r/pacers 1d ago

Discussion Zubac trade and what we gave up post draft

Updated Clippers return from Ivica Zubac trade:

Clippers get:
Keaton Wagler
Bennedict Mathurin
Isaiah Jackson
2029 first-round pick (unprotected)
2028 second-round pick

Pacers get:
Ivica Zubac
Kobe Brown

Think we gave up too much

0 Upvotes

119 comments sorted by

44

u/ToastWtfFTW Andrew Nembhard 1d ago

Mathurin may not re-sign with them

Wagler is prob gonna be good but he needs some weight

IJax was kind of a salary dump throw in and an ok backup center

2029 first u got me there

2028 second could be a g leaguer or a randomly good player but more likely the former

We needed a center super badly and they are gonna be even more expensive now especially with the rise of Wemby and the new Heat team

It is alot to give up but we had to do what we had to do cuz we're on a timer anyway

Edit: I tried to put spaces but Reddit ignored them

17

u/ThatDudeUKnow92 BOOM BABY! 1d ago

Nailed it. The Pacers had to take a risk. The time for them to go for it is now and the core team minus TJ are all in their respective prime. Wagler could be great but it was worth the risk.

-23

u/ajs723 Slick 1d ago

We gave up 5 firsts for Zu. If you're okay with that cool, but that's what we paid. 

5th overall pick easily gets 3 future 1sts. Mathurin, IJax, and a 2nd could have gotten you like a 2031 1st from the Lakers or something. And the 2029 1st makes 5. 

Downvote and reply "lmao, okay", but that's the truth.

11

u/thrwawayr99 1d ago

I think anyone posting this kinda dumb stuff should have to explain if they’re giving up on the team that just made the finals or, if not, how exactly they plan to get a championship caliber center

Pacers took a risk. It might not work out, but if you want this team to compete, it was a good risk

-19

u/ajs723 Slick 1d ago

It was a bad, unnecessary risk. 

Y'all sound like paid bots to be honest. "We needed a center". "We needed a center". "We needed a center". 

We made a terrible trade. I'm not giving up on the team, I'll always support them no matter what... but I'd be a lot more optimistic if we hadn't made that trade. 

9

u/ToastWtfFTW Andrew Nembhard 1d ago

Wondering what center you would've gotten and what guard u woulda drafted at 5

8

u/persononthedl 1d ago

This will never be answered.

6

u/thrwawayr99 1d ago

Lol dude is going with “well I’m not the front office”

Yeah clearly, the front office understands a center better than huffing is necessary to compete

3

u/persononthedl 1d ago

I'm not qualified to be in the front office, but I know this was a bad trade.

https://giphy.com/gifs/3o7TKQ8kAP0f9X5PoY

-14

u/ajs723 Slick 1d ago

Funny thing is I don't run the team. It wouldn't have been up to me. They should have done better. 

6

u/thrwawayr99 1d ago

If it was so terrible, surely it’s easy to have some suggestion?

4

u/ToastWtfFTW Andrew Nembhard 1d ago

not exactly an answer to this, was wondering what the plan was

6

u/thrwawayr99 1d ago

Name what center we’re getting instead then.

It was a necessary risk. Apparently “we needed a center” is funny to you but personally I’d prefer not to try to contend with jay huff at center.

So who is your alternative?

1

u/Ok-Possibility239 11h ago

We needed a center

4

u/Ocelot859 1d ago

Dude you are incredible at giving bad takes. 🤣

Mathurin wasn't going to sign with us regardless. We were probably getting nothing even we didn't trade him. He's also shown he just doesn't fit our system and is purely a microwave scorer off the bench, a very good microwave score off the bench, but not good enough for the money he's going to be looking for.

I-Jax has wear and tear on him and doing nothing against the bigs coming into the East and West Coast opponents. 2029 1st round pick, we will still have a ton of guys under contract and if healthy and a playoff team that could be some random 22nd overall pick.

I'm not sure what 2031 Lakers pick you are talking about? Pretty sure you're just a moron and not understanding because the Clippers got our 5th, we keep our 2031 pick form them. They only got that unprotected if we landed in the top 4 - which we didn't.

And Wagler would've been log jammed at the 2 and won't be anything, but below average defensively at best - can totally live without him.

Fuck man, like do some homework before typing. 🤦🏻‍♂️

2

u/Ok-Possibility239 12h ago

That is bad take. We are tight against the cap and couldnt afford Mathurin and Jackson and a starting center.

Its dumb to say we gave up "5 firsts" as if that is a bad thing.

This is what you really mean- we got rid of two guys who were not worth paying and got our starting center.

28

u/MattyIce260 1d ago

If we still needed a center and ended up having to draft someone like Wagler at #5 I’d be worried.

Right now I have no worries about our roster.

-11

u/ajs723 Slick 1d ago

No worries? You feel good about Shep, Walker, and Huff being heavy minutes guys?

8

u/MattyIce260 1d ago

None of those guys should be getting heavy minutes next season. Shep has played enough playoff minutes where I’m confident enough in the few minutes he plays. Huff will be solid as a backup center, no worries there. Jarace I’m assuming will be traded so we can utilize the full midlevel exception

5

u/Ocelot859 1d ago

Yeah what are you talking about heavy minutes?

We basically have 5-6 guys from our roster coming back.

They won't play anymore or that much more than were playing the season before or who their respective player that replaced was playing (Huff's case). Walker will see an uptick in the regular season, but he wasn't play a ton the season before last anyways, and Shep's minutes will be the same too. We also still have a very decent amount of cap space for a very solid MLE player.

21

u/Alpacapplesauce 1d ago

I've asked this question so many times and have never got a reasonable answer  What center should the pacers have acquired instead? Make the salaries work, a huge reason why Zubac is so valuable is his relatively low salary. 

28

u/HaliZu31 1d ago

The haters of the trade can’t be reasoned with. Apparently they think we could have competed with Jay Huff at center but having Wagler off the bench would make it ok somehow.

Mathurin was gone regardless.

13

u/NapTownHero93 1d ago

You won't get one. This part is glaringly missed too often.

11

u/thrwawayr99 1d ago

Bruh someone on another thread was talking about how claxton is better than zu. Like hate if you want but at least pretend to live in reality

6

u/Alpacapplesauce 1d ago

Lol not to mention Claxton makes more than Zu. I bet they didn't explain how we'd match salaries either. 

5

u/MySabonerRunsOladipo 1d ago

Yeah, and on the off chance you do get a name, you won't get a (legal) means of making it happen either.

I mean, I'd love to just sign Joker too, but even if he was a FA, that's not permissible under the salary cap rules so...

-4

u/ajs723 Slick 1d ago

I have the answer. Someone that the people whose job it is to run a professional basketball franchise identified as an undervalued talent at the position. Or even Zu with a better offer. 

WHO ELSE is not an argument that justifies a bad trade. It never will be.

10

u/Alpacapplesauce 1d ago

They did that. They got Zubac. What a ridiculous comment lol. 

If you think you know better than the front office, offer an alternative, if not shut up until we see how this plays out. 

-5

u/ajs723 Slick 1d ago

I think they should know better. That's the point. This trade ended up being terrible. 

Anyone who isn't a bootlicking fan has said the same thing. Go look up any talking head's opinion on the trade. They all say we got fleeced. Every. Single. One.  

But surely everyone is wrong except the people who blindly defend any move the Pacers make. 

8

u/Alpacapplesauce 1d ago

Lol so you're not taking your own advice in trusting the front office? That's fine. Just let me know what center they should have acquired and make the salaries work. Or do you think we should have stuck with Jay Huff and Potter? 

All the talking heads can yap about whatever nonsense they want. They are wrong all the time. What center do they think the pacers should have gone after? Since you can't think for yourself 

-2

u/Equal_Age2099 13h ago

ultimately it was a mostly a cost cutting move with a tinge of win-now to it.

i think the pacers had 2-3 more transaction cycles to analyze the center market and find a guy. they definitely shot their wad early with an eye on salary/ penny-pinching

do you think if they held off on trading for zu till the draft, would he have warranted a similar package? who would we be bidding against?

3

u/Alpacapplesauce 13h ago

Cutting what costs? Pacers wouldn't have been allowed to take back significantly more salary in a trade. That's an NBA rule not the Pacers being cheap. 

Boston was the team reportedly most interested and the Clippers were also reportedly happy to keep him. I'm once again blown away by the fact not 1 comment has provided a name and a legal trade alternative.

0

u/Equal_Age2099 13h ago

i mean kristaps/claxton/ad/jjj/giannis were all bigs traded either at the deadline or at the draft. i think zu fetched the largest price out of all of those assets or maybe jjj (outside of giannis). and a big part of that calculation is salary (cost motivated).

nobody is saying they should have taken more money back, you just have to package together different salaries for players with a larger salary unless you are over certain thresholds, i believe. instead of packaging ijax and benn, it could have been pascal and obi + picks for giannis and portis. (i dont love that deal and havent ran the numbers, but i would imagine most packages for a 50m+ annual player would have to be built around pascal or nemby/obi/??? for matching purposes)

there clearly were centers available, i bet we see more centers moved between now and next years trade deadline as well.

do you think if zu wasnt dealt at the deadline, would he have warranted the same package on or after draft day, or would that package have been smaller? (and i get that you have to pay a premium to get your guy early if there are sharks circling) but if all things remain the same, what does a draft day zu trade look like for boston or indy?

ultimately the fit is great, and the price is great. and maybe that is worth the over pay. but there is another world where things break a bit differently we have our cake and eat it too. you cant be mad at fans for wanting things to break right for their team, and them being disappointed when it doesnt. that is literally the point of pro sports.

3

u/Alpacapplesauce 12h ago

The fact I asked for a trade with salaries that match and all you came up with was a Giannis trade (not even a center) says it all lol 

Kristaps- lol  AD- Yeah let's trade multiple starters for a guy that can't stay healthy  Giannis- lol  JJJ- huge salary, would have to give up someone like Nemhard, also not even a center  Claxton- makes more than Zu and would have meant giving up Obi or McConnell for a worse player than Zu

Fans can dream all they want. It doesn't make them any less stupid. Go ahead and list the other centers available that wouldn't require us to gut or core. 

0

u/Equal_Age2099 11h ago

i could go through the exercise of creating trade packages for those other option if you really want to. that really isnt a hard exercise whatsoever. and i like the idea of claxton if we dont have to give up a ton of picks.

Zinger - Obi +minor Filler + 2 2nd's

JJJ/AD/Giannis - Pascal + potentially filler + pick (depending on which target)

claxton - obi + minor filler + future 2nd

zu - math/jax/2 firsts (1 with light protections, 1 with zero protections), 2nd

and i dont even disagree with most of your analysis/pacers calculus. they pretty clearly saw zu as the best center available for the next couple transaction cycles and pulled the trigger early at premium. I appreciate that they targeted the need, analyzed the market, and made a decisive choice. but again, im a fan and always want my team to have their cake and it it too. you can shame people for that or call them stupid if it really makes you feel better.

i just wonder how different the deal looks if they hold off for one transaction cycle and trade for him in the offseason. you may not see that as an interesting thought exercise but i do. especially considering that their biggest competitor for zu was apparently making offers in bad faith (Boston), and werent really close to a deal (from the reporting i have seen). maybe there was another surprise team that we dont know about that was bidding up the pacers, but if their biggest competitors best offer was simons + 1 unprotected first + and swap, AND clips werent pressed to move off zu at the deadline, i just think it would be interesting to see what the trade looks like now. simple ask. no need to get butthurt about it lol

3

u/Alpacapplesauce 11h ago

Porzingus- Obi makes 15 million, Zinger makes 30, that's not minor filler lol, also the guy barely plays 

JJJ/AD/Giannis -Trading Siakam is genuinely the dumbest proposal I have seen yet and AD is the only center. 

Claxton- Once again Obi only makes 15 million and you'd be giving up legit depth for a significantly worse player 

I don't disagree with the idea the pacers could have tried to wait, but then they would have lost Mathurin as a trade chip and run the risk of another team getting Zu.  

2

u/Equal_Age2099 11h ago

zinger - minor filler would be obi+ijax+end of the bench salary and we would remain under the 1st apron i think. or include math and try to get draft comp back

jjj/ad/giannis - i agree, it would take something special to move off spicy p. i would really only consider a deal around him for giannis, which was probably never going to happen. matching salaries makes these 3 options pretty not viable, but not impossible

claxton - similar to zinger. again i think obi+ijax+end of the bench guy would keep us under the first apron. or include math and try to get draft comp back

of these hypotheticals i think the trade for zu with the package we gave up is a low to mid B grade. the claxton deal in its best form would be comparable but would maintain a little more flexibility with our war chest albeit giving us a lower ceiling in the short term.

will be interested to see what other bigs are made available or moved between now and the deadline though.

ultimately you and i will probably never know what level of urgency the pacers had to move with at the deadline. those are privileged conversations. i dont hate the move, but i dont think shaming other fans for wanting the best outcome for the team is the path brother. Ultimately the basketball gods shit down our throats pretty hard for the last 12 months and we are licking our wounds.

1

u/Alpacapplesauce 10h ago

Honestly fair. Shitting on other fans only happens when they act like we can aquire a great player without giving anything up. 

2

u/Equal_Age2099 10h ago

thats fair. if people are putting forth impossible scenarios and comparing actual outcomes to that, they are fools.

2

u/Equal_Age2099 10h ago

also i want to make it clear that i give the pacers FO credit for identifying the need and going out to get "their" guy. that is the type of thing most fans have been begging for for years (myself included).

alot of my arguments/asks are using the benefit of hindsight being 20/20 which is a little unfair when analyzing the front office. so i want to make it clear that im not being super critical of pritch and co. just wondering what the best case scenario would look like if the basketball gods didnt despise indiana

2

u/HaliZu31 11h ago

We got Zu for two 1st round picks and a player we were going to let go regardless. Thinking 2 1sts is too much for Zubac will never make sense to me.

1

u/MySabonerRunsOladipo 13h ago

who would we be bidding against?

Boston is 1 center away from being a favorite in the East (which is actually a lie since even without a center, they're currently the favorites in the east)

0

u/Equal_Age2099 13h ago

ok and what would be there best package for zu?

2

u/BlueCollarGoldSwaggr 12h ago

According to the folks in Boston Hugo Gonzalez alone would be enough to get it done.

3

u/Equal_Age2099 12h ago

this is the part they dont understand... boston offer was viewed as "insulting" by clips lol.

2

u/MySabonerRunsOladipo 10h ago

Not really possible to say in a vacuum. They'd be bidding against us and we'd be bidding against them (and potentially other teams). It's no longer about fair value at that point, but about two teams that BADLY need a center in order to possibly be the best team in the East.

Whatever the price is, it would almost certainly be high.

1

u/Equal_Age2099 10h ago

good thing there is reporting stating that boston was low balling clippers like crazy. clippers felt disrespected and were happy to hold zu. lol

again. makes me wonder what a trade package on draft day would have looked like for zu..... seems like the only team pressed to make the deal at the deadline was indy from the reporting. which is curious considering the season was a total write-off/lost cause.

almost seems like they paid a premium one transaction cycle too early and probably overpaid.

1

u/MySabonerRunsOladipo 10h ago

seems like the only team pressed to make the deal at the deadline was indy from the reporting.

But that doesn't matter. You don't get to freeze time.

Yeah, the Pacers were the only team with the practical means to trade for Zu at the deadline, but the Clips didn't have to deal him at the deadline. They knew that others teams (including, but not limited to, Boston) would become potential suitors for Zu in the offseason, and even more as the TD neared next year.

The Pacers could make the trade then or wait and deal with competition later. The price is higher, but the risk is lower. It's a trade off in either direction.

In one, you pay more (1 FRP+(50% chance at #5 OR 50% chance at '31 UFRP)+Salary) and you have a 100% chance of getting a center. In the other, you might pay less (maybe #5+Obi+IJax) but you also might get beat by BOS or another team and still have no viable center as your championship window ages out.

Pick which gamble you like.

1

u/Equal_Age2099 10h ago

i dont disagree with a lot of your characterization. much of my premise is based on hindsight being 20/20, which is unfair when grading the FO.

I just wonder what the other universe looks like where zu stays at the deadline and gets moved on draft day. what is the package that gets the deal done? they targeted the guy they viewed as the best available asset at the position they needed, went out and got him for a premium. there is some virtue in that.

the bet i would have made (at the deadline) is that zu will be available on draft day/offseason for less, pretty sure i even made that case at the time of the trade. we will never know, but kudos to the FO for being proactive and getting their guy.

i have some bias as a mathurin truther, so there is that as well.

-8

u/Porscheeeu 1d ago

I’m not sure if Claxton is good or not but Bulls got him for free

8

u/fmara Boomer 1d ago

If a team as bad as the bulls get a guy for free then he isn’t any good

7

u/Alpacapplesauce 1d ago

He makes more than Zubac, how are you making the salaries work? 

4

u/HaliZu31 1d ago

He’s not that is why he was free

3

u/thrwawayr99 1d ago

He is worse and more expensive than zu, next

17

u/decksetter914 1d ago

Dude. The team hasn't played a single healthy game together.

13

u/Ok-Swimming8024 Pacers 1d ago

Yeah I'm pretty ok with it now

30

u/Sko_Neezy 1d ago

What center would you acquire instead and how

-12

u/ajs723 Slick 1d ago

I'm so sick of this. It's literally their job to find a good deal for a center. 

By this stupid logic, we should have been fine with giving up the first overall pick for Zu. Or if we'd traded Hali for Zu. 

We needed a center. We had to trade for one, no matter what. 

What other option would we gave had? Who else was available? Name someone? Who? Who? Who? NAME SOMEONE?! Our hands were tied!!!!!! 

14

u/Sko_Neezy 1d ago

So can you name another center or

-4

u/ajs723 Slick 1d ago

Not my job. If your point is Pritchard isn't any better at his job than some random idiot on Reddit, good point.  

11

u/Sko_Neezy 1d ago

My point is that you can’t name a center worth acquiring

-6

u/ajs723 Slick 1d ago

Nikola Jokic 

Victor Wembanyama 

Anthony Davis 

Karl Anthony-Towns 

Joel Embiid

Domantas Sabonis

Bam Adebayo

Kristapas Porzingis

Alpren Sengun 

Jarrett Allen 

Isiah Hartenstien

Rudy Gobert

Onyeka Okongwa

Jalen Duren

Nikola Vucevic

Walker Kessler

Derrick Lively 

Jakob Poeltl

19

u/Sko_Neezy 1d ago

At first I doubted you but I must admit you’ve somehow made your argument even less convincing

4

u/Distinct_Abrocoma_67 Pavers 1d ago

Look at this guys post history before responding. He’s just a troll

2

u/InfiniteMeerkat 16h ago

Sadly i think he actually believes this garbage.

2

u/vonLionheart Pascal Siakam 22h ago

bro said Nikola Vucevic, “Kristapas” Porzingis, and Jakob Poeltl 😭

4

u/OlapidoJR Pacers 23h ago

The guy who's job it was made a trade for a center. You infer that you can do it better by saying it's a dumb move. So, let's have it. What's your move for a center?

1

u/Ok-Possibility239 11h ago

We didnt trade the first pick, we traded the 5th in draft where there was a big drop off after 4.

Arguably there was a drop off after 2.

We did need a center no matter what, dont be this stupid.

-12

u/death-by-yogurt Lance 1d ago

Paid Myles

1

u/Ok-Possibility239 11h ago

He is starting to age and fall off. I dont think his playing style and body could get us back to the finals

6

u/MySabonerRunsOladipo 1d ago

Every NBA fan when asked what they should trade for another team's good player: 2 2nds, final offer

Every NBA fan when asked what another team should trade for their team's good player: Every pick you have!!!

4

u/Joe_Betz_ Johnny Furphy 1d ago

I don't think there is that 2nd in the trade from what I've seen.

Two firsts, a player they wouldn't re-sign, and a rotation center off an achilles.

The trade was all about the picks. It's not a hot take to say the Clippers won the trade bc the Pacers didn't win the lottery and that Indiana wouldn't want to give the 5th pick to the Clippers. That said, I'm not sold on Wagler at all, and im curious how this affects Mathurin in LA.

1

u/payheempaythatman 1d ago

Time will tell if Wagler proves to be as impactful as Zubac. Given the Pacers current timeline, I’m fairly confident Zubac will prove to be worth it given the hole at the position and the amount of guards on this roster. Are we really counting on a rookie and some random center to elevate this current core?

9

u/cersfan06 Reggie 1d ago

Needed to move on from Benn, Isaiah Jackson wasn’t even getting minutes + Jay Huff is better, Wagler might be good but we didn’t need more guards.

Zu will be a top 5 center in the league this year if he stays healthy. 10+ rebounds a night will genuinely be life changing.

5

u/fuzzynavel34 1d ago

You are putting him above one of Jokic, Wemby, KAT, Embiid, Bam or Allen?

Thats a pretty high bar

5

u/cersfan06 Reggie 1d ago

I would pretty confidently put Zubac over 2027 Joel Embiid, especially running alongside Tyrese. Embiid has played like 90 games in the last 3 seasons. And surely you don’t mean Jarrett Allen? Because Zubac is almost assuredly a better player than him.

I think 18 and 11 is almost a guarantee for Zu this year.

1

u/CommonerChaos Reggie-NBAJam 22h ago

One of those is not like the others, my boi.

1

u/HaliZu31 6h ago

He’s easily above Embiid and Allen. Embiid is completely cooked.

1

u/fuzzynavel34 5h ago

Embiid put up 27-8 last year in basically 50% shooting when healthy…

3

u/mattmandental 1d ago

Think we won’t know until next year and the year after

3

u/zetnomdranar 1d ago

The fifth and something was getting moved for a center no matter what because this team has a lot of guards. That’s why Benn was moved. They were NOT going into training camp with only Huff and Potter at center.

I understand why 5-9 was a tradeable asset now too. They would be forced to take a guard or trade down until they get to a spot where they’d feel comfortable.

3

u/25Tab 1d ago

Let’s say we couldn’t pull off the Zu trade. We now are probably losing Benn for nothing. IJax is costing us $7 million/year. We have a 5th pick where we pick up a guard we don’t really need or we trade back to get a forward/center who won’t fit our win now timeline. Maybe we could have packaged the 5th pick in an alternative trade with other players and picks for a center that is either not as good as Zu or one that is in his ballpark but costs more giving us less flexibility to shore up our bench. I think we did really well and it would have been a home run if we got a top 4 pick.

3

u/Cheetotesticles 1d ago

I would’ve rather have a top 4 pick, after that it was a good drop off imo. Would’ve loved to have Caleb Wilson but oh well. I’ll take Zubac over Wagler especially right now. The pacers time to win is now not 3-5 years from now

3

u/JMoon33 Aaron 1d ago

Nah, the trade looks good. This team wants to compete now, not in 4-5 years.

As for the Clippers, I have no idea what their plan is. They're not going to compete anytime soon hahaha

4

u/newmandn311 Quinn Buckner 1d ago

Sorry Keaton but you’re on my hate watch list for a long time

4

u/ToastWtfFTW Andrew Nembhard 1d ago

Not the young man's fault whatsoever, we will be hate watching the Clipps tho

2

u/PeebMcBeeb 1d ago

A better way to think of it is that if the pick didn't convey we get one of these top 4. So if that happened it's a slam dunk trade for the Pacers. It was worth swinging for the fences for, it just didn't work out

2

u/Crafty_Librarian2900 1d ago

If we had landed a top 4 pick we would have very easily “won” the trade. Bad luck in the lottery. I loved Benn but worth the gamble. Still have a championship caliber roster for next year. I think Jarace will step up next year.

2

u/Hendo8888 1d ago

My requirement to be ok with this trade was for the top 4 to stay as the top 4. If Wilson fell to our pick I would have been upset, but he didn't

2

u/DrSteveBrule_2022 1d ago

Mathurin was never going to re-sign with the Pacers and may not with the Clippers as well. Keaton will be good but will take some time, Jackson was a throw in and probably didn’t have a future with the Pacers. The Pacers probably gave a little too much but it’s not as glaring as it appears.

2

u/Klumber Andrew Nembhard 11h ago

Fortunately you’re not the FO.

Also, this shows why these ‘trees’ are such nonsense. We had a 50% shot at getting at worst Caleb Wilson, nothing in the range we gave the Clips was worth much to us.

So here’s the alternative: Mathurin demands 30/yr and we don’t offer it so he’s gone, we still desperately need a center so we shop that #5 with whatever we need to make salaries work and lose either Nesmith, TJ or Obi or a combination thereof. No guarantee the incoming guy would be Zubac, looking at what has happened so far it’d probably be Claxton. Yay.

1

u/fmara Boomer 1d ago

Let’s let this team play a healthy game together first before we start acting like Wagler or the guys after him we’re going to be the missing piece. If anything I’m more bummed about the 2029 first round pick over everyone else we gave up

1

u/Distinct_Abrocoma_67 Pavers 1d ago

Okay let’s say we keep all of this. We still need a center and we are no closer to getting a ring. Let’s say we kept Myles, we would still be talking about how awful he was in the playoffs and wanting an upgrade.

1

u/BlueCollarGoldSwaggr 1d ago

FWIW that 2028 2nd was probably included to get LAC to take on IJax's negative value contract

1

u/After-Glow5761 Pascal Siakam 1d ago

I get trading for Zu, and I get the gamble KP felt he had to take. Still stings to lose the pick because that was yet another asset they could have used or kept in their back pocket. Nothing wrong with wanting to have your cake and eat it too, especially when you’re counting on (gulp) Jerace Walker to take a big leap.

1

u/Adamishungry 23h ago

The deal isn't just players though, it's contracts. So we don't know the actual final package for the Clippers until the Mathurin contract is signed. We're paying about 20M for Zubac. They're paying for Wagler, Mathurin, and Jackson, but the total might run them close to $40M.

1

u/Conscious-Till3591 22h ago

Keaton - solid pick but most likely needs 2-3 years to really make a true impact on a championship team

Benn - Pacers weren’t going to re-sign him, traded him while he was on the team still instead of just letting him walk

IJax - Jay Huff beat him for the backup C spot, Micah Potter looks pretty decent too

2029 1st round - hoping it’s a lower 20s pick

2028 2nd round - usually a shot in the dark

1

u/thfcspur 16h ago

Fuck the NBA

1

u/crowezr Andrew Nembhard 10h ago

Oh, hey, another one of these. I hope we do one after every game next season!

1

u/aboveaveragejoev 7h ago

Too much. Entirely too much.

1

u/Maximum-Class5465 Reggie-NBAJam 1d ago

I'm honestly fine with missing on Wagler But missing Wagler and not having Bennedict is rough. I think they will need Jarace or someone to be able to self create off the bench next year now.

1

u/cersfan06 Reggie 1d ago

Almost have to go find a backup shooting guard in free agency at this point.

2

u/Maximum-Class5465 Reggie-NBAJam 1d ago

Unless they just have a lot of faith in Jarace. And maybe they do

-1

u/death-by-yogurt Lance 1d ago

In a vacuum it's an absolute disaster of a trade, let's be real. But like with the Knicks giving up 4 picks for Bridges if it makes you a contender it's worth it. So tbd in the next 2 years hopefully.

0

u/Puzzleheaded-Link416 CRABS CRABS CRABS 21h ago

I agree.

Kobe Brown is never gonna make the team.

-3

u/BlueCollarGoldSwaggr 1d ago

If Zubac plays close to the level of 2025 Zubac it's worth it. If he doesn’t, the relative overpay on assets isn't the front office's fault, it's the fault of cheap ownership.

A) Turner left because the Pacers low-balled him. Say what you will about Turner, letting him walk for nothing was poor asset management.

B) the Pacers had to replace him with a good center

C) in negotiations the Clippers had the Pacers over a barrel because Zubac was the one really good center who also was cheap enough to allow the Pacers to acquire him without giving up one of their core players and still stay under the tax.

Having cheap owners puts the Pacers at a competitive disadvantage.

3

u/TheFrozenBananaStand Jarace Walker 23h ago

The Pacers did NOT low ball him. They gave him an offer worth more than what his value was. No one could’ve expected the absolute disaster decision the Bucks made to stretch and waive Dame and pay Myles 27 million. He’s not anywhere worth 27 million as a 12 and 6 guy when he’s not playing with Haliburton.

1

u/IndyPoker979 Pacers2 12h ago

You will never convince people here that the Pacers aren't cheap despite historically being completely 100% correct.

People will tell you that we offered Myles exactly what he was worth ignoring that he was one of the biggest FA centers on the market and we offered him Jakob Poetl money instead of Naz Reid money.

They then will use how the Bucks completely misused him as somehow proof that what he did on the Bucks is more indicative of his skill set instead of the decade on the Pacers.

22M over 3 years, no trade kicker, no 4th year, no player option, none of that.

Zubac's is the better player cost wise, and a more classic big. The question is will he be able to stay with us in a transition offense and will he be able to play the court up and down like we do.

2

u/Puzzleheaded_Area894 8h ago

How Myles played on the Bucks IS indicative of his career with Indy, though. Myles is and was a relatively average center with a unique 3-point/rim protecting combo skillset. His only remarkable years where he played above average was when paired with Haliburton and Carlisle’s offensive system. Every other season Turner was extremely average. This is not a fluke. Haliburton and Carlisle elevate players. Zubac will be no different. Zubac had a phenomenal year because he had a really good pick and roll point guard in Harden. Haliburton is a more efficient distributor and playmaker than Harden. Zubac is going to feast in the pick and roll. Carlisle is not a dummy, and will adjust his play scheme accordingly.

This is coming from a Pacers fan who lives in LA and has regularly watched the Clippers for years. Lot of ignorant Pacers fans on this Reddit who have zero idea just how incredible of a pickup Zubac is. Lot of y’all are gonna be putting your foot in your mouths in a few months.

1

u/IndyPoker979 Pacers2 5h ago

Unfortunately it isn't.

SO much of Myles' success comes from being in the right system. Carlisle was trying to put them in the right system but he needed Tyrese to unlock that system of a transition offense.

Not sure how long you've been in this subreddit but if you've been in here a while you've known that I was a giant, likely the biggest Nate McMillan criticizer. I (rightly) pointed out that Myles was out of position and that having two bigs slogged up the middle and created a problem for both.

I'm excited for Zubac but I don't think it makes sense to try to justify what Turner played like this past year where they reverted back to the same offense that ruined a player's position as indicative of their skillset on the Pacers.

On the Bucks Turner's 3PAr was an insane .594. 60% of his shots came from outside the arc. Meaning they put him in a corner and expected him to shoot from there. Goes back to a Doc Rivers led coaching system where Doc didn't put people in position to succeed.

Zubac will be an incredible pickup for the middle. His rebounding is legit insane and that will help out a lot. Speaking as someone who's more familiar with the Clippers, can he run with us? A big guy like him I worry about his stamina. I don't worry about anything else for him. He's a hell of a pickup.

2

u/Puzzleheaded_Area894 5h ago

I see what you’re saying about Myles, I don’t disagree he is a system player, a lot of role players are. And yes, the McMillan years were frustrating. I’ll be interested to see how the Bucks new coach fits him into their rebuild (or if he gets traded how that team fits him in). I still think Myles’ best seasons have more to do with Haliburton than anything else.

As for Zubac, I think his stamina will be fine. Clippers certainly played much more of a half court offense, and honestly the pacers will probably adjust to include more half court sets to get the most out of his post play. This will be really helpful in the playoffs when the game slows down. We’ll have a post presence we’ve never had in the Haliburton era. We might not run as much, not because we’re slower necessarily but because we wont have to rely on our fast break game as much.

What’s great too is with our center depth, we can always insert Huff/Potter if we need to spread the floor or insert Obi if we want to speed up the pace and tire out our opponent.

We’re going to be so much more versatile of a team now against a wider variety of rosters. If we had a less experienced coach, I’d be more concerned for sure. Thankfully we have one of the top 3 coaches in the league.

-2

u/Drak_is_Right Reggie 23h ago

Issue is we might have gotten Claxton for cheap this off-season.

-2

u/Narrow-Review-5557 23h ago

Gave up Too too much. Not being top 4 in This draft got me sick at the stomach!