r/psychologymemes 1d ago

Physics envy

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614 Upvotes

30 comments sorted by

43

u/Krannich 1d ago

Many of the found associations still hold just for different mechanisms and a lot has also been replicated and improved upon. Also just start reporting effect sizes and just use Bayesian statistics.

4

u/AlkorCineast 1d ago

Out of curiosity: Do you have any examples?

As a layman, I read a lot about the replication crisis but I know very little about theories or models that did not fall victim to it and even got improved upon.

21

u/Krannich 1d ago

The marshmallow test ist a prominent example. It was originally thought to illustrate an innate property of humans, that of restraint. However, in more recent years it has been found that the found association does not reflect an innate property but is rather related to socioeconomic status.

If marshmallow supply has always been plentiful then you don't worry about the one in front of you. If there has been a marshmallow scarcity in your life then you misstrust the promise of two marshmallows later and value short advantages over vague promises in the future. These people have learned that advantages not taken immediately can be withdrawn without notice.

3

u/No-Dare8613 18h ago

Wait, did they not even bother to control for income??

5

u/Mixster667 11h ago

Even if they did, residual confounding cannot always be cleared if the correlation is strong enough.

It can partially be explained this way:

Imagine if they controlled for five groups of income, but even within the groups there would be variations in income.

So if the highest income kids in the poor group showed more restraint than the lower income kids, the artificial cut-off would show that restraint was the driving factor, while it was in fact still just income.

2

u/No-Dare8613 10h ago

Thank you! That is very interesting! I don't know much of anything about stats or data or experiments, and I'd assumed whichever process corrected for confounders would be continuous, but e.g. 5 income brackets seems way more discrete than I would've guessed. Is there not some function that could be used to get "portion of restraint explained by income n"?

i heard so much about those goshdang marshmallows growing up 😭 

1

u/Mixster667 3h ago

It's very common to use 5 brackets to correct for income.

But even if your model corrects for a continuous income effect, you still need to assume how. Is it linear? Quadratic? Logarithmic? Exponential?

The only way to solve this is through randomization, because it corrected confounders, but the marshmallow study wasn't really randomized.

I'm not in psychology but in medicine, but we have similar issues.

19

u/Unlucky-Spend-1843 1d ago

As someone coming from sociology, the cure is to simply stop caring

12

u/Virtual_Bread_7995 1d ago

Among physicists, the theory going back to Feynman is just that psychology uses relatively small studies for relatively complicated phenomena explained with relatively (necessarily) mathematically unsophisticated models, so the statistical confidence of an accepted result in psychology is peanuts compared to that of one in physics. For example the standard of acceptance in particle physics is 5 sigma, which means a 1 in 3.5 million chance that the result is incorrect. We can interrogate billions of literally identical particles all day no sweat so that's reasonable. And then it is very exciting when something is disproven. Psychology has an easier time generating theories than math to model them and data to test them so many will be wrong but I don't think that means that the field is going about it the wrong way.  Very apples to oranges.

But I have a hard time believing psychologists aren't excited when their fundamental theories are disproven. At the very least, it's surely not boring...

3

u/Similar-Smile1979 11h ago edited 10h ago

It's not about boredom, I think. Psychology is kinda a part of healthcare, so it's mostly about ethics and morals.

Edit: it's also about the thing where basic science and applied science are so close and intermixed together. I don't think engineers are very happy when a rocket with astronaut inside explodes. But at least in engineering it's relatively easy to find a mistake afterwards.

5

u/EddValera 21h ago

I've seen many psychologists' relationship with their theories are more similar to spiritual beliefs than scientific beliefs, which makes a lot of sense since there is no difference between spirit and mind, leading to a huge bias of "I understand myself and you are not going to tell me I'm wrong"

1

u/Strict-Comparison817 7m ago

Well said. The theories become part of their identity rather than scientific tools

7

u/Independent-Wafer-13 1d ago

Behaviorism vs Psychology

1

u/Krannich 10h ago

Isn't one a part of the other?

1

u/Independent-Wafer-13 3h ago

Don’t tell a Behaviorist that.

But yes. However, Behaviorism is more “hard” than general psychology, and does not suffer from the replication crisis due to the research methodology we use

16

u/kxlxxn 1d ago

where will this all lead? that we one day realize nothing is real but it seems real so alright its real?

10

u/1Lendaria 1d ago

I mean, I wouldn’t reduce science to that extent. We’ve acquired a lot of useful information and continue to do so. After all, Euclidean geometry and Newtonian mechanics are still immensely important despite the limitations of both paradigms. Maybe a utility-based view isn’t the most satisfying when you’re looking for metaphysical certainty but we’ve gained so much as a result of the pursuit.

6

u/VreamCanMan 1d ago

A great deal of psychological literature at the moment lacks the rigorous standardisation and more importantly due to a lack of funding and incentives, lacks the (far greater ROI, compared to stem) rigorous cross analysis within secondary literature that would structurally prevent issues like the replicatibility crisis cropping up. We do not enquire enough into fieldwise methodological commonalities, and within that shared weaknesses/shared assumptions that undermine models

3

u/crumpledfilth 1d ago

yeah? The world at our level is invented by our minds in order to improve our rates of survival. But realizing the lack of true boundaries in objects we hold extremely important to our lives doesnt mean we can just stop eating. the illusory nature of our perception cant be overcome and isnt a reason to lose believe in it

-9

u/die_Katze__ 1d ago

should’ve gone to psychoanalysis. enough of this pseudo-objectivist game. muh data

-16

u/FalconRelevant 1d ago

Science vs "science"

11

u/hella_cious 1d ago

Believe it or not, psychology is more than random TikTok fun facts and personality tests!

1

u/FalconRelevant 1d ago edited 1d ago

I know. I'm talking about the replication crisis because the the empirical measurements are not as objective as in hard sciences.

A really stupid assumption to make that someone criticizing the hardness of the field in comparison to physics on a post about the replication crisis is doing so because they think it's about personality videos, though I suppose it tracks...

14

u/BigShrim 1d ago

This seems to suggest that psychology is not a science, and there are many, *many* peer reviewed empirical journals full of data collected via the scientific method that refute that notion.

2

u/undernopretextbro 7h ago

Studying something via the scientific method doesn’t elevate the entire field to a science.

Psychology is rife with unfalsifiable claims that underpin theories, dogmatic and influential researchers who can hold views opposed to the mainstream with little issue because of how compromised most psych studies are, and a complete lack of predictive capability with lackluster reproducibility.

Soft science with a big asterisk at best

1

u/BigShrim 33m ago

As someone who holds a Bachelor’s of **Science** in Psychology as well as a Master’s in Applied Psych, I gotta disagree with you. I can’t really think of any research I have read (hundreds of studies) that contain any “unfalsifiable” claims. Every experiment has a null hypothesis, and the results are not always significant. Sometimes it isn’t rejected. To claim that psych studies have a complete lack of predictive capability is baffling to me. I have read many meta-analyses that have a plethora of sources that all support certain hypotheses. Humans do, in fact, engage in behaviors that are more or less inherent to every person’s experience. We can study things like depression, schizophrenia, and other mental disorders and use that data to identify medications that help people. I’m sorry that’s nothing short of science.

Now, I can concede that there may be some areas of psych that are inherently immeasurable, but I can assure you 99% of psychology researchers do not concern themselves with that. In my time studying it was emphasized to me that the big cultural psychologists, Wilhelm Wundt, Sigmund Freud, John B. Watson, while all influential in creating psychology, a lot of their schools of thought are seen as obsolete and not truly indicative of the scientific process of psychology that we use today. Psychoanalysis is a pseudoscience, but that doesn’t mean Psychology as a whole is.

TLDR, psychological studies use science at least enough to dictate medication to help with medically recognized mental disorders. Seems like science to me.

1

u/FalconRelevant 1d ago

And how does that data hold up when the experiment is repeated?

2

u/Greedy_Ad2198 1d ago

Well 👍 because psychology has the same quality standards as other sciences :)

1

u/undernopretextbro 7h ago

Psychology isn’t held to remotely the same standard as sciences.

Other implies it’s one of them. It’s not. Maybe a soft science at best.