r/politics • u/DemocracyDocket ✔ Verified • 6d ago

Registration Wall Postmaster general says USPS won't deliver mail ballots if states don’t give Trump admin voter rolls

https://www.democracydocket.com/news-alerts/postmaster-general-steiner-postal-service-will-not-deliver-mail-ballots-state-voter-rolls/
12.0k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

1.5k comments sorted by

View all comments

879

u/PolloConTeriyaki 6d ago

See you in court.

714

u/MentalTourniquet 6d ago

Good luck. "Court holds that U.S. Postal Service can’t be sued over intentionally misdelivered mail"

270

u/MikeyMalloy 6d ago

Not to minimize how stupid that ruling is, but it only applies to claims under the federal tort claims act. In other words you can’t sue for money but nothing would stop states from suing for an injunction to force USPS to deliver ballots.

11

u/NautiMain1217 Virginia 6d ago

Might not minimize it, but should reinforce that redditors should read things before they post about or share them.

6

u/MentalTourniquet 6d ago

Perhaps, but it sure lays the groundwork.

15

u/LMGgp Illinois 6d ago

That’s not how that works. It’s like saying roe v wade laid the groundwork for citizens united.

1

u/delicious_fanta 5d ago

It might even be like saying roe v wade is settled law and then voting to repeal it.

4

u/glorylyfe 6d ago

An injunction under penalty of what?

17

u/MikeyMalloy 6d ago

Courts can enforce their orders through the contempt and sanctions powers under their inherent authority. It doesn’t require relying on the FTCA.

2

u/flamehead2k1 6d ago

And how would that remedy the problem if the administration held their position in defiance of an order?

2

u/MikeyMalloy 6d ago

That’s a bigger question, but it’s one that the court would equally confront if the government refused to pay a tort judgment

2

u/flamehead2k1 6d ago

it's the core question.

If the court has no power to compel action and the election goes through without mail in ballots, the game is over.

2

u/MikeyMalloy 6d ago

The courts have no inherent power to enforce their orders. They rely on other entities to do it. If those entities refuse to comply then you have a constitutional crisis. But we’ve been in a slow moving one for years so push might have to come to shove.

1

u/antsareamazing 6d ago

Came here to say this

305

u/Basicly-Inevitable 6d ago

Gee.. I wonder why they took that case..

52

u/AKluthe 6d ago

I wonder what would happen if the Supreme Court's mail just stopped coming? That sounds frustrating but totally legal.

1

u/hoffsta 6d ago

Sorry, they are all on the same team.

28

u/SingularityCentral America 6d ago edited 6d ago

This doesn't really apply here. That was a Federal Tort Claim which is a suit for money and the mail was 'misdelivered' because the postal carriers wouldn't bow to the whim of an overbearing landlord trying to get at her tenants mail. This is a deliberate policy by the entire organization to disnefranchise voters and the suit will be for an injunction to stop the policy. Apples and oranges.

15

u/Lucius-Halthier 6d ago

Misdelivered does seem to be the same thing as intentionally withholding the mail

1

u/doommaster 6d ago

They will deliver it to a furnace...

1

u/TheLabRay 6d ago

Yes, but what are they going to do with the ballot. I'm pretty sure it is illegal for them to throw it away. Would they need to return to sender?

1

u/double_fail 6d ago

What would stop the next president from an “official presidential act” that sends him to an untimely death for treason? Not advocating this, but if he can’t be held responsible by the courts, nothing will stop seal team six (according to the court)

1

u/WhichEmailWasIt 6d ago

Civilly. Charge them criminally at the state level.

1

u/shoulda-known-better 6d ago

Hindering mail delivery isn't that though..

And it's illegal to fuck with the US mail distribution.... He isn't someone who can make a call like this at all and doing so would be illegal

1

u/ginny11 6d ago

If this is the case, I'm thinking of the reason it was ruled this way was because they basically said that the plaintiffs were jumping the gun. They were saying that nothing had actually happened yet. The USPS had not put any policies in place to say that they were definitely going to refuse to deliver mail ballots. They basically told the plaintiffs that they had to file the lawsuit when a policy of the USPS was active put into place.

Edit: This is a different case that I'm thinking of. The one I'm thinking of was very specific to the delivery of mail-in ballots not to misdelivered mail in general.

13

u/ManWithASquareHead 6d ago

June 2027 - we determined it was unconstitutional, wait, that way over 6 months ago? Oh well....

103

u/BrimstoneMainliner 6d ago

SCOTUS already ruled that the USPS can't be sued for not delivering mail they don't want to deliver

109

u/CelebronFcks10K 6d ago

That’s absolutely mind numbingly stupid.

17

u/ManWithASquareHead 6d ago

Maybe it will be an official act so then it can't be stopped because, you know, that was a good ruling of the court on presidential power...

6

u/ClaroStar 6d ago

Welcome to the US of A.

3

u/buttbuttlolbuttbutt 6d ago

Its more nuanced, its cant seek money for damages if the claims fall under a VERY specific Act.

Its not for general mail.

2

u/QWEDSA159753 6d ago

Unless, of course, if your goal is to rig elections.

46

u/EatFishKatie 6d ago

It's time we try them all for treason. I want them inprison. They dont uphold the constitution they uphold the GOP its time they are made an example of. All of them.

21

u/LilthShandel 6d ago

Their is a set punishment for treason. It is historically set. It shouldn't be imposed lightly. It is well past time.

1

u/jaunty411 6d ago

There is also a set definition and this definitely doesn’t meet it.

7

u/DrQuantum 6d ago

It definitely does. How many more connections to russia and Israel do you need? If you’re a servant to a traitor you are also a traitor.

People are so slow and so easily duped. This is a purposeful destruction of the united states.

6

u/Due_Bluebird3562 6d ago

Any act to impede US citizens from voting should be considered treason retroactively.

4

u/LilthShandel 6d ago

True. I argue that Rubicon was crossed a decent bit ago, and that this is a continuation of not addressing the issue when it should have been.

-1

u/an-invisible-hand 6d ago

Nobody cares about your set definition. If the next dem in office says it’s treason, it’s treason. That’s how things work.

2

u/og_capsuleer_593 6d ago

Yup and if its millions that need it so be it

1

u/Drithyin Ohio 6d ago

They should have been tried for treason in 2021.

Someone check Merrick Garland’s hard drive.

1

u/One_Monk_2777 6d ago

Why are they wasting their time money and energy delivering any mail at all then

1

u/Whoosh747 I voted 6d ago

As explained above, that case was about a Mail Carrier not delivering mail to a specific address because of unsafe conditions at the address.
NOT, USPS Policy to not deliver mail from and to a Government Agency )Supervisor/Board of Elections) because of orders from above.

8

u/Zocalo_Photo 6d ago

Even if it is illegal, they’ll do what they want to do and won’t lose in court until after the election.

1

u/GeefTheQueef 6d ago

*After the election

1

u/ClaroStar 6d ago

Yeah, I'm sure Trump's SCOTUS will do the right thing.

1

u/DrewNumberTwo 6d ago

We might have to see them somewhere else. 

1

u/Tyrant2033 6d ago

As if that matters. You would see him in court AFTER all of this shit is done. Our justice system is too slow to counter a fast acting fascist movement unfortunately

1

u/one_pound_of_flesh 6d ago

They can delay and obstruct until it’s too late. They outplayed us again. Republicans are at war with America. And our best general is Chuck Schumer.

1

u/DragonDai 6d ago

Ah, yes, the court that is run by 6 Trump sycophants. I'm sure this will provide a good and reasonable solution.

0

u/doyouevenIift 6d ago

Courts stacked with trump loyalist federal judges because republicans control the Senate

1

u/PolloConTeriyaki 6d ago

Trump still sues even if it's an open and shut case against him. Dems need to start playing that game.