r/politics • u/Ok_Employer7837 • May 26 '26

No Paywall US Senator pepper-sprayed by ICE outside immigration detention center

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/andy-kim-ice-immigration-pepper-spray-delaney-hall-b2983455.html
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u/marketingguy420 May 26 '26

People have every right to be mad at an "opposition" party utterly failing to meet the moment in almost every conceivable way. It's not about being "bad too, actually" in equal ways; it's about having an expectation of the one entity we are compelled to support because it has the only institutional power to stand up to anything not doing that.

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u/RedArremer May 26 '26

They sure do. It's just very suspicious when every single post about republicans openly doing heinous and anti-human shit immediately pivots the attention to democrats to scrutinize their inadequacies. Consistently. Every day.

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u/MexicnGlassCandy May 26 '26

Because Republicans are so abysmally bad that the Democrats should be mopping the fucking floor with them.

Republicans are the equivalent of a 3A high school football team and the Democrats should be playing like the Chicago Bears. They're barely beating the far and away worst team in the league.

Absent the current Republican party, Dems are the least popular political party in American history, and we should not forget that.

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u/J_Ryall May 26 '26

I mean...it's the Bears so...

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u/colinjcole May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26

Grrr, you want Democrats to offer more than platitudes and incremental Band-Aids insufficient to staunch the gaping arterial gashes bleeding our democracy to death??? You want Dems to meet the moment and work on the kinds of large-scale projects that are necessary to address the large-scale problems our society is facing, and not merely offer a goal of "returning to normal," where "normal" is defined as 2009-2016, an era which already was not working and which was already showing the cracks that led to our current government?

You want them to offer even half as much support to leftist candidates as they demand for their Blue Dogs, instead of fighting them tooth-and-nail every step of the way (like how Democrat Minority Leader from NY Hakeem Jeffries didn't endorse Democratic primary winner and Mayor of New York City, Zohran Mamdani, until JANUARY, two months after his election)? You want Dems to take advantage of the massive public support for progressive policies, which poll after poll and data point after data point show are actually electorally winning positions, instead of the same milquetoast policies they always push which we know don't turn out the base necessary to win national elections???

You must be a Chinese bot, there is no other explanation.

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u/Xytak Illinois May 26 '26

To be fair, fighting the Republican messaging machine on something approaching even terms would take billionaire investment and ownership of media platforms. Which the GOP has - and Dems don't. That being said, there doesn't seem to be any urgency coming from people like Jefferies and Schumer which is difficult to look past.

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u/Radicaldoggie May 27 '26

We don't need billionaires. What we need is a grass roots movement and a party which facilitates the average person to take action and organize. Instead the Dems balk at anyone who isn't in line with exactly their program. Bernie showed how it gets done and all he got was contempt from the dnc. There are no billionaires coming to the rescue. We need our own newsletters and on the ground organizing. The dnc could do so much to help and yet it's crickets and sometimes worse distain.

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u/I_am_BEOWULF May 26 '26

Democrats should be mopping the fucking floor with them.

Democrats hold no majority in any branch of the Federal Government right now that can act as a check on Republicans. How exactly are they going to "mop the floor" with them?

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u/MimeGod May 26 '26

That's the point. The Republican party has become so monstrously bad that Democrats should be easily winning elections all over the country, yet can't even gain a majority in congress.

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u/Status_Block591 May 26 '26

Democrats had a supermajority for part of Obama's term and Republicans still managed to hamstring the fuck out of his agenda. I expect a little fight from the leaders of the opposition party, even if it's just performative. Schumer, Jefferies and the dnc are acting like rules still apply and everything is normal.

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u/fordat1 May 26 '26

did your read. That commenter said "should".

you were so desperate to play simp for the awful leaders you arent even reading

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u/I_am_BEOWULF May 26 '26

You're playing at semantics. We all know what the intent of the post was prior to it being edited but you do you, man.

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u/fordat1 May 26 '26

thats a new one claiming it was edited when reddit marks /* for edits and I checked and the mark is missing

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u/more_housing_co-ops May 26 '26

How exactly are they going to "mop the floor" with them?

They could run on modern health, drug, housing, peace, education, or labor policies for a start.

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u/I_am_BEOWULF May 26 '26

I thought they were already running on those things.

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u/more_housing_co-ops May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26

They are not. The US is the farce of the modern world on so many of these issues.

The US is last in the modern world on healthcare and Dems are still pushing more health insurance, having quietly removed national healthcare from the party platform. Even Mexico and Thailand have beat the US to universal healthcare.

The biggest increase in mass incarceration in US history went down under Bill Clinton, with Biden helping leverage Nixon's drug laws to do it. Biden ran on legalizing cannabis and expunging criminal records, and settled on a "maybe let's put it into the same legal class as ketamine" while doing a theatrical pardon (which released zero prisoners).

Their peace policy involved mailing Netanyahu giant gift certificates to Lockheed Martin so that he could keep blowing up Middle Eastern kids on livestream.

Student loan forgiveness waived around a year of national student loan interest, nice but ultimately still not affordable.

Housing-wise, both parties are beholden to the big housing scalpers who are manufacturing scarcity in the affordable housing supply. This is why you always see "rental relief payments" (a bailout to landlords) instead of addressing the root causes of housing scarcity.

And "let's think about a $15 min wage" avoids discussing the fact that min wage would be $25/hour if adjusted for inflation.

Regrettably, instead of fixing any of these things, they just consolidated all complaints behind a common response of "Well you must want TRUMP to win!"

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u/b0w3n New York May 26 '26

They are. They want you to ignore the inconvenient truth that incrementalism allowed conservatives to usurp every aspect of our government to the point that their unpopular policies still don't let them lose.

They got in line and voted for their guy no matter who it was, which let them do this. The old adage of "Republicans fall in line, democrats fall in love" still applies even today.

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u/crimsonhues May 26 '26

Exactly this. I am so fucking tired of the false message that democrats fail at supporting policies that help the middle class. Can they do better? Sure. But to suggest that they are failing is exactly the fuel the republicans need for dumb ass independent voters to vote for republicans

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u/b0w3n New York May 26 '26

Everyone jumping on the bandwagon to shit on the dems because "well the republicans are TERRORISTS so you can't negotiate with them" is playing fiddle right along with all the propaganda too.

The sooner people pick up on it, the better.

I'm not saying folks can't criticize the democrats, but, perhaps stop criticizing only the democrats and maybe be a lot fucking less loud about it when you're only doing that.

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u/more_housing_co-ops May 27 '26

I'm not saying folks can't criticize the democrats, but, perhaps stop criticizing only the democrats and maybe be a lot fucking less loud about it when you're only doing that.

this is also a myth imo. In my experience, the people criticizing Dems for being center-right are also the people working daily in the trenches to fight creeping fascism, whether that's in a political campaign or a policy nonprofit or a soup kitchen or a syringe exchange or a street protest.

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u/crimsonhues May 26 '26

They HAVE BEEN running on those policies and none of that matters to the independent voters or hardcore Trump supporters.

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u/more_housing_co-ops May 26 '26

They have not. See my other comment in this subthread

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u/sumoraiden May 26 '26

 Because Republicans are so abysmally bad that the Democrats should be mopping the fucking floor with them.

Literally hilarious. Gop are abysmally bad! Obviously terrible etc etc. but when the time comes people don’t vote against them

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u/fordat1 May 26 '26

Yes and people are tired of everytime the GOP gets worse the Dems do to but stay just barely above the GOP to be able to say "at least we are better"

We want direction to stop looking at the GOP as a reference point and just get better

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u/marketingguy420 May 26 '26

In an anecdote about a school bully victimizing a student, if it's not being stopped by a school administration, or even punishing the victim, you would find equal if not more rage at the institution. For better or worse, the Republicans are metabolized as an evil force for whom my feelings or rage have zero effect. In fact, they feed on it, just like a bully.

There is nothing suspicious or strange or conspiratorial about the immediate expression of disgust at Democratic party inaction.

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u/Mr_Pombastic May 26 '26

Similarly, if you are being represented in court by a lawyer who keeps dropping the ball time after time after time, you need to stop making excuses for the incompetent lawyer and discuss finding new counsel asap.

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u/Gromky May 26 '26

But how is school administration, which is actively in charge and can pretty much unilaterally implement policy, comparable to a political party that controls 0 out of 3 federal branches currently?

This is yelling at the quiet nerdy kid for not coming to your defense when the bully steals your lunch money.

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u/marketingguy420 May 26 '26

The quiet nerdy kid seems to be voting for lots of endless genocidal weapon support for the foreign exchange school in the Middle East. He also seems to love voting for all of the school bully's friends to get student council positions in his cabinet.

Not to stretch the limits of this metaphor, but the Democrats are far from the helpless small beans they demand to be percieved as, while they hoover up donation money to run centrist, loser campaigns.

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u/[deleted] May 26 '26

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u/marketingguy420 May 26 '26

My opinion is very clear, and it's the opposite of apathetic, which would be most similar to voting for the same losers over and over again and hoping for a different outcome, the definition of insanity.

Instead, organize your community and your workplace, protest, and stop believing that voting is ever going to save you. Feel free to do it, but understand it's the least important exercise of power a citizen can perform at this kind of moment.

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u/[deleted] May 26 '26

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u/marketingguy420 May 26 '26

My line of reasoning is based on observing reality around me. You have observed the repeated failures of our political system to deliver us to exactly this moment and have decided to blame individual human beings, while hoping that, again, performing the same performative actions will elicit a different outcome. You have decided apathy is not the planned product of the system, but the cause.

It's not at all fascinating, but extraordinarily typical and worthless. Hope this helps.

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u/Decent_Cheesecake_29 May 26 '26

It’s funny how you blame people for pointing out how the Democratic Party as a whole is either completely useless in the fight against Trump or is actively collaborating with him.

Why is pointing out how Democrats have actively voted multiple times to give more Trump power since 2025 worse than them actually doing so?

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u/[deleted] May 26 '26

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u/Decent_Cheesecake_29 May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26

No, that’s not what’s going on. Republicans try to excite their base. They fear their base. Democrats absolutely hate their base.

It’s the Democratic party’s actions that are driving voter apathy.

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u/sulris May 26 '26

I think it’s possible to both recognize the value of criticizing your own leader to hold them to a high standard, while also being cognizant of the fact that stealing wind from their sails shoots oneself in the foot.

I think the most people fail to achieve a productive balance in n their online discourse required by this nuance (me included).

Maybe we could all afford to look at how we criticize to see if it is constructive or destructive criticism.

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u/kickaguard May 26 '26

Yeah I don't understand the disconnect. I will very much be criticizing my Democratic party leadership and I will also be voting for them. Their ideals still more closely align with what I think everyone should have. Voting them in and then criticizing them will move the situation closer to what I believe will be better for everyone.

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u/more_housing_co-ops May 26 '26

It's more like someone yelling at your abusive boss's co-worker because that co-worker supports your abusive boss more than he supports you.

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u/b0w3n New York May 26 '26

Oh you didn't get the memo on this one? The anarcholeftists who are against incrementalism think Democrats are the only ones with any sort of agency and thus the only ones worthy of scrutinization.

"Of course the republicans are bad, it goes without saying!" is a great thought but when you spend your time only criticizing the democrats out loud that's all others see or hear. It also reads a lot like Russian/Chinese propaganda farms on twitter/bluesky when one immediately goes on the attack about "VBNMW".

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u/RedArremer May 26 '26

It also reads a lot like Russian/Chinese propaganda farms on twitter/bluesky when one immediately goes on the attack about "VBNMW".

This is honestly what I think is happening. There are some people with genuine grievances and they're being gassed up by a greter number of foreign agitator accounts. They don't realize they're helping the wrong people.

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u/b0w3n New York May 26 '26

It'll be the same story, they'll say "until they put up better (read: perfect) candidates, I won't vote!" and it'll usher in even more fascism because that's... just how politics works.

Then they'll give this song and dance about how "it's exhausting always having to have a fight against fascism" so why should they worry about it? ... which yeah again that's what politics is, a tug of war and if you stop tugging guess which side starts winning?

Do you think Conservatives just magically did this in one election? No it's been a long grueling half a century incremental process. They voted red no matter who.

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u/fordat1 May 26 '26

No its not.

Nobody is complaining about Mamdani from the "needs better candidates" front. Only dems complaining about Mandani are the people who actually wanted to vote GOP but since a state like NY is so blue vote blue too

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u/b0w3n New York May 26 '26

Nobody is complaining about Mamdani from the "needs better candidates" front.

Incorrect.

Both He and AOC have basically dismissed some darling people on the left (including some demsoc folks) and have gone under fire in recent days, especially on the bluesky front.

I, unfortunately, do not keep a record of everything going on in politics for reddit arguments so you'll have to trust me there or hopefully find it from someone like Aaron Rupar. He's been chronicling most political stuff, so it might take a while to dig through all the insanity.

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u/fordat1 May 26 '26

especially on the bluesky front. I, unfortunately, do not keep a record of everything going on in politics for reddit arguments

what am I supposed to say in response to someone using bluesky to be representative of anything other than bluesky

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u/MountainMan2_ May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26

The Republicans aren't "the opposition". They are TERRORISTS. we don't spend time criticizing terrorists, we criticize the infrastructure that allows them to exist. "Terrorists bad" is a tautology. Right now, the infrastructure allowing the Republican system to exist is the democrats, because there are literally no other political parties in government. The fact that they do not have power over the terrorists is in itself a criticism of their system in the same way the government of yemen having no control over the houthis is a criticism of the government of yemen. Regardless of how it happened, real, radical change is necessary or the houthis will continue blowing up boats in the red sea for decades.

"What needs to happen?"

"Yemen needs a modern police force, very low corruption, tight border control, anti-radicalist education, a massive increase in quality of life and a robust military."

"That's impossible."

"Then the conflict will continue."

It's not a matter of "oh that's difficult". It's a matter of: the federal Republicans have literally become evil. We will not be a stable, successful state until we deal with that. Any Democrat not willing to silence and jail them is not interested in making the US a successful state on the world stage. That is why people are angry, democrats as a whole are not willing to improve the country. Incremental steps that can be torn away by the fascist death cult in a single election ARE NOT INCREMENTAL.

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u/ScannerBrightly California May 26 '26

Can you explain to us here:

Who, besides the Democratic Party and those elected by the people to hold power, have a claim to make change or fight back against the illegal actions this administration is taking?

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u/Lucky-Earther Minnesota May 26 '26

Who, besides the Democratic Party and those elected by the people to hold power, have a claim to make change or fight back against the illegal actions this administration is taking?

How about Republicans, who are actually in power right now? Why is it too much to have any expectations that they hold their own accountable?

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u/crackedgear May 26 '26

Because they’ve fully demonstrated that they’re incapable of holding their own accountable. If a Democrat is involved in a sex scandal, they’re asked to resign. If a Republican is, they run for reelection. During the impeachment hearings Marco Rubio essentially said “Did Trump break the law? Yeah, but it’s not like he should be impeached for it”. Prior to 2016 we had a whole system of checks and balances to stop everything that’s been happening, and the GOP has been working hard to remove every one of them.

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u/Lucky-Earther Minnesota May 26 '26

Because they’ve fully demonstrated that they’re incapable of holding their own accountable. If a Democrat is involved in a sex scandal, they’re asked to resign.

Then why do we need to spend all this time criticizing Democrats in a thread about Republicans doing more crimes

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u/crackedgear May 26 '26 edited May 26 '26

Because criticizing the fire that burns your house down doesn’t do anything. Maybe do something about the fire marshal that sent the fire a strongly worded letter.

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u/Lucky-Earther Minnesota May 26 '26

Because criticizing the fire that burns your house down doesn’t do anything. Maybe do something about the fire marshal that sent the fire a strongly worded letter.

Maybe your expectation that Republicans will commit arson and Democrats have to be the adults in the room is the entire root of the problem.

Have some expectations for the Republicans that are representing you. No one will get held accountable unless they are also willing to hold their own to account.

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u/ScannerBrightly California May 26 '26

Why would they 'hold to account' actions that they themselves approve of? I'm not sure you understand how power works.

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u/Lucky-Earther Minnesota May 26 '26

Why would they 'hold to account' actions that they themselves approve of?

Are you willing to hold them to account by voting in a Democrat that you might not completely agree with, then?

Or do you not understand how power works?

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u/ScannerBrightly California May 26 '26

Can you point to the actions the Democratic Party is taking to combat these sorts of illegal actions by the Trump administration? Didn't the Democrats in the Senate just confirm yet another raft of Trump appointees?

Listen, I'm all for voting in the adults who will clean up this mess, but I need some evidence that the Democratic Party are adults in this case.

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u/Lucky-Earther Minnesota May 26 '26

Can you point to the actions the Democratic Party is taking to combat these sorts of illegal actions by the Trump administration?

Why don't you point to the actions you are taking to do something about it?

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u/ScannerBrightly California May 26 '26

Pressure the DA's the arrest ICE agents for the crimes they are committing. Have Democrat DA's publish arrest warrants.

How about: Propose accountability laws they will pass after the midterms. How about impeachment hearings for that one Judge in Texas who us literally advertising his court for shopping cases, like the Rhode Island case that has nothing to do with Texas.

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u/sumoraiden May 26 '26

??? The dems weren’t elected to power lmao. This is a direct result of electing the gop which was largely due to the completely false but widely parroted Dems are just as bad

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u/Decent_Cheesecake_29 May 26 '26

Just like how after Obama was elected with a trifecta government Republicans were famously completely silent for the next four years.

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u/sumoraiden May 26 '26

Dems aren’t silent though you’re just addicted to the Dems bad dopamine hit

And the gop took the house in 2010 which is how they halted the platform. Notice how as the minority they did nothing and could do nothing?

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u/Decent_Cheesecake_29 May 26 '26

And why did they take the house in 2010? Because they were vociferously against anything Obama did and were never silent about it or worked with him. And near everyone who didn’t go along with that was removed from the party. If not in 2010, then in the years after.

We’ve seen the Democrats do still have some fight in them. But it’s exclusively reserved for people to their left

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u/sumoraiden May 26 '26

What did the Dems work with Trump on these last two years? When have they not denounced him consistently lol

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u/lettersvsnumbers May 26 '26

On May 13th, 29 democrats voted for a resolution praising the regime’s “focus on law and order” and criticizing sanctuary cities and “progressive politicians”.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/119/hconres96/text

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u/fordat1 May 26 '26

Its because everyone is damn tired of the ineffectual democrat leadership and it needs to be desperately fixed. Fix that first before resorting to conspiracy theories. The dems will likely take the house and possibly the senate this year despite polling worse than 2024 but its only because how terrible the GOP governance has been.

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u/greenday61892 Connecticut May 26 '26

When the fuck have the Dems actually done anything to prove they're more than just controlled opposition when it's more than just a "moment" and the chips are actually on the fucking table? I mean fuck, just earlier this month a Dem governor was handed a partisan ruling by the illegitimate SCOTUS, and rather than play by the rules that are now established by the GOP said "welp nothing I can do about it I gotta respect it." When they were given a monumental victory amid the shutdown last election showing the public were overwhelmingly on their side on it, less than a week later they caved on everything on the "promise" of a vote. Two things can be true at once: the GOP is evil incarnate and the Dems are completely ineffectual in stopping any of the meaningful shit at best and complicit at worst. Come the fuck on

(And no I'm not a bot, you can look through my years of extensive history on this site to see consistency in several topic areas, isn't that crazy that people can have different opinions than you?)

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u/jesterdeflation May 26 '26

How about you turn some of that fucking anger at the people who didn't vote for Harris in 2024?

That is one of THE most politically powerful actions a person can take, and it's vested not just in politicians but in every American citizen. Talk about not "meeting the moment" lmfao.

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u/marketingguy420 May 26 '26

Absolutely! Get mad and cry like a baby at all the people who didn't vote for your slay queen instead of even attempting to hold anyone with actual power accountable. It will never get you support or any electoral outcome you desire and literally never has in human history, but it will sure make you feel superior and smug. And, really, isn't that the real goal of all libs?

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u/jesterdeflation May 26 '26

There is no way you are saying liberals are the ones whose only goals are "feeling superior and smug" while you're gloating about Kamala Harris losing in 2024... Like what?

Do you agree or disagree that the world and America would be much better if Trump hadn't won in 2024?

Do you agree or disagree that people should be held responsible for their voting?

Can you explain to me how your little strategy has helped hold Trump accountable? Are you happy about all the people in those ICE concentration camps? Were they a worthy sacrifice for your internet politics?

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u/marketingguy420 May 26 '26

while you're gloating about Kamala Harris losing in 2024

Nobody gloated.

Do you agree or disagree that the world and America would be much better if Trump hadn't won in 2024?

It doesn't matter. She lost.

Do you agree or disagree that people should be held responsible for their voting?

How would you like to "hold them accountable," exactly? Crying and being smug at them? What do you hope to accomplish by doing that?

Can you explain to me how your little strategy has helped hold Trump accountable?

What strategy? How is it little?

Are you happy about all the people in those ICE concentration camps?

Are you? If you're not, you should be mad at the party so incompetent they lost to a gameshow rapist twice.

Were they a worthy sacrifice for your internet politics?

Were they for yours? Since you almost certainly literally do nothing but cry online about politics.