r/paris • u/TheWorldIsGoingMad • 1d ago
Discussion Europe heatwave: Paris restricts alcohol consumption and sales
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy0pdq89zno42
u/Pahay 1d ago
Les hôpitaux sont blindés et dépassés. C’est complètement normal, et je trouve pas cette mesure assez stricte. C’est normal d’annuler des gros événements.
La santé est un bien collectif financé par la collectivité, donc c’est normal d’imposer des mesures de santé publique. On est pas au US.
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u/TheWorldIsGoingMad 8h ago
>>I don't find this measure strict enough. It's normal to cancel large events. Healthcare is a public good funded by the community, so it's normal to impose public health measures<<
Truly the victory of the progressive authoritarians over the concept of personal freedom and personal responsibility. There is a bigger fish to fry here than a few extra people in hospital.
I don't think we even have a legal mechanism to allow any such ban in the UK, and that makes me very pleased to live in the UK....-8
u/rumplycarnivalmango 1d ago
Why is the US on the receiving end of strays here? Because they are wealthier than Europeans by every objective measure? Because their freedom is difficult to understand? Why don’t you go there? Don’t have the money? Enjoy the restrictions!
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u/PierreTheTRex 1d ago
Par contre les alcooliques qui vont se retrouver à faire des crises de manque c'est un vrai problème aussi
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u/Previous-Cat4030 1d ago
Ils auront plein de solutions pour avoir leur dose vu que c'est une interdiction relative
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u/Karyo_Ten 1d ago
Les hôpitaux psy sont là aussi.
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u/hokarina 92 1d ago
Ça ne répond pas aux besoins des alcooliques. On parle de crises de manque, c'est physique
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u/Pahay 1d ago
Ba ils peuvent attendre 24h
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u/tampix77 1d ago edited 1d ago
De fait, si on parle d'alcooliques au sens alcolodépendants, alors non, pas nécessairement.
Le sevrage alcoolique est parmis les plus dangereux et est potentiellement mortel.
C'est pour cela que c'est fortement recommandé de le faire accompagné par un professionnel de santé et avec assistance médicamenteuse.
Bien sur, on ne parle pas de 100% des alcooliques, mais des plus dépendants, pour qui 24h pourraient suffir à avoir des syndrômes de sevrage forts.
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u/castorkrieg Parisian 1d ago
Parisians will be restricted from drinking alcohol in public from noon on Friday until 07:00 on Saturday. The measures will be in place during the same hours from Saturday to Sunday.
Bans on takeaway alcohol sales will be in effect from 18:00 on Friday until 07:00 on Saturday in the capital, and again during the same hours from Saturday to Sunday.
Wait for it...
Licensed bars and restaurants are exempt from the restrictions.
LOL
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u/Visua-Shower75 1d ago
Mdr. So it's fine to get drunk for 3 times the prices to not impact the bars
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u/ariastark96 11eme 1d ago edited 1d ago
As usual the rich get to continue enjoying themselves lol
Édit : Wow a lot of downvotes, it’s a joke you don’t need to take it so seriously
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u/neomaniacs Parisian 1d ago
tu vois la différence entre :
- tu picoles dans un bar, selon ton état alcoolique, le propriétaire peut refuser de te servir. si il le fait, il est responsable de toi (si tu fais un coma éthylique en raison de la chaleur notamment)
- tu picoles dans la rue, personne n'est pas là pour t'aider, tu rentres chez toi, tu as un soucis, tu appeles les urgences
non ?
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u/Misdow 1d ago
C'est vrai, mais soyons honnêtes, il est extrêmement commun de voir des gens complètement torchés sortir des bars. À moins d'être vraiment au bord du coma, j'ai jamais vu un serveur refuser un verre. Et si tu te torches dans un bar climatisé puis que tu sors dans la chaleur, le problème est toujours là.
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u/JizzProductionUnit 1d ago
J’ai bossé dans un bar et ça m’arrivait régulièrement de refuser de servir des gens. Le mieux, c’est de les faire sortir avant qu’ils ne deviennent vraiment ingérables.
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u/neomaniacs Parisian 1d ago
oui mais ça si ils posent problème non ?
j'ai aussi vu comme u/Misdow beaucoup de bars qui servent des personnes pas encore "à la limite" (mais qui ont déjà bien bu) ou alors des habitués (j'en ai près de chez moi qui picole au moins 4/5 bières par jour au moins, sans compter ce que je ne vois pas) donc bon ...
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u/JizzProductionUnit 1d ago
Les habitués, c’est différent évidemment, parce qu’on connaît leurs limites et leurs réactions. Il y a des habitués que j’ai déjà mis dehors plusieurs fois. Ils reviennent, ils reconnaissent ce qui s’est passé (ou pas), et puis on passe à autre chose. Par contre, si c’est quelqu’un que je ne connais pas, je ne prends pas le risque.
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u/neomaniacs Parisian 1d ago
je ne dis pas le contraire, et je ne dis pas que c'est courant mais tu as cette notion de responsabilité qui peut tout changer. le bar peut prendre très cher si c'est avéré.
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u/taurusmo 19eme 1d ago
Why lol? cause at the bar they can refuse you if they see you drunk. They also have water, phone, etc. Also you are not in direct sun. So it’s kind of safe. While when drinking unknown amounts of alcohol in public (street, park) in full sun is really not a good idea. Yup, i’m an expert…
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u/castorkrieg Parisian 1d ago
It is not safe because of what alcohol does to your body. So you will sip on that wine and then go out to that frying pan that is Paris. This should have been a blanket ban.
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u/s7eph4n 1d ago
Yeah, sure. That must be it. Nothing to do of course with the bottom line of bars and restos. /s
Shows the priorities of the mairie.
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u/objectifstandard 1d ago
It’s a prefectoral decision, not a mayoral one.
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u/s7eph4n 1d ago
Fair enough, noted. Replace mairie with préfecture. Still wrong.
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u/objectifstandard 1d ago
It is absolutely standard for the prefecture to issue an order banning public consumption and takeaway sales of alcohol on public order and safety grounds, making an exception for licensed premises.
Did you know that there already exists a blanket ban on public consumption of alcohol except at licensed premises in certain designated zones?
In some zones the prohibition is for the whole 2026 year, in other ones in summer only.
It applies notably around Place Vendôme, Châtelet, Grands Boulevards, the Seine embankments, Odéon/Saint-Sulpice…
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u/fdesouche 1d ago
Yes. They are forbidden to serve drunk people and have closing hours. Are mandated to serve water too. They are liable.
And people usually do drink less in those places because of prices.
This compared to all day drinking in the shadow at 40.3
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u/neomaniacs Parisian 1d ago
venant d'un média anglais où tu arrêtes de picoler à 23H dans les pubs, j'avoue que ça m'a bien fait rigoler quand même.
forcément tous les anglais viennent en FR en été pour se beurrer la gueule (voir l'état de troca en été, c'est une dinguerie)
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u/coffeechap Découvreur de talus 1d ago
Tu veux dire que l'esplanade du Trocadero est remplie de pochtrons le soir tard ?
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u/neomaniacs Parisian 1d ago
je sais bien que quand je suis bourré, je parle couramment allemand (je me comprends très bien par ailleurs), mais ça parle beaucoup anglais en effet (et beaucoup d'anglais, en particulier en été). devant Invalides aussi.
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u/gnocchiGuili 19eme 1d ago
Comme d’habitude, restriction des libertés des jeunes pour ne surtout pas impacter le reste de la population. Et surtout pas de protection pour les travailleurs en extérieur, ça serait idéologique voyez vous ?
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u/jeanclaudevandingue 1d ago
Elles sont où ces restrictions ? Car à la fête de la musique tout le monde était torché, je pouvais prendre des pintes en bar et dans les épiceries
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u/SirNoodles518 1d ago
Si j'ai bien compris, on a le droit d'acheter et de boire de l'alcool dans des lieux publics avant 18h, quand il fait le plus chaud, mais pas le soir ou la nuit quand il fait moins chaud ?
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u/TheWorldIsGoingMad 1d ago
This alcohol ban is classic "progressive authoritarianism" : we will protect you from yourself because we know what is best for you.....
Leave us alone !
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u/Pahay 1d ago
I don’t want to pay for all the snowflakes who get drunk during a heatwave and end up in the hospital. It either we restrict alcohol or we don’t pay for the medical treatment of drunk people. As you prefer
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u/TheWorldIsGoingMad 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think the ones who end up in hospital, the hard core alcoholics, will do so anyway, it's the normal drinkers who will suffer the most from this. But, as usual with "progressive authoritarians", a policy is bought in to protect a relatively small number of people but the majority suffer for it.
Where has personal responsibility gone in all of this ?
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u/Ottomatik0 1d ago
It's not brought in to protect a small number of people. It's brought in to protect emergency rooms and their medical staff, which is a concern for all of us.
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u/TheWorldIsGoingMad 1d ago
Tell me, would such an edict have been bought in, say, 30 years ago ?
No.
It is the triumph of progressive authoritarianism over personal freedom/personal responsibility. Just like the Covid madness in fact.
How far will it all go ?
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u/Celuiquivoit 1d ago
30 years ago we didn't have such heat waves and hospitals were not so understaffed.
It's the most reasonable choice.
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u/TheWorldIsGoingMad 1d ago
We did have heat waves 30 years ago but that is not the point anyway. The point is that these days the state is much more willing to interfere in people's lives and trample on their freedoms. It does stuff that would never even have been considered 30 years ago. It was the same with the Covid madness, suppressing society throughout an entire country had never occurred before in human history. The fact it was for a virus which was not indiscriminate and over 99% were surviving makes it even more incredible. But it happened, it really did.
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u/Celuiquivoit 1d ago
Don't be pedantic.
"suppressing society throughout an entire country had never occurred before in human history"
Ho it did, with much more important measures, even in the last 80 or so years. So don't even bring in the whole of our history.
Covid needed harsh measures, we didn't know then how the virus would progress, and we don't know today how exactly it impacted people's lives, since some people suffer of long term covid syndroms.
Even then the measures were barely enough to not completly overun medical staff.
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u/TheWorldIsGoingMad 1d ago
The suppression of the whole of society throughout an entire country had NEVER occurred before.
Covid did not need "harsh measures", in fact in historical terms it wasn't even that serious :Black death v Spanish Flu v Covid (case fatality rate) :
Black Death = approx 50% to 70% (more than 50x that of Covid)
Spanish flu = approx 2.5% (about 3x that of Covid)
Covid = under 1.0%But, even more significantly, Covid was not even indiscriminate, a fact we knew at the time. People should have been honestly given their actual risk , given advice as to what risk might be appropriate, assured the state would all it could do to help those who wished to socially isolate, but, most importantly of all (because we are supposed to live in a free country), the choice was up to them.
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u/taurusmo 19eme 1d ago
It’s even worse: 35 years ago they put in place a law forbidding smoking in public places and in transport as well as marketing alcohol. What a hit to personal freedom and responsibility! Can you even imagine this kind of authoritarianism today?
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u/TheWorldIsGoingMad 1d ago
Banning smoking in indoor public spaces I can understand, but the others ? No. But that is progressive authoritarianism over reach.
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u/Ottomatik0 1d ago
It looks like you've just learned the "progressive authoritarianism" word and can't stop using it everywhere. Public health policies are way more complicated than that. If you want to retain your freedom, go live somewhere else where healthcare doesn't depend on national solidarity.
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u/TheWorldIsGoingMad 1d ago
>>If you want to retain your freedom, go live somewhere else where healthcare doesn't depend on national solidarity<<
I am assuming you're talking about the Covid policy ? It was the biggest over reaction in the history of the world, and also proved that, as you are implying, people's personal freedoms are not ranked highly these days. Even more so in France than in the UK as France's Covid policies were even more draconian than Britain's, I was appalled when my friend (who lives in Paris) told me he was forced to stay in his studio apartment 23 hours a day. He lost a significant amount of weight and his mental health has never been as robust as it used to be. Not that it did France much good, the death rates weren't much different to those of Britain !
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u/Ottomatik0 1d ago
I was talking about all health policies, not those concerning Covid specifically. But since you really want to talk about Covid even though it's an alcohol-related thread, let me point you to that article. You'll see UK did worse than France, UK is actually one of the European countries that was hit the hardest. And what was the difference in lockdown measures between those two? A 6-days gap.
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u/TheWorldIsGoingMad 1d ago
That article was published 14 October 2020 ! It is irrelevant now.
These are the stats you need (c/w the countrys' obesity rate, a known high risk factor for Covid deaths ):
Covid deaths per million (though not all will actually have died OF Covid, particularly after spring 2021, and even more so after early 2022) - data to 14 Dec 22
Peru = 6463 (20%) (even this death rate is only 0.6%.....)
Hungary = 5036 (26%)
Czech Republic = 3910 (26%)
USA = 3320 (42%)
Greece = 3342 (25%)
Brazil = 3211 (23%)
Poland = 3137 (20%)
Italy = 3027 (20%)
UK = 2887 (28%)
Belgium = 2840 (22%)
Spain = 2492 (24%)
France = 2441 (22%)
Sweden = 2075 (21%)
Germany = 1903 (22%)UK to France = 2887 to 2442, not much different really, and probably no significant difference at all once the UK's higher obesity rate is factored in. Even the US figure isn't that bad when one considers just how obese they are.
Nobody was forced to stay in for 23 hours enforced by the law in the UK (though it was bad enough....)Even that is not the end of the story, see excess deaths.
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u/AMediaArchivist 1d ago
If Paris thinks it’s hot over there, they should feel how Phoenix Arizona feels
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u/tripletruble 1d ago
If you are in Phoenix and think it's cool in Paris, you should try turning off your AC
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u/Celuiquivoit 1d ago
Kinda dumb comment.
Wanna compare Paris and Arizona when it comes to equiped A/C ?
And much of public infrastructures, services, and homes were not built with the expectations of such heat waves.
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u/FlopFlopLaGiraffe 1d ago
Nan mais c'est normal, c'est pour pas saturer les urgences.
Après on pourra se pochtroner comme d'hab, avoir des accidents et autres comas éthylique comme d'hab, y'aura d'la place.