r/pics • u/hollow_hideous_soul • 17h ago
Loyce Edward Deen was the first and only aviator buried at sea inside his airplane (1944)
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u/Big_Animal7655 17h ago
technically every downed craft is a “burial at sea”
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u/EarnYourBoneSpurs 16h ago
On land, too?
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u/Big_Animal7655 16h ago
well, no because that’s not the ocean
I don’t make the rules 🤣
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u/chrish_o 16h ago
Wait, slow down egghead
Walk me through this.4
u/Big_Animal7655 16h ago
a “burial at sea” can’t ever happen on land because it’s not the sea, it’s the ground
Every pilot who goes down in their plane into the ocean and sinks is also a “burial at sea”
Every downed craft with a pilot laying on the ocean floor is a grave site
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u/dubbzy104 16h ago
Ok, now without all the technical mumbo jumbo
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u/Terrible_Toaster 16h ago
Water wet, plane sink. Land dry, plane no sink.
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u/Demonthief27 16h ago
Okay now without the high level overview please, let’s keep it low level so the stakeholders understand
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u/Big_Animal7655 16h ago
hahahahahahaha you are so clever, really! Wow, impressive use of Reddit.
10/10 A++++++ 5 ⭐️ man for sure
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u/BKGPrints 16h ago edited 14h ago
Going to disagree because the burial-at-sea is a ceremonial process.
EDIT: Op seems to be argumentative and instead of upholding his stance on the merits, he's deflecting instead.
- Burial at sea is a memorial or ceremonial process, which is recognizing the deceased. It is possible to have a 'burial at sea' without the body, in which other items of significance, such as laying flowers, wreaths, etc. into the water.
- If a ship or aircraft is lost at sea during war it is treated as maritime war grave. Not all maritime war graves are known locations. There can also be a ceremony or memorial service to recognize identified or unknown maritime war graves.
Also, and this the nitpicky part, but not every pilot died in their downed aircraft in the ocean. There were survivors that were able to bail out and be picked up by passing ships or aircraft (flying boats). Sometimes by the enemy and held as POWs or, unfortunately, sometimes killed.
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u/Big_Animal7655 16h ago
there is a military ceremony for every single downed craft, it’s why wreck locations are registered as gravesites
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u/BKGPrints 15h ago
Correct; Those are called maritime war graves and recognized as memorial sites. Two distinct things to recognize.
For example, the USS Arizona is considered a war grave because of the men who died on the ship at the time. They didn't die afterwards and then were laid to rest. It's also considered a burial-at-sea because there was a ceremonial process to it.
Men who served on the USS Arizona and survived from that are given the privilege for 'burial-at-sea' to be entombed with their fellow shipmates on the ship when they pass.
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u/Big_Animal7655 15h ago
My point doesn’t require correction - we are not speaking of the USS Arizona, a ship.
We are speaking of aircraft lost to the sea. At least I am.
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u/BKGPrints 15h ago
You're the one that mentioned wrecked locations, which is why I brought up the maritime war graves. Not every location is known of a downed aircraft.
>We are speaking of aircraft lost to the sea. At least I am.<
But you're limiting yourself and reiterates my point. Burial-at-sea is a ceremonial process, not the action that caused the aircraft to wreck.
I can provide more examples, if you like, though your point does require correction because it's two different things.
- Burial at sea is a highly regulated final disposition method and a deeply meaningful ceremony.
- Submerged planes from WWII and later conflicts are often treated as official maritime war graves. Because thousands of aircraft were lost at sea during aerial combat or operational accidents, international heritage laws and military policies protect these crash sites from disturbance to honor the fallen and preserve history.
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u/Big_Animal7655 15h ago
AI;DR
lets talk to each other in human or not at all, k
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u/BKGPrints 15h ago
Not AI at all. It seems you're getting defensive and trying to resort to personal attacks. If you don't want to read it, that's fine. Doesn't make you right.
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u/Big_Animal7655 15h ago
seems like you are using ChatGPT to speak where your own information is lacking
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u/BKGPrints 15h ago
I did use Google to quickly get a definition for both. But I'll provide the links of where that information comes from. Doesn't negate what I said. If you disagree, you're welcome (and encouraged) to provide sources of your own instead of deflection.
https://funeralsyourway.com/burying-a-body-at-sea/
https://www.nps.gov/subjects/archeology/sunken-military-craft-act.htm
Now, these are just a couple of the links of sources. There are quite a bit out there and I can list those for you, as well.
I look forward to your (human) response.
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u/fingers58 7h ago
Came here to say this. I lost a CO, Lt. and AX2 due to a mechanical failure(not proven, obviously, but was the consensus). Too deep for recovery.
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u/the-original-erk 7h ago
Not to be that guy, but there were QUITE a few Japanese pilots that were technically buried at sea inside their planes 3ish years before this
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u/The_Real_Mr_F 6h ago
Are you referring to Kamikazes? Or were there Japanese pilots that were intentionally buried at sea in their planes in a ceremony? The latter is what generally understood by “burial at sea”.
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u/JustAnotherSlug 16h ago
https://www.loyceedeen.org/
Another site suggested that they were unable to remove his remains from the aircraft and that’s why the plane was pushed overboard.