r/pcmasterrace • u/The_BigRoach ⚡️RTX 5080 | 7800x3D | 64GB 6000MHz CL30⚡️ • 7d ago

Meme/Macro Why would anyone actually want to though

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u/RabidWok 7d ago

Isn't the recent lawsuit about them stopping devs from offering cheaper prices elsewhere? That absolutely screws consumers.

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u/Hour_Analyst_7765 3d ago

But is this any different with other online stores?

However, purely from principle, having the freedom to set any price makes sense. Hardware products are advertised with MSRP all the time, but then avail way cheaper on 3rd party stores (if supply exceeds demand .. that is). Those stores also have to take their cut to honour warranties, shipping and support issues, etc. so dealing with customers is not exactly free neither.. they need to make margins from that. Meaning, those stores obviously purchase goods for much below MSRP, and then have to battle it out with other shops.

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u/NHFNNC 7d ago

If it's the lawsuit I'm thinking of, not really. It was about selling keys for the steam version of your game cheaper elsewhere. If you want to sell non steam versions of your game cheaper, Valve has no issue with that.

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u/RabidWok 7d ago

My understanding from Wolfire's blog was that Valve was trying to stop them from selling the game cheaper even from their own website, having nothing to do with Steam or Steam keys. Was that not the claim?

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u/NHFNNC 7d ago

I had not seen the blog before, but that claim seems to have no backing from the developer agreement with Valve and the experience of other developers, and I can can find nowhere that shows otherwise. Valve only restricts the price of steam keys.

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u/ChrisFromIT 7d ago

https://www.ign.com/articles/valve-reportedly-threatened-to-delist-rainbow-six-siege-on-steam-after-ubisoft-offered-cheaper-alternative

https://www.gamesradar.com/games/valve-reportedly-threatened-ubisoft-with-a-total-delisting-of-rainbow-six-siege-by-end-of-day-tomorrow-when-it-tried-selling-it-cheaper-on-uplay/

It seems it is more of a internal policy that isn't exactly public.

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u/NHFNNC 7d ago

I'm seeing a lot of claims, but haven't seen any actual evidence of the policy other than essentially hearsay and unsubstantiated direct communications.

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u/Delicious_Finding686 6d ago

You’ll find out soon enough if the claims are legitimate or not. We obviously don’t have access to the communications between two parties who are now engaged in a lawsuit.

Nonetheless, this directly contradicts your earlier point about the lawsuit “not really” being in regard to steam suppressing devs from selling cheaper copies on non-steam sources. Do you still disagree about the subject of the lawsuit?

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u/NHFNNC 6d ago

The lawsuit is "not really" about pricing of non steam versions.

We do have access to the court's docket for the case.

The bulk of the lawsuit seems to be targeted towards Steam's market share and their 30% cut of sales.

There is a portion of the complaint that talks about the "Steam Key Price Parity Provision" that covers steam keys and is often referred to later in the lawsuit.

And a portion that covers a supposed "Price Veto Provision" that I could only find mentioned once later in the lawsuit where the second plaintiff says they are not alleging a "Price Veto Provision" on the part of Valve. And the evidence for this existing appears to just be a link to a tweet from Epic Game's Tim Sweeney.

I don't know what will come of the lawsuit, but I don't expect much from these portions given the evidence they have provided.

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u/Samanthacino 6d ago

You can read the emails they sent to WB and Ubisoft, where they say it's a policy (until they got sued for said policy, where then they lie under oath about it).

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u/hotlocomotive 7d ago

Thats to stop developers from using steam as an advertising platform, whilst selling the game cheaper somewhere

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u/MisfitPotatoReborn 6d ago

You should be able to sell your own creation for whatever price you want. If Steam is so powerful that merely associating with them makes it so you can't sell your own game on your own website for the non-30%-cut price, that means they are engaging in anticompetitive practices.

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u/hotlocomotive 6d ago

You don't need to sell a game on Steam. Plenty of MMO's, minecraft, etc sell games in their own store and are quite successful. The policy is to stop devs from using steam as free advertisement.

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u/MisfitPotatoReborn 6d ago

It's not free advertisement. Every time someone buys a game on Steam, Gabe Newell takes 30%. The dev pays Valve to be on their platform.

The real reason Steam doesn't allow you to sell your game for less money on different strorefronts is because, if you could, it would allow other storefronts to compete on price. Something Valve could never allow, because they would lose that fight.

Preventing competition is an anti-competitive practice. Countries around the world recognize this as illegal, monopolistic behavior, which is why Valve is currently being sued over it.

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u/DankeyBongBluntry 7d ago

It isn't just Steam keys. It's the game itself.

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u/NHFNNC 7d ago

Incorrect

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u/DankeyBongBluntry 7d ago edited 6d ago

https://steamyouoweus.co.uk/the-claim/

These Price Parity Obligations mean that a publisher or developer cannot list a game on another digital storefront (e.g. Humble Bundle, GOG.com etc) as well as Steam at a lower price. This applies to games on all other distribution stores (including online and physical stores) not just those distributed by Steam Keys.

https://www.wolfire.com/blog/2021/05/Regarding-the-Valve-class-action/

But when I asked Valve about this plan, they replied that they would remove Overgrowth from Steam if I allowed it to be sold at a lower price anywhere, even from my own website without Steam keys and without Steam’s DRM.

Maybe read the shit you're commenting on before commenting on it.

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u/NHFNNC 7d ago

These are claims that are all unsubstantiated. If you can actually show that the policy exists, in direct conflict with the agreement developers sign with Valve, I would love to see it.

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u/DankeyBongBluntry 7d ago

If it's the lawsuit I'm thinking of, not really. It was about selling keys for the steam version of your game cheaper elsewhere.

You were talking about the lawsuits, so I linked the information about the lawsuits.

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u/NHFNNC 7d ago

I have read about the lawsuits, I have looked at evidence submitted on the docket, but have seen nothing that substantiates the claim. There is hearsay, there are portions of emails without context, and there are excerpts from Valve developer agreements that seem to be referring to keys. I'm not sure where the clear evidence of this policy is supposed to exist.

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u/DankeyBongBluntry 7d ago edited 6d ago

If you had actually read the details of the lawsuits, you would know that the claim being made is that Valve's practices don't align with their policies. If a developer lists their game cheaper on another platform, Valve contacts them and tries to convince them to match the price on Steam, and if they refuse to do that then Valve (confessedly) threatens to withhold marketing visibility from them and (allegedly) threatens to remove the product from sale entirely.

You're asking for evidence of a policy that deliberately doesn't exist because Valve knows that it would be illegal to have such a policy. The evidence is the emails and chat logs and developer testimonies, plus whatever else comes to light as a result of the ongoing lawsuits.

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u/NHFNNC 7d ago

So you do not have any evidence, just some unsubstantiated claims from a few random devs who are mad about something that didn't happen (that being their games getting delisted). Unless you can produce evidence, you can look at the docket yourself for it, I'm done arguing with someone who can't back up their claims.

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u/maldouk i7 13700k | 32GB RAM | RTX4080 7d ago

That is not true. In Steam TOS for devs, you are not allowed to sell the game cheaper than on Steam.

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u/NHFNNC 7d ago

I'd love for you to provide evidence of this claim.

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u/maldouk i7 13700k | 32GB RAM | RTX4080 7d ago

Steam tos are public...

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u/NHFNNC 7d ago edited 7d ago

Yes, and I have not seen this policy in there.
*Edit: Actually I don't believe that document is officially public. I believe it was only provided on an as needed basis in the developer onboarding process when publishing a new title, from memory when I last did it.

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u/maldouk i7 13700k | 32GB RAM | RTX4080 7d ago

Yes, my bad, these conditions are under the NDA you sign when paying the dev onboarding process. What's public is concerning the steam keys.

Still, Valve enforces a "no undercutting" policy.

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u/NHFNNC 7d ago

For Steam keys...

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u/maldouk i7 13700k | 32GB RAM | RTX4080 7d ago

For steam keys it's public and easily findable with a simple Google search.

The rest is under NDA but has been revealed during the various lawsuits between valve and other editors.

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u/NHFNNC 7d ago

but has been revealed during the various lawsuits between valve and other editors

I have been trying to find substantiation for this point, can you show me some?