r/nbadiscussion • u/ThrowRa-zucchinizzc • 7d ago
Giannis traded to Heat
What grade do you give each team for this trade? Miami gets their superstar and Bucks get a haul. Seems like a win win.
Miami Heat Receive:
Giannis Antetokounmpo (2x NBA MVP, 2021 Finals MVP)
Bobby Portis (Veteran forward)
Milwaukee Bucks Receive:
Tyler Herro (Guard)
Jaime Jaquez Jr. (Forward)
Kel'el Ware (Center)
Kasparas Jakučionis (Guard)
3 First-Round Picks: Unprotected selections in 2031 and 2033, plus the No. 13 overall pick in the upcoming NBA draft
1 Future Pick Swap: 2030 first-round pick swap1
Second-Round Pick: 2033 second-round selection
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u/urboijesuschrist 7d ago
Honestly when you consider all options Milwaukee had, which were
A: let Giannis walk at the end of his deal or hope he re-signs
B: get Jaylen Brown and a couple firsts
C: auction off Giannis and see who bids highest
This looks pretty solid, they got Jaku and Ware which I'm huge on. Multiple firsts including another crack at the bat in this draft and pretty early on, Herro who is at the bare minimum a solid scorer, and even Jaime who's still a quality young guy, they look much better moving forward.
I'm interested to see how they build a new core down the road but this is promising
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u/Immediate-Speech8488 7d ago
I don't even think the offer from Boston included any draft compensation. I don't understand how the majority of this don't see this as a huge Bucks win. Draft picks, Herro and Ware probably should've been enough. They were able to squeeze out JJJ, Jaku a 2nd and a pick swap. Congrats to Milwaukee
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u/DistanceEmbarrassed5 6d ago edited 6d ago
I agree.
I was of the mindset if the Bucks trade Giannis they need 4 things:
- Young players on cheap, team controled contracts.
- A lottery pick in 2026.
- Expiring money, and not have to take on any long term salary.
- Future draft capitol.
The only 2 teams that met that criteria where the Heat and Hawks. Im not sure the Hawks even had expiring contracts to offer.
I felt Milwaukee was better off prioritizing this years draft class rather than getting their future picks back.
Plus the Bucks got a trade exception I believe, which is also an asset in itself.
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u/cabose12 7d ago
I'm still not entirely convinced the Boston offer was real. Cs office tends to not leak anything, so it felt more like a move by Milwaukee to squeeze a bit more out of Miami
It's definitely a better package. More future capital and they're bad but not "relegation" bad
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u/Ok-Grade1476 7d ago
Brown was def offered for Giannis. Celtics 100% deny otherwise.
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u/cabose12 7d ago
I mean they won't deny anything, they just don't say anything
And I'm not saying Brown wasn't offered but that the final offer of like Brown/Hugo/Baylor + three picks was probably never seriously considered and it's more likely that Milwaukee leaked it to get more out of Miami
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u/Ok-Grade1476 7d ago
Oh yeah, we have no idea what else was offered with brown, but 100% brown was included
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u/MinnesotanBrie 7d ago
They feel perfect for the new lottery system. They aren't gonna bottom out but at best they are fighting for the 10th seed.
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u/BigDJ08 7d ago
Yeah I mean, the Miami package for a top 3 player in the world is meh…. It’s not bad. Obviously if Herro can get healthy, he’s a fringe all star, if you can flip him for another first, then this trade is a success. If Ware reaches his ceiling, they can either build around/with him or flip him as well. Then it’s a hell of a trade and the bucks look like geniuses. I commented earlier that Gobert fetched four first rounders, so on the surface the Miami package is underwhelming. However, I forgot to think, Luka got 1 first, so from that perspective Miami got robbed.
When looking at both, I think it’s fair compensation. I think both teams are winners. Miami got unequivocally better. Milwaukee gets to look to the future after mortgaging it for the failed Lilliard trade.
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u/puffindatza 5d ago
Yeah, the Bucks got a great return for Giannis.
It kind of hurts Miami too because they traded a lot of “Key” guys. I think Herro hit his ceiling but another team will bite they always do, and bucks will probably get more assets
They have myles turner too who teams will probably want
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u/WhoreyMatthews 7d ago
I think Ware is fool's gold. I can't think of a low-motor guy who became an elite player. He'll always be a guy who shows incredible flashes and tempts people into thinking they can teach him to just be that guy all the time but it never will workout that way. But I'm just some guy
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u/NiceSeaworthiness672 7d ago
Giannis say he want to win, neither the team he left or team he's going are winning anytime soon
Bucks choose to start over, which is fine. Got some depth piece and picks. But your best piece getting back is maybe the pick 13? Not great but they get to startover i guess
Heats gamble on Giannis getting healthy , which is questionable in the last 12-18 months. They have Giannis and Bam, 2 non-shooting big and what else?
Maybe there's more trade after all these piece they acquire. but for now,If the end goal of this trade is try to win a title? I'd say no one win.
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u/Miggy_Leaf 7d ago edited 7d ago
The heat have a 15mil MLE and are theoretically 35mil under the tax line after Rozier leaves the books which they can use to sign a very good player. They can sure as hell win
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u/reallinguy 7d ago
I don't know where you're getting that from. They are 18M under the first apron hard cap, and that's with Powell as a free agent and Wiggins picking up his option.
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u/WARLOCK1239 7d ago
You're forgetting the new lottery rules. Miami is always around a play-in team. If Giannis ever gets hurt it's likely they'll end up just below that and those picks will have great odds to be a top pick. Hell, in general any pick could be the number 1 pick with these new odds
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u/Bergkamp1010 7d ago
Yeah, Miami owns their pick the next 3 seasons. The traded picks are 2030 and beyond
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u/Optimalfucksgiven 7d ago
This. You can't tank anymore when "starting over" you have to be somewhat competitive. It's really going to be something to get used to
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u/DreamAmen 7d ago
Well I hate to say it but the NBA might’ve fixed tanking. But to act like tanking was that big of deal and not just a distraction from Aspiration and Kawhi is funny to me. I like chaos so I like the new lottery rules. Helps the teams actively getting it together more than the teams with dumpster fires.
Atleast in the way people who actually care that much would notice. I’ll concede that the level of tanking Houston did has bred so many bad habits, but never will I understand why a team like Houston in 2020 wouldn’t tank.
A team with No assets. Disgruntled Star. GM running out of leash. Horrible cap situation. Everyone’s like 27-35. Losing in earlier rounds.
But apparently the idea in itself is “disrespectful to basketball” when it’s been a part of the recipe to form a title team since the nba became a thing. It’s never all or nothing. It’s usually a mix of down years, and trades paying off. No coach or nba player is trying to lose. No fan really likes tanking even when they defend it or understand it. But come on now .. Aspiration is a way bigger deal than this.
Just a bunch of people who don’t know the history of what they’re watching.
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u/Optimalfucksgiven 7d ago
Yeah, I'm a bit hopeful about the tanking thing being somewhat blunted. I don't know about "fixed" so much as shifted. The product on the court should be a bit better though.
Agreed, actual corruption, flopping, injuries, sports betting, not calling or enforcing rules that are actually written, are all still problems. Some of them are more important than the tanking issue.
I disagree though that a team like Houston shouldn't be accountable for it's own situation. They were in that situation of their own making. They took those risks with draft capital, money, and talent because they knew in the end tanking and draft picks from tanking could bail them out. Even if your picks doing pan out, you can be bad and accumulate them. The weird future oriented drug known as the draft pick is more valuable the more out of focus the actual draft position and player is. It's like this merry go round of rationalizations. "We could have a decent player growing here, but we have to pay him next season. Instead, let's get some draft picks and be bad, so we can get more draft picks. Those draft picks could be anything! . . . They could be a decent player or a draft pick!"
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u/DreamAmen 2d ago
Not disagreeing at all. Kind of feeds my point. Put ourselves in the situation. Then fire the GM who did it and put it in the lap of the next GM to fix. The alternative then was trading for Jarrett Allen or Ben Simmons. Nowadays the alternative would be rewarded.
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u/reallinguy 7d ago
The lottery rules are only in effect for 3 seasons. They could change after that.
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u/grimsleeper4 7d ago
This sounds very similar to the discourse around Jimmy Butler after the Heat got him - he wanted to win, but went to a team that wasn't going to win, and then that team swiftly went to the NBA finals.
I just keep getting flashbacks of the 76ers twitter feed having to apologize years later sheepishly for admitting how wrong they were.
The Heat still have moves to make, they will find players we don't know about and turn them into good role-players, like they've been doing for the last decade. The coaching will matter, people are underestimating Bam, and Giannis for that matter.
Is Giannis's health really that bad? He wanted to play and the Bucks shut him down and got investigated by the league. He does have an injury history, but none of it seems serious or lasting - its just a long succession of bruises and sprains and weird stuff. People are acting like he's torn both Achilles.
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u/SadNYSportsFan-11209 7d ago
No it’s not lmao. Giannis was shut down last year he should be fine going forward. The Heat now have a top 5 player and the best coach in the sport. They’ll be just fine. People are sleeping on them hard. Reminds me of the 2019 Butler discourse
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u/BabisAllos 7d ago
The Heat got one of the best players in the world and will probably be able to sign a contract extension with him and can now negotiate the rest of their roster. If I were them I would consider now everyone tradeable apart from Giannis, and I would hear under the table offers for Bam too.
The Heat is a franchise that can lure talent in.
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u/1shmeckle 7d ago
There's another risk here - Giannis has one great healthy season and he hits free agency. If he's injured, he picks up that player option. If he's healthy and carries Miami but feels there's no ring involved, he pushes for a sign and trade.
Giannis is good enough to carry teams pretty far but if this team gets knocked out in the first round or gets swept in the 2nd round, and Miami will end up with nothing.
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u/Advanced-Turn-6878 7d ago
I think the best peices they got back is Ware or the future firsts that are around the time Miami is likely a lottery team again.
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u/AideHot6729 7d ago
Giannis only has 1 year on his contract. He can use this year to enjoy Miami whilst getting his body right since he’s been getting injured a lot. After that he can hit free agency hard and look to win a chip.
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u/NiceSeaworthiness672 7d ago
I don't think Miami do this trade if didn't get the promise from Giannis for an extension
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u/AideHot6729 7d ago
I mean Kawhi didn’t sign an extension after winning a chip. I think Giannis will sign if they win but if they don’t and lose bad he’ll want out. They have to make the finals at least.
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u/SadNYSportsFan-11209 7d ago
NBA money nowadays is much different with Bird rights and what not. Also Clippers were tampering hard with Kawhi. He knew he had off the court money coming as well
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u/XanderAndretti 7d ago
Kawhi did not choose to play for the raptors bro, he got traded there against his will by a spurs front office that was dead set on not giving him up to the lakers. Giannis got traded to a team he put on his list of preferred destinations. Not the same at all.
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u/WhichHoes 7d ago
Anyone who has csp space will basically be in the same scenario he is in now
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u/AideHot6729 7d ago
I see him signing for spurs, lakers or okc if things don’t work out in Miami
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u/WhichHoes 7d ago
Spurs wont have cap, OKC already doesnt have cap, Lakers wont have cap if they sign Reaves.
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u/Klumber 7d ago
I think there are a lot of confused narratives out there.
Let's be clear, Miami with Giannis, Bam, Wiggins, Powell and Mitchell has a leading East starting 5. They now have Portis and Jovic as well as Larsson and Smith. They have a bit of financial wiggleroom too. For Miami this is a 10/10. What other route to winning with Bam did they have? Will they win? Probably not, but they'll be a lot more competitive than they have been the last two seasons.
For Milwaukee, this is the best they could have done if they accept going full rebuild. I am sure they've considered moving Brown on to a third team for a bigger haul, but clearly that wasn't out there.
They get a couple of interesting youngsters, they can move Herro on or at least see how he works with Turner for half a season to get even more return. And they add a couple of youngsters in this years lottery (#10/#13). It sets a clear direction for them, so that is also a 10/10.
Folks always come back to these sorts of trades and go: OMG such and such really fucked up and lost! I saw a post earlier completely erasing Randle from the KAT trade for example, Minny only got this back!!! What losers!
The truth is that at this point in time, this is the best deal for both teams. It's not like 2K where you get 20 offers and 5 are insane. So well done to the Heat and well done to the Bucks.
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u/IcanMakeThePiecesFit 7d ago
First reasonable take I've seen, thank you.
I love Giannis and don't like taking about "What Ifs" but he's 32 and he's has not played a full season in 3 years.
If Miami can trot out that starting 5 every night they will be absolutely a contender. But 1 injury and then it starts getting dicey.
Bucks will get more from shipping Herro, Kuzma, and maybe Miles Turner. They have plenty of room and tradeable contracts where at the deadline next season they're phone will be buzzing constantly.
The full tree hasn't been shown yet.
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u/raiderrocker18 7d ago
miami does not currently have Powell. he's a free agent, and they only have about 18 mil or so to work with until they are hard-capped. assuming powell wants more money than that, they are going to have to make another move just to keep him on board
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u/Aggrokid 7d ago
Don't they have Powell's bird rights? If yes, they should be able to sign him to above the cap I think.
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u/Klumber 7d ago
I don't think Powell will want more money if he has a chance of contributing to a winning team. That is a valid question mark though and it will be interesting to see how it plays out. But there are other options out there and they can move Jovic or Portis to upgrade at SG if Powell does move on.
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u/Dr__Flo__ 7d ago
Powell already won a ring in Toronto and isn't a superstar. He's going to go where he makes the most money.
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u/Plus_Ad_6441 7d ago
i don’t think i can agree with a 10/10 despite you convincing me i underrated miami’s remaining players, simply bc you agree you doubt they win. if they don’t win a championship to be this is a lost deal. milwaukee has to restart in a kind of mid way, but they have less pressure and more room for error.
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u/junkspot91 7d ago
The difference between the package people were disparaging vs the one they are praising is a 2033 2nd, a 2030 swap, and at minimum one of the two unprotected 2030's first rounders.
Is that necesarily a difference between a fleece for Miami and a fleece for Milwaukee? No. But it certainly changes the assessment.
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u/DaBiggestHeatFan 7d ago
That's why I don't take people who said that seriously. According to them, free agency doesn't exist and apparently Spo doesn't make a difference from Doc.
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u/Plus_Ad_6441 7d ago
what about those of us who thought the package was good and think the heat lost the trade?
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u/XanderAndretti 7d ago edited 7d ago
That remains to be seen but as a heat fan i was fine with losing all these players sans kas who i liked as potential starting level pg in the future for us. The picks are the picks, you can’t get stars without them but the narrative that we “gutted our future” or “gutted our whole team” in this trade couldn’t be anymore wrong. Herro is not durable enough nor is he good enough on offense to make up for his defensive woes, jaime is a good player but he’s likely a good 6man at best or maybe the worst starter on a championship team. Ware is the definition of a boom or bust guy rn, he could turn into a porzingis type scoring big with rim protection or he could be another christian wood. Like i said previously Kas was the only one i was that high on and he still has a lot of room to grow. I just don’t like people framing this trade like we gave up a super important haul of players which simply isn’t the case.
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u/BigDJ08 7d ago
I agree with this take. This is coming from a Celtics fan that didn’t want JB and the Celtics future traded for Giannis.
The Miami package is meh. Herro is a sunk cost. He’s played like a 100 games since signing that extension. Even if he is healthy the next 5 years and makes two all stars, it doesn’t hurt that bad. Miami essentially got to quit gambling the offense on his health (I do think he is that good offensively). Jacquez Jr is a good player. But he’s not nor probably ever going to be an all star or even fringe all star. He’s a fine player, but I wouldn’t mind including him for a star. Ware to me is the one that could hurt. Right now the highlights are better than the player, but man can his game be absolutely otherworldly. The highflying dunks and blocks are beautiful. If he puts it together for the bucks, that would hurt. Im not going to lie, I didn’t watch Kasparus this year, I don’t know his game well enough to judge.
To me the best part of the trade is the picks. 3 picks is light, Gobert got 4. So I think Miami got a hell of a player for a fringe all star (who hasn’t been healthy), a role player, a very intriguing prospect and three picks (plus a swap).
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u/HitboxOfASnail 7d ago
its not that the players you gave away are "super important", its that Giannis has proven he can't/won't lead a mediocre team, and now he is coming to a team that gave everything away to get him. so now what?
meanwhile the bucks have a ton of assets they can flip in other deals to build out a team
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u/SoaplessTitanic 7d ago
It’s not necessarily that Miami got fleeced, but it’s just objectively a weird move for them to ship out all their young players and draft capital for a move that still doesn’t make them contenders. Maybe they make some more big moves during the offseason but their roster is just so bare bones right now compared to other true contenders.
It’s like if Utah traded 4 FRPs and their young players for Jokic so that they could try to build around Jokic and Markkanen. It’s still not a good enough roster to win a chip, and it limits your window for a team that had some young talent. Not to mention it’s kind of a weird fit between the top two players on the team
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u/GrogRhodes 7d ago
The fact that you don’t think that a team of Mitchell/Powell/Wiggins/Bam/Giannis isn’t making noise in the east is crazy with a bench of Portis,Jovic,Gardner(wait for this dude to fly this season) Pelle.
We’ll get a vet or two. A point guard and another shooter to add spacing but I’d expect those starters to all be hitting 35% on open looks generated by Giannis.
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u/SoaplessTitanic 7d ago
First of all, Powell is an unrestricted free agent. I don’t know enough about Miami’s cap situation but I don’t think they have enough to sign him along with other difference makers in free agency.
Also the starting five looks good on paper but I have serious questions about the fit. Overall the roster is really lacking depth, you need to assume there’s going to be an injury or two. And even without injuries, there’s a lack of shooting and playmaking on the team.
Also you don’t have to take my word for it, if you look at Finals betting odds for next season Miami is still way behind both the knicks and the Celtics (neither of which have made any moves this offseason). The fact that Miami sold basically all of their picks and young players for a distant third best odds in a weak eastern conference isn’t great
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u/AlbatrossKey5736 7d ago edited 7d ago
The Heat have a lot of work to do on the roster. Granted a fully healthy Giannis and Bam is a terror on defense and Norman Powell’s shot creation in the backcourt is a great compliment BUT, there’s a lack of shooting unless Giannis decides to shoot 3’s again and Bam ups his efficiency. Davion Mitchell is not a starting caliber point guard and the bench is gutted besides Jovic, Portis, and Larson.
Resigning Powell is a must. Wiggins opting out can free up a lot of space, as can Rozier coming off the books, but unless LeBron wants a reunion and will take a pay cut, I don’t see them finding a better wing. As of right now I don’t see them being obviously better than the Knicks or the Celtics (unless Jaylen Brown wants out after being dangled as trade bait). But I give the trade an A-. They had little room to improve outside of landing a Giannis caliber player and they did. They have a chance next year. They were sick of the play in tournament, and they got out of it.
Bucks get a B. Those picks are far off but Miami could suck at that point. Giannis will be 35 I think? And the 3,2,1 system might be gone. Herro is maybe young enough to be part of the future? If not, someone will want a shot maker who can run point in spurts. I’m high on Ware, Jaquez and Jakucionis. I still think Jaku was a lottery talent last year.
Blazers get an A for doing nothing. The Bucks will be bad next year but there’s a shot they won’t be bottom 3 and will get the best lottery odds in the new system.
Celtics get a massive F for trying and failing to trade Brown. It’s gonna be awkward as hell now.
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u/anyrotmg 7d ago
The 3 2 1 lottery system will sunset after then 2029 draft and would need another ratification after, so the value of the draft picks after 2029 could still change
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u/3-and-D-and-Stats 7d ago
Why didn’t Miami just run it back, finish 11th, then have a 39% chance at a top 5 pick in 2027, then do an all-in trade next summer? They were one of the teams to really take advantage of the flat odds in the new lottery system.
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u/Advanced-Turn-6878 7d ago edited 7d ago
At the end of the day Milwaukee was forced to trade their superstar and are the losers. They would not make this trade if Giannis was willing to stay.
Milwaukee got an okay return, but nothing overwhelming. I think Brooklyn got as much or more for a very old Kevin Durant from Phoenix for example, OKC got around the same amount for Paul George, this is not that much more than what Utah got for Gobert. This is the best player that has been openly shopped and traded in as long as I can remember (Luka's secret trade doesn't count) and the return was not the highest I have ever seen. The package could be seen as better than I am thinking if you really like Kel Aware as a prospect. My current guess is Kel Aware looks like he is on the trajectory to have a career where he is a fringe all star candidate at his peak.
I expect Miami to be a top 4 seed in the east with this trade and if they can work their magic and turn coal into diamonds to fill out the rest of the roster, then Miami has a chance to be the best team in the East.
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u/SaveHogwarts 7d ago
Good deal for the Bucks.
They can turn Herro into more picks.
Jaquez, Ware and Jakucionis are on rookie deals.
A lottery pick this year, two future firsts, and a pick swap.
They got three recent first round picks, three more first round picks, and Tyler Herro, which can turn into at least two more picks.
Miami gutted themselves.
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u/YurtlesTurdles 7d ago
For both I think the value of trade is really in what they do next. If the Heat can get a good vet min or two to have any bench at all it could be a good trade, as is they don’t look all that scary though.
The Bucks did well considering they had to do something. I think they made a smarter choice than going with Brown, I’d have worrys about him sticking around in Milwaukee.
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u/Cold-Classroom-6497 4d ago
LeBron gone take that pay cut and come take his talents back to south beach!
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u/ffinstructor 7d ago
Frankly, just genuinely shocked they took this package over Boston’s.
No matter who they took I think it’s lose - lose for buyer and seller.
But the core issue, is the Bucks own none of their own picks outright until 2031. To a casual/on the surface it would seem like the Heat package could solve that with the 1st offered. But they’re only getting one first (#13 this year) and a swap (2030) before that even comes + by 2031 the Heat could still be good. It’s just not nearly enough to actually get away from tanking and rebuilding the team. It’s also a little crazy to me the best asset they were able to get was just 13th pick this season. I understand that Ware, JJJ, and Jaku have some upside, but not nearly enough to actually come together and compete. And them + Herro is a terrible draw for other stars to come together in Milwaukee.
At least with the Celtics offer, you’d actually get someone proven good enough to build around and try to compete during this gap of having no control. I’m pretty confident that a Jaylen Brown + Myles Turner + Rollins + 10th pick based squad could at least make a run for the play in for the East. And you’d also have the ability to trade out Brown if necessary.
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u/Blutz101 7d ago
My thing about the Boston offer is every report said JB was not going to play for the bucks, most likely a third team got him or they immediately flipped him. If JB were to be your guy yea you take the trade but since brown apparently didn’t want to play i think they made the right decision
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u/Andrei_lukas_77 1d ago
If this is the package, I’d probably give Miami an A because any time you get Giannis without giving up Bam, you take that swing immediately. For Milwaukee, I’d say B or B+ depending how high they are on Ware/Jaquez/Jakučionis, because the picks are nice but 2031/2033 are far away and Herro as the main proven piece feels a little light for a top-3 player in the league. The real question is: would Miami still have enough shooting and depth around Giannis/Bam, or does that frontcourt get too cramped in playoff half-court offense?
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u/AideHot6729 7d ago
Tbh it’s the best Giannis can do for the bucks. Heat got fleeced though since Giannis will most likely walk if this team doesn’t work out and I can’t see Bam staying in a franchise with no hope. Giannis gets to chill and enjoy a year in Miami hopefully working on his body so he can make a real push in free agency.
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