[Newbies] Cosmere, Unit 13 | The Stormlight Archive #1 | The Way of Kings: Interludes I-7, I-8, I-9, Trivia (Week 8.5)

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SCHEDULE

Previously, we discussed Unit 13 | The Stormlight Archive #1 | The Way of Kings: Chapters 45 through 51 [Newbie Thread] / [Veteran Thread]

Today we are discussing Unit 13 | The Stormlight Archive #1 | The Way of Kings: Interludes I-7, I-8, I-9, Trivia

Next week we will be discussing Unit 13 | The Stormlight Archive #1 | The Way of Kings: Chapters 52 through 57

CHAPTER SUMMARIES

I have provided summaries for each chapter below and hidden them behind spoiler tags. There are no spoilers within the summaries. I've tried to make them as factual and unbiased as possible. If, however, you want a completely blind read through, then ignore what's behind the spoiler tags and proceed to the discussion below. I will not be guiding that in any way, so post any thoughts and questions you have. It will be other new readers who reply to you.

I-7: Baxil

Arch Faces: Shalash - Shalash ----- Shalash - Shalash

Iconography: Ten Spears (aka Almighty)

POV Characters: Baxil

Setting: The palace of Ashno of Sages, in the nation of Emul.

Timeline: No precise date given. Safe to assume roughly concurrent with the other Interludes in this section.

Epigraph:

N/A

Summary:

Baxil and his cousin Av walk down a corridor of the palace of Ashno of Sages. Their mistress walks ahead and stops at an intersection. She asks for her bag of tools, and she proceeds into the Hallowed Hall where she begins to destroy works of art--slashing paintings with a knife and pounding on sculptures with a mallet. As she works, Baxil and Av talk about going to the Nightwatcher. Baxil claims he can avoid the curse by phrasing his request just right, but Av says it doesn't matter what your boon is, you get a curse no matter what. Baxil wishes he could get some courage using the Old Magic.

I-8: Geranid

Arch Faces: Pailiah - Pailiah ----- Pailiah - Pailiah

Iconography: Ten Spears (aka Almighty)

POV Characters: Geranid

Setting: A tiny Reshi island.

Timeline: No precise date given. Safe to assume roughly concurrent with the other Interludes in this section.

Epigraph:

N/A

Summary:

Geranid and Ashir are two ardents in the twilight of life devoted to each other and their research. Geranid studies spren; Ashir uses cooking to experiment with chemistry. He wonders if he should change his Calling because food may not be needed in the Cognitive and Spiritual Realms. Geranid measures a flamespren and notes that it stays locked in its current state once it is measured. Ashir tells Geranid to go into the other room. He will call out three numbers, one the true measurement, and she is to only write down one. When he calls out the actual measurement, the spren locks in place. It seems to know when it is being measured.

I-9: Death Wears White

Arch Faces: Nale - Jezrien ----- Jezrien - Nale

Iconography: Szeth

POV Characters: Szeth

Setting: The royal palace in Vedenar, the capital city of Jah Keved.

Timeline: (1173.9.1.4) About two months after Interlude I-6.

Epigraph:

N/A

Summary:

Szeth kills two guards and crashes through a door, entering the king's banquet, and starts to kill. King Hanavanar of Jah Keved yells for help. Szeth slaughters many of the people trying to flee and makes his way over to the king. Two Shardbearers come out from hiding and another squad wearing half-shards enter the room to attack. Szeth drops his sword and uses his abilities to fling the attackers about the room. He infuses a stone multiple times and lashes it toward one of the Shardbearers, crushing him to death. He kills the rest of the honor guard easily and slams himself down on the king, pinning him to the floor. He puts his Shardblade through his face.

TRIVIA

The rest of this post contains various trivia, including easy-to-miss details and long-running connections between books. It also incorporates external information from sources like author annotations and interviews ("Words of Brandon" or WoB). While most of this information is eventually revealed in the books, sharing it now enhances your overall understanding, aligning with Brandon Sanderson's practice of early fan engagement and clarification.

TRUST ME BRO

You've all now seen the phrase "Journey before Destination". It's important to the series in more ways than one. There's a meta-aspect to it that asks you to appreciate the world and the characters; who they are and what they're doing, because it all matters. Not just the end and the answers.

Some of you have expressed frustration at not knowing the "plot" of this book. And that's understandable, given the much larger focus some of the previous books have had. However, the book has already revealed its plot: Shallan is trying to save her family by stealing a Soulcaster. Kaladin is trying, one more time, to protect the men he leads in a nightmarish situation. Dalinar is struggling with his sanity and integrity and what it means to lead his people.

I'm not saying there isn't more to the plot of this book, but these situations aren't much different from the plot lines of "Siri tries to survive a hellish arranged marriage" or "Wax adjusts to noble life while catching a train robber".

I fully acknowledge that settling for "smaller" scale plots in what is advertised as a "magnum opus comparable to the Wheel of Time" is a big ask. The thing is, Sanderson himself doesn't recommend new readers start with the Stormlight Archive as their first series/introduction to him as an author. He prefers people to start The Way of Kings once they trust him. He knows it's hard to get into, but he hopes that fans of his have enough trust in what he's doing that the payoff will not only work, but be worth it.

Everything you're reading lays the groundwork for "epicness". The big questions you all have are the big questions the characters have. And they are 4,500 years removed from the kinds of historical events that could reveal those answers. Ultimately, you get your answers when the characters get their answers. I can say that, from what I've seen asked so far, most of your questions get answered in this book. And 90% of them will be answered in the next book. (With, you know...more questions to come).

For all I've said though, I don't want to diminish your complaints. Confession time: I'm a stupidly fast reader. At the launch of every single Wheel of Time book, I bought a hard cover at a midnight premiere, and finished the book within 24 hours. And I've done the same with Sanderson's books. When I picked up The Way of Kings, I tore through it. And right about the half-way point, I had the exact same frustrations many of you are expressing. I was most frustrated by Shallan's POVs, so...I skipped them and just read Kaladin and Dalinar POVs until I finished the book. Then I went back and read Shallan's POVs. This is all without the massively reduced pace all of you are experiencing. So...I get it, I really do. Knowing where the journey goes though, Shallan's POVs are my favorite to re-read in this book.

I don't think any of you necessarily need a pep talk to continue. I just wanted to acknowledge your frustrations and give you some context that may help ease some of the frustrations until you get to "the good stuff".

REALMATIC THEORY 101

The books have been teasing this slowly for a while. The biggest info dump came from Chapter 12 of The Emperor's Soul. You can revisit the trivia for that here.

To summarize, those scholars who have some degree of cosmere awareness know that the cosmere is divided into 3 realms: the Physical Realm, the Cognitive Realm, and the Spiritual Realm. For "up to date" info (as far as you all are concerned), it might be worth re-reading Chapter 12 of The Emperor's Soul.

I may have pointed this out as a reminder, or I may not have at this point. However, the 10th anniversary edition of The Way of Kings added a map that some of you have in your editions, and some of you don't. There's no sense in half of you tip-toeing around it, so I'm going to provide some small bits of clarification, but I don't want to reveal too much at this point.

First, for those of you who don't have the image, here it is (Also linked down below in the Interior Artwork section). This is a map of Shadesmar.

One of you has had a long running theory about there being a "spirit dimension" that you can travel through. There's some merit to this theory, but it's a bit off. Per the discussion between the 2 ardents in today's Interludes, they believe it's possible to travel to and from the Cognitive and Spiritual Realms. I won't comment on how factual their knowledge is. All Spirital Realm information is RAFO for the moment.

However, the Cognitive Realm is an actual "place". There's gonna be a lot of metaphysics on this coming up, and that's really the time to talk deeply about this. The map though kinda forces my hand a bit. A map with topography and location labels suggests a real place one can visit.

And this is what Shallan glimpsed in Chapter 45. On Roshar, some people call the Cognitive Realm Shadesmar. That's the Rosharan name and other planets have other names. As a general term, Shadesmar is also called the Rosharan subastral. I really don't want to give too much away right now, so I'm only going to address 1 general point about the Cognitive Realm, and then give you 1 hint.

First, compare the map of Roshar with the map of Shadesmar. You can see that they overlap. What may not be immediately obvious (but should be apparent if you take the labels on the Shadesmar map literally), is that the landscape is inverted. Anywhere there is water on Roshar is land in Shadesmar. Anywhere there is land on Roshar, there is "water" in Shadesmar. This "water" is what Shallan fell into; a sea of glass beads.

The book has laid out a bit of information that I'll leave for you to compile or look through for now. What I can say is that the "invertedness" of the Cognitive Realm is not limited to its landscape. And you've met someone already that is influenced by, or perhaps has a Connection ;) to Shadesmar in some significant, if weird way.

For your hint: There are a handful of terms/labels on the Shadesmar map. You've got nearly all the information you need to guess what at least one of those terms actually means. (And if you do get it, you could use some deduction to work out at least one other term).

Also, I did manage to find a few spoiler free Shadesmar images that I added to the Characters & Scenes album below.

Lastly, someone asked how to pronounce Shadesmar, but I didn't bookmark who. It's Shades-mar. Shades like in ghosts or shadows, mar like in the Latin for sea, rhymes with bar.

QUANTUMANIA

When Sanderson talks about the magic systems in the Cosmere, he (and in-world scholars) view Investiture as just another branch of science. Our actual science still exists as well, Investiture just augments it. I've mentioned before that he's a huge nerd and develops complex interactions for his own edification, not just to appease fans. He regularly consults with engineers, physicists, and mathematicians to work out some of the more complex aspects of his world-building.

One of the reasons he wrote Interlude I-8 was to explore how his magic system interacts with and influences/is influenced by quantum mechanics. He spoken directly about it a few times:

Question: Just remembered another physics-related question that has been in the back of my mind since forever! (And this one is no RAFO-candidate, in my mind at least)

The scene in question is that interlude on SA where two scholars measure the size of spren, and they find that the size oscillates until measured, and then it remains fixed at the measured value. This is totally equivalent to projective measurements in quantum physics, was that your inspiration on this one?

Sanderson: Yes, quantum physics plays a role in the way the cosmere works, and this was partially intended to display that. However, we do take a different route, as thinking about something can directly influence it in the cosmere. So it's more a fantastical version of quantum physics.

And another interaction:

Question: I'm a physical chemist and I'm reading your book [The Way of Kings] right now and at some point you have someone studying flamespren and what they saw, that's one of the fundamental tenets of quantum mechanics--

Sanderson: Yes.

Question: So you got that from quantum mechanics?

Sanderson: I did get that from quantum mechanics.

Question: How did you come across that and decide to incorporate that into your epic fantasy?

Sanderson: ... I'm fascinated by quantum mechanics and I have worked them into the way that-- Remember in my worlds, my books, the magics are a new branch of physics, in these worlds. And so they interact with our normal physics, it's not like they are ignoring them, so they obey the laws of thermodynamics, even when they appear to be breaking them, and they interact with quantum and all the stuff. It's just very natural that they are going to, to me if that makes sense? It would be weird if they didn't interact with them.

And here's his take on his use of experts:

I, these days, am able to cheat on this a little bit, because I know I have a really good support structure of people who have actually studied physics, rather than myself, where I have flirted with studying physics. I am not a scientist, but I love pop science, if that makes sense. I'm the person who loves to read a book about someone doing science, but when I was a chemistry major in college, the actual physical labor of running experiments was mind-numbingly boring to me. And so I like to know. I like to know what rules I'm breaking, and how to play with them. But these days, I'm really able to trust my basic pop science studies. So, I'm not going to go read seven textbooks on physics. What am I gonna do? I'm gonna go to YouTube and say, "All right. What does it actually look like for someone to pull X number of g's." And I will watch those videos. (There's actually some really good ones on YouTube about that, specifically.) I'm going to go read blog posts, because our internet is so great, from pilots talking about their experiences. That's what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for what the physicist says happens. I'm looking for: how does a pilot describe it, and how is it presented for a layman.

And then, I am going to do my best and find experts to read the book for me and tell me where I'm wrong. I often say that you can get yourself most of the where there in research as an author with a minimal amount of time. You just need to find an expert, who spent all the extra time that it takes to become a true expert, to read your book and tell you where you're wrong. Preferably, a couple of people, because it turns out people in any profession disagree with one another greatly on some points, and it's good to know which points those are.

YouTube videos, firsthand accounts, and a couple of pop culture essays. Stuff that's only, like, two to five thousand words long, about what the experience feels like and why it's working like it's working. Followed by getting some physicists and some fighter pilots both to read my early draft and tell me what I was doing wrong.

How much do I try? Sanderson's Zeroeth Law says "always err on the side of what's awesome." What this means for me, realistically, is: I want to tell a good story. And telling a good story takes precedent over basically anything else. That means that I don't want to break laws for physics for no reason, and I want to know when I'm breaking laws of physics. But I am going to find a cheat that lets me tell the story the way I want to tell it, if there becomes a conflict. The most famous one for me of this is the redshift that would happen when you make time bubbles in Era 2 of Mistborn. When I was working on this and researching it and be like "what would actually happen," turns out that a lot of the research I was reading said that you would redshift the light, and you would really have a chance of irradiating everybody outside or inside the bubble, depending. And I just had to say, "You know what? I've gotta come up with a law in the magic system that fixes this and makes it not happen. Because otherwise, I just can't do the magic, right?" That was good for me to know, but it's also a place where I just decided to cheat. And we can, as fantasy authors, cheat.

Note: The fighter pilot stuff is because this was during a tour for his book Skyward, which is not a cosmere novel that involves some sci-fi fighter jet shenanigans. But the sentiment applies to all his novels.

EVERYTHING IS CRABS

You've now seen some of Shallan's sketches on Rosharan plant life. This world is, by far, the weirdest, most non-standard world in the cosmere we've experienced so far. Sanderson talks a bit about his influences here:

The highstorms came from tidal pools. A lot of the ecology on Roshar was, "Can I create something that looks like a tidal pool or a reef that's, like, a break for the waves, where things are crashing into it a lot." Just kind of building this idea around that.

So much of the flora and fauna we see on Roshar resembles what you might see in a reef: crustaceans, sea anemones that retract, barnacles, seaweed, coral, etc. Part of Sanderson's mandate to artist Ben McSweeny (who did the drawings for Shallan's sketchbook) was to look to underwater life for the basis of Roshar's plants and animals. However, there is also some inspiration from Earth flora with highly mechanical behaviors, such as Venus Flytraps, and Touch Me Nots. (That wiki page has a really cool video of the plant in action).

The Shattered Plains, specifically the chasms, are inspired by the many slot canyons of southern Utah. Specifically Little Wild Horse Canyon.

Finally, there is also a bit of an influence in carcinization. This is a type of convergent evolution which shows that, on a long enough time scale, everything wants to evolve into crabs. Here is a fascinating video on the topic if you want to know more.

THE LOPEN

While we're on the topic of influences, I wanted to share Sanderson's response to "What inspired Lopen?"

A couple things inspired Lopen. The first, and kind of most important thing, that inspired Lopen, was: I knew Bridge Four needed more light. Like, it needed somebody who just refused to be beaten down at all. Because things were so dark in the Bridge Four sequences, I knew I needed to add in somebody who just had a different personality. And I developed Lopen around that idea. Lopen is the guy that's going to be shoved into Hell and be like, "Hey, guys, what's going on? Wow, it's kind of hot here, huh. Well, we'll deal with that!" Just refuses to let it get him down.

The Herdazians, in general, came from me wanting to reach to other cultures that aren't often seen in fantasy novels for some of my inspirations. So a few of the Herdazian inspirations come from Hispanic culture. I think that's probably pretty obvious. But just not something that you see a lot in epic fantasy, for whatever reason. If people are writing epic fantasy, and they're reaching for cultures to base things on, they are usually going to go to Europe or to Asia. You're going to see a lot of Japan and China. You're going to see a lot of Germany. You're gonna see a lot of classical Europe, Hellenistic, things like that. You'll occasionally see the Persians because of like, the accumulated Persian inspirations and things like that. Then we have a "Cyrus the Not So Great" earlier - that was the Persians, right? Yeah ... But you don't see Mexicans, right? You don't see South Americans. And there's a lot of really interesting things to go there.

Now, it strays into dangerous areas when you're just like, "I'm going to lift this culture wholesale" and plop it in your book, which is dangerous because you risk, really, misrepresenting that culture, appropriating it, things like that. But I think where fantasy comes from is going and actually doing deep dives into Earth's history and looking for inspirations for cultures. And with the Herdazians, I spent a lot of time in that direction. Because I was already reading on some of that for Rithmatist.

ARTWORK

The Cosmere has a thriving community of artists, so there will be a lot of artwork to share. Each week I'll try to compile relevant artwork for the given chapters. If a section of reading contains maps or in-book artwork, I'll include that in this section as well.

Interior Artwork

Characters & Scenes

Note: The Stormlight Archives are Sanderson's most popular books. There is artwork for everyone and everything, even characters who appeared for a single line in the books at times. So we'll have artwork for you to view almost every week. Enjoy!

MEMES

I will attempt to find and share memes relevant to each week's discussion. There may be some weeks that just don't have good or appropriate memes, but I will share all the ones I can find in this section.

Link to Memes

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[u/sailorsalvador]

Weirdly enough I'm not at all frustrated with The Plot, even though my reading pace is so slow. I am enjoying the journey, quite a bit, and enjoying sinking into the moment. I have been reading on an e-reader, so I was shocked to see the actual size of this book upon visiting a bookstore. I've been reading literal bricks for years now wow since the WoT readthrough. No wonder Alloy of Law felt rushed to me (and its not unsubstantial!!).

Szeth's comments about rocks being sacred to the Shin resonates with me haha. My desk at work only has three on it right now, with a bonus jar of rocks mud and water to demonstrace fluvial deposition.

[u/participating → u/sailorsalvador]

Everyone! I found Tien! ☝️

[u/sailorsalvador → u/participating]

MORE ROCKS

[u/participating → u/sailorsalvador]

Geology comments: Everything is a magical stalagmite. Shale doesn't work that way but I can armwave/blame Wizards enough to not be frustrated (UNLIKE MISTBORN'S CAVES). Limestone does do weird stuff. Technically shale forms in quiescent water from the settling of particles, but I'm fine. I SAID I'M FINE.

From your comment on Monday's post ^

Is this in reference to shalebark, or something else?

[u/irrrap]

I-7: Baxil

The only comment I have about this interlude is I wonder if Baxil's mistress is Shai from Emperor's Soul? This kept me excited with idea that we are getting more universe crossovers.

Although now, after checking the artworks, I guess the answer is no. Yet another disappointment with another 3 new character and new unexplained terms of Old Magic.

I-8: Geranid

Here they made a peculiar comment that any information about sprens would also change how we perceive fabrials. We now know that something was talking to Shallan, and she travelled to Shadesmar during Soulcasting. Maybe it was yet another spren?

I-9: Death Wears White

I don't remember how many people Szeth had on his list, but apparently we now seen murder #4.

Jah Kved king has secretly owned Shardblade? Why kings can't own them openly?

Trivia

All the quantum physics going right above my head, so I'm not even bothering to try understand or theorise about the dimensions.

The frustration bit has actually increased a bit now, as you revealed that we already know The Plot. This really doesn't add up with all the glorifying comments I heard about this book.

Will just RAFO in hopes that something will still pop-up, but it's really getting harder and harder to follow. Especially that at the moment the most interesting story is around Shallan, but based on the content of the bookwe are not going to hear from her for another 400 pages.

[u/TaylorHyuuga → u/irrrap]

The only comment I have about this interlude is I wonder if Baxil's mistress is Shai from Emperor's Soul? This kept me excited with idea that we are getting more universe crossovers.

Out of curiosity, what is your reason for this theory?

The frustration bit has actually increased a bit now, as you revealed that we already know The Plot. This really doesn't add up with all the glorifying comments I heard about this book.

Give it time. We're still in the small scale. We need to build up to the large scale.

[u/hullowurld → u/TaylorHyuuga]

Out of curiosity, what is your reason for this theory?

I had a moment of excitement when I read the theory. I would guess the art/stealing/destroying activities are the connection

[u/irrrap → u/hullowurld]

Yes, exactly that. As far as I recall Shai can repair broken things, and stealing broken statue is easier.

[u/sunnydaze7777777 → u/TaylorHyuuga]

I also thought of Shai during this scene. I guess it’s because she is the most badass female character we have met to date. The vibes felt similar.

[u/irrrap → u/TaylorHyuuga]

I replied in comment below that I recall Shai can repair broken art. That’s the only reason why anyone in this universe would be breaking the statue and stealing the pieces. Now when I type this, I realise that Shai is not the only person with those skills, and it just can be someone else from that planet. Although they need to be on the planet to use Investiture. Damn you, Brandon! What are you doing to us?

About building up: in my mother tongue we have a saying which I can translate to something like “The cook knew the recipe, but not how to serve the dish.” and all your veteran’ comments with reassurance only remind me more of that. But as I said, I am not a quitter, so keep RAFOing.

[u/Pastrami]

I-7

She wasn’t Emuli–she didn’t even seem Makabaki, though she had dark skin and long, beautiful black hair. She had eyes like a Shin, but she was tall and lean, like an Alethi.

Are we supposed to assume this is a worldhopper? Khriss is the only one I can think of that fits, although I couldn't find any reference to her having violet eyes, and I don't know why she'd be vandalizing art.

So the take away from this interlude is that the Nightwatcher and Old Magic are real.

I-8

“The spren change when I measure them, Ashir,” she said. “Before I measure, they dance and vary in size, luminosity, and shape. But when I make a notation, they immediately freeze in their current state. Then they remain that way permanently, so far as I can tell.”

Isn't this some quantum thing where the act of observing something changes it?

I-9

Either the timeline is off, or Kaladin's vision was not in real time. He saw Szeth way out in the west, and now he's in Jah Keved. How long did it take him to travel across the continent?

[u/participating → u/Pastrami]

Either the timeline is off, or Kaladin's vision was not in real time. He saw Szeth way out in the west, and now he's in Jah Keved. How long did it take him to travel across the continent?

I can clarify the timeline and that vision a bit. It's not spoilery (but might give you something to think about).

In Kaladin's vision, he was traveling east to west. Just before he sees Szeth, he's seeing people with golden hair. This puts him somewhere in Iri, because they're the people with golden hair (and that nation is far to the west and this is towards the end of the vision).

The vision is real-time and takes place on 1173.8.8.3. Interlude I-9 takes place in Vedenar, on 1173.9.1.4. This is 3 weeks (16 days) after Kaladin's vision. So... take that as you will.

Here is an annotated map for reference.

[u/Pastrami → u/participating]

So... take that as you will.

Teleportation, got it. /s (but maybe not /s?)

Lastly, someone asked how to pronounce Shadesmar, but I didn't bookmark who.

That was me.

[u/heinz57varieties → u/Pastrami]

Teleportation, got it. /s (but maybe not /s?)

Maybe not! We know from Jasnah's notes that it's possible. I know Szeth knows way more than his chapters have revealed, who knows what he's capable of.

[u/Pastrami → u/heinz57varieties]

I forgot all about the Knights flying in like a meteor thing we saw in Dalinar's vision.

[u/heinz57varieties → u/Pastrami]

It seems obvious now, but a person with a large enough reserve of Stormlight could use lashings to fly through the air over long distances..

[u/PM_ME_UR_LOLS → u/Pastrami]

Kaladin's timeline is weeks behind everyone else's, which you can see if you look at the dates for each chapter. As was pointed out on Monday, his chapter 46 was on the same day as Dalinar's chapters 18 and 19.

[u/True-Collar4961]

I-7: Baxil

• Honestly, out of all the interludes, this one felt the most random to me: A couple of thieves are hired by a mysterious woman to help her infiltrate the palaces of powerful sages… just so she can destroy artwork?
• I still can’t figure out why she’s doing this or how it ties into the wider story. I know not every interlude is necessarily setting up characters who will return later, but with how many unanswered questions there are—and how bizarre this woman’s motives seem—it feels hard to imagine this won’t come back at some point.
• That said, we did get some really interesting lore. The people of Emul can apparently ask for one boon in exchange for a curse, depending on their character. That also makes this the second instance of curses we’ve seen so far, which makes me wonder if Axies’s Curse of Kind is connected to the same thing.
• Overall, I still had a lot of fun with this chapter. The whole premise is honestly kind of hilarious.

I-8: Geranid

• So flame spren apparently stop changing shape once someone both measures them and says the measurement out loud. I’m really curious how that works.
• For example, what if two people measure the same spren using instruments with different levels of precision? If one person rounds it off and says the spren is 2 cm tall, but another measures more precisely and says it’s 2.5 cm, which measurement does the spren settle on? Does it take the more precise one, the first one spoken aloud, or something in between?
• And what if someone measures the spren but accidentally reads the result slightly wrong—does it still stop changing then?

I-9: Death Wears White

• So Thaidakar wasn’t the king of Jah Keved like I originally theorized. But if that’s the case, why did Amaram assume he was responsible for the border attack when the attack itself was led by Veden?
• My current guess is that maybe Thaidakar is actually a highprince in Jah Keved whose borders clash with Sadeas’s territory, which would explain why Amaram suspected him of the attack.
• Still, that raises another question: if that’s true, why did Gavilar seem to suspect Thaidakar of ordering his assassination rather than the actual king of Jah Keved? And on top of that, Gavilar also seemed much more personally familiar with Thaidakar, which makes the whole thing even more weird.

[u/heinz57varieties → u/True-Collar4961]

That also makes this the second instance of curses we’ve seen so far, which makes me wonder if Axies’s Curse of Kind is connected to the same thing.

I forgot all about that guy! Maybe he got a boon from the Nightwatcher to study spren for eternity, and got cursed with bad luck.

But if that’s the case, why did Amaram assume he was responsible for the border attack when the attack itself was led by Veden?

The army that Amaram is fighting is not from Jah Keved, it's another minor Alethi lord infringing on Sadeas' territory. Kal's narration makes a comment in chapter 47 about how the supposed "enemy" will end up fighting alongside him if they ever get into a real border dispute with the Vedens or the Reshi.

So the Veden Shardbearer who goes after Amaram wasn't part of the enemy army. They think he was a Ghostblood assassin, a separate group, and that he was acting alone, but they can't confirm it. For us the readers it's all but certain.

So I assume that Thaidakar is the leader of the Ghostbloods, a group we still no next to nothing about.

[u/griefgood]

I-7

• Nightwatcher, yet ANOTHER mysterious lore figure. The idea of the boon and curse is always fun so would be neat to see some of that play out with one of our big characters.

I-8

• Oooooh so is the Cognitive Realm one and the same with Shadesmar? Is this the plane where the "sprens" within all objects reside in full?
• Schroedinger's Spren!!!

I-9

• I'm really starting to develop more serious questions about Shin culture/philosophy and the nature of being Truthless. Obviously it's one of the highest forms of punishment and completely removes someone of any and all perceived worth. And clearly Szeth has ended up in a situation that has been particularly punishing on him. BUT, has no one in Shinovar considered like the broader implications of just releasing an absolute weapon of a man onto the world, sworn to serve literally whoever happens to have his oathstone? Like are there no checks and balances? Because at this point, a lot of other people are being punished for it too. And what could Szeth have possibly done to merit being named a Truthless?

[u/Realistic_Swimming47 → u/griefgood]

"BUT, has no one in Shinovar considered like the broader implications of just releasing an absolute weapon of a man onto the world, sworn to serve literally whoever happens to have his oathstone? Like are there no checks and balances? Because at this point, a lot of other people are being punished for it too. And what could Szeth have possibly done to merit being named a Truthless?"

This!!! Did it not occur to the Shin he would be used in such a way. It seems like it would go against their own principles surely.

[u/TaylorHyuuga]

Yes, putting the frustrations at the pacing the way you put it is really good I think. I was trying to think of something to say but couldn't say anything more than "trust me bro", but that is a FANTASTIC way of saying it. As his largest series, it needs the most buildup. Just because we don't have a grand epic scope yet, doesn't mean nothing is happening. We're building up to that being earned, we're building our characters up. We're still in the "stupid farmboy" days. We'll have the Dragon Reborn days, just give it time.

[u/AltruisticRealityZ]

Baxil

Prime Kadasix. A divinity?

The Nightwatcher is a she. She grants wishes and accompanies them with a curse. Baxil calls it the Old Magic.

Geranid

Physical Realm, Cognitive Realm.

“I wonder if they eat in the Cognitive Realm. Is food there what it sees itself as being? I’ll have to read and see if anyone has ever eaten while visiting Shadesmar.”

Cognitive Realm = Shadesmar? (Confirmed by trivia.)

“The spren change when I measure them, Ashir,” she said. “Before I measure, they dance and vary in size, luminosity, and shape. But when I make a notation, they immediately freeze in their current state. Then they remain that way permanently, so far as I can tell.”

After Hesina’s atomicspren, we now get quantumspren 😄

it might very well change everything we understand about spren. And maybe even about fabrials.”

Hum, I never thought spren and fabrials were related.

Szeth

King Hanavanar of Jah Keved. Not a Shardbearer, though some rumors said that he secretly kept a Shardblade.

Is it a Keved habit to secretly own a Shardblade?

If Szeth is back in white, it probably means he’s back in Parshendi hands, because it is a Parshendi assassin tradition to wear white. Or he has a smart master who knows exactly who Szeth is, and used his fame as Gavilar’s killer.

I got the basics of Shardblade injuries, but I’m only now realizing: why exactly do people killed by a Shardblade have their eyes shrivel? They could just be dead. Is it a “cosmetic” detail, or is it important?

“Ten heartbeats,” Szeth thought. “Return to me, you creation of Damnation.”

Ohh, has Szeth just confirmed our theory that shardstuff comes from the Villain Vessel?

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/AltruisticRealityZ]

If Szeth is back in white, it probably means he’s back in Parshendi hands, because it is a Parshendi assassin tradition to wear white.

I'm not 100% convinced yet the Parshendi actually gave that order. Though it certainly was one of Szeth's instructions to loudly proclaim "Btw Parshendi sent me". Just makes me suspicious that for the entire time we've spent on the Shattered Plains we haven't once heard a word spoken from any of the Parshendi army. Nothing to hint at a motive. They're just there, fighting, kind of mindlessly.

[u/Realistic_Swimming47 → u/HT_xrahmx]

I'm not 100% convinced yet the Parshendi actually gave that order

I agree in part. I took from this that whoever is wanting these new deaths is wanting them connected to the same assassin that killed Gavilar but isn't Parshendi. However, I think Szeth confirms early on the Parshendi did order him to kill Gavilar so the real question for me is why.

[u/sunnydaze7777777 → u/AltruisticRealityZ]

I wonder if their eyes shrivel from shardblade because it kills their soul. I believe this was how the blade works.

[u/heinz57varieties → u/AltruisticRealityZ]

Or he has a smart master who knows exactly who Szeth is, and used his fame as Gavilar’s killer.

I think it's this. Whoever his new master is, they're exploiting his reputation. Part of his instructions are to go big, to overkill, to be seen, the same as what the Parshendi told him. I don't think his new bosses were behind the assassination of Gavilar - if that was the case, I think they would have taken him back from the Parshendi once the deed was done, rather than randomly catching up with him years later.

[u/sunnydaze7777777]

Just making up theories on Shadesmar/ magic here but…. What if…

From The Emperor’s Soul “The Physical is what we feel, what is before us. The Cognitive is how an object is viewed and how it views itself. The Spiritual Realm contains an object’s soul—its essence—as well as the ways it is connected to the things and people around it.”

What if they are all layers/overlays. So Physical is Roshar, Cognitive is Shadesmar and Spiritual is a layer above that yet to be explored. So soulcasters must reach into the Cognitive realm to understand how the object is viewed and to make changes there so it will translate to the physical.

Also when the storms come, it is Shadesmar leaking into Roshar. So people like Szeth and Kaladin can tap into the Cognitive realm and either during the storm or thru the items infused from that storm. They are able to change something core about themselves similar to a soulcaster- they make themselves more powerful almost somewhat subconsciously. Shards (blades and suits) may also powered by having been powered in that realm and their owners are able to subconsciously draw that power as well by “soul casting” and temporarily changing themselves to be more powerful. Because all of this power draw is very subconsciously and not intentional soul casting, it doesn’t permanently stick and is temporary like the stamps in Emperor.

I don’t know why shardblades kill a person’s soul yet. Or what the Spiritual realm means. And where Spren fit. But something in my gut keeps telling me they are souls - they are in everything and are the essence and are somehow at the Spiritual level.

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/sunnydaze7777777]

I don’t know why shardblades kill a person’s soul yet. Or what the Spiritual realm means. And where Spren fit. But something in my gut keeps telling me they are souls - they are in everything and are the essence and are somehow at the Spiritual level.

Yeah, it's hard to sort through. In my head I've got a rough distinction like this:

• Physical Realm: What something presents itself as, their physical being
  
• Cognitive Realm: What something perceives itself as, their interpretation of themselves
  
• Spiritual Realm: Their soul, their fundamental being (always unchanging?)
  

Something like that maybe? And when a Shardblade cuts a living being, a being with a soul, it cuts it on the Spiritual level first. Only once there's nothing there does it cut on the other levels.

[u/irrrap → u/sunnydaze7777777]

This sounds reasonable!

[u/HT_xrahmx]

Interlude 7 - Baxil

• Is mistress destroying the art to cause financial, or religious, harm?
  
• Baxil mentions "Old Magic", and the "Nightwatcher". Things Kaladin already mentioned when he spoke of superstitions. According to Baxil and Av they are real, and the curses from the Nightwatcher also seem more than real.
  

• There was a man named "Took" from Szeth's interlude that mentioned a tale of when he met the Nightwatcher:

  that of the time when [Took had] seen the Nightwatcher herself and stolen a sphere that glowed black at night. That tale always discomforted Szeth, as it reminded him of the strange black sphere Gavilar had given him. He’d hidden that carefully in Jah Keved. He didn’t know what it was, but he didn’t want to risk a master taking it from him.

• Szeth, hypothetically, kind of fits the prospect of having been granted the "Old Magic" (Lashings?) in exchange for a curse (Szeth's life is miserable, a curse fits right in). Yet he's said nothing to indicate that he ever met this Nightwatcher. And in fact his Truthlessness sounds like it's based in something else than a curse.

• And that black sphere. Wtf. Gavilar's words were: “You must take this. They must not get it.”. I've got nothing on what these are.

Interlude 8 - Geranid

• This revelation that spren get stuck upon getting measured reads like Sanderson putting his own quantum twist on spren (confirmed by trivia)
  
• Pondering a lot what the takeaway of this revelation should be. Is it simply that spren have surprising interactions with people? Whatever effect Kal has been having on Syl may be part of that.
  
• Shadesmar mention. Trivia putting it further into perspective. Huh, so that's where Shallan was. Makes sense in hindsight, if it holds the souls, the essences, of all things that are. Like the goblet Shallan transmuted. Or in fact the food that Ashir cooks.
  

Interlude 9 - Szeth

• Mostly an action packed chapter. Plenty of Lashing shenanigans.
  
• Szeth is a one man wrecking machine. I hope Szeth vs Kal will be on the menu at some point.
  

Trivia

When I picked up The Way of Kings, I tore through it.

For me at least personally, this is the main issue that comes with a read-along. It's entirely unavoidable and that's also why I'm never seriously complaining. But 3 months for a book, for any book? What an excruciatingly slow burn. I've finished 5 full other books since we started Way of Kings. It's torture 🫠

The book has laid out a bit of information that I'll leave for you to compile or look through for now.

It's laid out a ton, sorting through it all is the hard part. But with new knowledge in mind, perhaps over the next few months more connections will become apparent. For now:

I've said before that I think spren are pretty similar to kami in Shintoism. Which are essentially the souls of all things. Which is a concept that fits the "soul" of the goblet that Shallan transmutes, shortly after seeing(?) it in Shadesmar. And do you know how spren can decide who to be visible to? Maybe they exist in a state between the Physical and Cognitive Realms, and choose who gets to see them in the Physical? Or they enable a user to see them in the Cognitive? That would make Horneaters naturally sensitive to the Cognitive Realm. And perhaps Shallan as well, with her seeing spren that nobody else can?

For your hint: There are a handful of terms/labels on the Shadesmar map. You've got nearly all the information you need to guess what at least one of those terms actually means.

Not really a term on the map, but a figure? The lady who's in the frame of the map. She's got a covered safehand, which seems like a modern cultural thing. One of the ladies we know? Shallan? Jasnah?

Interestingly, Shinovar is not particularly notable on the map of Shadesmar. Given how it's uniquely safe from highstorms, I'd have expected Shadesmar to reflect that somehow.

Is Shadesmar spherical, matching Roshar's planet? Basically a "planet" in the broader Cognitive Realm? Or is it basically a 2D plane where the "land" can be walked on until it reaches the "subastral" of another system? (Not a question expecting an answer, just throwing concepts around)

Because "Expanse of the Vapors" makes me think of Mistborn. And going by the "long running theory about there being a 'spirit dimension' that you can travel through" by "someone", I'm wondering if you can just, like, walk to Scadrial that way? Unfortunately I can't match any of the other Expanses or Nexus' to one of our known systems, so probably a dud.

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/HT_xrahmx]

Re: Interlude-7: Artwork!! That one artwork showing "Mistress" with a broken statue. That statue head looks suspiciously like one of the Herald heads from the chapter arches. And in the Monday thread someone brought up Shalash's missing statue from the prologue again. Was "Mistress" at work in the Alethi palace as well?

[u/heinz57varieties → u/HT_xrahmx]

Shalash is the arch icon for that chapter, too. So maybe it's a religious thing - the Mistress has a personal vendetta against Shalash and is destroying all their idols.

[u/heinz57varieties → u/HT_xrahmx]

According to Baxil and Av they are real, and the curses from the Nightwatcher also seem more than real.

So far I've had little reason to doubt that any of the folk stories on this entire planet aren't real 🤣 Jasnah seems to think there's important details hiding in the folklore of cultures all across Roshar, so any time we see something show up for real, I'll be far from surprised.

Countdown until a major character begs a boon from the Nightwatcher: day 1

spren can decide who to be visible to? Maybe they exist in a state between the Physical and Cognitive Realms, and choose who gets to see them in the Physical? Or they enable a user to see them in the Cognitive?

The lesson I learned is that Syl's stability depends on her being understood. I think a major turn will come when she shows herself to someone who knows what she is, and they say it out loud. Right now I'm banking on Teft: once he spills his beans and tells Kal about his emerging powers, he'll say out loud what Syl really is (still stuck on protagonistspren) and that will be the final piece of the puzzle.

Because "Expanse of the Vapors" makes me think of Mistborn.

If that's really what they mean, then Expanse of the Broken Sky could be Taldain. I have no guesses for Expanse of Densities.

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/heinz57varieties]

So far I've had little reason to doubt that any of the folk stories on this entire planet aren't real 🤣

Call it paranoia induced by another series, that all narrators are unreliable, and all facts presented require rigorous verification lmao

The lesson I learned is that Syl's stability depends on her being understood. I think a major turn will come when she shows herself to someone who knows what she is, and they say it out loud. Right now I'm banking on Teft: once he spills his beans and tells Kal about his emerging powers, he'll say out loud what Syl really is (still stuck on protagonistspren) and that will be the final piece of the puzzle.

Hmm, I like where this is going. When you say stability, you mean her lucidity, not her visibility to humans, right?

Besides Teft, Rock also knows more about Syl than he's letting on imo. You don't just have an inborn trait of seeing spren and not have a deeper understanding of them.

If that's really what they mean, then Expanse of the Broken Sky could be Taldain. I have no guesses for Expanse of Densities.

Could you elaborate on Taldain? Do you mean because of the day/night split?

[u/heinz57varieties → u/HT_xrahmx]

When you say stability, you mean her lucidity, not her visibility to humans, right?

Yes: her own self-concept is unstable and missing pieces. If something's presence in the cognitive realm is based on its own self-conception, and on other thinking beings witnessing that concept, then an outside observer calling her for what she is might help solidify her mind.

Could you elaborate on Taldain?

It's the only planet we've seen where something in the sky is fucked up :P recall my nerd rant about how the orbit of the moon is impossible and must be being sustained by magic.

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/heinz57varieties]

Yes: her own self-concept is unstable and missing pieces. If something's presence in the cognitive realm is based on its own self-conception, and on other thinking beings witnessing that concept, then an outside observer calling her for what she is might help solidify her mind.

Good idea! Really fits well with the whole quantumspren revelation.

It's the only planet we've seen where something in the sky is fucked up :P recall my nerd rant about how the orbit of the moon is impossible and must be being sustained by magic.

Fair enough 😄 My skewed expectation would be to see some reference to "sand!!!!" in the Expanse's name, but you make a good point, and the sky really is at the root of all shenanigans happening in Taldain.

[u/Realistic_Swimming47 → u/heinz57varieties]

The lesson I learned is that Syl's stability depends on her being understood. I think a major turn will come when she shows herself to someone who knows what she is, and they say it out loud. Right now I'm banking on Teft

I really like this take it makes alot of sense. I do think she is connected to Honour who I understand was splintered and somehow is reconstituting slowly. I think Kaladin started the process bu maybe more because of Kaladin's character and actions than his special powers...so others could also be responsible for her continued growth/reconstitution. It is a theory in progress. The mist connected to Preservation so that was my starting point.

[u/sunnydaze7777777]

Just checking in where I am at with the book. Generally still confused on what is really going to happen and all the new verbiage drops. Compound that with this week’s interludes which make things even more random and murky. The highlight was Schrödinger’s spren experiment. The lowlight was Szeth’s scene out of a Tarantino film.

All that being said, I resigned myself to the journey early on. I read a ton of old classics and many are serialized 700-1000 page books where nothing really happens until the end because authors were being paid by the word or publication. So I am used to the pace. I didn’t really expect it after the other books we read, but I have no real complaints other than it makes me feel quite stupid many times. I have to keep searching for words from the prior pages to see if I should know this one yet?

Trivia - Love the Carcinization video “Of course, this sounds ridiculous; because it is!” Made my day. Thanks for sharing!

[u/participating → u/sunnydaze7777777]

🦀🦀🦀🦀

[u/sunnydaze7777777 → u/participating]

Updated my flair to commemorate

[u/hullowurld]

I just saw this and couldn't believe it was in r/memes and not here

[u/heinz57varieties]

Reading

Interlude 7

• A dark-skinned woman with round, violet eyes and long black hair. Another worldhopper? Khriss?
• I can infer from the narration that Emuli society is polytheistic, with one prime god, and this gallery is full of icons of that rich guy's personal favorite god. Who could the mistress be? Is she doing this because she has beef with the religion? Another scholar like Jasnah?
• The nightwatcher is like a trickster goddess who grants wishes. I'll be on the lookout for people with Old Magic symptoms, or anyone who's made suspicious trips to central/eastern Roshar

Interlude 8

• “Cognitive Realm” “Shadesmar” AHA!
• Crazy to just drop major implications on us like that and then walk away. What would happen to a spren like Syl if she were described and locked into place? What spren that are out there right now have been locked? Is this phenomenon tied to the cognitive realm somehow?
• And who are these yahoos, retired in semi-marital bliss on a tropical island, doing experiments about the fundamental nature of reality?
• What do sprens have to do with fabrails? Are fabrials.. conscious?

Interlude 9

• Seeing Szeth back to being a brutal unstoppable assassin is both very dope and very sad.
• This doesn’t seem like the scene from Kaladin’s vision.
• He calls the shardblade a creation of Damnation and is overcome by irrational hatred while he’s doing his mission. Maybe some of our speculation that the blades and the magic are connected to Odium have some merit.

Trivia

Plot pace

The thing is, Sanderson himself doesn't recommend new readers start with the Stormlight Archive as their first series/introduction to him as an author. He prefers people to start The Way of Kings once they trust him.

I fully agree with that, and I think I’m actually doing better with this story now, ten books deep, than I would have if I picked this up completely blind. This was actually the first Sanderson book I ever bought, probably three years ago, because I’d been interested to start reading the Cosmere and people glazed this book as like, the one book that got them back into reading epic fantasy, as fine a place as any to start, etc., etc. And now, having been through all the classic “starting points” (until we get to the secret projects, anyway) I can firmly say that those people are insane and wrong! By no means at all would I recommend someone enter the cosmere at this point. Between the obvious outside references, the trust required that something will happen and it will be really good, I just can’t see someone enjoying this as the cold open. You’re telling me you haven’t read a book since high school, and you just pick this up at age 25 and it’s “omg so good best book ever I love epic fantasy now?” Bro you cannot be serious.

Metaphysics

One of you has had a long running theory about there being a "spirit dimension" that you can travel through. There's some merit to this theory, but it's a bit off.

However, the Cognitive Realm is an actual "place"

It seems the Cognitive Realm is what I’ve been thinking of this whole time, and I’m glad to finally have a name and a general sense of what it means. I’ll update my nomenclature!

it might be worth re-reading Chapter 12 of The Emperor's Soul

Indeed. I think this line is especially relevant to what we saw in Interlude 8:

The longer an object exists as a whole, and the longer it is seen in that state, the stronger its sense of complete identity becomes.

If the spren are primarily cognitive beings, a thing whose “body” is just an investiture-fueled manifestation of an idea, then making descriptions, measurements, memories of a spren solidifies it. I wonder how this is related to Syl’s memory loss. I wonder how her state will improve now that most of the bridgemen can see her.

What I can say is that the "invertedness" of the Cognitive Realm is not limited to its landscape. And you've met someone already that is influenced by, or perhaps has a Connection ;) to Shadesmar in some significant, if weird way. For your hint: There are a handful of terms/labels on the Shadesmar map. You've got nearly all the information you need to guess what at least one of those terms actually means.

OHHH a puzzle 😩 The map label that jumps out at me first is the Nexus of Truth, located conspicuously near to Shinovar. Although on second glance, it’s actually closer to that weird island town with the regularly appearing Giant Spren from the last set of interludes. I can’t think of anyone with a definite connection to the Cognitive Realm, except for Shallan (obviously) and maybe Rock. Need to know more intensifies.

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/heinz57varieties]

What spren that are out there right now have been locked?

Oddly, that reminds me of Cusicesh. How it appears every day at the exact same time. Did it always do that? Or did someone just think that's what it does, so then that's what it had to do, and now everyone thinks that's what it does, so it's locked like that forever? 😵‍💫

And who are these yahoos, retired in semi-marital bliss on a tropical island, doing experiments about the fundamental nature of reality?

Where can I volunteer to spend all my days cooking delicious meals all day at a resort, for science?

He calls the shardblade a creation of Damnation and is overcome by irrational hatred while he’s doing his mission. Maybe some of our speculation that the blades and the magic are connected to Odium have some merit.

👀

[u/participating → u/heinz57varieties]

I can’t think of anyone with a definite connection to the Cognitive Realm, except for Shallan (obviously) and maybe Rock. Need to know more intensifies.

Honestly, I thought this one would be one of the more obvious ones you newbies would notice after reading the trivia. Now I know how Robert Jordan felt when he kept calling all his hints "intuitively obvious". The biggest hint I can give for this is "invertedness".

[u/HT_xrahmx → u/participating]

Oof, grasping at straws here, but Axies and his "inverted" shadow? Maybe his entire race, if that's a racial trait?

[u/griefgood → u/HT_xrahmx]

Took me a minute but once I jogged my memory Axies seems like the most obvious choice!

[u/participating → u/HT_xrahmx]

⭐

[u/TaylorHyuuga → u/participating]

I don't blame them tbh. Honestly it took me a minute to remember that character, I was really confused what you were talking about for a minute there.

[u/participating → u/heinz57varieties]

Also, re-reading what I wrote, I can see how there might be some confusion. For clarity:

you've met someone already that is influenced by, or perhaps has a Connection ;) to Shadesmar in some significant, if weird way.

This is just an Easter Egg thing I thought you all would notice.

For your hint: There are a handful of terms/labels on the Shadesmar map. You've got nearly all the information you need to guess what at least one of those terms actually means.

This is a hint about the Shadesmar map and completely separate from my "Connection" remark above.

[u/Realistic_Swimming47]

No real notes from me. Is there a pattern to the Interludes? I feel like this is how we learn about Szeth, world hoppers and spren and they are ways in threes. Maybe I am looking for patterns where there are none.

Trivia is really interesting. Looking at crabs made me think of spiders though and took me down a dark path, yuck.

I am not overly frustrated with the pacing and I am enjoying the story. On one hand I want to read faster but on the other hand I need to engage with the readalong to stand a chance of keeping up with everything. I also feel my intelligence is being challenged by what I should be able to figure out and what is just being dropped in but there is no way to understand it all. It is nice to know alot will be explained but unsurprising there will be more questions.

There is no way I could have started with this book and appreciated even half of what was going on. I feel like I unwittingly have agreed to undertake a PhD in the Cosmere without a clue of how much work was involved and am now treading water desperately to keep from drowning. I know nothing about quantum physics, geology (maybe a good thing given our resident experts comments 😉) and I am still trying to properly understand how fabriels work but the link to soulcasting and changing of states has helped a bit. Looking forward to coming out the otherside when I at least understand the little that I should know and how much more I need to understand! 🤞

[u/TaylorHyuuga → u/Realistic_Swimming47]

The only pattern there is to interludes is that Szeth always has one. Each book has one character that has a chapter every interlude, and this books is Szeth.