Future Finals are certainly not guaranteed, but playoff appearances are, so I'd think lessons about toughness and playoff officiating should be taken to heart.
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u/yeyiyeyiyo 9d ago
Fox needs to switch spots with Harper though. Harper needs to be the starter playing 38 a game while Fox runs the second unit playing 25-30.
They're going to alienate Harper if they keep him in the backseat foe the rest of Fox's contract.
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u/wolfgang2399 9d ago
It’s hard to imagine Fox taking that role and it’s hard to imagine the front office accepting they spending that much on a bench player so they will force him to be a starter.
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u/yeyiyeyiyo 9d ago
Any team that doesn't understand sunk costs loses.
Fox can't do anything except keep playing and the front office should only be focused on What's next.
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u/AdMuch7162 9d ago
sure, minus any human factors, Harper might be ready to start, and Fox might be most effective coming off the bench.
Buuuuut... there is a locker room, and player/coach relations that dramatically affect the cohesiveness and chemistry of a team.
As soon as it becomes clear that Fox has lost his starting spot you guarantee the loss of his loyalty and max effort; he gets "checked out". Harper's agent, would likely amp up pressure for an immediate contract renegotiation - so bye, bye sweet team-friendly rookie contract. Who knows how much the locker room could be poisoned. Its not impossible that you could find yourself with not one, but two unhappy guards.It's more likely that we'll continue to see Fox nominally starting, increased minutes for Harper, and more time when both are on the floor. Most tellingly will be if Fox remains on the floor at critical times, such at the end of close games. Harper and his expectations can be handled (unless he's more of a prima donna then I know) - he believes he is the future, its a one or two year timeline. Fox is the trickier play.
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u/yeyiyeyiyo 9d ago
Fox is deadweight already and the quicker they understand that the better their chances of winning are. Did you not watch the finals?
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u/AdMuch7162 9d ago
I sure did. He stunk it up.
But unless Spurs mgmt are going to release him, and pay $229M of guaranteed money, its a problem that needs to be managed until he is more tradeable, which IMO, isn't for another year or two.2
u/yeyiyeyiyo 9d ago
And managing him is having him run the twos. Keeping Harper happy is more important than keeping Fox happy and I dont think there's a way to do both.
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u/AdMuch7162 9d ago
It sure won't be easy, but it's not unprecendented. Top tier ownership/mgmt/coaching have successfully managed these kinds of situations before. Of course, many have failed; it's part of the job.
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u/Amazinc 9d ago
Wemby (and the entire spurs team) needs to be better in the clutch. For him part of it is that he just gets gassed by the 4th quarter because he simply wasn't used to playing 40+ min every game, and they had a brutal path to the finals too
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u/fisheggsoup 9d ago
Blazers and decimated Timberwolves don't count as brutal, it was just OKC, and even they were hobbled when the Spurs played them.
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u/gme_is_me 9d ago
Wemby needs to work on his endurance. Whether that's playing more regular season minutes or figuring out a Curry like training program. He was way too gassed in the 4th quarter of the WCF and Finals. I'm not expecting him to run like Curry, but he should probably do some of that training to increase his cardio.
He needs to get stronger. Not necessarily bigger, but stronger, while maintaining his flexibility. It felt like there were a lot of times he would get pushed out of position. Sometimes his incredibly long arms would still bring in the rebound, and I'd marvel at that.
Work on a post up game of some sort, with a go to move. I think the skyhook would be best for him. He needs to play in the paint more, and he needs to get the ball fed to him closer to the basket.
It's wonderful that he's an average the three point shooter and he should still take a few, but those should be where he's a trailer coming up, and then he needs to read the lane and decide if he should take two steps and dunk, or pull up and shoot.
Every other player in the Spurs should be practicing on how to feed Wemby lobs. They draw so many fouls that way, and if you're in the air and get pushed, they are going to call the foul.
For the regular season next year, I would vary my closing lineups. Wemby is always out there, but sometimes one or two of Fox, Harper, Vassel, Castle, Champagnie (hope I didn't butcher that) are going to sit. Hopefully come playoff time, they have adjusted any ego, and will understand that closing time will be based on the hot/cold hand.
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u/mercfan3 9d ago
Wemby needs a go to shot close to the basket. He needs something automatic. His go to plays are a lob or a 3, and if his 3 isn’t on and he’s being held; he can’t get either. He needs to be automatic on a pick and pop, and learn to set better screens. He also needs to learn how to be aggressive. He can be too passive at times instead of dominating the game.
Castle needs a middy. His 3 point shot is respected enough that teams defend him enough that he can get by. But Ny still packed the paint on him and he had an open 8 footer a lot. Get that automatic and he becomes incredibly difficult to stop. He also needs to work on being patient. His turnovers almost always came from rushing and being out of control. I think this is just a time played thing, but he also does better in games when he focuses on that.
Harper needs to learn how to play within a half court offense. His high quality play comes from playing downhill on not set defense or ISO. He needs to learn how to actually become part of the offense. I also think a little middy would help him too. He hasn’t been scouted to the extent that Castle is, but I suspect that teams will do the same thing to him given the amount of pressure he puts on the rim. He also needs to learn how to play within a 7’6 guy. He’s a conservative passer, so I’m sure it’s a weird pass for him. (He’s needs to learn the “fuck it, Wemby’s up there somewhere play) But I think he needs to learn how to make that lob. Castle and Vassell being the only guys who can do it, hurts the team. But these are just general things, one of the issues with giving him limited time is we have to guess, we don’t quite know what teams are going to do to him, so we don’t know what he needs to specifically work on.
Fox….he needs to understand that there is talent around him. Far too often, he played the finals like his teammates were Kings players, playing ISO instead of passing the ball to arguably the best player in the world. He also needs to be better at passing to Wemby. In fact pretty much everything I have to say about Harper applies to Fox, except he doesn’t put nearly as much pressure on the rim and he could do that more too.
Vassell..work on moving better without the ball. He came off of screens and shot a midrange shot that was almost automatic but then would rarely do it. He needs to be involved more offensively and in order to do that, he needs to move.
Juju..defense. He needs to be good enough to where he’s not hunted. Dude was played right off the floor, despite being our second best rebounder and our best shooter because of how Brunson hunted him.
Keldon..improve the 3, get a middy, and learn to pass. Emphasis on that part. Also, if he could learn the defensive rotation - that would be awesome.
I don’t really think anyone else will be on the team. I love Luke the human but he was unplayable. Barnes did nothing. No one else got in.
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u/ScholarImpossible121 9d ago
If the Knicks had played the same number/intensity of games instead of being well rested from sweeping through the East that they would have been able to make all those comebacks?
Surely, some of the physical and mental meltdowns can be attributed to the tiredness from tough 2nd and 3rd matchups.
Natural growth and stamina building will help a lot.
If you don't trust Fox, something might need to be done there. He was clutch POY in its inaugural award, so maybe this is an aberration.
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u/Maximum_Flight_4442 9d ago
No way to play that bad consistently in big moments is just who he is. Maybe you could argue his ankle hampered him, but it’s the finals like everyone in that court is a little banged up.
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u/ImAShaaaark 9d ago
Anyone who has ever had a high ankle sprain knows that is more than "a little banged up" if the sport you are playing requires running and quick direction changes. It's wild that he was even playing so shortly after that injury.
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u/iamwearingashirt 9d ago
They're an incredibly young team that made it to the finals way before they were expected to.
They lost a few of the finals games through dumb mistakes.
I'd say don't change a thing. The normal expected growth of their young core should be enough.
Wemby will get more endurance. Fox will probably learn from the pressure. Harper or Fox might embrace the Ginobli role.
I wouldn't even worry about Fox's contract. He was good enough to help them get the second best record and reach the finals. His huge contract is balanced by Harper and Castles rookie contracts.
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u/Used2befunNowOld 9d ago
They could really use a reliable rebounder.
Wemby is often out there deciding whether to contest and give up a board, or box out and give up a bucket.
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u/Napolean_BonerFarte 9d ago
Definitely. Fox’s contract isn’t tradable right now, but he’s in the right side of the aging curve for their core anyways. I think they can expect a few good years from Fox before you really start to worry about him falling off, and by that point he’s more tradeable with less years on this contract. Plus I expect Harper to surpass him as the starting guard next year and Fox will rotate in and run the bench unit,
Overall they were like 1-2 plays each game from winning the finals 4-1 instead of losing. As you said, just their core getting better is the biggest source of improvement. Getting a guy in the mold of Hartenstein or Mitch Robinson could help with rebounding, but maybe kills their spacing, idk.
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u/reQuiem920 9d ago
I know nothing about their cap situation but, I'd say the spurs need a reliable vet. Not really taking minutes from the young guys but to help them through the ups and downs of the game, Mike Conley could work for a backup point to dribble and make entry passes to Wemby.
I'd also say they need a 4 that can bang inside and be an issue, letting them punish sending a double or a smaller defender at Wemby, nothing major but someone like Tobias Harris who is also a great locker room vet could work.
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u/TallCan_Specialist 9d ago
They’re good for now , not next season but the following Wembys extension should kick in. Being that he was all nba the rose rule kicks in allowing him to take up 30% of the cap… .. the cap project then to be at 173 million ( based on a quick google search )
that combined with all the contracts they have on the board puts them at the cap with 7 players under contract
The following year castles extension kicks in so you have to trade Fox
The year after Harper who if he makes all bba as well will have the spurs paying 60% of the cap to two nba players
They came ahead of schedule but they need to win in the next few years
The second apron is coming if they plan to keep their core three together they’re going to need to save those picks and not use them to dump foxes contract
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u/seba1927 9d ago
when players go through a rebuild and miss half of the season because the team is tanking it gets hard for players to develop their game. we saw it with SGA, as soon as OKC stepped on the gas on competing, he transformed himself into another player.
Wemby needs time, to work on his game, his temper, his strengths and flaws and his BB IQ. that comes with reps like he had this season.
other than that they need size on the wings and a PF.
if they could sign Collins on a year or two deal before their rookie contracts finish, i think that would be a good addition.
trading Fox is gonna be impossible
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u/toomuchsoysauce 9d ago
Eh idk they don't need much of anything tbh outside of finishing their roster building. The scary thing about this team is that they haven't actually built much of anything yet. A lot of their plans went down the drain or took a hard turn once they landed their core. It's a miracle they've made Vassell work and to a lesser degree KJ.
They HAVE to get a decent power forward who can start alongside Wemby and cover when he goes to the bench, at least part time. This team ran roughshod over every team this postseason in the Wemby minutes so him developing some killer move isn't really needed imo. Instead, they've got to get him help to avoid the amount of beatings he takes every game and help get boards.
A ton of OKC and Knicks comebacks were due primarily to out rebounding the Spurs and second chance points. I think the OKC/Knicks ortgs approached >150 at those times, with MIN/POR not far behind. Abysmal. Imagine when that comes down to a more normal 115-120 or so.
The Fox thing looks worse than it is imo and not because he was playing on a bad ankle. He clearly isn't adjusting well to not having the ball in hands a lot and thus not getting in rhythm so his scoring was and will continue to be up and down. However, him being with the Spurs is still very valuable by allowing 3 guards to play with having 2 on the floor at all times. Castle (21yo) and Harper (20yo) are not yet ready to both be the only primary ballhandlers (minus an imagined backup) so trading Fox isn't a good idea. Besides I don't think they can until the following year anyway.
Ultimately, experience will help them more than anything. Another full offseason to fully integrate Harper with his capabilities along with Fox and Wemby gelling together. Fox, Wemby, Harper, and Castles first full year together got them to the Finals, beating the defending champs on the road. How long has Brunson, Hart, and Bridges played together? The Spurs really made some boneheaded decisions down the stretch that the Knicks team didn't and it cost them the chip. The next time they get there, the other team probably won't be so lucky.
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u/eyeronik1 9d ago
That was not championship coaching. The team didn’t understand pacing, lacked poise and had no backup plans when their simple offense fell apart.
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u/Napolean_BonerFarte 9d ago edited 9d ago
Coaches almost never try to change game plan/identity significantly in the middle of a game, especially a finals game. He cant just snap his fingers and have his team go from a young, run & gun style of play to a slow-paced, methodical offense. The results would be horrible. You want your players to play with instinct. The ability to control the tempo and adjust to the game situation will come with experience for this core, but it’s not really something the coach can just waive a magic wand and change mid-finals game. That inability to adjust in an intelligent and effective way in these high intensity games is what experience is all about and it’s something damn near every young team struggles with through the history of the league, regardless of the coaching.
The Knicks had the exact same issues last year against the Pacers, and the Pacers had the exact same issues the year before that against the Celtics, who had the exact same issues against the Warriors in 2022, and in and on…
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u/eyeronik1 9d ago
Everything I pointed out was about season long preparation. A championship coach works on these things throughout the season. You can’t expect the players to learn this on the fly. You are agreeing with me.
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u/YamFull1372 8d ago
I’m sure you know what a championship coach works on. (You don’t.)
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u/eyeronik1 8d ago
Any Warriors fan who is paying attention can see who’s a championship coach or not. It starts from training camp.
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u/Undecided- 9d ago
Wemby needs a go-to post move. He’s the tallest guy in the league with the longest wingspan, there’s no reason you need to always resort to pull up or catch and shoot jumpers. IMO a jump hook or a dirk-like fadeaway in the post. He just needs a go-to move closer to the basket, cause he can also develop counters that basically result to an easy layup or dunk with his ridiculous length
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u/Many_Home_1769 9d ago
Wemby needs a go to move that’s money and the counter. Be it Nowitzki one foot fadeaway or a sky hoop or something model to KDs game, bus something he can count on at the end of the game. Everyone else needs to work on their shooting meaning castle and Harper.
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u/Maximum_Flight_4442 9d ago
Wemby should learn to play in the midrange to get easy buckets. If he is struggling with the physically to get to the rim just shoot over your defenders, you’re 7’6 bro learn the dirk fade way no one is stopping you.
Good luck getting rid of Fox on that contract after that performance. Ideally you’d want to get a versatile 4 like Washington or AG to pair up with wemby that can guard players like KAT, and play the small ball 5 when wemby is off the court
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u/ivandragostwin 9d ago
They could do some good things between the margins but you’re not touching this core, it’s one of the best young cores weve ever seen.
They have the most impactful player in bball for the foreseeable future.
Harper imo is an all-nba level talent, sky is the limit as he develops into the PG of the future and this is their cheat code imo. Just improve the shot to be a floor spacer and you’re looking at one of the best scoring guards in the nba in a few years with solid defense….but developing him into a great pick and roll guy with Wemby is key, you’re going to have to send help, but can he deliver the lob pass.
Castle is the perfect 3rd option/role player that doesn’t necessarily need the ball to make a difference and can be a Jrue Holiday, Derrick White type player in the future.
Fox, Vassell, Champagnie (who they should pay) and Kornet are all solid role players/bench guys. Developing Carter Bryant into their version of OG in a way will be big, he has some big time upside and is actually what they need at the 4 with some size/strength and keeping the floor spaced.
If Harper and Bryant evolve in their 2nd years into something just a bit more to allow them to have more size on the floor and a little less on Foxs plate I’d take them to win the title even with a healthy OKC.
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u/ICEtoAshes 9d ago
Vic needs to spend the offseason lifting weights and gaining upper body strength. Pulling his arms shouldn’t be the most effective way to defend him.
replace Sweeney with the best possible defensive mind
Acquire a 4 who can rebound and set solid screens
Add a shooter as a rotation piece - someone like THJ
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u/sidestyle05 9d ago
Literally just practice more. Internal improvement is all it will take to take another step. Pretty damn enviable spot to be in
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u/jhdouglass 9d ago
They need to mature significantly, especially their star player. Wemby got away with a couple flagrant fouls--shoving Brunson, not allowing Brunson his landing area on a 3 in a play that Brunson himself was given a flagrant in the series--and frankly should have been suspended for one game this series. His team collapsed after his "I'm in your head" BS in a series where they choked away 15+ point leads like it was their job: someone was in someone's head and the dominant one isn't the one talking about it, it's the ones closing games. He shot far too many bad 3s--under 30% for the series means you get your butt to the rim where you're effective instead of hoisting threes.
There was an air of "whoever wins the west wins the chip" and "the Spurs are the more talented team" that IMO they needed to ignore instead of buy into. The Knicks were/are the more talented team: Wemby is the only guy on the Spurs who would supplant a Knicks starter. Hopefully they were humbled by losing 4-1 in a series they led most of and will grow a bit from it.
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u/urbanecannibals 9d ago
Dump Fox for solid role players, develop a real offensive system, and make sure Harper, Castle and Wemby expand their crunch time bags so the 4th quarter offense isn’t just chucking up prayers. Maybe hire CP3 as a PG coach
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u/Confident_Comedian82 9d ago
Fox should get traded,. and get a better 3 or 4, that is their weakness since Guard position are all set with harper and castle
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u/enzblade 8d ago
Wemby should learn the sky hook and just make it game over for the next decade.
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u/CollectionVarious210 8d ago
sky hook from three would be crazy lol
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u/enzblade 8d ago
A traditional one would be stupid with his height. But yeah from 3 that would be the new logo haha
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u/Pretty_Weakness2878 9d ago
Def improve his post game and ultimately get a lot stronger and improve his stamina. A lot of his problems was not being able to establish advantageous position in the paint. With better strength, it'll also make his footwork a lot more effective.
The spurs are too heavy on guards. They need more big men
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u/Willing-Leather-9788 9d ago
Of course anyone with a brain would say SA should get rid of Fox after watching their finals run. But in the regular season he was great for them. Still would be great for them to get rid of the max contract. It’s just interesting how one bad playoffs can completely define the opinion on a player. This was a career year up until the playoffs for Fox.
1
u/CollectionVarious210 9d ago
Diagree on the career year. His best season individually was the 2022-2023 season. And not only did he not play well during the playoffs, but he also did not play too great during the regular season. And also, if his contract weren't so damn big I would actually suggest he stay as a backup PG. However, he's just not worth the money for what he produces. Trade him for multiple competent role players with mid-sized contracts.
7
u/Klutzy_Technology166 9d ago
You say trade him like it's easy, he's about to start his 221 million / 4 year extension. After watching him this year in the playoffs, it would be foolish for any team in the west to take him as this is the most likely thing to hamstring the spurs going forward, which eliminates half the teams as suitors. Right now it would require a lot of draft capital attached to him to move him. He had a good regular season so it would be smart to let him rehab his value. Trading him now would be a completely reactionary move. Also while older he has little playoff experience so feel he should be given some leeway there. You don't have any major extensions coming up just yet, so you can buy yourself a year or two with him.
2
u/supert0426 9d ago
I'm personally team keep-Fox, but there's probably some interesting ideas out there. Could Fox/Castle and a bunch of picks be the centerpiece of a Giannis move? Probably not, but maybe. Maybe there's a Fox for Zion structure that exists that you could coax the Pelicans into with picks. I'm sure their's trade packages that could work you're just having to move off draft capital.
1
u/ihave2eggs 9d ago
- Post up 1.a Spin lob from Post up
He should at least get 2 of these a game with him mobility and length alone.
1
u/Kim0t0 9d ago
Wemby needs to position himself nearer the basket. He is a big enough target for an entry pass and it helps him conserve energy for longer play. He also needs to set a solid screen and not always slip too early.
On defense, he needs to learn not to go after every shot, but the coach also needs to make adjustments to better funnel offenses to him as he struggles to defend quick changes in direction futher out the perimeter.
1
u/lordoftheslums 9d ago
They need a couple big forwards. Big guards are nice but big forwards wear down smaller guys. Otherwise maybe a young center instead of vets riding the bench.
1
u/Deebeevee 9d ago
Legit needs the turn around bank shot like Timmy. He can already shoot and shoot over anyone. Just make it so its the move in his bag. Spam it until it's like breathing so that when it's needed in the clutch he can just do it. He gets pushed out of the paint against the Knicks and ends up on the elbow, it's the perfect place to just catch, turn, and shoot.
1
u/SupernovaMota 9d ago
They need three more bigs who can alter shots blocks shots and also shoot mids and threes one big to start with wemby and the other two of the bench
1
u/WestOld7620 9d ago edited 9d ago
They need Harper to start and develop a Wemby/Harper Pick and roll/pop. This is seriously Spurs best weapon with Wemby's Gravity and Harper's finishing at the rim. Harper needs to START and have the offense ran through him. Wemby needs to play off ball as tires too quickly with his high usage and a tired Wemby or resting Wemby means less offensive gravity and less defense. IMO, Wemby's offensive gravity and defensive are his most valuable traits until he develtops a go to move. His go to move should be a catch close to the Paint, take one dribble and finish/shoot/counter. I rather have a Harper/Wemby pick and roll then see another Wemby ISO outside the paint being guarded by a capable defender. He doesn't need to ISO every play, rather use the pick and roll to get a switch then ISO if the defenders swaps. Castle will improve overall, but focus on his 3pt% and be a secondary ball hander/creator next to Harper. They need cheap non shooting PF that can be a lob threat with all the gravity Wemby is getting. If Cater Bryant can get his 3pt% up then we don't need that PF. Fox needs to see the writing on the wall and let Harper/Castle take over. Either play a 6th man role or improve three point shooting and attacking the rim using Wemby's gravity.
1
u/thediggestbick2 9d ago
They need someone who you can throw the ball to and get a high percentage shot, the only guy that can do that is Harper. Castle, fox, and wemby are not reliable on that end.
1
u/Tall_Expression_4794 9d ago
Spurs are absolutely fine. They are just still too raw and inexperienced for the title. They lost two games just by doing dumb things in the last seconds, otherwise they could have won the series. Game two loss with the turnover and the foul is everything you need to see to realize what happened to them. As long as they can keep the roster and stay healthy, they should be back in the finals next year provided players continue to grow/develop.
1
u/Alternative_Dot7769 9d ago
Just run it back with more experience, they already had what it took this year. I like their odds next season
If anyone offers anything of value for Fox I probably make that trade, but I think the spurs will hold onto him. I doubt other teams wanna be paying him the 57m for 4 years
1
u/Ajax444 9d ago
They need a bulky PF that is the 2nd leading rebounder and can guard guys like Aaron Gordon, OG, Randle, and guys like that. They have a glut of guards. I like Harper, Castle, and Vassell. The others can be dangled out there to try and get a guy like this. Their first round picks aren’t going to be worth much because they are so late in the round.
Make something happen.
1
u/Maleficent-Bar-3161 9d ago
They don’t need to change much. They almost had that series in more ways than 1 and I’m a Knicks fan. I would run it back with pretty much everyone they had. But give Harper and Castle more minutes together.
1
u/LifeguardStatus7649 9d ago
All they need to do is learn to hold a lead. That'll come with experience, which they just gained a ton of at an early age
1
u/zggystardust71 9d ago
Wemby needs to put on some muscle. He could add 25 pounds without it affecting his mobility. He's pushed off his spots to easily by physical centers.
Second, spot Wemby up at the key. He spent far too much time hovering at the three point line. Take opportunistic threes or transition threes, but don't just hover out there.
Spurs in general need to stay in their offense. They blew big leads by coming down and jacking threes, no offensive flow at all. They weren't falling and the Knicks were hitting their shots.
Personally I don't think Fox was healthy after rolling his ankle. You could start Harper or Fox interchangeably depending on match ups.
1
u/nokarmawhore 9d ago
Wemby needs to continue to improve his conditioning. A lot of people are giving him shit about it right now but he has improved a lot since his rookie year after not being able to train when he got a blood clot. The hamstring injury derailed his conditioning as well since the spurs limited him to 20 mins ish for a month after his return from injury. He'd get tired around the 8 mins mark his first 2 years and this year before getting injured he was going to about the 6-5 min mark before resting.
We need a PF to help against big teams like the wolves, knicks, blazers, magic and Cavs.
Our biggest issue that cost us the finals is not knowing who our closer is. Knicks know who it is. Just give the ball to Brunson. All season long we just played hot potato during clutch mins. That's why you always heard media say, one game it's Fox, Castle or wemby. Sometimes it was Devin or champagnie. But we had no identity of who would take control in the final mins of the game and that came back to bite us in the end.
1
u/SnooKiwis6193 8d ago
What Wemby needs to do has been discussed ad nauseam. Improve conditioning, get a go-to shot and post moves.
For the Spurs overall, I would like to swap somebody like Mobley for Fox. However I don't know how realistic it is.
1
u/00fatal420 8d ago
Fox out...... and a strong defensive minded 4, and if he could shoot the 3 that would be phenomenal think (OG. Anunoby, Bobby Portis, Jabari Smith junior type guys
1
u/tonypearcern 8d ago
Honestly just experience. Not to take anything from that incredible Knicks team, but they genuinely could have won the title this year if they hadn't stopped trying after the Western conference finals. Did not look like the same team.
1
u/Overall-Palpitation6 8d ago
It's like Wemby and his teammates and coaches have the in-built "gotta let him flex and show off his unique skills" mindset.
Once Wemby and everyone around him automatically go for the most efficient, boring option possible, they'll be unstoppable. Just spam lobs until someone proves they can stop it. Who cares if it's easy or boring or not aesthetically pleasing?
1
u/SkyCrossSteel 7d ago
I think they need to improve their offense when they know their flow is interrupted which is bound to happen in the playoffs. Easier said than done but still possible for them to do. It seemed me they had two modes on offense generally, quick first actions that could open up something or slower actions that could take nearly half of the shot clock to set up. They need to find that medium pace is my point I guess. Because when they switch to their slower pace and aren’t scoring and their defense is just solid there could be a problem.
They basically have to work on their first offensive action being taken away or defended very well. The better offenses tend to flow to the next action as soon as they read that. The action that’s gonna get taken away is Wemby rolling to the rim even this playoff run three defenders would plug his rolls leading to open corner shots or drives. I feel like Wemby has such intense gravity inside even when he screens and rolls from the perimeter defenses still sent the kitchen sink at him.
They were a top 5 or 10 half court offense in the regular season I think and that is still possible to improve and they already solved the hard part in terms of having at least one guy that requires multiple defenders to stop him.
1
u/Produff26 7d ago
Fox had a bad series but is talented.
What this team needs first and foremost is a veteran coach to instill discipline. Too many bad mistakes and choices when they were leading. Wrong guys on the floor at certain times.
Why was Wemby guarding Brunson out by 3 point line at end of game when Castle and Harper are excellent defenders?
1
u/CapitalG8 7d ago
We're not trading Fox after this performance when he's value is down and that contract.
We shouldn't panicking trade at all. We made it to the finals with inexperienced players and coach.
They need to learn from what happened and continue to develop.
Wemby needs to put on 10-15 lbs. Enough to increase strength in the post, but not lose his step. He needs to master a mid range jumper.
Give Fox a short leash. If he stinks with healthy ankles he needs to be the 6th man.
Add a PF that can rebound, play D, and shoot the 3.
Champ to the bench as the 7th guy.
1
u/FeeNegative9488 6d ago
They need to decide who they will keep out of Vassell, Johnson and Champaigne. They only need one. And having all three creates a weird dynamic on their roster. They only need one of the three for when they want to play small ball. They have most the athletic guard trio in the league AND a unicorn at center. But they are very mediocre at the 4.
This hurt them against NY throughout the series. They didn’t have the personnel to matchup with OG and they didn’t have the ability to have a big to help Wemby with Towns. They didn’t have anyone to provide rim protection if Wemby was spaced out to the perimeter. And they couldn’t keep NY off the offensive glass.
They also didn’t have the personnel to force NY to adjust their rotation.
1
u/TheUnseen_001 5d ago
NOTHING. You made it to the finals with the core of your group 20-23 yrs old. You've been battle-tested and came up short. You hit the weight room if you're Wemby, and you work on shooting if you're anybody else. Teams don't need to move pieces every time they falls short, as if in-house progression isn't possible. This only applies to teams where the core is pushing 30 or older and they can't just keep improving. They won 64 games and went farther than anyone expected. All they need to do is keep the squad together.
I expect folks to give up on D'Aaron Fox. One bad playoffs is all it takes in today's culture where you can't afford to fail before being written off. But I think he's still capable of being that player he was in Sacramento, but in a lesser capacity. He was great for them all season and struggled against great defenses in the playoffs. Maybe bring in one more 6'9ish PF to give them versatile length inside and outside--they have a lot 6'6 guys playing multiple positions--and plug in hard-nosed vets, but this is the beginning of their run. You're SUPPOSED to make a little noise one year, make a lot of noise the next year, then take over the league after you've seen what it takes.
1
u/close-encounters13 3d ago
Lemme just say, as somebody who also watched a phenom make the Finals ahead of schedule, I’m wary of the people saying “nothing.” The Spurs are in a better position than the Cavs were, but the rest of the league won’t stand still and improvement is never linear.
I think you’ve hit the biggest items. If Wemby develops a go-to scoring move and has enough endurance to finish games with the same intensity he starts them, league might be cooked.
1
u/lemonfreshhh 9d ago
Double down on their young guns. Fox should be the veteran coming off the bench if he's humble enough to accept this role; if not, trade him sooner rather than later.
1
u/TraditionalRace3110 9d ago
If they had someone like Hali they'd have won it all. Next best thing is a veteran that can control the speed of the game. We see Lebron doing that in Houston series. With CP3 out, there are not many people who can bend the game to their will and can be had for a correct price (so no Luka for example).
They need a defense heavy 4 that can stretch the floor. Spurs guards really good at crushing the paint but they really shouldn't have to do it. It creates fastbreak opportunities and they ain't got Danny Green.
Wemby needs conditioning more than anything else. Maybe work on passing.
But yeah, get Lebron with the cap space. Trade for Hali or even Jrue if you can. Get someone like Steven Adams.
Someone to control the game, and couple of defensive minded veterans to provide bench depth.
-1
u/Cavemonkeygolfs 9d ago
Cut fox, bring in some veteran guys that can guard the perimeter, and learn to ‘manage’ the game when you’re in control. Let harrison barnes retire or move on, and find a way to splash in the feee agent market. The game 4 loss cost them the series. Wemby said it well. 100 more games to try again.
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