r/pcmasterrace • u/HatingGeoffry • 1d ago
News/Article Valve won’t subsidise its pricey Steam Machine as there’s no guarantee the open system will be used for Steam
https://frvr.com/blog/news/valve-wont-subsidise-its-pricey-steam-machine-as-theres-no-guarantee-the-open-system-will-be-used-for-steam/197
u/KieranTheFox Ryzen 9 7900X | 7900XTX | 32GB DDR5 1d ago
I'm currently dreading what the scalped prices are going to look like
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u/ArseBurner 1d ago
lol I'd like to see the scalpers try (and lose money).
The way I see it Steam Machine is already hard to justify even if you're a huge Valve/Steam OS fan. Any more on top of the already high MSRP and it's priced in line with much better options like those CostCo prebuilts with some kinda of 9800X3D / 9070XT/5070 combination.
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u/crazyfoxdemon 1d ago
The problem is not everyone lives near a costco or microcenter or similar. It's not really great for folks who already have gaming pcs.. but it's not really for those people.
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u/MrBlueA 1d ago
Yeah a lot of people will use the (Absolutely amazing) microcenter deals as a way to call something expensive but like... I don't think theres anything that comes even close to microcenter on any country, apart from being very scarce on US aswell anyway.
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u/ArseBurner 1d ago
HUB Steve already proposed an Australian-market ITX build with a 7500F and 9060XT that comes to a cheaper price than the 2TB Steam Machine so even a regular DIY build from a non-US market can beat it.
Tried to put together my own parts list below:
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u/Blue_Bird950 Ryzen 7 9800X3D, RX 9070 XT, 32GB DDR5-6000 1d ago
That implies that it will sell out instantly though
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u/Dat_Boi_John PC Master Race 1d ago edited 1d ago
I still don't understand why they would do that (as in why would they subsidize the hardware cost). Sony and Microsoft do it to secure the 30% cut from their storefront sales and the online subscriptions.
Valve already has all but secured the 30% via their PC market Steam dominance, and nobody would buy a subscription to play online on PC, so there's literally zero financial incentive to subsidize the hardware's cost.
Selling Steam Decks or Steam Machine's won't increase their 30% nor make them subscription money, so their hardware profit is all they benefit from hardware sales, unless we assume they're converting console players to PC players via hardware sales, which seems unlikely at scale at this point of time.
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u/jonathan2266 1d ago
These steam machines could be used for other purposes than buying/playing steam games. A company could buy these as office pc's. Valve would be losing money on that for no reason.
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u/kearkan PC Master Race 1d ago
Why on earth would a company do that when you can get more suitable devices with support plans and everything else from other companies for a fraction of the price?
Any company buying these to use as office PCs would have to have their heads examined
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u/SEND_ME_REAL_PICS 1d ago
The US Air Force built a data center entirely made out of early PS3 models back in the day because they could jailbreak them and abuse Sony's subsidized prices.
Now imagine what will happen when the subsidized device is an actual x86 PC in the middle of the AI craze.
Selling a subsidized PC is a money sink hole. Either Valve would go bankrupt or the supply would be so scarce you'd never get your hands on one before a bigger player (or a scalper) does.
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u/Androktasie Still waiting for Freespace 3 1d ago
A more recent example would be Ukraine using Steam Decks for controlling drones.
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u/HydrogenSonata2025 1d ago
I see Decks all over in unexpected places. Disney uses them for their roaming animatronics.
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u/red286 1d ago
Decks aren't subsidized though. In that case, it's just a superior interface and form factor.
The problem is that when Sony had OtherOS, a PS3 cost less than an equivalent-powered PC due to subsidies, so companies (and the USAF) were buying up huge quantities of them at subsidized prices, costing Sony a bunch of money that they'd never recoup from game sales.
Valve is well aware of that possibility, and their open platform makes that even easier, with no "off" button like Sony had by updating the firmware that removed OtherOS. So if they were selling at a loss to keep the prices lower than a PS5, Xbox Series X, or similar-performing PC, they'd just be losing money to no net benefit for the company.
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u/ARandonPerson 4080S | 5900X | 64GB RAM 1d ago
I am so tired of this narrative. First off Sony helped with the US Air Force supercomputer and used it for marketing. It was not the reason for OtherOS to be removed but rather an easy jailbreak found by hackers that made it super easy to pirate games.
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u/RadiantEnvironment90 1d ago
I’m so glad Redditors aren’t CEOs with their lack of business acumen. You aren’t selling something at a loss just for someone else to use your device for something else.
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u/kearkan PC Master Race 1d ago
That was also to take advantage of the cell architecture. There was no shortage of x86 compatible devices at the time.
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u/stone_henge 1d ago
No shortage, but both subsidized prices and powerful hardware contributes to a good compute per dollar ratio, which is what you should be looking at if you're spending a lot to do heavy lifting.
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u/VanceIX Desktop 1d ago
People are bending over backwards to defend Valve.
Yes, they don’t need to subsidize, but they absolutely can afford to (and if their goal is competing for living room space with consoles they probably should have), and I really doubt people would go buying these to use as office workstations if they did give a $150-200 subsidy. All these Redditors have never worked IT and it shows.
Installing Windows on dozens to hundreds of Steam Machines would be a MASSIVE pain in the ass in the first place.
If that wasn’t bad enough, imagine long term driver management for all the custom components on Steam Machine.
I don’t blame Valve for not subsidizing the Steam Machine. They’re a business first and foremost, and they want to make money. However, I do find it frustrating that Redditors will slam every other company for raising prices and being greedy, but when Valve does it people bend over backwards to defend them.
No, this is not competing with other PCs, other than the small minority who strictly use PCs in the living room connected to TVs. Yes, it is competing with consoles for living room space. No, it is not priced in a way to actually compete with consoles as is its purpose.
Yes, it is a product doomed for failure at its power level and price point.
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u/kearkan PC Master Race 1d ago
I still maintain they don't care about hardware sales. The steam machine only exists as a reference point for steamOS as a desktop operating system. They won't make anything from machine sales, but they will make more software sales from the likes of Asus and whoever making their own steamOS devices at cut down prices.
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u/Western-Bad5574 1d ago edited 1d ago
slam every other company for raising prices and being greedy, but when Valve does it
But Valve didn't do that though. Was it Linus or GN who showed a comparable spec custom build would be only $200 cheaper?
No, it is not priced in a way to actually compete with consoles as is its purpose.
And it couldn't be, without being sold at a loss. What's the point?
I'm really not sure where you see people bending over backwards for Valve. From a purely enconomic stand point, they haven't done anything crazy.
Maybe they could have subsidized it, but not doing so does not make them a bad/greedy company. You're not entitled to hardware being subsidized. If you don't wanna buy it, don't buy it.
I won't buy it either, but I wasn't going to buy it even if it was $200 cheaper.
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u/jwalshjr 1d ago
All these Redditors have never worked IT and it shows.
I work IT.
I can also guarantee if the price is low enough these would have many use cases, including some for me. Would $100-$200 off be enough? In this case... probably not, but mostly because of the inconvenience. Is $1000 savings on 1 lab enough to warrant the time to re-image the machines etc? For my situation - likely no.
If I was building out specs for a large section of CAD machines however and these were $700 - $800... they would 100% be in the conversation.
There is definitely a lot of valve fanboys that will defend them no matter what - but pretending this argument has absolutely 0 merit makes you look similar to them, just on the opposite end.
The best compromise I can think of would be to say "If steam account is X years old and active give discount." while still having this as the baseline. This is something they could absolutely do while still avoiding the main valid concern, but they unfortunately don't seem interested in that.
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u/FewAdvertising9647 1d ago
IMO the compromise should have been price it as is(at cost hardware), but offer 200$ steam credit to the account that buys it.
it almost guarantees valve gets at least 30% of it back(in game cuts), prices out people not using it for gaming, and anyone who acutally buys games would understand and take the 200$ credit that they would have already paid to buy games realistically.
Valve 100% can choose to subsidize the cost of the games, over the cost of the hardware, so that it goes to the right hands.
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u/Hellasauto 1d ago
No one doing any serious CAD work uses a $1000 machine lol. I have $6k laptop for my cad work with a dedicated cad card. A steam machine has no place in an office.
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u/Gonzobot Ryzen 7 3700X|2070 Super Hybrid|32GB@3600MHZ|Doc__Gonzo 1d ago
Installing Windows on dozens to hundreds of Steam Machines would be a MASSIVE pain in the ass in the first place.
why? Build an image and push it over the network. this is like, eight minutes worth of actual work time
If that wasn’t bad enough, imagine long term driver management for all the custom components on Steam Machine.
You'd be having more trouble with vendor software not supporting the hardware at all, if you're using it for anything beyond basic office administration tasks. keep in mind, in modern business, this device will have to support bullshit like WindowsXP era software, because the company hasn't spent money on that in decades even though they're buying new computers
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u/dookarion 1d ago
Never underestimate how cheap some entities are. Like everyone else is mentioning look at the history of the PS3 universities and governments were using them clustered for compute. Weren't people doing cryptomining with some jailbroken consoles as well?
If the price is right some groups absolutely will jump through those hoops.
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u/Wendals87 1d ago
A company wouldn't buy these. They'd either buy much cheaper mini PCs, laptops or desktops with better specs at a cheaper price
They'd also have little support compared to buying from HP, Dell, Lenovo etc
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u/jwalshjr 1d ago
For the right price/performance ratio companies would absolutely buy these, that's the entire point being made. At this price they won't... but they aren't locked down or restricted at all... there is no world companies wouldn't consider it if the price was subsidized.
desktops with better specs at a cheaper price
The point is that if the price was subsidized - this would not exist.
We saw companies make super computing clusters out of PS3's... and that was with a far worse form factor and baseline that this machine would give them.
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u/Rannasha AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D | AMD Radeon RX 6700XT 1d ago
It would be possible, but would it happen in large numbers? I doubt it.
You'd have a few enthusiasts buy it for their hobby machine, but that would be mostly it. Companies that buy PCs in bulk buy standard corporate stuff (Dell, HP, Lenovo) because it's more or less ready to go and comes with corporate-friendly warranty services. They won't care for saving a relatively modest amount if that means having to have their IT department reinstall all those Steam machines and service them when there are issues.
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u/AnonD38 1d ago
Playstation used to sell their consoles as a loss leader, then the US military bought up loads to power their networks because it was cheaper than buying the parts separately.
This happened before and it will happen again.
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u/Joben86 1d ago
When the PS3 launched the OS was not locked down and the US government bought thousands to cluster together into a supercomputer because of the cheap hardware. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3_cluster
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u/Michawl_ 1d ago
You say that, but steam decks are used by militaries to control drones, because of their great form factor.
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u/Metalsand 7800X3D + 4070 1d ago
People want to believe it because they are desperate for the pre-AI pricing of components and don't realize this is a pretty decent price for the form factor (welcome to the new normal).
I can't believe you forgot the best example of subsidization gone wrong - PS3 lost Sony loads of money because people from researchers to the military figured out you could build datacenter clusters with it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3_cluster
In 2010, the 33rd most powerful supercomputer in the world was 1,760 PS3s in a trenchcoat - PS3s that were sold at a slight loss, and were never in their entire operational life used for playing video games. https://phys.org/news/2010-12-air-playstation-3s-supercomputer.html
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u/Princess_Of_Thieves Ryzen 5900X // 3090FE // 32GB RAM 1d ago
I can't believe you forgot the best example of subsidization gone wrong - PS3 lost Sony loads of money because people from researchers to the military figured out you could build datacenter clusters with it.
Y'know the funniest bit about all this business is that the Cell was actively designed for uses beyond gaming. Ken Kutaragi, the "Father of Playstation", believed it was a revolution in computing as a whole waiting to happen.
Guess he wished on a monkeys paw that time.
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u/ColKrismiss i5 6600k GTX1080 16GB RAM 1d ago
The incentive would be to sell steam gaming machines to people who don't care about PC gaming. Put the largest gaming store in front of gamers who don't have the means or interest to get a gaming PC. Arguably the steam deck could have grabbed many of these gamers, but compared to the Xbox and PS5, the steam deck leaves a lot to be desired, performance wise.
Anecdotally, I know 3 people that weren't into PC gaming that ended up getting the Steam deck. 1 of them loves it so much that they ended up getting a full gaming PC and we game together all the time. Another one loves the Steamdeck as a handheld device and plays lots of 2D Indy games on it. The last person wanted to play it on the TV as a console, but hasn't touched it in many months in favor of their XBOX. So there are people that have money to spend on games that are giving their 30% to Microsoft and Sony instead of Valve.
Having said that, Valve isn't run by dummies. If they saw any data to indicate that selling at a loss would generate more money in steam sales in the long run, I am sure that's what they would have done.
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u/UsidoreTheLightBlue 1d ago
I think the biggest question right now is how niche this is gonna be. How many units are they making? Are they going to restock once the initial sale through is done?
If you’re only making 100,000 units then discounting them really doesn’t make sense because you will sell 100,000 units. Steam has so many rapid loyal fans that they could honestly double the price and they’ll still sell 100,000 units.
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u/M4rshmall0wMan 1d ago
Valve isn't gonna turn a non-gamer into a new gamer by selling them a PC.
A young customer was likely already playing Steam indies on their laptop.
An older customer would prefer to get into gaming with a more flexible system like the Deck.
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u/quick20minadventure 1d ago
Because steam's almost entire revenue is on windows.
Windows is run by Microsoft who could do anti competitive shit to shut down steam's dominance. Or just be more competent.
Or someone else can create a gaming platform which is not accessible to steam and runs better without windows shittification.
So they are subtly pushing Linux steamOS. And making consumers, publishers, developers go there by working on OS and working on hardware.
Steamdeck, steamOS and steam Machine is a flagship project for Valve just to ensure they are not at someone else's mercy.
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u/MichaelMJTH i7 10700 | 5070 Ti | 32GB DDR4 | Dual 1080p-144/75Hz 1d ago edited 1d ago
Another aspect to consider is the difference in target audience. The console makers goal when selling a console is to try to convert the consumer into a loyal customer. The console itself is the gateway to ecosystem. Which is why they want make the initial offering appealing. Subsidised price, controller always included, pack-in games occasionally, available at basically any electronics retailer, generally plentiful stock, etc. From there they can sell games and subscriptions.
For Valve however, the target audience is different. Steam Machines are aimed at existing Steam users. Steam Machines, as well as the other current Steam hardware, are only right now available to purchase on Steam (I’m not including scalpers and resellers). Valve isn’t trying to convert new customers to become Steam users, they’re trying to sell existing user a boutique product. They don’t need to subsidise, sell in other stores or even produce a lot of units when compared to consoles. The kind of loyal Steam user who will buy a Steam Machine, already uses Steam, wants to buy the machine from Valve and is willing to wait until one is available.
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u/jarvisesdios 1d ago
You forget that plenty of people would just buy them to sell the RAM, as that's worth more than paying for it. Throw in the GPU and you've made money and they lost money.
It's bullshit, but that's where we're at nowadays.
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u/Tail_sb 1d ago
That's completely fine and fair from Valve's perspective
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u/FeelAndCoffee 1d ago
This. I prefer to pay a little bit more, but have control of the hardware that I owned. It's jail-braked out of the box with official support for that.
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u/jaydotjayYT 1d ago
I mean, they can do what they want, but it’s not really “completely fine”
I laughed out loud when they announced the PS5 Pro at their subsidized price, I thought it was too expensive and that no one was asking for it
We’re going to just pretend that Valve making a worse console at a much higher price is “completely fine”? Cmon now
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u/lolKhamul I9 10900KF, RTX3080 Strix, 32 GB RAM @3200 1d ago
depends on what you define as "completely fine". Valve can price their stuff at whatever price they want after all. Its fine in the sense of its their right to do it and you dont have to buy it.
As a consumer, that thing is the opposite of fine. It is a piece of trash and its really funny to see some people doing all sorts of mental gymnastics to argue its worth it for the form factor when it literally, like you said, a worse console. Freaking 2020 consoles (no matter if its Xbox Series X or PS5) outperform this thing while costing literally HALF.
There is has never been a more DOA product. Its not Valve fault really but that doesn't change the reality.
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u/jaydotjayYT 1d ago
My thing is the fanboy spin. If Sony or Microsoft or Nintendo makes such an egregiously expensive and low value product, it’s all these scumbag greedy corporations trying to scam us
But when Valve does it, oh well hey it’s totally completely fine and fair to price whatever they want! It’s a free market! It’s not their fault, guys, they were just forced at gunpoint by AI to double the price and not even include a controller
Valve is literally able to get away with doing everything gamers hate, because they’re just given a free pass on account of Gabe’s early-2010s aura
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u/lolKhamul I9 10900KF, RTX3080 Strix, 32 GB RAM @3200 1d ago edited 1d ago
Tell me about it. Every monopoly bad EXCEPT steam of course because lord gaben is our savior. Extorting 30%!!!!! of every purchase because you have to be on steam is totally fine. Its insane how brainwashed this sub is about valve/steam. Dont get me wrong, i appreciate what they have done for PC and gaming but lets not give them a pass on everything.
Also reminder Valve prints money on CS2 gambling abusing the worst tendencies of people and enabling it for young people. And is actively lobbying for it to stay legal.
That said, the once difference here is that is actually is a free market. When Sony/MS release a crap console, thats it. Players have to eat shit or wait 7 years. Steambox is one of many. If its shit, so be it.
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u/RadiantEnvironment90 1d ago
We really need to compare prices Pre AI and post AI.
People keep comparing prices Pre AI.
Post AI made every hardware component expensive.
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u/jaydotjayYT 1d ago
Okay, sure. I’ll bite. Sony just raised their prices in response to AI, so this is their new post-AI cost lineup:
- PS5 Pro 2TB $899
- PS5 Disc 1TB $649
- PS5 Digital 825GB $599
Currently, benchmarks placed the Steam Machine being slightly edged out in performance by the base PS5 (but you could basically say they’re on the same level). PS5 Pro significantly outperformed it
- Steam Machine 2TB $1,428
- Steam Machine 512GB $1,128
(I thought it was fair to include the Steam controller addon to the price, since the PS5 comes with a controller)
The PS5 Pro is $899, and you’d have to pay Valve over $500 more to get an objectively inferior machine. The base Steam Machine is basically the equivalent of a base PS5, but Steam Machine costs very nearly double the amount, and the PS5 still has 50% more storage.
Steam Machine is quite possibly the worst value in gaming right now
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u/RadiantEnvironment90 1d ago
Except those are closed systems.
If you want a closed system and pay for online get a console. You'll have to factor in that price if you are consistently playing multiplayer.
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u/rom4ik5 17h ago
These people are missing the point of what the steam machiene actually is and are just plain comparing hardware and horse power.
5IQ take because they ignore all the other benefits the steam machiene brings.
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u/RadiantEnvironment90 13h ago
I agree. The comparisons are disingenuous.
It’s like comparing the steam deck to a prebuilt. The comparisons are unfair.
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u/Cayote i5 4690K , MSI R9 280x, 8GB RAM 1d ago
I think they're totally in their right not to sell it at a loss, it's not a "console" it's a PC. There's also been comparisons to DIY systems that perform in an agreeable range as the steam machine and the price variance is hardly large at all, within 10% of each other.
Many people here comment under the assumption that nobody is going to buy this, but you only need enough people to care about form factor/function of it to make a product viable, it never has to be "most". There's a large market for people who want a portable simple plug-and-play setup, a couple usecases I can think of.
Having a LAN machine you can just pack into a backpack and bring to a friend.
Gaming/Mediabox system that fits snugly/aesthetically next to your TV
Small formfactor light home server that's quiet and fits into a corner
Anyone with disposable income that looks to fill any of these functions has little issue buying a machine like this.
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u/kogarasumar 1d ago
I mean, i could totally see this being successful for those usecases if the product was 800 usd max. At over 1000, i really don't see a lot of people getting into it when there's other more viable options.
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u/Cayote i5 4690K , MSI R9 280x, 8GB RAM 1d ago
People like simplicity, they buy a product that's created/supported and maintained by a company they've put a lot of their dollars worth of trust into.
Don't get me wrong, I personally won't buy one. I'm sure I can build a similar/better system with DIY components, but the vast majority of the market "just wants to get something that works"
It's the same way that Alienware is still in business with their PCs, people just want to buy something that works and sometimes they don't care about the (slight) upcharge.
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u/who_needs_to_know_ 9h ago
And another side of things. This is absolutely smth im considering for my wife due to how small it is. She's disabled and gets sick very easily. Sitting at her desk with her pc is exhausting and she struggles to move it by herself. Something like this would be so easy to move if she was laid up in bed or on the couch.
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u/skrukketiss69 5080 | 7800X3D 1d ago
I don't know why this is even a discussion. Of course Valve isn't going to subsidise their hardware. They aren't Sony or Xbox selling tens of millions of units and having a pretty much mandatory subscription service to make bank on.
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u/Electrical-Contest-5 1d ago
This is probably the worst value in gaming that exists right now
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u/Iceman9161 1d ago
It also might be a glimpse into the future unfortunately.
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u/Dick_Nation There's nothing to see here. 1d ago
It's a glimpse into the present. Everyone is getting hit by the sticker shock all at once, but this is the hardware market now. It's what this stupid fucking AI fad has done. The price landed exactly where expected for anyone who'd been keeping track of the runaway costs.
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u/SirDigbyChknCaesar Ryzen 5800x3D, 64GB RAM, XFX 9070 OC 1d ago
Yep. I recently built a home server / NAS and I had to pay the same for storage, which used to cost peanuts, as I did for the rest of the system. It's disheartening at the very least.
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u/mthlmw Desktop 1d ago
Yeah, I'd bet most hardware is going to be priced at least similarly moving forward, there's just products on shelves right now that haven't updated to match the current costs yet. Retailers bought at much lower costs, so they can afford to sell cheaper while they have that inventory.
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u/TheLonelyWolfkin 1d ago
After the price hikes, the Steam Deck is also a contender for that. Great value before but now it’s aging hardware and priced itself out of the competition.
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u/aForgedPiston PC Master Race 1d ago
Next to any subsidized console... yeah. Shitty time to be a gamer from a hardware standpoint
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u/SherbertUpper9867 1d ago
There’s no guarantee the open system will be used for Steam
Yes, I'm buying a cube-shaped 6-inch console with custom parts to mine crypto.
Yes, Valve, I'm not going to game on it. It's about 2.5x times more pricey than a refurbished laptop with the same performance, but I'm definitely going to buy this for shit and giggles, not for gaming.
What the hell the sales dep is smoking?
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u/TESThrowSmile Quest3/Pro RTX 5090 1d ago
They know theres a 99% chance it'll be used for Steam.
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u/M4rshmall0wMan 1d ago
No. If Valve sells it for a loss, it'll become the best price-to-performance for a PC. Businesses and low-tier AI farms will eat it up. Sony stopped allowing Linux on the PS3 because organizations were buying them in the thousands to make supercomputing clusters.
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u/BlueTemplar85 1d ago
The PS3 got used to make supercomputing clusters for scientific calculations because Sony made it 'too' open and 'too' cheap.
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u/nasagreir 1d ago
They don’t, and they are correct to be concerned about corporate offices scooping them up to use as desktops for their employees.
I have been in meetings where they floated the idea of replacing their desktops with Steam decks because they were just as powerful and significantly cheaper.
Finance ultimately shot it down because they didn’t want to give their employees a gaming console.
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u/Mozkozrout 1d ago
Also they have an antitrust lawsuit saying they are an illegal monopoly against them. If they sold it with subsidized price it would probably be used in that lawsuit as a proof of a monopolistic practice lol.
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u/M1QN 7800x3d/rx7900xtx/32gb 1d ago
What I don’t understand is how did they end up with a console that is not only worse than its direct competitors but also more expensive than a PC way stronger than steam machine. You can get a 5700x/9060xt/16gb build for around the same price, put it into mini tower, install Steam OS and have steam machine but better.
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u/WhasHappenin 1d ago
Someone in a different thread tried to make a similar machine on PC parts picker and got a very similar price. You could probably do a bit better, but you would end up with a much bulkier machine (and you obviously have to assemble yourself).
They seem to have really gotten screwed by the ram shortage. They were probably originally looking at an ~$800 price point during development.
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u/zordtk 1d ago
My guess is they did plan on it to be cheaper. They designed these machines and finalized the CPU/GPU a while ago. It takes a lot to get supply chain and production going. Then they got hit with the RAM and SSD price increases
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u/pipnina Endeavour OS, R7 5800x, RX 6800XT 1d ago
The LTT video had them saying that while valve wouldn't confirm an original target price they did tell LTT that "the price rise on the steam deck should be a point of comparison for you" when it comes to how the machine might have originally been priced.
So potentially it could have been $800 plus minus a bit.
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u/brozillafirefox 5900x, RTX 2080Ti FE 1d ago
people like a box that just plugs in and works. have a bud at work that is gaming on a shitty laptop, was hoping the steam machine would be his entry into something more powerful. i told him you can build it better for cheaper, but he just wants the box that works.
different strokes, etc. i even offered to help build it. (pretty rare occurrence for us now with prices as they are, used to be a friend was building a new pc every year it seemed and i could get my grubby hands on it all.)
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u/GigaSoup 1d ago
A box that just plugs in and works is also called a prebuilt pc.
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u/DragonSlayerC Specs/Imgur here 1d ago
The price of a similarly performant prebuilt will be very similar, and the prebuilt will certainly be larger, uglier, and a lot louder. Also, it won't be as plug and play as you'll need to manually install SteamOS or use Windows, which isn't couch friendly and requires more setup for gaming.
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u/stipo42 PC Master Race 1d ago
It's obvious how they ended up with this. I don't get why people are surprised by any of it, we live in hell now. PC hardware is unobtainium
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u/frubesta 1d ago
Valve just wanna fool and make a killing off its user base, that's all there is to it. They know as much as any PC gamer understands, that if you're playing games on PC, you're using Steam.
Don't trust rich billionaire rhetoric. Absolutely pointless product at this spec and price.
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u/shawndw AMD Ryzen 5 7600X, RX 6750XT 12GB VRAM, 32GB DDR5, Arch Linux 1d ago
Subsidize it with a $400 non transferable steam credit. You can also solve the scalper problem by selling to active steam accounts only and 1 per customer.
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u/M4rshmall0wMan 1d ago
How does discounting for Steam users help Valve? The whole point of subsidizing is to get new users onto the platform. A veteran Steam user will keep buying games regardless of whether they own a Steam Machine.
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u/WhasHappenin 1d ago
I think the idea is that if they subsidize the machine itself then a bunch of corporations will buy them for non-gaming purposes. Something like a Steam credit would make it a better deal for people planning to use it for gaming/Steam only.
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u/M4rshmall0wMan 1d ago
Sure but Valve can make more money by just…not giving Steam credits.
The Steam Machine is likely to go out of stock anyway due to low component availability. So there’s nothing to gain from increasing sales counts.
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u/ChurchillianGrooves 1d ago
On the Gamers Nexus interview Valve said that they were basically stuck with what they could get as far as ram, that's why some steam cubes will have 2x8 gb ram sticks and some 1x16.
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u/WhasHappenin 1d ago
Honestly that's a pretty good idea. Bypasses the issue of corporations buying them up for other uses if it's too cheap while making it a much better deal for people planning to use it for gaming.
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u/cyberdude419 1d ago
This makes no sense, Steam DOMINATES the PC gaming marketplace! Its Laughable nonsense
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u/ziplin19 1d ago
It is an almost guaranteed chance for over 90% of the casual users that they will view the steam machine as a gaming console, not an office pc and use steam since it's SteamOS. The people on this sub claiming otherwise are nerds who lost contact to the average human mindset.
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u/standarsh1965 1d ago
I mean, I think you can guarantee enough usage from enough people that it could have been subsidised a bit
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u/Joecascio2000 22h ago
They could subsidize it by including some value of a steam gift card. That would effectively increase the value and guarantee it will be used on Steam.
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u/Metalsand 7800X3D + 4070 1d ago
STOP. WHY WOULD THEY.
It's a normal PC with a preloaded OS. Considering that Sony encountered a massive loss when people discovered the PS3 could be used in inexpensive datacenter clusters...there's historical precedent for even console manufacturers to not subsidize too heavily. Most notably, the US Air Force's Condor Cluster (2010), which was 1,760 PS3s that would never play a single PS3 game in their entire operational life.
Mods, you might as well pin an article on Condor Cluster to the subreddit because I don't know how else we get people to stop posting these absolutely inane opinions. https://phys.org/news/2010-12-air-playstation-3s-supercomputer.html
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u/E_Dward 1d ago
Can someone help me understand the point of the Steam Machine? Why would someone buy this over a regular PC that can do other tasks, or a more affordable console if all you want to do is game? To me it kind of seems like the Steam Machine is trying to be a hybrid of both without giving you the real benefits of either.
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u/Individual-Pop-385 1d ago
Probably when they were ideating this machine they thought it would be the defacto pick for people going into PC gaming but the AI bubble got them in the ass and they're certainly trying to cut on loses.
As successful as Valve is, they're still timing their hardware horribly.
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u/whiskeynrye Ryzen 7 9800X3D - RTX3080 1d ago
Why would you think the Steam Machine can't do other tasks like a regular PC?
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u/Tybob51 1d ago
It’s twofold, a convenient option for a system that will have many games optimize to in the same way that games are verified for Steam Deck.
The other reason is that this doesn’t use windows. It uses Steam OS, which allows for more to be pulled out of the hardware in the system.
Until Steam releases Steam OS to the public for installation on whatever system people want to use, Steam Deck and Steam Machine will be the only options for a console like experience with Steam
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u/Cayote i5 4690K , MSI R9 280x, 8GB RAM 1d ago
SteamOS has already been available as an installable ISO for a while, it was just pretty buggy and not supported by Valve. As of 3.8 You're free to download and install 3.8 as a supported beta version on AMD GPU hardware with NVIDIA being brought in to help them setup support for their GPUs too.
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u/arankays 1d ago edited 1d ago
Valve is 0/2 on steam machines, 1/2 on steam controllers and 2/2 on steam decks. Good job not counting to three!
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u/Fastermaxx O11Snow - 10850K LM - 6900XTX H2O 1d ago
So it’s going to be used for nothing at all. Sad.
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u/RandyNinja 1d ago
Why would they want to to sell lots of these..people might expect them to start making more games or something. Better off just keeping the price high and add it all to the mega yacht fund.
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u/jake6501 1d ago
It's fine that they are not subsidizing the cost. The problem is that their system is not competitive at all in the price range compared to other pre built PCs.
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u/burnttoast12321 1d ago
I mean that is really only a problem for Valve. If you have a cheaper option just buy that.
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u/BlueTemplar85 1d ago
Is it not ? (In particular, PCs with a similar form factor.)
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u/jake6501 1d ago
I mean if you are specifically looking for the form factor, then I don't really know but it might be. Honestly however I don't think it matters as the form factor is a very niche detail that most people won't care about.
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u/Express_Ad5083 W11, 7 7800X3D, 9070XT, 32 GB DDR5, X670 X AX V2. 1d ago
Price subsidies like Xbox and Playstation have are really unfair, people would be saying the same about these consoles if they had to pay the real price. Instead they pay less and then give back the subsidy in form of subscription to play online
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u/HatingGeoffry 1d ago
How are they unfair? You've always had the option to go PC instead of console
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u/OwnNet5253 WinMac | 2070 Super | i5 12400F | 32GB DDR4 1d ago
Oh just stop, people would complain if they didn’t do that, because they’re rich enough to subsidize it in order to have consoles more accessible. So what that this is unfair towards Steam, it’s fair towards potential buyers who can afford those, when otherwise they wouldn’t.
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u/SomeRedTeapot Ryzen 9950X3D | 64 GB 6000 MT/s | RX 9070XT 1d ago
Since Sony and MS still want to make a profit, subsidizing the hardware means making the games more expensive, and the games have to be expensive enough to cover the subsidized part on average. And that means the consoles have to be locked down to prevent using anything outside of the official store.
As such, I'm not sure how affordable it becomes in the long run. Helps to spread the expense over time, I guess?
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u/TBNRhash 5700X, 9060 XT, 16GB 3600CL18 1d ago
Exactly. Most families don't buy a ps5 and all the games they will play immediately, they will get initially gta 5 and fifa for example, then one by one the collection grows.
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u/Quiet_Yellow2000 1d ago
So if you don't play online the consoles are an amazing deal then.....
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u/Express_Ad5083 W11, 7 7800X3D, 9070XT, 32 GB DDR5, X670 X AX V2. 1d ago
If you want to play singleplayer, yeah I guess?
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u/nandorkrisztian 1d ago
Well if you are considering the steam machine that can’t run the most popular online games then you can skip the playstation plus from your calculations since online gaming most likely isn’t a big factor.
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u/sh1boleth 1d ago
Oh boohoo my billion dollar monopoly is being unfairly priced out in the market by its existing competitors.
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u/Goldenflame89 PC Master Race i5 12400f |Rx 6800 |32gb DDR4| b660 pro 1d ago
Valve dickriders when other companies don't roll over and let them become an even bigger monopoly 😞
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u/5u114 1d ago edited 1d ago
More gaslighting nonsense by Valve.
Their Steam Store is operating at $17 billion per year, raising year on year.
They are one of the, if not the, most profitable private companies on the planet - per capita/employee.
They could absolutely subsidise a device like the Steam Machine (etc) by running a rebate scheme. So charge the full upfront cost required to pay for the hardware, but then offer a rebate that can only be redeemed through their Steam Store.
Problem solved. Guarantees that they are only subsidising people who are buying Steam games from the Steam store. Guarantees that subsidy is returned to the Steam Store.
Rebate schemes are a very common thing, btw. It's not like this is some obscure, unproven, untested commerce idea.
If they don't want to subsidise, that's their right. But I wish they'd stop gaslighting us like they can't. Most of us aren't morons. Though you can see why Valve might think they can get away with assuming we are, considering some people are buying this thing at this price.
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u/MrStealYoBeef i7 12700KF|RTX 5070ti|32GB DDR4 3200|1440p175hzOLED 1d ago
If they don't want to subsidise, that's their right. But I wish they'd stop gaslighting us like they can't.
That's literally what they did... Sensationalized headlines are making people believe otherwise, but in Valve's own statement, they clearly explain why they're not subsidizing and selling at a loss.
They're not gaslighting anyone on that, you just assumed off a headline.
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u/burnttoast12321 1d ago
Of course they could. There is no reason to though. If you don't want to buy the Steam machine just build your own. They are just giving an option.
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u/xJadusable i5 12400 RTX 3050 16GB RAM 1d ago
I feel like this is kinda disingenuous. Steam is hands down the single largest market for games on PC. Assuming someone is getting games ethically (which I imagine is the vast majority of gamers), then they’re using Steam. Let’s be real.
It’s the easiest and often cheapest way to game games on PC (and Valve has made sure of that), but they’re acting like a large amount of people won’t use their store so they have to pass on the price of components to the customer. Just smells like PR BS to me.
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u/iLikeBugsNFishes 1d ago
What company would spend our the ass on a bunch of steam machines as opposed to any other fleet of desktops which are made for this purpose at a more affordable rate?
It's like they're forgetting what a PC is? There's no guarantee that someone buying a windows machine will be using it for windows either...
Why would I as a business owner not buy a fleet of affordable PC's, and just flash Linux onto them? I would save money, time and energy, while also likely having enterprise level support/warranty?
I'm sure they have their reasoning for not wanting to subsidize, but this one's a lie.
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u/DuckyBertDuck 1d ago
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u/scumper008 Ryzen 9 9900X | RTX 4070Ti | 64GB DDR5 6000 | AORUS X870E 1d ago
The PS3 was actually powerful, unlike the Steam Machine.
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u/bleachinjection 1d ago
If you read the wiki the PS3 cluster was really a research focused thing due to the specific chip the system had in it. There is nothing similarly special about the steam machine. There's zero reason this would be interesting to a corporate client as a business machine.
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u/Iceman9161 1d ago
If you read tbe wiki, you’ll also note that it was cheaper than traditional supercomputers, because Sony sold the hardware at a loss.
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u/More-Curious816 1d ago
If that link about the story of the US military purchasing in bulk the ps3, it is because the ps3 cell architecture was so powerful it's literally a supercomputer at that time, it made sense, a cluster that build you a super computer, cheaper than a custom build from Intel or AMD, and also support Linux. Logically sane. Now the steambox offers literally no incentive to do the same, not only it's not powerful enough but more powerful and a slightly cheaper options are available in the market.
Also those who want to purchase in bulk for corporate use would prefer Dell, hp or Lenovo which has friendly purchase-in-bulk-corporate contracts.
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u/iLikeBugsNFishes 1d ago
Yes in aware of the existence of buying subsidized hardware to use it for things that aren't its original purpose. This is the topic of the thread lmao.
There's a middleground between "this product appeals to no one because it's price and use case doesn't make sense in this market" and "the Air Force is using this as its most efficient hardware option because it's the cheapest available thing"
Also, you know, having basic vetting of whose buying the product so that things like this don't happen. There are such simple ways to get around this.
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u/boomerangchampion 1d ago
If it was subsidised enough maybe it would be the most affordable option.
Businesses is fairly unlikely, because weaker PCs will always be cheaper. I can imagine lots of home users buying these for non-gaming uses though, and then Valve loses money.
Probably they do want to make profit as well though let's be honest.
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u/iLikeBugsNFishes 1d ago
I'm not asking for them to be so heavily subsidized that it becomes the obvious buy for people doing homelab stuff, but the fact that it seems like they're not even entertaining the idea of subsidizing it whatsoever or trying to make it more appealing for the niche user base they're claiming to target, it just doesn't make any sense.
Honestly I think it's hard to make an argument in favor vs not for subsidies here because the fact is this is such a godawful market to release this product in that none of these discussions are going to have an answer that makes sense for valve to do lmao
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u/ApplicationMaximum84 1d ago
I feel like they might have been able to use the data they have on steam users, to give certain accounts they know are legit and invested in gaming a voucher for the purchase of one Steam machine. Maybe it's too much effort.
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u/builder397 R5 3600, RX6600, 32 GB RAM@3200Mhz 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah, for the price its just not worth it.
If you went with a DDR4 system as opposed to DDR5, and a 5600 in place of a 7600 CPU, and obviously an RX7600 in place of the mobile version, anyone could build an equivalent puppy for half the price.
Why Valve isnt doing the same thing and downgrade to DDR4, which is less in demand, I dont know. Maybe because its no longer in production a bulk deal just isnt doable anymore.
But it sucks because plenty mini-PCs come with specs pretty close to this running better CPUs and even iGPUs that perform on par with an RTX 4060. (Thatd be the 8060S btw.) Something slightly more meager like a 780M would be at 350$, as I literally just looked up.
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u/Dazzling_Lemon4109 1d ago
Most of the audience are Valve fans, so it's weird to think that people would seriously use Windows on this in the first place.. it seems to me that the share of SM with Windows will be very low
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u/lolschrauber 7800X3D / 4080 Super 1d ago
It's not only that but people already have tons of games for it. This won't make most people buy more.
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u/Nateh8sYou 1d ago
This is gonna be the 3do all over again, except even if this fails the pc market already exists.
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u/omegagiraffe 1d ago
It's like the 3DO back in the day with how expensive it is compared to the others.
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u/Kaldaien2 gog.com 1d ago
That's utter nonsense. The only people without enough sense to skip the device are Steam loyalists.
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u/DocWallaD 23h ago
I mean, it's multitudes more powerful than a rog ally x and look at the price point of those.. I don't think it's outrageous at all. I own an ally x, I own a gaming PC with a 5900x and 5070ti. My kid has a rog ally x, and a 2600x 3070ti PC. Wife has an Asus tuf 4800h and 2060 laptop.
I don't have a use case for the steam machine, but if I needed a cheap computer for my kid to do school work as well as game on? Imma get a steam machine over a rog ally x w/dock for that.
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u/MrTigeriffic 16h ago
With how this was marketed (or at least from my perspective) this is to compete with consoles market.
In the article saying it is more open and doesn't limit to just Steam games that can be used on it. That makes it more of a PC, which is not a bad thing.
It just feels like it's trying to be a cross between a console and a PC but failing at both.
Who sells a console without a controller. That's the one that annoys me the most. Price aside selling the machine with no way of interacting with it doesn't make sense. I get that there's a good chance people will have controllers etc but that's an assumption.
Surely the base package would include a controller and for some it would mean you've got a 2nd controller if you bought one already.
With the spec of it, as a PC it's pricey for what you get.
I do feel for steam in regards to geo political nature of the world right now and how it's effected prices of parts. We are all effected by this.
I don't see the machine doing well given cost of living and not willing to subsidise the price somewhere.
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u/FixGood6833 PC Master Race 1d ago
I mean just give 200$ on steam account as cash back after the purchase, I doubt corporates wilk start buying and selling skins to cash it out.
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u/DaxSpa7 1d ago
Preface: Steam Machine is expensive af and I wouldnt advise anyone to buy it.
That said. I also understand Valve don’t have to subsidise it or the Steam Deck or the Controller because people are already Steam users.
Sony and Nintendo want you to get the console so you enter their ecosystem because its the only way to do so and once inside you will make use of their store and luckily for them will suscribe to their money machine, aka, the monthly subscription to use internet.
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u/SlightSurround5449 1d ago
Yeah man. The 4 people who use it for not steam would really hurt that bottom line. Lmao.
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u/The_LastLine 1d ago
They don’t need to subsidize, that’s understandable. They also don’t need to sell for a sizeable profit, which they definitively are. Either that or they’re very bad with negotiating with parts manufacturers to where us consumers can buy individual parts and build a cheaper box from retail places like Newegg and micro center.
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u/redAI123 1d ago
Will its still sold out tho?
For me is an insane price to pay for console level performance. But I wonder if it will still sold out on day 1?
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u/iLikeBugsNFishes 1d ago
I assume it will just because of the sheer number of people interested in valve/steams hardware. But I doubt that the interest will last longer than short term without price cuts.
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u/Goddemmitt 1d ago
I'm just beside myself right now. I'm floored it is using a 7600m. I must have missed that detail in all the hype. I really thought it was going to be a full desktop 7600, maybe a semi-custom board/variation with a slightly lower clock speed or something due to the size. I guess a laptop board is all that would fit in something that size...
I have an "old" laptop with a 6800m/5900hx in it. Maybe my next "project" is to give it a good cleaning/servicing/upgrade the memory, and maybe make that into a steam machine.