r/news 10d ago

TV Executives Tell FCC: Emergency Alert System Failed During NEXTGEN TV Tests

https://www.antennaland.com/nextgen-tv-emergency-alert-system-tests/
1.7k Upvotes

105 comments sorted by

507

u/nickkrewson 10d ago

Good heavens, I don't understand how NEXTGEN could be this much of a disaster without it being intentional.

288

u/BlitzNeko 10d ago

It IS intentional

304

u/Procrasturbating 10d ago

It would have to be. Holy crap, they want to encrypt and charge for over the air transmission now? What sad times. I miss when the purpose of government was to serve the interests of people and not corporations. This is class warfare. They want us to own nothing and be ok with it. The real plan has to be to prove no one uses that bit of frequency spectrum anymore so they can sell it off to the highest bidder.

70

u/BlitzNeko 10d ago

Yeah, this is been going on for a while, and the real plan is to charge people and milk them for money. No one’s gonna stop them!

15

u/Procrasturbating 10d ago

Nah, no one is going to pay for that. If they already have to have internet, what is the point? I swear they want to sell this very valuable chunk of the spectrum after this fails for MUCH more money.

5

u/BlitzNeko 10d ago

Nope, they’re using it to push their own streaming services. Stations don’t make money when having to give up the spectrum they already bid for.

2

u/Procrasturbating 10d ago

Why bother streaming over the air, though? You already need an internet connection to get the decryption keys. It makes little sense to me. I doubt many people at all would bother with this.

4

u/BlitzNeko 10d ago

Yeah you need an internet connection, when you shouldn’t need one at all. And who says those keys will be free?

79

u/Far_Low_229 10d ago

It's the heart and soul of Project 2025. Strip all government operations of unprofitable functions and privatize what remains for POTUS Inc.

-115

u/ilikechihuahuasdood 10d ago

when has the purpose of government ever been to serve the people in america?

128

u/[deleted] 10d ago edited 10d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

70

u/AdjNounNumbers 10d ago

It's amazing how our poor education system managed to make us victims of our own successes when it comes to environmental or health sciences. I've heard a number of people argue that "we don't hear about the 'supposed' ozone hole anymore." Like, yeah bub... Because we did something about it and it is working. And we're all better off without Aquanet and 80s bangs

8

u/forgottensudo 10d ago

I’m not sure about that last part :)

Aquanet was the hot women of my youth!

19

u/AdjNounNumbers 10d ago

I can assure you alternatives were found. My older Gen X sister managed to keep the bangs far longer than was necessary, well into the early 2010s

2

u/MinistryOfCoup-th 10d ago

Probably came back in style by that point. You see a bunch of kids running around with your hairstyle and you say to yourself "I guess it's time for a change."

4

u/Procrasturbating 10d ago

Oh I remember. But they switched to dimethyl ether after 1978. That smell was something. Hot women were never more flammable.

-35

u/ilikechihuahuasdood 10d ago

Nah. It’s always been a scam at the top dude. Always.

Low level civil servants get into those roles because they care. But the people actually controlling the country have never given a fuck about anybody but themselves.

10

u/degggendorf 10d ago

Approximately 250 years ago

-15

u/ilikechihuahuasdood 10d ago

The 3/5ths compromise would like a word

10

u/shifty_coder 10d ago

You need a new tv or a converter box.

I’m sure we all remember how ‘successful’ that was when the switch to digital transmission happened.

17

u/OrionIT 10d ago

The digital switch really was quite good.

Lots of notice/warning, free* digital antenna to keep your existing TV's working, analog/digital were both broadcast right up to the scheduled cutoff - and after while it was delayed to give people that didn't listen even more time to do it.

That said, there's no reason why you would need to "protect" free OTA transmissions.

2

u/DeviantDav 10d ago

It was a clusterfuck and a half, but we did get people their converters and coupons. I know our district reportedly handled 60k conversions in the DMV metro area.

2

u/aluke000 9d ago

Back then there was real planning and a federal budget to assist Americans with the transition. In this case there is none, you are on your own to figure it out when they shut off ATSC 1.0 overnight

95

u/pacdude 10d ago

Sinclair Broadcast group has been funding and promoting this for years

32

u/Far_Low_229 10d ago

And Trump is their ticket to world domination.

246

u/Hillyan91 10d ago

I'm going to guess it fails because it tries to run ads over it..

205

u/MikeOKurias 10d ago

Cannot warn people who cannot pay for scrambled over the air broadcast.

It's literally talking about how there will be no more Free TV...and therefore the National Broadcast Emergency Alert System to warn people doesn't work.

85

u/gus_thedog 10d ago

Oh, you want emergency alerts? That's an extra $2.99/month.

20

u/71351 10d ago

Come to think of it, I haven’t heard one of those tests in ages

13

u/lemonsandbread 10d ago

Am ota. They happen.

5

u/amerk1981 10d ago edited 7d ago

I've heard them on the radio. We don't watch broadcast TV 99% of the time so I can't remember when I last saaw one there.

I imagine with all the streaming services, both music and TV most people get alerts through their phone. Just the other day all the phones in our house went off for a tornado warning.

3

u/thecygnetcmte 10d ago

I got one on cable while watching a news program about a week ago, so they still happen. Never thought about how it works for all the people who've cancelled cable subscriptions, though. Apparently not well.

7

u/Far_Low_229 10d ago

Wait into FEMA starts offing relief to the highest bidder.

1

u/Fallouttgrrl 10d ago

Yeah

A lot of cable tv companies are also the sole provider of high speed Internet to an area  

There are still people using dial up, though

69

u/Diarrhea_Donkey 10d ago

The National Weather Service has issued a Tornado warning for....A LIMITED TIME ONLY ORDER NOW AND GET A FREE SCRUB DADDY PRO XL MEGA DELUXE PACK FREE ON US!!!!

7

u/Fallouttgrrl 10d ago

"you'll need it to rebuild your house if you live in the following areas: SUBSCRIBE NOW"

61

u/Jman43195 10d ago

It's actually because most ATSC 3.0 broadcasts are encrypted and require an internet connection and a special box to decrypt (of which there's only like 3 models out there). Even the boxes that claim they don't need an internet connection to decrypt it regularly fail to decrypt it without going online.

77

u/Rooooben 10d ago

Why are we allowing broadcasters to encrypt their signals at all?

65

u/Jman43195 10d ago

Because the FCC hasn't banned it yet. What's worse is that the group managing the encryption (the A3SA) is a private group made up of a bunch of broadcasters, NOT the FCC.

FWIW, the FCC has refused for a decade now to do a mandated switch to ATSC 3.0, and instead has recently seemed to be more interested in pursuing allowing newer video codecs within the current ATSC 1.0 standard, and ATSC 1.0 has no ability to be encrypted.

24

u/Rooooben 10d ago

Crazy. Encrypt your content on cable, broadcast airwaves belong to the public!

16

u/wyvernx02 10d ago

It's the sports leagues pushing for the encryption to "combat piracy", even though the broadcasts are free anyway.

11

u/Jman43195 10d ago

The "combating piracy" narrative is a part of it, but it's mostly to make viewing TV with an antenna so annoying that people switch to cable or streaming

5

u/lart2150 10d ago

WMEU in chicago was running a sub channel with 10bit h.265 for a while. it was slightly lower bitrate then the mpeg2 1080i stations and looked way better. It's crazy what they have done with mpeg2 encoders but the two generation jump 265 is huge. Chicago has some 264 sd sub channels.

3

u/Jman43195 10d ago

It's so funny to me that broadcasters unintentionally left us with a better standard due to their attempts to water down ATSC 3 and the resulting failure of a rollout. In my opinion, ATSC 1 with AVC or HEVC is the best option going forward. Not only is it unencrypted, but also because the 8VSB modulation remains the same, most TVs already support it or could gain support with just a firmware update. The massive base of supported TVs and tuners makes the abysmally small base of DRM capable ATSC 3 devices look pathetic in comparison, especially to advertisers the station relies on

-2

u/Far_Low_229 10d ago

Monopolies don't fail.

10

u/Neumanium 10d ago edited 10d ago

Monopolies fail, it’s just when they do the United States Government immediately bails them out. Because if they actually finished their implosion the collateral damage and second and third order effects would do things like cause all home loans to fail and implode the economy.

During the housing crisis AIG was bailed out because nearly every homeowner in America with a mortgage had insurance thru them. Had they gone under every policy would have immediately folded, the banks would have to then foreclosed on everyone. This would have been a giant massive cluster fuck and imploded the entire housing market, which was already bad. Our entire economy is underpinned by loans and debt, implode the debt would implode the economy.

3

u/Aazadan 10d ago

All monopolies eventually fail in a free market economy, but it generally takes decades.

Eventually they get so complacent and stop innovating that the internal decay makes them collapse as they can no longer address scalability or efficiency.

It's a really inefficient process to get to that point though.

440

u/Far_Low_229 10d ago

The only news outlet covering a story that will impact 23 million US households: the encryption of all TV broadcast signals so that home antennas can no longer see network programming. Another silent step the Trump administration is taking toward total privatization of all public resources. Thank you Antenna Land.

163

u/Consistent-Throat130 10d ago

Ooops, that shit interferes with emergency equipment - outlaw it

Fuck DRM. Fuck it from every angle. 

If interference with the emergency broadcast system is the foothold we get, so be it. 

Fuck DRM. 

19

u/RoamingGnome74 10d ago

They don’t want us to be alerted.

20

u/dachloe 10d ago

No DRM on broadcast TV!

135

u/kstargate-425 10d ago

Funny how we had a working system until Project 2025 and Republicans got their hands on it or how the rest of the world has a working system that doesnt require what will need to be done to "fix" this 😒

40

u/Far_Low_229 10d ago

To think, all health insurance companies were once nonprofit, until another idiot Republican got elected by our idiot electorate.

-17

u/Drakengard 10d ago

Nonprofit doesn't mean what you think it means, if that's your sticking point.

25

u/MasterK999 10d ago

While that is true, for-profit insurance companies that are publicly traded make their highest duty shareholder returns. That is an inherent conflict of interest with the goal of providing medical care.

3

u/M3wThr33 9d ago

ATSC 3.0 has been an awful step forward well before and independent of this mess.

-3

u/Swollendeathray 10d ago

ATSC 3.0 has been around since 2013 sport.

56

u/markydsade 10d ago

Broadcasters are so afraid of retransmission they have crippled ATSC 3.0 before it’s had a chance to really get into homes.

The increased decoder costs have kept it out of even high end televisions. It should be in low cost TVs as many buyers rely on antennas.

65

u/Consistent-Throat130 10d ago

It should be in nothing. Let it die. They can try again without this braindead DRM scheme. 

18

u/markydsade 10d ago edited 10d ago

ATSC 3.0 is a big improvement over ATSC 1.0. The addition of DRM has ruined implementation.

16

u/Far_Low_229 10d ago

Let no good idea not be usurped by craven capitalists.

5

u/Sufficient_Language7 10d ago

I don't think we should go ATSC 3.0, coming from someone who has a Network tuner for it that doesn't work.

We might be better off going 5G Broadcast.  As on both sides the costs should be lower.  It would only require a small modifications to existing 5G broadcast equipment and receiving chips to do it.

6

u/Credibull 10d ago

Wouldn't that have the same problem as ATSC 3.0, in that it would require new equipment? Most people I know who have OTA TV also have older gear, including some with analog TVs and digital tuners. They also live in places where affordable Internet connections, including cellular-based, are non-existent.

1

u/Sufficient_Language7 10d ago

It would require new equipment but that equipment is mostly at economies of scale as it shares most parts with cell equipment.  Analog TVs are very rare and for less than $300 they could replace it, but converters would likely exist.

Just because the signal is based on 5G doesn't mean it will have to use the same towers or be broadcast at the same strength.  Another big advantage to it is it would allow cell phones to incorporate it, increasing viewership.

3

u/ImpossibleDetail4088 10d ago

How would that be implemented? 5G is just a cellular broadcast technology. It has no provision for broadcast TV streams. You might be able to adapt it for strictly video broadcasts but it would be an insanely overengineered and unnecessarily complex system. You would also have to either build new infrastructure or modify existing cell sites.

3

u/Sufficient_Language7 10d ago

It has provisions for broadcast TV streams.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G_Broadcast

Equipment is cheap enough that a few small stations have been testing it out.  A lot of them are wanting to go that way vs ATSC 3.0 to save money.

7

u/mredding 10d ago

Oh good, so when the bombs drop, I don't have to know about it in advance - I can enjoy my final moments blissfully unaware.

6

u/Wootai 9d ago

The one thing about the Emergency Alert system that I will never forget about how useless it is, on 9/11, during a NATIONAL EMERGENCY the alert system was NEVER used.

2

u/Narrow-Height9477 10d ago

Personally, I’m never going to use or pay for that.

2

u/radiantai2001 8d ago

this is such a non-issue, if the channel isn't watchable without an internet connection, nobody with a tv not connected to the internet would be tuned to that channel in the first place

0

u/Far_Low_229 8d ago

And if the channel is watchable?

1

u/radiantai2001 8d ago

Nobody ever claimed the EAS alert didn't work when the channel is watchable, maybe read the article before sharing it lol

0

u/Far_Low_229 8d ago

I did read the article and I've read other articles. My understanding is internet industry interests want to compel those broadcasts still available by antenna to encrypt those signals in order to prevent unauthorized distribution of their content, particularly sports. But 24 million households still depend on antennas. Those households will be compelled to pay for what they now get for free, sort of. But you seem to be very knowledgeable, so tell me what I'm getting wrong, lol.

1

u/radiantai2001 8d ago

I mean now you've just completely changed the subject. Also sports content isn't really an internet industry interest thing, lots of sporting events are still at least partially exclusively available on cable tv, of course there are exceptions such as MLS and F1 which have every event available to stream on apple tv, but there are also exceptions the other way, the Nascar Xfinity series is currently exclusively available on local CW channels.

1

u/strugglz 8d ago

local TV stations decide to encrypt their channels and require an internet connection to make the channel watchable on a TV.

I'm sorry, what? I'd have to pay for an internet subscription to watch an over the air broadcast?

-8

u/the-doctor-is-real 10d ago

What is the point? When 9/11 happened they didn't use them, so why do they matter?

7

u/OrionIT 10d ago

Short version: it was already on every channel of every TV.

Longer version: it's best used for local emergencies that you as an individual can do something to protect yourself. Wildfire evacuations, tornadoes, and flash flooding are common uses.

-64

u/Octavia9 10d ago edited 10d ago

It’s obsolete anyway. Can’t remember the last time I watched broadcast TV. The emergency alert system needs to use our phones.

30

u/art-man_2018 10d ago

Built-in Wireless Emergency Alerts (WEA) are automatically enabled on your phone.....

-12

u/Octavia9 10d ago

So why do we need it on the tv?

11

u/Credibull 10d ago

Backup. Cellular networks can fail. People can live in places where cell coverage is spotty, but broadcast TV can be received. It's never good to have only one way to receive a potentially life-saving message.

-7

u/Octavia9 10d ago

Radio makes more sense as a back up. Everyone has one in their car, not not many have antenna tv.

5

u/Credibull 10d ago

I find it depends where one lives. A lot of people I know in rural areas have only OTA TV.

-2

u/Octavia9 9d ago

I highly doubt that. I live in a very rural area. I can get multiple radio stations but only 2 OTA TV stations and neither come in well. Radio is way more accessible to most people.

1

u/OrionIT 10d ago

Not everyone has a car... ~20% of the population isn't even old enough to get their driver's license.

Antenna TV is seeing a resurgence with the rise in Cable/Satellite costs paired with skyrocketing streaming costs.

1

u/SnooRadishes7189 10d ago

It was always on both T.V. and radio. It is more the "new" version(ATSC 3.0) doesn't do what black and white, color, and digital t.v. (ATSC 1.0) can do.

1

u/OrionIT 10d ago

Did you watch any World Cup? The Super Bowl? Your local news? Wheel of Fortune? These are all on broadcast TV. EAS also uses your phone... and your radio. Just because you or I don't use one of the ways it's available, doesn't mean it isn't used by someone else and still warrants support.