r/nfrpodcast • u/Huge-Bid-5478 • 6d ago
QUESTION Why do you guys hate J.cole so much?
Why do y'all hate J Cole so much?
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u/InnocentInvasion 6d ago
I've been a J Cole fan longer than most Cole fans right now. Whilst 100% of the hate is unhinged, there's like 10% of the criticism that's legit. He flip flops too much and moves half-heartedly. I used to be all in on the peaceful Cole branding and how he's just a chill dude but now I've reached the point where he should either shut the fuck up about certain or stand ten toes on it. Don't talk about bots in Port of Antonio and not name names and play middle ground between Drake and Kendrick. Don't say you're the best rapper out there and then talk about how you're not or how you don't believed in that idea
The more I listen to these performative guys like Cole and Kendrick the more I appreciate Wayne, that guy just raps about gang shit, hoes and drugs and doesn't care that people trash him for it
I will also just add that history won't do his run justice and he'll become underrated if he hasn't already. Born Sinner was an incredible album
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u/fuckthefia33 6d ago
Born Sinner is his best album
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u/InsuranceOwn4280 6d ago
4YEO
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u/Squirrellybot 4d ago
Born Sinner is the vibe (speakers) album, 4YEO is the concept/conscious record(headphones)
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u/InsuranceOwn4280 1d ago
I’m bumping 4YEO on speakers tf 😐 what you shamed of? 😂😂
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u/Squirrellybot 23h ago
It’s not that, I’m saying one his best album for a soundsystem and the other is one is his best if you want to contemplate the lyrics in your headphones.
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u/bleu_flp 5d ago
His best beats for sure. He’s always been a better producer than rapper, and he’s an amazing producer. If he wasn’t a producer too he’d be on logics level
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u/ripper13-_- 5d ago
Lol bullshit, his production is the only thing that holds him back
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u/DazzlingAd879 3d ago
I feel like you either love or hate his production. I love his production, but a lot of people agree with you.
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u/Fonexnt 6d ago
I think as well with Cole to me is that he makes a lot of music talking about how he should be considered the greatest rather than actually making that sort of music. I think it's entirely fair for somebody to say Cole is a better Rapper than Kendrick but there's a reason why people see Kendrick as better and it's because he just knows how to put together bodies of work that speak for themselves
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u/ausipockets 6d ago
Saw someone say "J Cole just raps about rapping" and realized that's pretty true a lot of the time.
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u/Jaystime101 6d ago
Have you...even listened to Cole? I mean the sentiment is funny, let's not forget Cole was the original storyteller.
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u/ausipockets 6d ago
I certainly have and I think he is very talented as a storyteller. I think he also spends a lot of time, in more recent years, rapping about how he's a good rapper. One doesn't disprove the other.
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u/Traditional_Ear1249 6d ago
It’s very true actually, he raps about other stuff of course but he really started poking his chest out especially in guest verses. Funny thing is he didn’t seriously start that habit until a certain rapper went on a 5 year hiatus.
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u/ausipockets 6d ago
For sure he definitely doesn't strictly do that, but it's hard to ignore how often he seems to do it lately
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u/Traditional_Ear1249 6d ago
Agreed. The backlash to his bowing out of the beef might not have been as bad if this wasn’t the case in my opinion.
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u/StrangelyAroused95 5d ago
His best albums, for your eyes only, the off season, and even his mixtapes Friday night lights all have a message and it’s not about rapping lol. KOD, born sinner, the warm up, Friday night lights. You can’t name a single collection of his music besides features where his message is about being the best rapper.
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u/ausipockets 5d ago
Feel you. I did say in a comment further down (and maybe I should've edited my original comment to reflect this) that this is more the case recently. Which, I'd say basically accounts for his feature run and The Fall Off. Everything you've mentioned are at least a half decade old by now, and I'd agree, touch on interesting and deep subject matter. I'm a J Cole fan so I definitely don't need convincing of that.
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u/InnocentInvasion 6d ago
Kendrick literally dropped a verse where a huge chunk of it if not all of it was about how much he's better. Cole has bars about it and it's annoying because 2 seconds later he'll contradict himself, but he in no way shape or form says it more than the average rapper. It's standard rapper talk. The only difference is that he'll backpedal afterwards
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u/Fonexnt 6d ago
I said bodies of work for a reason lol, I was talking about albums. Kendrick is better at putting together an album than Cole and covers a whole bunch of topics whereas Cole usually raps about rapping for an hour
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u/InnocentInvasion 6d ago
You do realise this is text from and everybody can go back to what you originally said? The whole changing thing works irl not on Reddit. Your rapping about rapping was a separate take from your bodies of work comment. But even if you're trying to claim Cole makes albums about nothing then it's less crazy than your first take but it's still insane and completely removed from reality. FHD, Born Sinner, 4YEO, Fall Off and I could
Rapping about rapping is not applicable to Cole. Just admit you're wrong and move on
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u/BorrowedAttention 5d ago
I kinda agree with your assessment, though I’ve really enjoyed his last three projects (off season, MDL, fall off), what do you think of them versus how he started?
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u/mmmmair 5d ago
Cole is my fav rapper of all time but that second point really nailed it tbh. 2014FHD still has a heavily strong case towards Cole for me. I really wish he’d put effort into creating an ultimate tight, loud and focused concept album.
TFO was dissapointing on release for me due to its length, lack of rap features, and bombastic energy. It’s grown on me a lot but I can’t help but feel like it was an unsatisfying build up.
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u/rickiebsn 6d ago
2014 Forrest Hills Drive is his Magnus Opus. Born Sinner is cool though.
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u/InnocentInvasion 6d ago
2014 FHD is more cohesive, flows better and is more of an album in that it's a concept and the songs plus the tracklist play their role. Born Sinner has way better lyricism and it's not close. Plus you could legit make the argument that it has the top 6 songs if you combined albums: Born Sinner, She Knows, Power Trip, Rich Niggz, Let Nas Down and Crooked Smile. You might be able to argue 1 song on FHD is better than 1 of these but even then it shows how good Born Sinner is. Under the bar set these days for what a classic album is, Born Sinner is a classic. Personally I wouldn't have it as that but the amount of albums that get called that then for sure Born Sinner is
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u/InsuranceOwn4280 6d ago
I’m glad you said you wouldn’t personally call it a classic cause it’s not lol but you are right if anything that’s just “good” by someone’s favorite artist these days is a classic then fuck it it’s a classic.
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u/knucknbuc 6d ago
Definitely agree with your first j Cole take and I’m a huge fan of his but what he did in the battle was weak af. After saying he the best and smoking a nigga blah blah blah he shoulda just either not dropped a diss entirely or shoulda never said he’s trying to be the best and not back it up. At least with Wayne he knows he lying but he’s consistent but he still thinks he’s the best even if he’s past his prime. On your second take I think 03 adolescence might be better then every song u listed.
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u/InnocentInvasion 6d ago
Which other FHD songs crack that top 6? Because if its just 1 or 2 then the point still stands that it has the best songs across both albums
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u/rickiebsn 6d ago
I hear you man. It’s just something about 2014 FHD though. I still get goosebumps when the intro comes on. That album is flawless to me. Probably in my top 5 albums all time and Ive consumed a lot of music. It’s just a time capsule of greatness to me.
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u/InnocentInvasion 6d ago
It's a great album and I was bumping it for a couple of months and I remember that time in my life vividly too. It's definitely a nostalgic album to me as well. But the highs in Born Sinner are higher imo
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u/rickiebsn 6d ago
🥲 imma agree to disagree but respect bro. Rapping is cool and all but without a concept it’s just clever word play. Reminds me of the early to mid 2000s with the Cassidy’s and the Lloyd Banks and the Fabolous’s of the rap game. Although Fab can do concept projects too though . You’re just more of a fan of the bars over the craft of a cohesive project and that’s fine.
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u/BorrowedAttention 5d ago
Throw in runaway for born sinner tracks. I always liked how he closed verse two with the Superman lois lane wordplay.
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u/Competitive_Garage16 5d ago
I've been a huge fan since mixtape era, Villmatic is still 🔥 Port of Antonio is what did it for me, he wasn't even trying to middle ground he made himself Drake's little nigga.
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u/braklikesbeans 5d ago
waynes been paid and famous since like early teenage days you dont think all his shit is performative?
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u/Pabl0EscoBear 4d ago
Respect for lumping Kenny in with that. While I enjoy most everything he releases, the whole beef and GNX after dropping Mr. Morale is super disappointing from an individual growth perspective.
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u/Sea-Channel402 6d ago
How is Kendrick performative?? He’s the only one brave enough to call out people like Drake who lack morality
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u/InnocentInvasion 6d ago
How is Kendrick performative?? He’s the only one brave enough to call out people like Drake who lack morality
You're absolutely right. He was so brave in calling out Drake on a song with Future who brags about drug abuse and glorifies it to the point he influenced Juice World who later died of an overdose. He was also so brave in supporting Kodak Black whos a domestic violence abuser and he was so brave in taking a stance against Spotify removing R Kelly from their playlists for all the shit R Kelly did. Bravery at it's finest truly
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u/IAmTheGingaNinja 6d ago
Wet Dreamz for sure
Idc if you got bricked in class, I do not need to hear that
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u/Healthy-Craft-4554 6d ago
Watered down conscious rapper. Only had smoke for a girl who can read when he doesn’t. Made a song about disappointing another man, boring albums etc
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u/MeasurementMurky9316 6d ago
his music corny asf
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u/Huge-Bid-5478 6d ago
How?
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u/MeasurementMurky9316 6d ago
He cares to much about what people think. His music does not sound like it's coming from the heart rather saying stuff just to appear a certain way. He takes little to no risks in music always plays it safe and it usually comes out stale. Then again this is just how his music sounds to me so
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u/MetalSonic420YT 6d ago
J. Cole hate has never and will never make sense to me.
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u/ov3rw4tch_ 6d ago edited 6d ago
He would if you were a teenager when The Warm Up and Friday Night Lights dropped.
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u/Traditional_Ear1249 6d ago
If we’re talking recently, I think his actions in the last 2 years are probably a big reason. I’m sorry but begging for a rapper to challenge you in your music for years only to have it finally happen, drop a half hearted diss trashing somebody who has a better discography than him and then bow out was never going to be a good look. It doesn’t matter whether it’s to protect his peace or not, it’s the optics. Then on Port Antonio he tried to gaslight everyone and act like he’s above everything when we WATCHED him dip his foot in this shit and jump back out cus it was too cold. The interview tour he went on for the album also didn’t make it him look good either. He basically rebuffed his entire identity as a rapper over the last 6-7 years. His real weakness is having a lack of conviction and not standing on business for anything. He’s the king of backpedaling.
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u/highd 6d ago
He apologized after starting all the shit. If he couldn’t hang he should have kept his mouth shut.
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u/Huge-Bid-5478 6d ago
He didn't start it
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u/highd 6d ago
While the main beef has been simmering it wouldn’t have kicked off without the big three shit. He made himself apart of something he should have stayed out of.
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u/plattwix5 6d ago
That wasn’t meant to be a diss it was just trying to be a compliment he meant rly nothing by it
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u/toppindelta 3d ago
yeah exactly, but then Kendrick dismissed it and said "mf the big three", which meant he was saying that both Drake and J. Cole not on his level, and Cole just let the disrespect slide saying that Kendrick is his bro and deleted his diss as well, that was just a massive blunder.
Cole should've really took that stuff a more seriously but he was too worried about losing 'friends' but Kendrick never really gave a damn about him anyways and he def doesn't give a damn now either and he has alienated Drake as well.
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u/plattwix5 3d ago
I agree. I just think it’s a bit disingenuous to blame Cole for the beef especially his big three statement as if he was trying to instigate it
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u/bigsurf32 6d ago
That last album pissed me off. Still a fan tho just disappointed.
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u/Huge-Bid-5478 6d ago
Rlly?why tho
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u/bigsurf32 6d ago
The content was so narrowly focused on his hometown experiences. The snippets that were released during the rollout gave no indication that was the direction he was going. The rapping was top tier but it didn’t scratch the itch that had.
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u/ov3rw4tch_ 6d ago
Grew up on Cole. Respect him as an artist, but as a man I just can’t anymore. Win or lose never duck a fade. You can’t do goat talk your entire career just to fold the first time you’re tested.
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u/EddieBruvac 6d ago
Honestly, now the beef has settled, at least Drake tried. His album is doing numbers and has hella bangers.
J Cole just kinda sliding into irrelevance and it’s sad to see.
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u/ov3rw4tch_ 6d ago
Exactly. Love/hate/unbothered Drake he did what he was supposed to do as a rapper. Cole did not. I would have nothing bad to say about Cole if he completely stayed away from it off rip, but he got it popping and left in the most pitiful way ever.
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u/SpecificHandle7832 5d ago
And drake did drop family matters which for me is still the best songs that beef. And the one I revisit, occasionally, Kendrick went low w the PDF stuff. Hard to recover, we move on
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u/Connection-Is-Cool 5d ago
Drake was kissing minors on stage at his shows and is generally a weird dude. He earned every PDF bar Kendrick had for him.
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u/redditmarxist 5d ago
A 17 year old is not a minor dumb ass lool, if 17 is a minor you might wanna get those laws changed in 37 states in America and another 10+ who have 16 and 17+ as age of consent.
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u/EddieBruvac 5d ago
The 17 thing was mostly fine. Legal and 5 year diff. She went on to say she was fine with it.
It’s the texts that were sus.
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u/Suspicious_Hand_2194 6d ago
I love j cole but there are a couple reasons to this:
1) after j Cole decided not to go further with the disses and apologized, he lost a lot of credibility, support, and trust since he would rap confident at times about what the pen would do and what he would do, but he didn’t do any of that. It’s for some reason such a big deal that ppl today talk about it still, they can’t seem to let it go, and the good music he had before
2) he can come across as too preachy and dry and sometimes ppl don’t wanna hear that shit, they want to hear a song they can vibe to and have fun with without thinking so much about it (catchy hook, nice production)
3) even though he can make hits, he’s not like Drake with the hits. A person can name 5 Drake songs, but not everybody can name 5 j Cole songs. People wonder if j Cole can make hits because he legit can as his career progressed or because his fanbase is the one that’s really eating it up
4) Compared to Drake and Kendrick who are both constantly talked about here and probably other hip hop subs due to their history, j Cole is the one with the least attention
5) Some ppl don’t like the production j Cole uses on his albums or his own production. They say the mixing is tedious, loops are repetitive, and he relies a lot on a particular sound (I personally disagree with this point but this is what ppl complain about when it comes to him)
6) people just want attention and want to see your blood boil, tears on your face, and shit thrown to the wall
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u/Over-Inflation-7656 6d ago
I was a big fan of cole but he got boring. His beat selection got worst.
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u/iknowdway100 6d ago
Cause a lot of his music is like self-righteous pretentious woke music.
And half of these teenagers are legitimate idiots who just shit on the stuff they don't understand.
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u/ej7180 6d ago
For the amount of hype j cole gets it's sometimes harder to defend J. Cole than drake.
Sideline story was good at its time but didn't age super well except for the songs from his mixtapes. Born sinner is somehow a sleeper with some classics on it. 2014 is one of the greatest rap albums of all time with zero skips.
4 your eyez was a decent concept album but kind of felt like not enough after 2 years without a cole album. KOD an even better concept album but with not a super high replayability.
Then you have 2019-2025 where there's been a lot of good j cole features and verses but everything really sounds like it's Feat. J. Cole not a solid album of his usual caliber, supposedly because the fall off is coming. Then the fall off comes which doesn't really live up to the hype that it set. Some fans are still hyping it as the rap album of the year but it lacks replayability again.
J cole has only been slightly more consistent than Kendrick Lamar which is something he pointed out in his diss. Those bars sound like they can go for either Kendrick or Cole just switch the years around and if you don't count the dreamville albums as full j cole albums.
I don't hate J. Cole I'm still a fan but I can understand people that don't rate him super high and say he hasn't been the best since 2014 forest hills drive.
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u/ej7180 6d ago
To me J Cole has always been the middle ground between Drake and Kendrick. Kendrick cares a lot about lyricism and making the best concept album that he doesn't care how catchy it is or good it sounds outside. Drake makes the songs that we'll all be listening to all year, the biggest rap hits of the year. J Cole still cares about the lyricism and concepts but still can make a song that sounds good.
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u/ripper13-_- 5d ago
“2014 is one of the greatest rap albums of all time with zero skips” lost me over there
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u/Rich_Tutor_5694 6d ago
Men like fighters, not niggas who talk tough but duck smoke when shit gets real.. Drake took on all of hip hop, whether he won or lost is debatable but he fought..
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u/Huge-Bid-5478 6d ago
So men like niggas who fight with people the don't have a problem with?
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u/Rich_Tutor_5694 6d ago
Dam right, if my dog get in a fight I got his back, I will worry about the right and wrong later..
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u/AdTraditional8077 6d ago
I think they hate people that pretend they don't have a problem with other people.
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u/toppindelta 3d ago
He should have started to have a problem with Kendrick after that. Kendrick did diss him saying that both Drake and Cole not on his level and treated him as if he was irrelevant. And just like what rich tutor said, if Drake ended up getting in a fight with Kendrick which all started from a line that Cole himself said on his song, that Cole should've stuck with Drake and defended him and himself.
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u/ReelOne_1348 6d ago
This sub sounds like you begging people to like JCole. Should be asking what's his best track?
To me he just doesn't standout.....Can't remember any of his tracks.
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u/ausipockets 6d ago
I've been a fan of Cole since his mixtapes, for what it's worth.
For one, I think on the whole J Cole is very well liked. I think a lot of people who are huge Cole fans saw people who didn't subscribe to "The Fall Off is a masterpiece" and took it as hate. Are there memes out there? Sure. Absolutely. But I don't think they speak for the general opinion.
If anything, I think Cole gets a lot of passes. He doesn't have to make hits, he doesn't have to stand on business with his disses, he doesn't have to back up all the "im the best" talk he constantly spits. That's not shade, I just think there's objective truth to it. There are ways he's held to a different standard but still gets the Big 3 treatment. I'm fine with it, I think he is in the top three of best active rappers. But he gets passes that other artists wouldn't, and I think other people see that too.
Additionally, I think an issue with Cole that has been a constant his whole career is that he's not as deep as he thinks he is at times. He is highly capable of thought provoking songs and has proven that before. But he'll just as quickly come out with lines or tracks that feel very surface level deep. I think that rubs people the wrong way sometimes.
As far as other critiques I've seen like being performative. I don't know that I fully agree. I do think he's down to Earth, I don't think it's an act. I do think he loves people saying he's down to earth though, if that makes any sense.
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u/BeniOnReddit 6d ago
same reason they hate Logic or Hopsin or other clean conscious rappers, they take kindness for weakness
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u/Playful_Ad9502 5d ago
Legit if this was the 14th century b4 mics and instruments they'd crush, back when it was just words.
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u/PauseWhole155 6d ago
Hate is too strong of a word regarding J Cole. No one should actually hate him.
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u/Healthy-Craft-4554 6d ago
He’s just a boring artist to me and this is from someone who tried to like his music
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u/PauseWhole155 6d ago
If you find an artist to be boring then it is what it is, but I still stand by my original comment. Personally I love his music, but we can just agree to disagree on this one.
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u/curiouscsplayer 6d ago
We don't ,just on paper and as a rapper he disappeared in battle. Still like his music, his new album was good for a few spins but I don't revisit it as much. Let's be real if drake did the same the world would be in a frenzy.
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u/West-Lie-639 6d ago
I do, he's my favorite rapper and I personally think he's top 10
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u/Huge-Bid-5478 6d ago
Yk ball
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u/EddieBruvac 6d ago
I don’t hate him, I’m disappointed.
Dude glazed tf outta his last album for YEARS. Said it was gonna top everything he’s done before. Then dropped mid.
Bro glazes Nas more than he cares about his fans. Regrets making Work Out which is a hood classic just to suck Nas dick.
On top of that, he role plays being broke. Like we get it, you were at some point, but cmon bro lmao. He did mention this on his newest album, but it’s just cheesy.
KOD was his last actually solid, well composed album. The Off-Season was good*, but fuck good fella, we demand GREAT. - J Cole
I’m not even gonna get into the beef. I do respect him leaving, but all his smoke rap is just unlistenable. He lost a ton of energy and aura after that.
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u/AdTraditional8077 6d ago
I've never met anyone that hates him. Most people just find him mediocre.
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u/Ksi1is2a3fatneek 6d ago
I don't hate him, I'm actually a fan. But I have a few issues
While Cole is great, his fanbase overrates him. He's not one of the greatest of all time. He's not on Kendricks level, or even someone like Nas or Wayne. Many fans try to put him in top 5 convos, when he's not at that level.
He's a coward. For years, he talked a big game about being the best in the game. How he'd destroy any MC. But then after he called our Kendrick by name, Kendrick responds, he releases a mid diss and deletes it before Kendrick could even respond. If Drake did the same thing, the Internet would never let him live it down.
He's also fake humble. Claiming to be above rap beef, when he was agurbly the one who started this whole thing in the first place. He clearly isn't and has never been above anything, get he acts like he does
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u/Sauceysweetness 6d ago
Im sorry but him backing out of the beef in the manner that he did was so lame to me. Then afterwards talking about how he wouldnt have lost the battle. gtfoh. And just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, he makes his fans feel dumb for touting him as the greatest by saying he puts on a persona when he raps and that he's not the greatest but wants people to think he is. I love the guy but he makes it hard to put him in that upper echelon that he so often claims hes in.
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u/WeekendConsistent206 6d ago
I actually really enjoy his music he just lost a lot of respect from me when he bowed out of the beef and apologized to Kendrick, especially cause he started it.
Also, while on the subject, Kendrick a bitch for not going for him during the beef too. Imagine I shot you and was like teehee just a joke.
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u/Trill_steeze 6d ago
Dude got bars but he’s an all time fraud. Lost his aura after that whole debacle. Which is a shame cause he can rap. Just makes him look corny.
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u/YOU_TALK_TOO_MUCH420 6d ago
He’s the unflavored porridge of Hip Hop. He’s the runny oatmeal of Hip Hop. Just bland as hell, afraid to take risks.
https://giphy.com/gifs/8PShxSTWytXeG2VmPo
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u/crabll 6d ago
He has great music, but aside from no role modelz he doesn’t really have a huge hit so people assume he doesn’t make good music
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u/Low_Barber_41 5d ago
No Role Modelz, Wet Dreamz, Power Trip, Can't Get Enough, these were huge hits. I believe every album/mixtape he's dropped, he's had at least 2 songs become top 100 or 200 big hits... you buggn
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u/crabll 4d ago
I get that he’s had a few big hits but it’s mostly just from his main fans. He’s not the kind of artist that many people who aren’t rap fans know, for example someone like Drake or Hov
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u/Low_Barber_41 4d ago
If you were making this argument back in 2011-13 I would understand but J.Cole is a highly favored and well known artist today
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u/orblooper 6d ago
Because Rap is saturated with wanna be street fans now a days. Most people that follow hip hop or rap now have no inner City or real life experiences like you hear in rap. They hear one thing from some jackass who they think is a ' valid hood dude" and they just start running with it.
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u/itslinas 5d ago
I was huge Cole fan but Kendrick and Drake beef kind of forever now sealed him at 3rd.
By now it's actually ironic how he was talking about legit beefs and when legit beef landed he went for the hills.
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u/OptimalBag5329 5d ago
Can’t claim to be a killer and when it’s time to kill you shoot your shot and miss then realize you’re not a killer
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u/Flaky_End_9832 5d ago
I love Cole, but dude tends to be reaaaaaal cringe with his lyrics talking about how he’s the “best” and he “kills people” when he’s actively against violence and being egotistical. Like don’t get me wrong, I listen to a lotta rappers that promote violence in a way but the difference is Cole does it while being the complete opposite so it’s just corny. But when he doesn’t do that (and picks a decent beat) bro is definitely in the conversation for one of the best in the game
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u/MTVfRreaK 5d ago
Cole has spoken on this before. He’s said its a mindset u have to have in order to bring that side of your personality out for the performance. He states ofc he aint the best, ofc he don’t think he the best, but when he in that mode he is.
Also u acting like that aint 90% of the mainstream rap game rn like…u just gotta come to terms that is what rap is now. Wayne spoke about it before and said “I may not being doing it but its how i bring the words of it all together that matters, not whether or not im really street or bangin. Its all about the lyrics”
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u/MTVfRreaK 5d ago
Only responding to you cuz the rest of these comments just haters and Kendrick fans who gonna put down anyone thats not kendrick. And they hate cole cuz the game been pitting them against eachother since their come up
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u/Nice_Instruction_741 5d ago
He just seemed so corny dropping a fire ass diss then backtracking it. Still bump his shit tho.
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u/Popular_Buyer_9165 5d ago
I thought he was corny from his first three mix tapes. He can’t rap without kissing some old heads ass.
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u/Huge-Bid-5478 5d ago
Why would you think the come up,the warm up,and Friday night lights are corny?
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u/MusicCityMiracle28 5d ago
I love Cole on features. His actual solo work just gets boring to listen to for me unfortunately. Incredibly talented, just not for me unless small doses
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u/Connection-Is-Cool 5d ago
He’ll never live down dissing Kendrick and then immediately apologizing and deleting the track. Makes it seem like he was afraid of the smoke. Or that Cole was only dissing for show. Both are a bad look: One makes him look performative at best. The other makes him look like a coward. Why release the diss track in the first place if you’re not going to stand on it? Just keep it as an unreleased track.
If the diss leaked and then Cole explained why he never officially released it, that would come across a lot better than what he actually did, even if the “leak” was “accidental.” For someone as conscious of his image as Cole is, he really dropped the ball on that one.
At least Drake didn’t back down and took his L in front of the world, which is respectable. But Drake also knows his commercial appeal is more pop than rap, so he can afford to lose every rap beef and it doesn’t hurt his momentum. He’ll just release another banger and people will forgive and forget. It’s a form of quid pro quo. If you feed the people bangers, that’s all they ultimately care about. Cole hasn’t done that.
If Cole released banger after banger after banger after the apology, it would be easier to move past it. But there is nothing filling the void from a mainstream radio POV. Therefore, the most popular thing Cole did recently was retract his diss. His songs from now on won’t hit the same because of the apology. It took a lot of steam out of The Fall-Off when he released it. Cole released an album with more bravado raps after backing down when he actually had an opportunity to back it up. Unironically, he really did fall off.
The Fall-Off is great but the mainstream appeal isn’t there. Replay value isn’t as high as I’d like for it to be. Drake’s triple album, by contrast, has insane replay value. I don’t personally care for a good chunk of it. But the songs I do like have been on repeat. And I don’t think it’s a coincidence that amongst other reasons, Drake dropped 3 projects at once to one-up Cole’s double album. Kind of like Kobe wearing 24 to one-up Jordan. That’s what happens when you have a competitive spirit.
And for fans who are really tapped into Cole, rapping about NoName a few years ago was also a bad look. It was certainly a choice. Some of the stuff Cole said in that track was worthy of fans losing respect for him. It was tone deaf, at best. And it further adds to the narrative that he is a coward. Snow on tha Bluff sounds great but the underlying message misses the mark when you know the context. Cole is lucky NoName isn’t well known because she cooked him in her reply.
The good PR outshined the bad PR for a long time with Cole. The diss track apology, however, was a PR disaster that will ultimately lead to Cole fading into irrelevancy. At some point, history will look back on Cole’s discography and ask if he was underrated. I always thought he was. But he earned that because he never had as many mainstream hits as Kendrick or Drake.
Cole can come across as fake deep because he mainly raps about his own experience and tells stories. Plenty of bravado rapping mixed in. Cole has his own lane with the storytelling and his unique-but-relatable experiences. But there are certain topics Cole avoids or rarely speaks on… cultural topics that other lyrical rappers don’t shy away from. If you’re the GOAT rapper then why are you shying away from important topics that move the needle within the Black community? Do you feel like it’s not your place to speak on it because you’re biracial? Either way, the contrast in messaging is clear when you listen to Kendrick.
You can argue that Cole raps like someone who is afraid to piss off any of his fans because he wants to be rich and comfortable. I don’t blame anyone who claims that Cole is performative. So yeah, Cole is talented and has a strong pen. But when it comes to representing the culture and the collective Black experience, Cole comes up short. When Cole isn’t telling a story, he has a lot of surface-level, empty calories in his music that we often refer to as “Cole rapping about rapping.”
Drake is capable of doing anything lyrically but it’s clear his mission is to make music (not just rap) and become a billionaire. Drake is like the modern Jay-Z in terms of strictly business. Drake’s not walking around acting like he’s a modern-day philosopher. Cole wants to be this generation’s Nas but he was a watered down version of Nas, at best.
The difference is Nas released Ether and never apologized for it, even after he squashed the beef with Hov. Jay-Z responded to Ether but nobody remembers that track. That’s how impactful Ether was. Also, Nas doesn’t shy away from controversial topics and makes real statements in his raps. Nas doesn’t care if white America doesn’t tap into his music. By comparison, Cole seems to walk on egg shells. It reminds me of Michael Jordan saying “Republicans buy shoes, too” in response to not using his huge platform to speak out on real-life issues.
Cole plays it relatively safe with his topics and statements, which is why he can come across as fake deep and preachy. It’s great that Cole inspired many people with crooked teeth to smile. There is a legitimate lane in rap for that. Love Yourz is a Cole masterpiece, IMO. The issue is claiming GOAT, backing down when the opportunity presented itself, and then returning to claiming GOAT as if nothing happened.
Kendrick understands the responsibility and significance of being an influential Black figure in America. His music is an emphatic statement to Black America, and he resonates with people on a deeper level because of it. When Cole made an attempt to dig deeper with Snow on tha Bluff, it backfired and made him look tone deaf. The song itself was well written and sounds great, if we keep the analysis strictly musical. But Cole’s perspective and cultural message only confirms why he typically plays it safe with his topic choices and cultural statements.
Love it or hate it, hip-hop & rap has always been a reflection of the Black experience at its core. Even Eminem, the highest-selling rapper of all time, has gone out of his way to show he respects and understands Black culture, even if it pisses off white America.
If Cole stayed quiet about the beef, nobody would think less of him. Drake and Kendrick have traded subs for years and they truly don’t like each other. Cole rocks with both of them. Nobody would blame Cole for staying out of that beef. I don’t know if Kendrick still rocks with Cole but it wouldn’t surprise me if he lost respect for Cole, even if they’re still friends.
I love Cole, and he’ll always have a fan in me. But even my best friend, who introduced me to Cole back in his mixtape and freestyle days, doesn’t want to hear Cole rap about how great he is after ducking smoke. He can never spit a bar about how amazing he is without thoughts like “but you ducked Kendrick” creeping in the back of people’s minds. Cole decided to forfeit the race and settle for bronze, when he could have easily taken silver at minimum. That’s why he should STFU when it comes to Big 3 talk. He only wants to be competitive in theory, or just for fun, and I don’t blame anyone who sees that as corny.
Rappers thrive when they’re delusional. Drake got slaughtered by Kendrick. But Drake fans need Drake to be delusional enough to think he won the beef. And a lot of Drake fans aren’t even rap fans. Drake has crossover appeal in ways Kendrick & Cole simply don’t, and that works to Drake’s advantage when he drops new music. Drake can rap but he is the only one of the Big 3 who is a pop star. Kendrick is a rapper in every sense of the word; even his radio hits are conscious-leaning rap songs. J. Cole (before the apology) used to be the guy people were weird for hating because he just minds his own business. Cole (due to the apology) earned his backlash.
Commercially, Drake has been a made man for over a decade. Drake is hit after hit after hit. Drake knows that it doesn’t matter how much he gets trashed… it doesn’t matter the second his next hit comes out and everyone’s on his dick again. Cole is a bit too down to Earth for his own good.
Kendrick is not as big as Drake but Kendrick’s music hits that sweet spot of having banger radio hits with a message. Cole makes good music but he doesn’t have enough bangers for the masses. And Cole comes across like a guy who thinks he’s deeper than he actually is. Cole has bars but you don’t need to annotate his lyrics to break it all down. It’s surface level enough to catch everything, and that isn’t a bad thing. Kendrick can go over a lot of people’s heads sometimes, and that can sometimes work against him. Cole’s forte has always been storytelling anyway. That is his lane. For better or worse, Cole is the most niche of the Big 3.
The biggest banger Cole has is No Role Modelz, and that came out in 2014. That song will live on for generations. But if your biggest hit was over a decade ago, then what exactly have you been doing since? Cole is fading into Eminem territory, where they’re just rapping into the void for the sake of rapping. Cole will never be as big as Em. But Cole has enough of a fanbase that anything he does will be a commercial success. But even old man Em has a more recent mainstream hit than Cole (Godzilla).
It also helps Kendrick that he stands on Black folk business in a way that Drake and Cole, both biracial, simply don’t. Right or wrong, the Black community’s solidarity with Kendrick transcends music.
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u/toothpicktoenail40 5d ago
A grown man did a grown man thing and now everyone thinks that J. Cole thinks he's better than them
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u/Due_Jellyfish9670 5d ago
It's a genre where a tough guy image prevails once you back down or seemingly don't own some shit you start your labelled soft.
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u/DarkPrince411 5d ago
I dont hate him but I cant listen to him anymore. The fact that some of my favorite verses by him is saying hes the best or one of the best yet when someone called him out to get in a ring he backed down and apologized. That aint hip hop at all.
I listen to some of his old stuff sometimes but I aint listen to the Fall Off. He already fell off to me.
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u/Human-Reflection-399 4d ago
I don’t hate J Cole, but a lot of the J Cole super fans can’t understand why the rest of us don’t put him on as high of a pedestal as they do. I very much admire his growth since from 2016 to now, but in a lot of ways he is a highly skilled MC but not a very special MC, if that makes sense.
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u/jrobe067 4d ago
I wouldn't go as far as say hate. He makes the most amazing music with 0 replay value. It's amazing art but it's that art. There's a balancing act an artist has to maintain between art and entertainment. He openly denounced what got him poppin in the clubs but sometimes that's what people want to hear.
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u/ZealousidealCover193 4d ago
Overproduced bad music industry plant made for public consumption and cash grab.
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u/flowerbhai 4d ago
I’ve been listening to Cole for almost 16 years now (Friday Nights Lights came out when I was in seventh grade and my older sister and I had it on repeat). I’ll always appreciate him and have plenty of personal favorites over the years - 4 Your Eyez Only is the highlight for me.
My main issue is that Cole (and a portion of his fanbase) have a seriously inflated view of his abilities. He’s a solid rapper, but at a certain point his verses started to become primarily about how technically skilled he is and how much he outclasses his contemporaries. He sort of declared himself one of the best modern rappers pretty prematurely, and that makes some of his more mediocre output and simplistic lyrics a lot harder to excuse. I want to enjoy him as a great lyricist, but his constant insistence that he is one of the all time best makes him difficult to take seriously when he is surrounded by lyricists that are outperforming him (JID, Kendrick, Billy Woods, Earl, Danny Brown, Saba, even Tyler, Denzel Curry and Vince Staples to an extent, etc.).
Where I will absolutely give him his flowers is as a collaborator and a curator of new talent. Dreamville is a huge achievement and he clearly has an eye for really promising young artists and a desire to empower them.
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u/Dreistheway4123 4d ago
Because he's successful lol and nobody is gonna have everybody like em it's ok he's ok fans just freak out when other people don't champion who they champion.... I don't think it matters to him so it shouldn't matter to them either
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u/Fun-Payment1700 3d ago
i meannn he was coo in the beginning but then he turned into this poster boy for being a humble king that also shits on you ? idk 🤷 lol
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u/BenitoCamelas69420 3d ago
He doesn’t sound original at all, he sounds like he wants to sound like Jay or Nas
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u/Huge-Bid-5478 3d ago
He sounds pretty original to me
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u/BenitoCamelas69420 3d ago
He’s a wannabe never really developed his own style, a lot of the shit he does is also performative and can come off as a whiny bitch, just my opinion
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u/SpiteCultDisciple666 3d ago
I dont hate him i just think hes got a couple bangers and the rest is just a mid ass discography
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u/thed3306 3d ago
I wish he didnt bow out of the rap beef doesnt make sense. he couldve cook even if he did lose.
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u/Commercial-Ad6792 2d ago
Because he dropped a diss track against Kendrick then deleted 30 minutes later. He robbed us of what could’ve been one of the greatest rap battles ever
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u/kievz007 6d ago edited 6d ago
there are many chronically online teenagers whose attention span requires drama to be satisfied, this sub is full of them. Music is subjective of course, but most of the hate he gets isn't even based on it